My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[Ufopolitics]

Hey Codeboundfuture...

Hi Anoop,
Yes there are issues with that design and I cannot say if it provides advantages over a symmetrical motor setup but as an asymmetrical motor one issue that I know UFOPolitics has mentioned is that the common connection means that each coil is always 'half way on' or charged.

One advantage to these asymmetrical motors we are working on building is the rapid change in resistance as it disconnects from the brushes and in this setup each coil gets the opportunity to free-wheel or idle (rotate without being energized by you're source). When there is a common connection the idle time interaction gets sent into every pole of your rotor at all 360 degrees of your armatures rotation each and every time a coil discharges (disconnects from your source).

A simple analogy is like a gasoline engine, each cylinder is isolated and has separated intake and exhaust, so that each cylinder gets it's own shot of fuel, and when that cylinder has used up the fuel it is allowed to discharge through a dedicated exhaust port to make room for fresh fuel as well as removing any remaining parasitic pressure which would take away from the machines capabilities. With asymmetric electrodynamic machines when you have a common ground you are introducing restrictions to the intake/outtake because each cylinder/coil is now dealing with the fuel and exhaust of every cylinder/coil no matter where the coil is at in its individual cycle.

matt

Hello My Friend,

Well after reading your explanation...I feel I can quit anytime...You guys will take over easy!!...

I am very glad You got it so right...and it really makes me feel very good...


Warm regards friend


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Welcome David!!

I would like to confirm this is far the best OU I've incountered ever!
And a 750W :O CRAZY!!!!

David!!


Welcome to our Journey to Free Energy!


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Why Not 13?

BTW: I bougt a small dynamotor and it seems to be completely not usable: 13 poles? and very different count of collector sections and diameter as well.

Hello Dear John,

What is wrong with number 13?...bad luck?...Friday the 13th?...

What about a P-13?...Very 'Unique" Sir...

We will do it later on (after you are done with the measurements and the great pdf work.

Warm Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Have You ever seen Ed Gray's?

Not initially , no.
I have a lot of ideas, but will start with the basics and build on the progressive knowledge that all contribute and present here.

Should be very interesting!

Hello Kenny,

Have You ever seen Ed Gray's Prototypes?

Take a look at the video below...skip till He shows rotors-stators...Time 5:00

The History of the EV Gray Motor - Lecture - YouTube

They were Three Poles, Three Huge Poles...and Three Huge Stators...

I am sorry, I know you want to go to the 'conventional designs' first...so be my very welcome guest...We will guide through...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

That IS VERY COOL!!

I just talked with BobFrench who has not been active here for a while. He said to tell you that he is fine and working on his house and wood stove. He also went to Tom Beardens place for the day two weeks ago and Tom told him about a few things that Bob is now working on. WOW, living not to far from Tom, how cool is that.
Dana

Hello Dana,

Wow, that IS VERY Cool...to be able to see Lt Colonel Tom Bearden live!!

YES, Definitively Bob French is a lucky bast***...

Send my regards to Bob

Regards

Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Hi prochiro,

I have run the wound stator arrangement on the motor with 12v, 24v, and 36v at various frequencies. The mosfets obviously heats quicker the more power that is put in to the motor.
However is what I'm trying to say is that what I am realizing at the moment is that pulsing two very different size coils (rotor coil and stator coil) at the same time is causing the heating, not because the rotor coil is to small with to little resistance (this is what I originally thought to).
I can pulse the rotor coil without it even turning all on its own and not get any unusual heating of the mosfets, it seems to be the combination of two completely different size coils causing the heating. The size difference may cause different rates that the coils fields collapse and may effect the mostet. There could be something happening between the two coils and the mosfet, I don't really know yet.

netica

Hello Netica,

Please try adding more load to Radiant Output (after diodes)...not a Symmetric Motor...that will short out the Radiant Field...and NOT just a ONE 23 Watts Lamp...but more...five-six of 23-25 watts each...

Also try adding a load to the Generator output side from the 180º apart brushes...

