My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[Ufopolitics]

Hey Machine...

Hey UFO,



So, initially, when p1 first touches s1 brush, it conducts current and forms a magnet with south pole facing s1, it repels and moves cww.

That's correct...

As soon as it breaks contact, hot current stops flowing so the hot south pole ceases. But cold still flows, since nature is the battery, and the coil is connected across it . If we put a light in between n and s coil of p1 it would be on?,

As soon as it breaks contact Hot current does not cease flowing, this stage is very well explained in the Inductor behavior in switching DC/DC Converters...but I will try to explain it:
As soon as Hot stops flowing, (because an Off Time in DC/DC Converters is due to oscillation square pulses, in our Motors commutator/brush makes that effect when disconnected)
The Hot Magnetic field starts to Collapse...then Voltage "swings" to opposite terminals, reversing...trying to keep Current (I) constant...(that's what "they say") magnetic polarity reverses also (That I say...I have proven this fact in my First Thread, Machine)...But this is Hot effect, not Radiant...and yes, that reversal is "magnetically" weaker than the following energized Coil..or P2-P16...as also current is weaker at that stage.
If You get a light...in between N1 and S1 of P1 Coil...when it is idling...or disconnected ...you meant right?...light will be dim...

Does this set up poles on the coil, they would be opposite which would attract back to s1 and slow rotor? But, does radiant cause a pole to form, I don't think it would, would it, if we can't get hot from cold, can we get a pole from cold. If it does, hot is stronger so the repulsion of next coil p2, would repulse in a ccw direction, though hindered from cold .

That is exactly right...

The collapsing magnetic field from Hot is weaker...as it also "invokes" the Radiant Field, which is ALSO Opposite... in its downgrade stage, however, the faster the Motor runs...the less Radiant flow (more times On)...unless we apply a mechanical load to motor, then Radiant grows again, due to longer times Off.

There would be a hot voltage potential but no hot current, until we close circuit. We should start collecting as soon as coil leaves brush, or close to it,
Then hot would flow as coil moves through field, in same direction as input while coil is in s1 field, then where would current direction change, when coil bisector is between both s1 and n2?

[IMG][/IMG]

Do you want to collect Hot?...then set collecting brushes closer to Input...
Do you want to collect Radiant?...then further away from Hot Input...
simple as that.

That is why I have written here many times...I want to experiment with the "closed circuit" of LC Parallel Tank in our Coils at armatures...so they keep swapping/exchanging energy (between Inductor to Cap and from Cap to Inductor) in their stages off without loosing potential or weaker currents.

where would current direction change, when coil bisector is between both s1 and n2?

Machine, like I have said many times here...that process does NOT occur like a switch...is a gradual stage, as I explained before in the beginning...voltage swaps, trying to maintain I (current) constant because of Hot collapsing field...

Or do we wait until p1 coil bisector, starts moving over n2 magnet?

Then we collect until p1 coil gets to field change of s2, coil bisector between
n2 and s2, or when pi coil bisector starts over s2 mag?

I lost you here my friend...sorry, have no idea why you keep revolving around same principle that repeats and repeats...for as long as it rotates...

So we need start using different brushes/collectors to feed dc caps opposite now or use ac caps?
Then use different collectors, which switch pole that collectors feed to caps.
So if we use ac caps we collect from when coil leaves s1 brush, until just before s2 brush. But with dc caps we switch polarity from positive s1 to negative n2 to positive s2. or just collect dc from a 90* quadrant that the p1 coil stays in while in n2 field.

I have some magnetic field viewing film coming, and I thought of some experiments I need to do.

Sorry it's wordy, and no time to spell check, will check/correct later?

Machinealive

Machine...I recommend that when you get back home...(hope it would be very soon... )...you start playing around with your set up...and finding the answers for yourself... that, is the best way of getting to the bottom of this...and you have it all there my friend...

The way you have set the electrolytic (polarized) Caps is excellent...so whatever you DO...please do NOT take this set up apart till you Find Out and...You are sure of what went on there...so, please..."Don't touch that Dial"...


