My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[Lightworker1]

UFO. As of our last conversation I suggested we drop the arguing but you can't leave things be that way. My question was legitimate. When you didn't like my video, you told me I should make a new one because I needed to use the Y winding that's why I thought it strange to see someone using the original on the same motor. I wouldn't pick on Lightworker, he made a fine video and I got exactly the same results up to the point where his video ended. I hope he didn't think I was gonna beat up on him and I don't appreciate you trying to convince him that's what I had in mind. I happened to not get good results when testing further with my modification and NO ONE is going to intimidate me into not telling the truth about what I see. I hope others have better luck, but until there is more in depth testing, no one will ever know and we will head for another 3,000 posts.
Thousands of people have done thousands of energy experiments for many years. They all fully believed the inventors and worked hard to replicate their machines only to find out there was nothing they could use in a real life manner to get off the grid or even get relief from the costs. Everyone should have a right to question the inventor or person presenting free energy devices. No amount of intimidation or humiliating comments should stop them from questioning things that don't look right or reporting what they find.
J

@DadHav Thanks for everything I humbly like state following.
I only joined the forum thread somewhere in the summer time of this year. Quite few guys were already showing off their completed RS P-5 motors. I had some other commitments in life come up and I got delayed even further in building my first project. But Ufopolitics original suggestion made quite a sense to me. That get your feet wet with something inexpensive like RS 5 pole Hobby or toy motor. So that was reason for me start with toy motor even though others were getting light years ahead me. I always like to start with a solid base for myself. While I was still in the testing phase making measurements well before the video, I had a chance to buy bigger goldmine motors (possibly 400 series) My first focus was still RS Motor. The video came only at the very last followed editing. On the positive note I like Edison's situation where he was FAILING to get the light bulb to work for the 1000+ times and somebody made a remark, “ Don't think you should give up.” He said no because now I have discovered not to make the light bulb by any of 1000+ methods. I wish you all the success.

Warmest regards
Lightworker

[DadHav]

@DadHav Thanks for everything I humbly like state following.
I only joined the forum thread somewhere in the summer time of this year. Quite few guys were already showing off their completed RS P-5 motors. I had some other commitments in life come up and I got delayed even further in building my first project. But Ufopolitics original suggestion made quite a sense to me. That get your feet wet with something inexpensive like RS 5 pole Hobby or toy motor. So that was reason for me start with toy motor even though others were getting light years ahead me. I always like to start with a solid base for myself. While I was still in the testing phase making measurements well before the video, I had a chance to buy bigger goldmine motors (possibly 400 series) My first focus was still RS Motor. The video came only at the very last followed editing. On the positive note I like Edison's situation where he was FAILING to get the light bulb to work for the 1000+ times and somebody made a remark, “ Don't think you should give up.” He said no because now I have discovered not to make the light bulb by any of 1000+ methods. I wish you all the success.

Warmest regards
Lightworker

Hey Light, I'm a firm believer in what you did. I always start off on a small scale that I can afford. I always hope that with every step I take I learn a little bit more to make my next build better and with more understanding. I have been looking at the motors on Electronic Goldmine for a long time and wondered what they would be like. I'm really looking forward to seeing how a build with this motor turns out. Don't ever think taking the small steps first is anything to be apologetic about. Just think how excited you'll be when that more complicated Y style wind kicks that rotor in the butt and starts singing for you.
Good luck.
John Hav.
PS. Just make sure your having fun.

[john_g]

Johnson Motor UFO build

Hi

Thought I'd share the photos of my Johnson motor conversion. I have added a longer shaft so I can attach a generator etc.

I don't have a lathe, so truing the parts of the cut case can be difficult, but a piece of sanding paper on a glass sheet makes it easy to sand smooth and true, so the parts sit well together.

Will post up running data when I get some.

Here's the rotor:




Using sandpaper on glass plate to true up:



Case before soldering:



Some primitive joining - bit like soldering. Parts held in vice for joining.



