My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[JohnStone]

Hi Ufo,
pondering on winding direction.

1.
I have the assemebled motor in front of me.
I look from outside perpendicularly on the stator pole performing inside as north.
Current flow in the stator coil is CCW

2.
I have a look from same position at one of the coil pairs at the armature.
The armature inside is aligned with its north half to the stator north.
Current flow is CW in the north half and CCW in the south half.

I can't imagine how to convert this for same winding direction. If I would wind the stator coil in another direction then I need to swap + - and have the current flowing CCW again.

Can you explain your notion: the winding directions stator vs. armature shall be the same?
rgds
JohnS

[prochiro]

John S
You are correct as it is just reversing the stators polarity. If you are incorrect the motor just will not work as well and you will see that right away and turn it off.
Dana

[iankoglin]

Re Imperial Motors

Wow Thanks. I emailed Imperial some weeks ago and did not get any answer.
Did James mention shipping costs?
Do you have the email address from James?

G'Day John S
It took James about 2 weeks to get back to me
No and yes James said that the shipping cost will be calculated when the order is placed.
The email I sent is here
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is a copy
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
G'Day James
Thank you for your quick reply.
I imagine that the motors you have quoted are complete ones

In my initial enquiry here you will notice
---------------------------------------------
I am interested in purchasing
2 Motors part # P56MD003 also
2 extra commutators part # 0567028C also
2 extra Brush Boards part # 0515032 Incl brushes and springs
Preferably I would like the armatures un-wound that is without wire
---------------------------------------------
I did ask for 2 of each part # and in particularly
I would like the motors to be complete motors without the wiring on the armatures as
I want to wire the armature a specific way and do this my self.
The original wiring of the motors I will be removing and rewinding to a different pattern
As I do not require the original wire I would like each motor with a bare armature
Having bare armatures would not only save me the wasted effort of removing the existing wire
but also considerably reduce the freight cost.
I was thinking that the motor cost would be around $350 to $375 mark

I have been working on this project for some 6 years now and have reached the final stage where
Initially I require 2 motors and after completion of my rewiring, installation and testing these motors.
I will require further motors.

Also James please do you have larger permanent Magnet DC motors.

Kindest regards Ian Koglin
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps John you could ask him for bare armatures

Manoff, James <manoffj@ImperialElectric.com>;

It was more than 6 years ago when I was attempting to build a Tesla Switch (I found on Patrick Kelly's pages) to run a car I tried to make it by mechanical switching but the contacts floated on the rotor at the speed I was wanting hoping to get so I gave up on it I have found that UFO is the most helpful of all the sites I have tried to learn. and now it looks like I will eventually succeed in my endevour THANKS UFO for this thread.
Kindest Regards
[IMG][/IMG]

[s e t h]

@JohnStone...as far as i understand when stator and rotor coils are lined up they should be wound as if it was a single direction winding all the way through both coils (according to the right hand rule). Ufopolitics has stated this is very important at collape/generate times for induction to be strongest.

[Ufopolitics]

Welcome Han

I'am not an engineer or an electrician but I thinj your idea's are interresting all though I have a hard time following everything. I just have a question I hope somebody could answer. If I made the rotor round but give the stator a spiral form with the same pole facing in. X would be the stator point closes to rotor, Y would be almost the same point but the furthest away from the rotor. If I would give the rotor a charge to create the same pole as the inward pole of the stator it would go to the point of less resistance, so it would go from x to y almost 360 degrees Iwould only have to stop the current just to go over point x. With more then one coil it would go over point x anyway but why give things more resistance when it is not necesarry. This way the current is going allways in the same direction and allways working to push to motor . I hope this is not a completely stupid idea and that somebody could tell me if this would work or not.
Best regards,
Han

Hello and welcome Han,

Ok, I do understand you perfect, however, magnets do not travel to "points of less resistance"...it does not work like that, Han...
When you energize rotor coil with same polarity as stator facing pole, you are creating a REPULSION FORCE, that will follow a direction as it will be forced by the center rotor shaft tangential vectors...NOW, this force will not "last" all the way to the 360 degrees with same strength as start point, it will suffer a decrease, a decay through time... NOW, IF Rotor, is moving a mechanical load...then this will reduce that originating force considerably depending on the "demand" from load.

A motor is designed to accomplish a mechanical job...now "a good design" will be that where "the job" requirements spec's would be exceeded without getting motor to a Full Blast and top climax performance...Now, having that in mind we must calculate at "over ratings" in our design...therefor...just by looking at a "free rotor" spinning...will not give you a complete picture my dear friend, so do not think..."There will not be required more...", because most of times it is.