And, since we are talking about your set up...Could you draw the way you had ALL those batteries connected between 12V Oscillator feed plus...36 V FET's Source-Drain to Motor?

I have tried to figure it out myself...of how you've got 48V at Motor Drain (supposing that was what triggered the 9000 RPM's you've got)...and really...I am still not sure it could be possible...even, if FET's went bad...and shorted Gate with Drain...or Source with Drain...

Regards my friend


Ufopolitics

[Rl2003]

Schematic

John Stone very nice work.

Can you put up a pdf. of the schematic, or some type file.
I would like to put it into Eagle from cadsoft. I am able to mill
a board 80mm x 100mm, thats the max size allowed, two sided.
After I route all the traces I can post the board file for anyone else
you wants to use the Eagle software. It's a shareware.

Thanks,
Mark

[iankoglin]

I wonder how Ian Koglin made out with his motors, if they were magnetized when he recieved them? He must still be working on the smaller motors.

G'Day Machine,UFO ,et al
I am watching and enjoying your progress and just can't wait to start on my emperial p56 motors
I have all three of my P56 motors I received them one week apart All seem ok except the first one of the brushes did not fit into it's holder I had to use some sand paper to reduce it's thickness and with the end plates they would not quite fit into the respective ends of the stator case I needed to ease them a bit so they fitted snug and were able to rotate easily but not too loose.

Where am I at the moment?
I want to build my 2 smaller motors to practice my wiring before I start on the P56 motors
I have 2 mobility scooter motors to modify and 2 1000w motors like J Stone purchased but have been waiting for some shafts/arbours to replace the original ones to extend them to fit the extra commutator then I have to wait for my engineering friend to do the turning and fitting the extended housings/stator cases, its seems here downunder I always am waiting for parts so I can continue on these projects. I received the armature arbour blanks to be turned to fit the armature's,commutators/bearings and ChainSprockets.

Yesterday my friend extended the case for the Mob-scooter motor and tomorrow he will turn the armature shaft and fit the comms,etc.
I will then wire it and test it and fit it to my Bicycle using a controller I built earlier. I will show my progress

I have just received the components to make a better/larger controller to use on the unmodified 1000 w motor I am going to fit this into a Tricycle I am building and run/test this make notes and compare to the modified one I will build when I receive the third 1000w motor when it arrives Feb or March

I really want to get these two motors done before I start on the P56 motor so I gain the extra winding experience

Kindest Regards to you all

Still waiting for parts and watching/learning

[machinealive]

@UFO

And, since we are talking about your set up...Could you draw the way you had ALL those batteries connected between 12V Oscillator feed plus...36 V FET's Source-Drain to Motor?

I have tried to figure it out myself...of how you've got 48V at Motor Drain (supposing that was what triggered the 9000 RPM's you've got)...and really...I am still not sure it could be possible...even, if FET's went bad...and shorted Gate with Drain...or Source with Drain...

No problem ufo, but I need a bit of time, cause I'm coming as I'm going right now... but will tonight.

[Donald Haas]

Prochiro,

Good question. I was running into the same thing.

Only place I could find the BZW06-171B is:
ST MICRO BZW06-171B | www.pricelynx.com
and they only had 7 left.

IndianaBoys

I Went shopping I tried to get every thing.
This info might be helpful.

I COMPARED DATA SHEETS AND FOUND EXACT MATCHES

BZW06=171B MATCHED SPEC FROM DIGIKEY BELOW
P6KE200A-E3/54GICT-ND .....DK#
P6KE200A-E3/54 .....MF#

BZW06-15 MATCHED SPEC FROM DIGIKEY BELOW
497-12046-1-ND .....DK#
P6KE18CA .....MF#

[machinealive]

Hey UFO,

As soon as it breaks contact Hot current does not cease flowing, this stage is very well explained in the Inductor behavior in switching DC/DC Converters...but I will try to explain it:
As soon as Hot stops flowing, (because an Off Time in DC/DC Converters is due to oscillation square pulses, in our Motors commutator/brush makes that effect when disconnected)
The Hot Magnetic field starts to Collapse...then Voltage "swings" to opposite terminals, reversing...trying to keep Current (I) constant...(that's what "they say") magnetic polarity reverses also (That I say...I have proven this fact in my First Thread, Machine)...But this is Hot effect, not Radiant...and yes, that reversal is "magnetically" weaker than the following energized Coil..or P2-P16...as also current is weaker at that stage.
If You get a light...in between N1 and S1 of P1 Coil...when it is idling...or disconnected ...you meant right?...light will be dim..