Finished motor:

[DadHav]

Hi DadHav,
In short. You conducted some well funded tests and your conclusions were based on current knowledge. I do not know what winding scheme you used. Was that the basic argument you had? At that time I was a neby in Ufo motors. But I vote all following discussions were a matter of misunderstandings and wrong time wrong place....
We believe to be rationally controlled beings but we are not and if we do not account for that reality we fall in every pit coming along. And if two or more persons become infected we get arguing up to war and worse. Vicious circles are made of this material. The good news is that every contributor can die it out by refusing contribution. It is known that at every community the square root of 10% of the members (say 3.3 persons of 100) in a comminity gouvern the mode it lives in positive and negative.
I myself am very supicious as well and turn every fact around in order to find the real truth behind the facts coming along. From time to time I find a step and go further.
BTW: I do not agree with Ufo regarding torque measurements - remember the discussion some month ago. But I accept to be a guest in his thread like a guest in his living room and there is no reason to argue about torque measurements. I accept that those basic discussions might deviate from the ultimate goal.
DadHav, some "contributors" , (not you) misunderstand the location (Ufos living room) and dare to float up again and again in order to not contribute but criticize and if we analyse their motives we turn towards important tasks.
rgds John

Sorry John, I missed something in the post. I used the first winding that was illustrated on my RS motor. This is the same one Light used. UFO suggested I might be in tune to making a new video if I rewound the motor to the updated Y winding scheme. I thought I saw yet another option after the Y winding drawing but I could be wrong. Even though I'm not sure of the exact ramifications of the Y winding I do feel there would be different results because the configuration of the three legs of the armature are more diametrically apposed or the fields 180 degrees rather than what there is with the first scheme. I think there will also be some differnet transfomer effects from the motor coil to the generator coil. I miss things once and a while and UFO may have explained the exact thoughts behind the change, but never the less I'm anxious to see some test results.
Thanks
John Hav.

[Ufopolitics]

Great Build!

Hi

Thought I'd share the photos of my Johnson motor conversion. I have added a longer shaft so I can attach a generator etc.

I don't have a lathe, so truing the parts of the cut case can be difficult, but a piece of sanding paper on a glass sheet makes it easy to sand smooth and true, so the parts sit well together.

Will post up running data when I get some.

Here's the rotor:




Using sandpaper on glass plate to true up:



Case before soldering:



Some primitive joining - bit like soldering. Parts held in vice for joining.



Finished motor:

Hello John_G,

That is a long shaft, great for mechanical connections, as also I have noted is long on rear side too, that is great. Is going to be a very strong motor...

The only thing I have noticed is the soldering...it does not look like it went through the metal in a smooth way...not a good grab and it could come loose with vibrations.
First You need to apply heat to the seam (both surfaces at same time), to the point that just by touching the metal surface with the solder material, it melts...then you control the amount just by pressing it lighter or stronger. And you do first an area, then go to opposite side...and so on.
When you put both parts on a steel vise, the heat gets sink, disbursed, therefore, heat does not concentrate on the desired area...so it is recommended to use an Insulation Material between Vice and Motor body...so no heat loss occur.
I had excellent results with a 65 Watts Iron, since in little time it gets the right temperature just in the contact area.

I have also tack both surfaces with an instant glue, like crazy glue...then solder it.

Remember to take off the stator magnets before applying excessive heat to motor frame...as it will reduce its life and performance.

Great pictures, and thanks for sharing it here, looking forward to see the tests and results.!


Regards


Ufopolitics

[john_g]

thanks

@ UfoPolitics

Thanks for kind words and tips.

The hardest part was removing the magnets from the casing. I tried, gentle heat, which didn't seem to do much. I soaked overnight in acetone -that didn't loosen them, so I applied heat and tapped them out. Is there anything that will dissolve the glue/resin that the magnets are attached by? I'm sure you posted up some advice - maybe for Turion - but I couldn't find it.

Regards

John

[Ufopolitics]

Not that I know off...

@ UfoPolitics

Thanks for kind words and tips.

The hardest part was removing the magnets from the casing. I tried, gentle heat, which didn't seem to do much. I soaked overnight in acetone -that didn't loosen them, so I applied heat and tapped them out. Is there anything that will dissolve the glue/resin that the magnets are attached by? I'm sure you posted up some advice - maybe for Turion - but I couldn't find it.

Regards

John

Hello John G,

My pleasure, now something that dissolves that glue I do not know John...heat...but I apply the heat to the steel outer part behind the magnet, while I soak magnets with a cold water rag...trying to make them move-loose or gently tapping them. I use an Industrial Blower Heat Gun.
That glue is a two part like epoxy, however the catalyzer is just added to surface before adding glue and magnet...but I tell you, it is a very good glue, very hard to soften.

Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Thanks Dave...