Now as Prochiro said, whenever we have Push-Pull or Repulse-Attract forces...our machines will be better balanced.
However, If we were to decide "The Start Force" to apply in our design...I will choose the Repulse Forces, then use the Pull/Attract to Assist rotation...Why?...Because Push/Repulse uses the Inertia Mass Forces of the Rotor Body weight by adding it to the Total propulsion force...and this will be "in crescendo" as our rotor gain revolutions, while Pull/Attract will be pulling all that Rotor Mass, therefore subtracting it to the pull force applied.

Hope you see it better now.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Hello Anoop

Hi UFO!
I realise you've been busy, but have a quick question first, before I come back later with other questions :

In your reply to me you stated:

"Ok, we could get Radiant out as much as we want...We still have to develop further the practical use of Radiant...to activate, run our equipments...it is a different current, and it must be "filtered/processed" in order to be usable...so far we are doing it for purposes of scientific study, as to realize it DOES EXIST...
But the 'ready to go' power output that we can be able to run our equipments/appliances...still comes from Hot regular generated Induction, my dear friend."

OK, fair enough, we are still exploring Radiant Energy. So these assymetrical machines that we are now building are still to use and produce HOT energy, but will do so in a far more efficient way than we have been led to believe is possible. The Radiant Energy part is somewhat seperate (at least for now), and is NOT what we are focusing on for the time being. Is that correct?

Thanks!

Anoop

Hello Anoop,
Yes, you got it right...EXCEPT where you wrote...

The Radiant Energy part is somewhat separate (at least for now), and is NOT what we are focusing on for the time being. Is that correct?

Radiant has NEVER been "separate" from Hot...they all existed ever since electricity was discovered...
The "thing is"...that IF We reverse the current traffic in the same direction Radiant is traveling...then Radiant will get nullified, zero...then a "Reversed Hot" will predominate...this is what happens in Symmetrical Systems Anoop.

If We pulse a Coil...and let it "idle", (turned off)...then Radiant will Increase, since our Hot generating flow is decreasing...remember they work inversely proportional...meaning, the more One grows...the less the other will be and viceversa...

Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Hello Dear John

Hi Ufo,
pondering on winding direction.

1.
I have the assemebled motor in front of me.
I look from outside perpendicularly on the stator pole performing inside as north.
Current flow in the stator coil is CCW

2.
I have a look from same position at one of the coil pairs at the armature.
The armature inside is aligned with its north half to the stator north.
Current flow is CW in the north half and CCW in the south half.

I can't imagine how to convert this for same winding direction. If I would wind the stator coil in another direction then I need to swap + - and have the current flowing CCW again.

Can you explain your notion: the winding directions stator vs. armature shall be the same?
rgds
JohnS

Hello Dear John,

Remember..."Everything is relative" my dear friend...
It depends How you look at your embodiment...as also the way you look at your "Bent Coil" or Rotor Pair...See, my dear friend...You must "straighten" that V Shaped coil in your mind...to establish the winding pattern you are following versus the stator.

I understand to do this is an almost "Illusion" that some can not see at first sight...so I recommend to make a Sketch...where you draw the windings in a piece of paper...this will help a lot...I have thousands and thousands of hand sketches my dear friend...to be able to "see" this in paper perspective.

Now, the Symmetrical Stator You have is a One way stator...or a series wound two coils in order to create a North-South at center of rotor...and if you think about it...it could also be done by reversing the windings OR the Input Voltage Polarity...and still have same polarities results...rotation will not get affected.

I hope this helps you...If not, I will find time to draw a diagram...

Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Imperial Motors/ Dyann

Hello John Stone and Ian Koglin...

As to ALL Members ordering Motors with Imperial...

I have written here a few times by now...to speak to DYANN in Sales...
NOT to Sandy like Turion did...and got a Top MSRP price paid for this Motors...as also for the parts.

And do not waste your time asking about "My Real Name"...She is NOT allowed to give out any "Personal and CONFIDENTIAL Information"...

But , I guarantee She WILL give you the best prices ever...
Tell Her "U.F.O" sent You to talk to her, since she will give you "The Best Price ever"...
And She will laugh out loud...(you just broke the ice)...then the deal will be even better...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Anoop]

Hi UFO!

Hello Anoop,
Yes, you got it right...EXCEPT where you wrote...



Radiant has NEVER been "separate" from Hot...they all existed ever since electricity was discovered...
The "thing is"...that IF We reverse the current traffic in the same direction Radiant is traveling...then Radiant will get nullified, zero...then a "Reversed Hot" will predominate...this is what happens in Symmetrical Systems Anoop.