You have to realize you are turning on a Machine that generates constantly, reversed energy on two sides...Stator and Rotor...and IF you do not consume that energy...it will reverse (negative feedback) through your oscillator system...no matter how good your NTE576 are...they will always "leak" reverse currents...and your MOSFET's will be taking all that huge back flow.

After you add loads properly...then check MOSFET´s temperature...and let Us know...

To make sure of what am saying...just prepare a switch to add lamps...Five, Four Three Two...and keep measuring temperature....you will see how it will increase temp. as you cut lights off...or the other way around...

By the way...did you check the way you have wound rotor versus stator Coils?
Were they wound the same direction?


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Idk...

Hello UFO

Dyno is wire stator.
I have taken the 15 pole rotor out of the Dyno and found the most unique things I have ever seen.
The 15 pin commutators on each end are not connected to any other point except themselves. All pins are connected to each other all the way around but the Ohms change from each pin from any starting pin the same way. When testing two pins next to each other, on right commutator, close pin starts at 6 Ohms and as farther pins are tested, goes to 65 Ohms at 180 degrees. Then as I keep going around Ohms go back down to 6 in the same reverse pattern. Now, on the other 15 pin on the left, close pins start at 21 ohms and end at 243 ohms at 180 degrees around. Note again that there is no connection between ether 15 pin commutator or for that matter there is no connection to any other commutator from any commutator. All connections are totally within each commutator for all four of them. Now for the connection of the larger 45 pin commutators. The left one, whatever pin I put the first lead on shows that the closest 3 pin on both sides are connected for a total of seven pins connected. This pattern holds for whatever pin you start on. There is the same type Ohm patter here starting with 21 and going to 241 on the outer pins of that seven group. Now the right side 45 pin commutator has a twist of its own also. I has the same seven pins pattern but when I place the lead on one pin, the seven others are found at 180 degrees from it.
This whole thing is not making sense to me because if one set of seven are connected and I move the test lead over one pin, the whole group moves by one pin and the pin that was connected to the first set center is now not connected. It is as though there are diodes in line on every wire or something. That can not be true but that is how it acts. Is there something here that we can learn from? I think so, but just tearing it apart at this point will not show us anything. I have checked this thing three times and come up with the same weird data.

15 pole rotor
15 pin outer smaller commutator
45 pin inner commutators
Nothing is connected to pretty much anything

What is going on?
Picture of rotor below.
What I am thinking is that if we find out what is going on here to produce 540 volts and almost no amps, could this be adapted or reversed to produce amps. This is not wired as other Dyno's that I have worked on
Dana.





Dyno2001_zps9debde71.jpg picture by Prochiroone - Photobucket
Dyno2002_zpse38514fe.jpg picture by Prochiroone - Photobucket
Dyno2003_zps78567188.jpg picture by Prochiroone - Photobucket

Hey Dana,

Just by reading your readings I've got a head ache...

Idk wtf is going on there...really ...it does not make sense...they are indeed connected in series up to 180º...then what?

I know it is impossible to see windings there with that huge red thing...epoxy paste or whatever...

One thing you got right: They are all connected (looped) back to the same commutator...and there is absolutely NO Connection between each others commutators...so, Symmetry is there for sure...

On a side note, this Motor I took apart and unwound ...the 4 HP Imperial...it had, after I took all windings off...under commutator...it had jumper wires joining them in a weird array...right under the commutator...so you may have a similar deal there...and that is throwing off your readings.

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]


Regards


Ufopolitics

[prochiro]

Drawing of wiring

HI UFO

This is a drawing of what I meant about the wire setup. What I do not understand is why, when testing continuity, one pin is connected to another sometimes and not other based on the location of the set. Please, no headaches.

dunorotor2.pdf

Dana

[David Fine]

Ufopolitics,

You have a great thread here. Thanks for sharing all this wonderful information with all of us. We really appreciate it.