UFO,
You were kind enough to post on my thread, so I will return the favor. I haven't given up on my UFO motor and generator. In fact, I have spent considerable time figuring out how to modify a MY1016 so it will EASILY fit into a single motor case:

1. use the two wider end caps you can get when you take two motors apart...they have the brush plates in them
2. mark the cap for how the brush plates are aligned
3. remove the brush plates from both caps
4. grind off the brush plate support posts
5. insert a 1/16 inch spacer epoxied in place in the end cap
6. epoxy the brush plates to the spacer aligned EXACTLY the way they were aligned originally
7. move the commutator 1/4 inch farther from the armature than it is currently to help clearance on the wire when winding the armature. This will save you ALL KINDS of headaches because that extra 1/4 inch clearance means your wire will not come CLOSE to your brushes when the armature is spinning.
8. add second commutator aligned with first and epoxy it on the shaft the same distance from the armature as the original commutator is now, only on the opposite side of the armature
9. grind off the tab that locks the NEW end cap in place, but mark where it was on the end cap for reference. This will help you to be able to turn the cap to adjust timing.
10. WInd the armature. Be sure to put the finished armature between two pieces of board and pound that wire as flat as you can get it to make sure it does not hit the brushes when it spins. Epoxy it in place!!!!!!!!!!

11. There are two ways to hold this motor together. Either replace the original bolts with lengths of all thread and drill holes all the way through one of the end caps so nuts can be put on the outside of the end cap to hold both caps in place, or use two hose clamps to clamp the end caps to the casing. Either one works very well. I would use the hose clamps until you get the timing adjusted and then look at where you will need to drill hole to have the bolts go through.

16. I use a piece of thread looped around the copper piece that is attached to the brushes to pull the brush back into the brush holder. I hold the thread in place with a piece of duck tape on the outside of the cap. Once the cap is in place, remove the tape and pull on one end of the thread to release the brush.

As to my generator...I still have to glue the magnets in place in my long housing for my generator and fit bearings to the generator shaft, but I will get there. I have not given up on this project...just had to wait for another motor to come to get the one magnet I needed for the generator and the one more motor casing I needed to give me the correct length of body to house my generator. Have to weld that body to the other three that I already have welded together, and it holds the five armatures that are already wound and ready to go. A lot of MONEY, time and work has gone into this, so I am not giving up on it. It will be a really nice unit when I am done with it. I am very happy with it so far.

Unfortunately, I AM leaving for a week for a vacation so will not be working on it for a while. But all your advice and "one on one help" was not in vain. I WILL finish this project. Then I plan to run the generator with the UFO motor and a standard motor and see what the results are. Measure the amp draw of both and the output of the generator in both tests. I will happily make that information available. After all, that is the real test....to see the UFO motor and a stock motor side by side performing the exact same job and see which one is more efficient under load.

Dave

Hey Dave,

Thanks for responding here...however, you still would have to get back to me over there...LOL
Is OK my friend, I know how life is when we are not wealthy enough not to need to work for a living...
I have posted there since I "heard" my name being called a few times... ...kidding... I follow your thread as well as others I like to read...and I noticed you and JJ UK were talking about my Motors...So I felt like helping you guys...and by the way to complain about your absence here...We miss you !!

By the way...did you read my "theory" hints to your system as well?

Anyways, thanks again for dropping by, looking forward to hear and see your machines running...


Regards Dave


Ufopolitics

[Lightworker1]

Hey Light, I'm a firm believer in what you did. I always start off on a small scale that I can afford. I always hope that with every step I take I learn a little bit more to make my next build better and with more understanding. I have been looking at the motors on Electronic Goldmine for a long time and wondered what they would be like. I'm really looking forward to seeing how a build with this motor turns out. Don't ever think taking the small steps first is anything to be apologetic about. Just think how excited you'll be when that more complicated Y style wind kicks that rotor in the butt and starts singing for you.
Good luck.
John Hav.
PS. Just make sure your having fun.

Many Thanks
Warmest regards
Lightworker

[Lightworker1]

Hi

Thought I'd share the photos of my Johnson motor conversion. I have added a longer shaft so I can attach a generator etc.

I don't have a lathe, so truing the parts of the cut case can be difficult, but a piece of sanding paper on a glass sheet makes it easy to sand smooth and true, so the parts sit well together.

Will post up running data when I get some.

Here's the rotor:




Using sandpaper on glass plate to true up:



Case before soldering:



Some primitive joining - bit like soldering. Parts held in vice for joining.



Finished motor:

@ Hello John_g
Thanks for the tip on using a glass plate. Great idea! It is better than using plywood sheet which I used with my first RS-5 Pole hobby motor. Today I will also go to my local hardware store to see how well 12"x12" glass tile fit into this scheme.
Many thanks

Lightworker

[JohnStone]

Just put my hand on a second Unite MY1020 24V 500W with shorter casing than my first one with 1000W (same diameter 106mm). The difference in length is 15mm (150mm vs. 135mm). You will get soon dimensions and pics in order to evaluate the chances this mechanic provides.
JohnS

[Derisa]

Great thread UFOpolitics - thanks for sharing your experience. This particular is motor idea is new to me and I have a few questions maybe someone might know the answer to.