Thats as it's breaking contact, thats our sparking, but once disconnected, idling, no hot is flowing, right. It's open?.

Do you want to collect Hot?...then set collecting brushes closer to Input...
Do you want to collect Radiant?...then further away from Hot Input...
simple as that.

As long as coil is passing through a magnetic field, how can we not, collect hot.

I lost you here my friend...sorry, have no idea why you keep revolving around same principle that repeats and repeats...for as long as it rotates...

Well, UFO, because I am going to design a new brush holder. The gen brushes are going to wrap around comm, instead of across, from s1 to s2, somewhere there, if ac caps, but will have to split if wanting to collect dc, as hot current will reverse from s1 to n2, n2 to s2, and I'm wondering where best spot to split brush would be. .

Thinking, I couldn't have one brush, from s1 to s2 no matter what caps, cause some coils would cancel. so would have to split brush. I think i'll try just collecting over n1 and n2, in parallel, with a long thin brush sideways, rounded. They would all be in parallel, dumping to caps, through app 90*.

[Cornboy 555]

Suggestions?

Hello Ian Koglin, a little off topic, but i was just going over your happy motor video and was wondering if you had run your 1000w motor on that setup, in the vid you use 250W motor, also what were the stats of your happy motor coils.

The reason i ask is i am still trying to decide how best to use the radiant output from my MAG3 stator coils, when ready, and running a stock DC motor that turns a asymetric generator really appeals to me.

What do you think UFO, or anyone out there?

I intend to use Cree SIC diodes which should be excellent to filter the cold out, but then the best possible useage of this freebee is sure open for discussion.

There are several different options available for winding the stator coils, including secondaries, which can be seperate but wound on the same core as primary, or wound over the top of primary.

Any and all suggestions on winding and harvesting from stators when pulsed are truley welcome as i should have rotor finished in a week or so.

Best Regards Cornboy.

[machinealive]

Hey UFO,

Here is a pic I drew of circuit, I am sure it is correct, I had two fets in parallel, and 8X2200uf (connected in parallel) across output. Neg from coil is at one end of cap, pos from coil at other end of caps, like John Stone recommended.



I'll draw a better one if thats not good.

[IndianaBoys]

Torqmaster 180

Hey IB,

Thanks!..I will read article, as I will also get that Book...it seems very interesting.

Now I wanted to say I did read your past comment related to your TorqMaster arriving and needing the amount of turns...as also another Member there...
Ok, I have not been able to wind that Motor as per the new P12 Diagram...sorry, no time yet, therefore, I can't give you an exact number...as I have not tested that Diagram in Real Lab yet...It turn out like a winner on Paper...and CAD...but I am never sure, till I face the Real Facts of Real Models...

If you guys want to go for it...please do it, You will have to play "by ear"...Member Sebosfato is doing it...however, I would say it will take between 10-15 turns of 20-23 gauge...18 will be less...so I really have to seat down and figure this out...

Warm Regards

Ufopolitics

Hi Ufopolitics & those that have constructed this particular machine,

Revisiting wire requirements for the Torqmaster 180.

Have you had a chance to figure gauge, length and turns for the Ufopolitics Asymetric 12P-12Comm Torqmaster 180 Brush-Comm 90 Degrees Displacement?

Any other construction advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

IndianaBoys

[Ufopolitics]

That is the way I have figured...

Hey UFO,

Here is a pic I drew of circuit, I am sure it is correct, I had two fets in parallel, and 8X2200uf (connected in parallel) across output. Neg from coil is at one end of cap, pos from coil at other end of caps, like John Stone recommended.



I'll draw a better one if thats not good.

Hey Machine,

Drawing is perfect, no worries...