Best Regards,
David Fine

[kenny_PPM]

[/QUOTE]

Hello Kenny,

Have You ever seen Ed Gray's Prototypes?

Take a look at the video below...skip till He shows rotors-stators...Time 5:00

The History of the EV Gray Motor - Lecture - YouTube

They were Three Poles, Three Huge Poles...and Three Huge Stators...

I am sorry, I know you want to go to the 'conventional designs' first...so be my very welcome guest...We will

guide through...


Regards


Ufopolitics

Hi UFO

Oh yes, Gray's is what started the whole thing for me to begin experimenting long ago.
I have done the magnet test they speak of. The high voltage test of an air coil, and a magnet jumping high in the air. That simple experiment hooked me a long while ago!

I have done many experiments since then and learned a lot about the real strength of magnetic flux thru trial and error. Mostly coil configuration and distances of the opposing forces being the most important.

Have not seen that video that you posted till now.

Thanks!

[jeffy39]

3-pole design

Howdy UFO, SIR!,
Have been 'lurking' quite a while, eagerly trying to absorb all the good info.
Truly appreciate the shared knowledge.
I, (along with Kenny) am most interested in your ideas for an E.V. Gray-like
design. What would you propose for the 3-brush set and comm.?
Also shape of coil tops. (15 deg 'bevel'?)
Any additional info highly appreciated.
Thanks much for all you and fellow forums members do.
Sincerely, jw

[Anoop]

@ Prochiro
@ JohnStone

Hi Friends,

yes, I fully understand and appreciate your inputs, thanks.
John, I've already assembled the 5-pole motor-gen and have been experimenting with using it to drive a standard 5-pole motor as a generator.

It took me quite a while to assemble this properly and I had to destroy around 6 motors in the process. The major difficulty was in cutting the casing while not having a proper workbench setup. I found that any slight warp, twist or bend to the casing during the cutting process rendered the motor unusable, for me at least. The space gap between the armature and the magnets is tiny. So any slight bend in the casing would cause the armature to touch the magnets, or create an uneven rotating space. Trying to correct the bend evenly with hand tools was proving to be very difficult. Ultimately I created a separate casing using rigid acrylic tubing, as one of the members had done earlier.
I am finding that there is considerable "drag" on the armature from the permanent magnets during freewheeling. So I'm now assembling a new 5-pole version of this motor-generator with stator coils rather than permanent magnets. I've cut welding rods into shorter lengths and I am gluing these together in the required shape to form the metal core for the stator coils. This motor will be powered by our original Mosfet pulser (which I am also rebuilding into a more robust version).
I am assuming that with this arrangement at least during the "OFF" period of the pulse, there will be little or no drag on the armature from the Stator. Another thing I want to try is to only draw power from the generator section also only during the pulse "OFF" period. This may further reduce drag, and will also reduce power leakage from motor to generator due to "transformer effect" between the individual coils.
Any other suggestions would be welcome.

@UFO

Hi Dear UFO, I have a few questions if you do'nt mind. You have probably answered these in different ways already, but just to be clear in my mind:

- You have explained to us that in standard symmetrical motors the real problem is not just the CEMF, but more because of the very design where currents are constantly clashing because of constant reversal of polarity of input voltage.

- In these new asymmetrical devices, we have not only stopped the clashing of currents, but we have additionally also prevented CEMF from working against us, and have managed to instead tap this CEMF from the Generator section of these devices as extra energy.

- Just to be clear, CEMF IS Radiant Energy.

- It appears that there are two seperate components of energy working in the generator section of the device. One is the CEMF caused by the collapsing field in the coil. The second component is the current being induced in the coil by it's movement relative to the stator magnet.

- If the above is correct, are these two different energies opposing each other?

- The voltage reading we are getting at the generator section is actually due to the effect of the induced current (conventional generator principle), and not the Radiant Energy? Radiant Energy cannot be measured by conventional meters.

- If designing this device for use as a generator only, would the logical goal be to minimize the induced current portion - thereby reducing magnetic drag, which would then allow more speed and so create more radiant energy?