First let me admit I did not read the whole big thread.

1. Would it be fair to say this motor is a rotating isolation transformer that uses one battery to charge another.

2. What do we gain by spinning the mass? Wouldn't it just make more sense to cancel lentz law (CEMF) on a transformer core such as with Thane Heinz bi-toroid transformer?

Don't get me wrong, I love your idea and I have lots of ideas on how to improve it further but I need to see what I am missing here as to why we need to spin some mass which creates a friction loss.

[Ufopolitics]

Hello Derisa

Great thread UFOpolitics - thanks for sharing your experience. This particular is motor idea is new to me and I have a few questions maybe someone might know the answer to.

First let me admit I did not read the whole big thread.

1. Would it be fair to say this motor is a rotating isolation transformer that uses one battery to charge another.

2. What do we gain by spinning the mass? Wouldn't it just make more sense to cancel lentz law (CEMF) on a transformer core such as with Thane Heinz bi-toroid transformer?

Don't get me wrong, I love your idea and I have lots of ideas on how to improve it further but I need to see what I am missing here as to why we need to spin some mass which creates a friction loss.

Hello Derisa,

I do recommend you read -at least- the extracted pdf that Members Anoop as also Interdesign has done and published on this thread...and after you read them...then could see the testing pdf forms uploaded by Sir John Stone.

Your questions...well... I will try to explain as simple as I could...

1- Does the Isolated Transformer Coils, whether the primary or secondaries... "Interact" within an outer Magnetic Field?
The answer is no...so Yes, it would be (not unfair) but the wrong comparison there Derisa.

2- What do we gain by spinning the mass?...

Just stay tuned...and you will see what an Asymmetric Mass turning could run...

You can not look at this Machines "partial" parts...like you are analyzing just their armatures coils...then relating them to a Static device,like a Transformer.
You are not considering the switching on-off fields/coils...that does not happens in any transformer...
You are overlooking the Stators interactions .
You are missing the whole picture of the Dynamics in them...heavy torque plus high speed...High Power to run...let's say a Generator Head..

However, I understand some people does not see the importance of a Motor... its torque and speed ratios...as other attributes...they rather stay within the Static World...and if that is your case...then you would not find this thread motivating ...

A good thread I recommend for statics is the Don Smith's...just a bit longer than this one...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Cornboy 555]

Need to Ask

Hello to all,

Like I wrote before I am extremely busy, however, I am also busy constructing the FINAL TESTING...
There WILL NOT BE another 3000 Posts before I present My Set Up...
My Intentions are NOT to argue here anymore with anyone...as it will be just a matter of time to prove beyond doubt this Technology WILL turn a Symmetric Generator INSTEAD of a stinking, farting,little one cylinder gas engine...
I am entirely committed to build this Asymmetric Prime Mover in excellent and robust ways...to put -finally- behind, the obsolete Gas Prime Mover Story Teller...

I have an "untouched" Original P56 Imperial Motor...that I will connect-couple to Generator...so all see that it will NOT turn it with same feed...as Symmetric design.

I will show the inner construction in detail of this conversion, as why I have chosen this Motor...

You guys building and testing other models are doing a great work...please do not get disturbed by the "Audience Inquiries/Opinions"...keep going...

So Prompt...the Brushed Motors are dying?

Check out this One...

[IMG][/IMG]

EV Source - NetGain WarP 11 Electric Motor


Regards


Ufopolitics

Hello UFO, and everyone, have been following you from your first "tap into radiant energy"
PWM thread and would like to say thanks UFO for your dedication to this disclosure, and your practical teaching,hopfully for others to follow. I am a Bio-Dynamic farmer with a background in fitting & machining and motorcycle mechanic and have a good w/shop with lathe, mill, etc. My main interest is in Powering Electric Vehicles with a technology like you have displayed(the only way is to take away the need for oil).I would be very greatfull if you could answer a few things for me.

1.Have you been inside a Netgain series wound Warp motor, is it possible to modify them to asymmetric mode, like DC perm magnet motors?.

2.If it's not possible to make silk purses from sow's ears what would you suggest is the best configuration to base a high torque motor on, suitable for EV propulsion.I would like to start with a small 6"rotor 3 pole prototype for testing, because of the room for secondary windings on the rotor.

3.Is it necessary to have iron in rotor and stator for torque. I have made several pulse motors without iron, but very little torque.

STATMENT: I can make almost anything, but am Electronics DUMMY


PLEASE Everyone i don't mean to take UFO'S home off topic, but am at the stage of needing help with design so as not to waist precious funds.