That is the way I have figured it out...you must use a common ground for it to work...

Now, (And if anyone disagrees with me, please, let me know...)

As I see your connection, which is the way to do it when using a separate feed for PWM...(so, do not worry Machine, you are fine...)

There is absolutely no way...that even if FET Shorts our S-D it will just apply the full 36 volts...
And if FET Shorts Gate with Drain (which is by the way not that common)...you will NOT have a Full 48 Volt battery adding in series there...The 12V Source from Pad will be set opposite, meaning Negative to Negative (common ground) , then Positive from Gate will run through the drain...just like in the 3BGS System from Turion...

So, again...I have no idea what happened there...


Regards Friend


Ufopolitics

[machinealive]

Hey Ian
I Can't wait to see your tricycle Ian, I'm glad you didn't have to ship those stators back.

[JohnStone]

Prochiro,

Good question. I was running into the same thing.

Only place I could find the BZW06-171B is:
ST MICRO BZW06-171B | www.pricelynx.com
and they only had 7 left.

IndianaBoys

PLEASE wait ! I told this special component is a place holder only! It is a protecting device and needs to be adapted to your FETs and application. i.e. for IPW60R041C6 I choose two P6KE250CA in series in order to get capacitive influence to a minimum. It is some tricky to have spikes not influenced but still run FETs safe. Lots of parameters to be taken in account.
You will get a reliable BOM soon.
JohnS

[sampojo]

Hardened RS motor 2

Got my first motor outfitted for HV hi-rpm running, epoxied the windings, have run about 20v getting 15v radiant. Put an LED on the radiant, knocks it down to 12v. Just got my rpm gauge, no data there yet. Exploring using it as a generator. It re-used the original 30ga RS wire. 20' of wire per coil, 4 ohms and a double sized rotor. Radiant output seems very good.

Slapped motor 2 together real fast, single rotor, 28ga red wire. Had to restart winding once could not fit 50 turns per 1/2 coil, went to 40 turns. By the time I got to the last coil, I was down to 37 turns per half coil, as the end coils are larger, wrapping around the coils underneath. I just assembled the motor to completion, epoxying the windings right away, soldering the commutators with just a quick continuity test. 2 ohms per coil with this thicker wire, only 13'. With the rotor completely stuffed, I luckily gave myself an extra 1/16" gap on the commutator, sure needed it. But the original sizing of the motor body way short (again). used bearings.

It seems more powerful, but only got 4v radiant running on 12v.

Compared asymmetric and original windings, orig rotor so sad. The asym rotor looks ready for bear! Just a few finishing touches and I will couple them and see what happens. Trying to figure the best connections. Want to see how close I can get to a self-runner.

Planning a window motor induction generator combination, small scale imperial setup.

[JohnStone]

John Stone very nice work.

Can you put up a pdf. of the schematic, or some type file.
I would like to put it into Eagle from cadsoft. I am able to mill
a board 80mm x 100mm, thats the max size allowed, two sided.
After I route all the traces I can post the board file for anyone else
you wants to use the Eagle software. It's a shareware.

Thanks,
Mark

Thanks for contribution! It will be a great help for all of us. My layout was made as side effect only in order to study how to place on breadboard 1/10" pitch. It was my first contat with a PCB layout program.
Please wait some hours. Apart that I would recommend two of us to build it first on breadboard. I will start ASAP with building after finshing design.

JohnS

[JohnStone]

Hey Dana, Indianaboys,

couldn't find it either so I used a different one, P/n 497-12470-1-np, transil 600w 376v bidir do-15, 60 cents, also was gonna see if the fod3180 opto is ok, still had some of those. If I have to find new ones they'll be home before me.

That will fit as well but does not make use of whole voltae capability of the Infineon FET. BZW06, TVS, Transil, Transzorb are all the very same technology. Common used types are P6KE for 600W (preferred) and 1.5KE big bouys 1500W (short ime only) i.e. P6KE15A (unidirectional) and P6K250CA (bidirectional)
You shurely can use FOD3180 but you need to figure out yourself how to connect it.
JohnS