- This could be achieved with stator coils which are pulsed, instead of permanent magnets.

- If winding a 5-pole armature to act as primarily a generator, would one use the same "inverted V" design? You had mentioned that a generator should have a larger "throw out angle". That would seem to imply that the induced energy has importance.

- You have been mentioning obtaining a conventional generator head if possible. Do you feel that conventional generators are already reasonably designed and do not necessarily require "conversion"?

Sorry my "few" questions have turned into a lot of questions, but just trying to get things clear in my mind, thanks.

Best regards

Anoop

[JohnStone]

......
I have found this circuit to be good so far for what we've been doing here, it was easy to make and worked first go with no problems, I would have liked to have been able to scope the output but unfortunately no scope. It is connected to the battery through a voltage regulator. I may try to up the voltage to 15v as you have recommended JohnStone and see how it goes. At this time I'm starting to realize that the heating of the mosfets may be happening from pulsing two very different size coils (rotor coil and stator coil) at the same time...

You are right. There are many options to make sutch circuits. You are lucky to have succeeded. Do not change it as long it works fine.
Others do not succeed and do not know why. They are stuck. Those unlucky persons are my concern.

My recommendation to those guys:

• Build the oscillator cirtcuit mentioned above - or use one you have built.

TEST: Increase the timing capacitor up to the value you can check - visually - the slow oscillation with a LED connected

• Build the driver FET cluster I suggested

TEST: it statically with DC and resistive load for switching properly. Use meter and a LED/resitor in parallel to the FET. In case of FET being active switched on the LED shall not glow at all in dark environment (red LED will glow above 1.6V)

• Connect both building blocks and check the function with low frequency

• Replace big capacitor timing mentioned above with teh origianl one

TEST: Recheck with resistor load for heat

• You may check addtitional driver stages in parallel
• Now you are ready for kicking your coil or motor

Those two building blocks can be tested and rechecked separately and combining tehm does not generate additionl implications beacause of wire length and generator drive capability. I will add the procedure above to my document sometimes.
The principle behind is to go step by step in order to not be faced with all enemies at same time. Romans had a saying: Divide et impera = divide and rule. This is not true in politics only but in technical matters as well.

[prochiro]

Anoop,

@ Prochiro
@ JohnStone

Hi Friends,

It took me quite a while to assemble this properly and I had to destroy around 6 motors in the process. The major difficulty was in cutting the casing while not having a proper workbench setup. I found that any slight warp, twist or bend to the casing during the cutting process rendered the motor unusable, for me at least. The space gap between the armature and the magnets is tiny. So any slight bend in the casing would cause the armature to touch the magnets, or create an uneven rotating space. Trying to correct the bend evenly with hand tools was proving to be very difficult. Ultimately I created a separate casing using rigid acrylic tubing, as one of the members had done earlier.
I am finding that there is considerable "drag" on the armature from the permanent magnets during freewheeling. So I'm now assembling a new 5-pole version of this motor-generator with stator coils rather than permanent magnets. I've cut welding rods into shorter lengths and I am gluing these together in the required shape to form the metal core for the stator coils. This motor will be powered by our original Mosfet pulser (which I am also rebuilding into a more robust version).
I am assuming that with this arrangement at least during the "OFF" period of the pulse, there will be little or no drag on the armature from the Stator. Another thing I want to try is to only draw power from the generator section also only during the pulse "OFF" period. This may further reduce drag, and will also reduce power leakage from motor to generator due to "transformer effect" between the individual coils.
Any other suggestions would be welcome.