I know you are very busy at the moment UFO, i have moved a mechanical business twice due to expansion, and setting up sucks. If you could please answer me when you have a spare moment i would really apreciate it.

Cheers and THANKS my FRIEND.

[Ufopolitics]

Thanks Cornboy

Hello UFO, and everyone, have been following you from your first "tap into radiant energy"
PWM thread and would like to say thanks UFO for your dedication to this disclosure, and your practical teaching,hopfully for others to follow. I am a Bio-Dynamic farmer with a background in fitting & machining and motorcycle mechanic and have a good w/shop with lathe, mill, etc. My main interest is in Powering Electric Vehicles with a technology like you have displayed(the only way is to take away the need for oil).I would be very greatfull if you could answer a few things for me.

1.Have you been inside a Netgain series wound Warp motor, is it possible to modify them to asymmetric mode, like DC perm magnet motors?.

2.If it's not possible to make silk purses from sow's ears what would you suggest is the best configuration to base a high torque motor on, suitable for EV propulsion.I would like to start with a small 6"rotor 3 pole prototype for testing, because of the room for secondary windings on the rotor.

3.Is it necessary to have iron in rotor and stator for torque. I have made several pulse motors without iron, but very little torque.

STATMENT: I can make almost anything, but am Electronics DUMMY


PLEASE Everyone i don't mean to take UFO'S home off topic, but am at the stage of needing help with design so as not to waist precious funds.

I know you are very busy at the moment UFO, i have moved a mechanical business twice due to expansion, and setting up sucks. If you could please answer me when you have a spare moment i would really apreciate it.

Cheers and THANKS my FRIEND.

Hello Cornboy and thanks!, it is all my pleasure.

1-I have been able to see a WarP9 Armature...as so, you will in the video below...go to 10:00

Oct 21, 2012 - EVTV Green WarP 9 Motor Disassembly - YouTube

Now that armature is wounded with the single heavy gauge wire, which is the typical "new Symmetric method" brush motor styles for EV's, including Utility and small EV like Golf Carts...On video you could see the excessive heat that rotor has been exposed to...it is a heavy and serious short 100 percent of its running time...

It is NOT good for an Asymmetrical Conversion due to lack of room to wind finer wire and several turns per Groups. This cores opening between poles do not go all the way close to shaft and sometimes they just have a drum like inner space...

Also take a look at your space to add the second Commutator...no room either, shaft is not long enough...therefore outer housing also needs to be elongated...

So, honestly...trying to adapt this motor to Asymmetric...you would be better off making everything from scratch (at least all from shaft, CAD/Cut armature steel laminates pressing them on shaft then insulating them...for rotor/armature, as also the outer frame housing...and just getting the commutators and brushes housings with their boards...

Still, That is a lot of work my friend...that is why I recommend some specific motors to do this modifications...since I have gone already through all this trouble/time and $pending lot's of it...

2-It depends on the demand/request that you want from the EV. application..also room to mount it... weight to drag...want it street legal?...country roads?...racing...etc,etc
Propulsion of an EV...I have considered to build an specific machine...about the size of the Gas Engine Block (including the heads), then adding same required accessories like the power steering pump, vacuum pump (for brakes and AC operations of control gates) Air Conditioning Compressor...etc...(We will not need a water pump...no water, and no Alternator...we have a huge one... ...Add those to front end through front plate bracket mount and belt pulleys drive, and connect rear of motor shaft to Tranny Bell Housing at back...so it will be mounted and connected just like the Old Gas Engine.
Now related to Asymmetric Design...I posted recently The Magnificence of Three...and that design will "Rock and Roll" your EV...based on 36 poles or more...multiples of 3,6,9...like 72 poles or more within those combinations.
And again a cheaper deal would be the Imperial Motor I am working on...but that would move only small vehicles...like small 4 passengers utility cars...

If you look at the WarP9 spec's... it uses over 200 to 300 Volt System...and around the same amount in Amps...that requires a whole bunch of stack batteries...adding lot of weight to Vehicle...drag galore. We do not need that much power weight room from "Source" to propel our Asymmetric powered vehicles...


3- Yes, definitively...to have the required heavy power/torque we need the old steel...when working with Hot Side, my friend.

Statement Response: In order to be able to control the speed of your EV Motor precisely ...definitively you will need a bit of Electronic Circuitry work...but come on...all the Diagrams and parts are there!!...all you need is to put them together like a LEGO for a three years old...

But do not worry...we got great Electronic Engineers around here like Sir John Stone...so dont worry be


Regards


Ufopolitics