If We pulse a Coil...and let it "idle", (turned off)...then Radiant will Increase, since our Hot generating flow is decreasing...remember they work inversely proportional...meaning, the more One grows...the less the other will be and viceversa...

Regards


Ufopolitics

Sorry I probably did not express myself clearly. I do appreciate that the radiant has always been there along with the hot.
What I meant to say was that right now, while doing these assymetric machines, we are concentrating only on how to produce more "hot electricity". Is that correct? - That is what I am trying to understand.
(Because you had stated: "But the 'ready to go' power output that we can be able to run our equipments/appliances...still comes from Hot regular generated Induction, my dear friend.")

Now you have said:
"If We pulse a Coil...and let it "idle", (turned off)...then Radiant will Increase, since our Hot generating flow is decreasing...remember they work inversely proportional...meaning, the more One grows...the less the other will be and viceversa..."
So pulsing the coils will produce less Hot? But we DO intend to pulse these coils, and yet we also wish to create more "hot"?
Sorry I do'nt wish to sound dumb, but I am confused. I do not doubt what you are saying, but I am obviously misunderstanding something.

Thanks for your patience UFO!

Anoop

[Anoop]

Hi Prochiro,

Anoop Hi
I read your post, what is your question? I will try to define what UFO said, maybe that will help. Our machines thru scaling up size are capable of much radiant energy. Now once we have it we must decide what to do with it. This energy must be altered befor it is usable in current equiptment. You could charge batteries then run your house with that. Or you could simply push a generator to power your smaller things of need. UFO is working on a system that will involve both of these and more. Generally two banks of batteries being switched with everything controlled automatically and no real input power into the system from outside. We now know that this is possible and in general know how to do it, but we are still researching the best method to do it and as we are not as a large government funded organization, this takes a little time. We have UFO and John Stone who are the best and most generous people any group could have. Maybe I have helped you, maybe not, I tried. We are all looking foreword to your continued input and ideas.
Dana

Thanks for your offer to help clarify. I have rephrased my question in the post to UFO above, and hope that it is now more clear.

Yes, I follow the other things that you have mentioned in your post. In fact in previous years I had experimented a lot with John Bedini's solid-state generator, SSG/Fan Generator etc. for the purpose of pulse charging batteries. For me the major drawback with this was that as per Bedini's instructions, the batteries could only be dishcharged at the C20 rate. The problem was that at this low discharge rate, one would need a Very Large number of batteries to produce enough power to be of practical use. The cost and space required for this discouraged me from upscaling the experiments further. I am however still very much a fan and follower of both Bedini and Bearden's work.

What I like about what UFO is doing now is the fact that we are working with generators to produce power spontaneously as needed. And, hopefully, will continue to be able to use some of this power to keep charging the battery which is driving the prime mover.

I do appreciate all the help being given by UFO, yourself and all the others in the group.

Best regards

Anoop

[Ufopolitics]

Mixing Up Concepts

Hi UFO!




Sorry I probably did not express myself clearly. I do appreciate that the radiant has always been there along with the hot.
What I meant to say was that right now, while doing these assymetric machines, we are concentrating only on how to produce more "hot electricity". Is that correct? - That is what I am trying to understand.
(Because you had stated: "But the 'ready to go' power output that we can be able to run our equipments/appliances...still comes from Hot regular generated Induction, my dear friend.")

Now you have said:
"If We pulse a Coil...and let it "idle", (turned off)...then Radiant will Increase, since our Hot generating flow is decreasing...remember they work inversely proportional...meaning, the more One grows...the less the other will be and viceversa..."
So pulsing the coils will produce less Hot? But we DO intend to pulse these coils, and yet we also wish to create more "hot"?
Sorry I do'nt wish to sound dumb, but I am confused. I do not doubt what you are saying, but I am obviously misunderstanding something.

Thanks for your patience UFO!

Anoop

Hello Dear Anoop,

Ok, We-both- were mixing up concepts here...and I should have defined a line between them before...That is why the 'confusion'...so I will try to clear up the skies...

One Field is the Motor Concept, and the other Field is the Generator operation. We must consider them as different processes, even if they manifest in the same Machine, when speaking of applications and uses related to their operation.

For example: In the Motor side it is an advantage to have our Hot INPUT as low as possible, as long as Radiant presence enhances the motoring force. This will reduce considerably our spent energy to achieve the required Mechanical Force, like heavier Torque and High Speed. So on this part I was referring as to be of benefit to our process.