Anoop

Hello Anoop

I have several suggestions for your casings. If you do not have a chop saw, cut with a dremel saw just a bit long and carefully grind to size on the side of a grinding wheel. Hang on to it well and go slow. Now at least you are close. The next step is the same if you solder or weld. I use a portable vise that has a flat bottom and two jaws that are high enough to hold the two halves when laying down. I set the halves on the flat bottom and lightly tighten the jaws a little. Take a straight edge and lay on top to see if the top edges are straight. They do not have to touch all the way around. Move the halves until the top is straight. Solder or tack weld a small spot in center at top. Now turn the halves over about 180 degrees but not to be set on the weld. realign the top with straight edge and tack again. Turn 45 degrees, check and tack. Keep going making sure where you tack is straight. When done, fill in the rest and use the dremel to clean up the inside vary well.
Another reason you might end up with a tight rotor is that the magnets have magnetic dust or crud on them and can not set full into the case.
Case is not round, etc.
I do prefer a steel case and actually use a second slip on cover over that as it repels and keeps the magnetic currents stronger within the case. Your motor will run even better if a cast iron cover is placed over it.

There should only be drag from bearings. If your rotor is still not free from the stator by just a small area of conflict, you can not here it or see it, but can turn the rotor easy at just one spot (between the stators) Also if bearings are loose, rotor drag will be there.
When winding the generator, I use same pattern except rather than winding around the two poles leaving middle ones alone, I rap every pole in the set, more wire, weight and coils that way.

Keep one thing in mind about what you are seeing as magnetic drag. On a motor with no power on, what you are seeing is one half of what makes the motor run. With power on that magnetic drag as you call it now becomes a pulsing push and pull which should make you smile.

You did ask a lot and the other questions my be answered better by John or UFO.
Dana

[Ufopolitics]

Hello Anoop

@ Prochiro
@ JohnStone

Hi Friends,

yes, I fully understand and appreciate your inputs, thanks.
John, I've already assembled the 5-pole motor-gen and have been experimenting with using it to drive a standard 5-pole motor as a generator.

It took me quite a while to assemble this properly and I had to destroy around 6 motors in the process. The major difficulty was in cutting the casing while not having a proper workbench setup. I found that any slight warp, twist or bend to the casing during the cutting process rendered the motor unusable, for me at least. The space gap between the armature and the magnets is tiny. So any slight bend in the casing would cause the armature to touch the magnets, or create an uneven rotating space. Trying to correct the bend evenly with hand tools was proving to be very difficult. Ultimately I created a separate casing using rigid acrylic tubing, as one of the members had done earlier.
I am finding that there is considerable "drag" on the armature from the permanent magnets during freewheeling. So I'm now assembling a new 5-pole version of this motor-generator with stator coils rather than permanent magnets. I've cut welding rods into shorter lengths and I am gluing these together in the required shape to form the metal core for the stator coils. This motor will be powered by our original Mosfet pulser (which I am also rebuilding into a more robust version).
I am assuming that with this arrangement at least during the "OFF" period of the pulse, there will be little or no drag on the armature from the Stator. Another thing I want to try is to only draw power from the generator section also only during the pulse "OFF" period. This may further reduce drag, and will also reduce power leakage from motor to generator due to "transformer effect" between the individual coils.
Any other suggestions would be welcome.

Hello Anoop,

The secret of doing the frame cutting successfully -without the proper bench tools, like a Lathe- lies on taking the accurate and exact measurements in the section to be cut, you must wrap it with tape and mark with very fine pen, marking as many different points from outer end to the area to be spliced.
First make a rough cut not that close to marks, then do the final accurate approach with a hand file, first a coarse then do the fine hand filing.
Position the two pieces together with magnets on, and use some fast glue (crazy glue) just to position/set both parts while checking rotation, till you get it perfect...then solder.

@UFO

Hi Dear UFO, I have a few questions if you do'nt mind. You have probably answered these in different ways already, but just to be clear in my mind:

- You have explained to us that in standard symmetrical motors the real problem is not just the CEMF, but more because of the very design where currents are constantly clashing because of constant reversal of polarity of input voltage.

- In these new asymmetrical devices, we have not only stopped the clashing of currents, but we have additionally also prevented CEMF from working against us, and have managed to instead tap this CEMF from the Generator section of these devices as extra energy.

- Just to be clear, CEMF IS Radiant Energy.

Anoop, You had it right so far, excellent, except that last statement.

The C EMF -Created by Symmetry- is a FALSE reaction, forced by design to reverse our OWN Energy, and use it against Us, against the force of our Machines.
The C EMF that Reverses Naturally, when we leave those Coils along, idling, off...THAT IS Radiant Energy within that flow.
However, that is NOT All there...Pure Radiant manifests OPPOSITE to that already reversed flow my dear.

- It appears that there are two separate components of energy working in the generator section of the device. One is the CEMF caused by the collapsing field in the coil. The second component is the current being induced in the coil by it's movement relative to the stator magnet.

- If the above is correct, are these two different energies opposing each other?

Yes, that is correct.
Now, if you read me in my answer above, you will understand both currents there.
The Induced flow will be in favor to the Radiant Flow.
Also you have to understand that the Hot Induced Flow occurs when we have machines that are based on ferrous materials...
When We don't...then Hot Flow is weak, very weak, and that allows Radiant to manifest stronger.

- The voltage reading we are getting at the generator section is actually due to the effect of the induced current (conventional generator principle), and not the Radiant Energy? Radiant Energy cannot be measured by conventional meters.

Remember my drawing with two diodes reading "another output" reversed to already reversed "C EMF"?

Here:

[IMG][/IMG]

- If designing this device for use as a generator only, would the logical goal be to minimize the induced current portion - thereby reducing magnetic drag, which would then allow more speed and so create more radiant energy?

- This could be achieved with stator coils which are pulsed, instead of permanent magnets.

Ok, we could get Radiant out as much as we want...We still have to develop further the practical use of Radiant...to activate, run our equipments...it is a different current, and it must be "filtered/processed" in order to be usable...so far we are doing it for purposes of scientific study, as to realize it DOES EXIST...
But the 'ready to go' power output that we can be able to run our equipments/appliances...still comes from Hot regular generated Induction, my dear friend.

- If winding a 5-pole armature to act as primarily a generator, would one use the same "inverted V" design? You had mentioned that a generator should have a larger "throw out angle". That would seem to imply that the induced energy has importance.

Negative, larger Throw Out Angles are used for great Motor Action, this design will allow faster and stronger "jumps", throws...impact forces.
In a "Dedicated Generator" it is the opposite my dear, in order to achieve more generated output, we MUST add more wires vertically running and cutting PERPENDICULAR the Magnetic Fields lines...Therefore we need more coils, fraction them into smaller throw out angles...

For example in the Five (5) Pole Motor...instead that each Coil comprehends, wraps, around two poles...it will be fractionated into two coils...meaning now your "V Pair" will have Four Total Coils. Keeping exactly same spec's...same wound directions...same amount of turns except, you will be dividing them by two...so let's say you had before the motor with twenty (20) turns per coil, wrapping around two poles...Forty (40) in the "V" Pair...Well in Generator you will split each Coil in Two...Ten (10) turns each...same wire, same thing, fractal patterns...split coils.

You have to realize that this way we will have MORE wires running across cores...than Motor design.

[IMG][/IMG]

- You have been mentioning obtaining a conventional generator head if possible. Do you feel that conventional generators are already reasonably designed and do not necessarily require "conversion"?

I am in that process to use Asymmetrical Forces to propel, move successfully a Symmetric Generator...I will let you guys know as soon as I test them...
I am not using an old type, generator head, but a pretty new one based on the Brushless Design...it has a better design.

If this test succeed, then we could use the "Fusion" without further conversions...for the People that are in the need to get energy NOW...

Then later We will design MUCH Better Asymmetric Generators that WILL use the reversed forces in our favor...

Sorry my "few" questions have turned into a lot of questions, but just trying to get things clear in my mind, thanks.

Best regards

Anoop

No problem Anoop...hope you understand it better by now...sorry, but I am very busy my dear, and don't have much time...I have answered off my head...and fast...


Regards


Ufopolitics