The generation side on our Asymmetrical Motors is like an "Extra Bonus" we are obtaining based on this design, however, it is not intended to be as powerful as to be able to run by itself (ELECTRICALLY) other Equipments...So, look at this as an "Exhausted Extra Energy" released to obtain a better Motor performance ...

That was it for Motor End...Now, on the Generator side.

I have written here many times that we need DEDICATED GENERATORS to be ran by our PRIME MOVERS or MOTORS...And that applies to Symmetric or Asymmetric Generators.

A Generator concept stills remains the same here..."A Machine that will produce, generate an ELECTRICAL OUTPUT when MECHANICALLY Rotated at the required Speed and Torque..."

Therefore, on our "Motor Side" we need the "ideal Modum Operandi" which is as low ELECTRICAL consumption as we could get...and still delivering a High Torque and High Speed...to be connected MECHANICALLY to the Dedicated Generator ...

Now, even in one single shaft assembly of both machines, Motor and Generator...we still have separated wiring's for each machine...it is understood we could connect -in some examples before- the Motor output to series at generator output...however, this were small lab work to test small machines...as it is better to keep them separate and use it as different branch out loads.

Now, if we are able to propel (understood mechanically) a Symmetric Generator with our Asymmetric Prime Mover...(Let's call it "Process A") and be very successful, meaning our Motor will turn that generator without much effort and with much lower consumption ...give it for granted we have won the main battle on Energy my dear friend...and really we all could take a 'brake' here, to "calmly and relaxed"...develop the perfect asymmetric generators without any "Rush"... while powering all our equipment/appliances...with a recycled never ending energy process running...

Some of Us here are working on that event to be tested...and even if we need to use 48-72 Volts power source to produce 6-10 KVA (120V/50 Amps-240V/25A) my dear...we still be winning this 132 year game...

And if "Process A"...for some reason will not work (which I honestly doubt it won't) ...then we will fully develop NOW the Asymmetric Dedicated Generators...no brake...no Cigar...

But going back to your questions/doubts...make sure you have now clear the difference in both concepts, when talking about Low Hot/High Radiant side for better Asymmetric Motor Application Performance...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[JohnStone]

....
Now, the Symmetrical Stator You have is a One way stator...or a series wound two coils in order to create a North-South at center of rotor...and if you think about it...it could also be done by reversing the windings OR the Input Voltage Polarity...and still have same polarities results...rotation will not get affected.
...

@UFO:
Thanks Ufo for taking time! Yes the motor action is not affected - I tested it. My comprehensin was that the radiant event will cease. Is that correct or not?

~o0o~
@iankoglin:
Thanks for hints.
Tesla switch was my very first concern as well. Now I believe it has much relation to Ufo motors. The magic will not be found in switching of batteries but the switching performed by commutators giving radiant back in the system. It is told that Tesla switch will perform with motors only. In so far we are on the right track with Ufo getting rid of the battery switching and additionally we get novel motors with considerable performance.

@ALL:
I copied my recent posts regarding electronic knowledge to the thread: My Motors got me to Tap into Radiant Energy
I invite you to discuss these items there. I will see this thread once a week.

@ bobfrench: Additionally I added some hints regarding the limits of pulse genertion.

JohnS

[prochiro]

Winding up a Dyno

Hello UFO
15 pole with a little more groove space than expected.
I have been tossing about for days now as to what to do with this thing. I want it to be a good example of your technique. The original had motor coils of 20 gauge on the outside. Sixteen wires in each groove. With our winding method that would be about .1418 ohms per pair. Not good. If the power coils are on the outside, I must calculate enough space for them after the generator coils are on. Bifilar would be great but must move to smaller wire. Just for starters, roughly, what gauge motor wire would you start calculating for the motor side which will drive the other two coils well. I know this will just be a guess from your experience. Maybe just off the top of your mind, what would you do with this whole rotor? No, I cant stick it there. If you do have a guess, I will see if space allows. Thank You.
Dana

[Anoop]

Mixing up concepts

Hi UFO!

Yes, crystal clear now, thanks!

Best regards

Anoop

[JohnStone]

..... With our winding method that would be about .1418 ohms per pair. Not good. If the power coils are on the outside, I must calculate enough space for them . ....

I suggest to calculate it in Excel or similar program applying the standard fomulas.

Input parameters:
- space in one groove (interpole gap)
- length of one turn (average)
- cross area of one wire (wire diameter squared in order to take account for air space)

Output parameters:
Then I checked for different wire diameters, count of turns possible in that area and corresponding resistance as well.

So you can check the impact from different wire diameters. You will get a forecast of about 15% accuracy.