My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[warrensk]

16 pole modification...

Thanks guys but if you mean this video by dave as in 11turion...

3BGS Razor scooter motor MY1016 - YouTube

Its not much of a help at all. Very hard to understand and I dont think that winding is even the same as the one UFO suggested for the 16 pole. Anyways I think I have it figured out but halfway through I decided to check the connections and the wire has chipped through its coating on the sharp corners of the outside laminates. This resulted in little shorts through out the coils....Ill be starting over tomorrow. If this has happened to anyone else it would result in a very hot motor even if it does spin....

@laserjo thanks for the idea of using 2 housings. I'd like to get it into one. Ill have to split some of the laminates off and put some more room between the commutators and laminates.

Thinking about using the extra motor housings for a 10, 12 or 20 pole motor using 5-6 plexiglass circular cut outs and drilling out spaces for the wire and maybe some capacitors. Those machines look much more interesting... I like the quad pentagon design. Cant decide which ones I like best...maybe in time I will get to test them all!

[adversarius]

Polarities

Hello!

This is my first post in this forum and at first I want to thank you all for your great work that you do here. The stage of development is to advanced for me, so I start with a beginners question. I am about to build my first asymmetrical machine (toy motor), but one thing is still unclear to me: where is the input and where is the output of the motor?

There is one picture that shows that input and output are diagonal to each other and same polarities are on one side respectively.
--> Directupload.net - i7diwflt.jpg

There is another picture showing the same polarities diagonal to each other and the input on the left side.
--> Directupload.net - d9mvktf7.jpg


Thanks

Christian

[prochiro]

@ Christian

Welcome.
There are several ways to wire the motors. For your first motor, just wire positive at left top and negative at right bottom (diagonal). The other diagrams are ether setups for several motors or drawn incorrect for simplicity and diagonal is understood. There are a few things around here like that, especially in the circuits. Tricky? Well yes, but not intentional.
Get your first motor in your hands and understanding comes very fast at that point.
Dana

[prochiro]

Warrensk

Many of the rotors are coated with epoxy but some are not. Putting an insulated sleeve under the wire and sticking it out a bit past the ends prevents cutting the wire when you pull it tight. I would think that even a coat of high temp. engine paint would suffice in the small motors.
Dana

[Ufopolitics]

Hello Warrensk,

Thanks guys but if you mean this video by dave as in 11turion...

3BGS Razor scooter motor MY1016 - YouTube

Its not much of a help at all. Very hard to understand and I dont think that winding is even the same as the one UFO suggested for the 16 pole. Anyways I think I have it figured out but halfway through I decided to check the connections and the wire has chipped through its coating on the sharp corners of the outside laminates. This resulted in little shorts through out the coils....Ill be starting over tomorrow. If this has happened to anyone else it would result in a very hot motor even if it does spin....

@laserjo thanks for the idea of using 2 housings. I'd like to get it into one. Ill have to split some of the laminates off and put some more room between the commutators and laminates.

Thinking about using the extra motor housings for a 10, 12 or 20 pole motor using 5-6 plexiglass circular cut outs and drilling out spaces for the wire and maybe some capacitors. Those machines look much more interesting... I like the quad pentagon design. Cant decide which ones I like best...maybe in time I will get to test them all!

Hello Warrensk,

Ok, Warren, going for a 16 poles is pretty much a risk...without making any of the smaller structured poles motors prior...like a 3 or 5 poles.

You make mistakes that you would have learned by doing it a small scale first, and less cost on your end. And I understand your desires to get bigger machines running...but unfortunately that is the only way of learning and getting the practice and experience.

Now, like Laserjo mentioned, you DO have too little space between commutators and rotor core...or what we call the "Neck"...you have none, and that would not allow space for the upper coil wires, or horizontal running wires...and they WILL DO build up, as you overlap them on top of each others.
Now, the P16 is nothing more than a P5 EXTENDED TO MORE POLES...That is why you should understand the main principle before...then you will "see" it very simple.

Member Turion (Dave) have build many motors before starting on this 16 poles, and still, I had to correct many errors he did...and He had previously made the 5 poles Radio Shack Motor...

[IMG][/IMG]

This is the only Diagram I have related to a 16 poles...and here Brushes are not shown, but only their positioning lines, where Green are Generator and Orange are the Motor Brushes. This is a Four Stator, Four Brushes top, four bottom System. And this Motor here will turn CCW when looking at it like picture shows.

Pairs P2 and P10 will be firing here...based on Commutator Elements and Brushes positioned at the Orange Intermittent Line, is written on Diagram.

And EVERYTHING DOES MATTERS here...Brush Positioning, Magnets Positioning...Elements at Commutator related to their Pairs positioning, etc,etc...


Regards, and please let Us know if this helped you out.


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Hello and Welcome

Hello!

This is my first post in this forum and at first I want to thank you all for your great work that you do here. The stage of development is to advanced for me, so I start with a beginners question. I am about to build my first asymmetrical machine (toy motor), but one thing is still unclear to me: where is the input and where is the output of the motor?

There is one picture that shows that input and output are diagonal to each other and same polarities are on one side respectively.
--> Directupload.net - i7diwflt.jpg

There is another picture showing the same polarities diagonal to each other and the input on the left side.
--> Directupload.net - d9mvktf7.jpg


Thanks

Christian

Hello Adversarius and Welcome!

Ok, the Input will be the set of Coils (Pairs) Directly involved in the Repulsion-Attraction Mode when feeding Machine at their previously disposed Polarity.
The difference is that once you have decided your Positive and negative side for Motor Input...then, Output will be fed Opposite Polarity to Input.

IF You are not "clear" about this...watch the first part of my video:

Asymmetrical Winding Part 1 - YouTube

It will show you the main principle, even this is a 28 Poles Bigger Motor.

The Diagonal Feed of Input-Output was ONLY for the Radio Shack Motor, or any other that have the brushes disposed like:

[IMG][/IMG]

Other Motors like the One Member Qvision is working on, have "STRAIGHT BRUSHES DESIGN" shown below:

[IMG][/IMG]

Got the difference?

Therefore I do not want you guys to confuse on this "Diagonal I/O"...that only applies to such Brushes Design.


Hope this helped You, please let me know.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[machinealive]

Hello UFO, everyone,

Did ya's miss me,.

I got home last night, we had 2 feet of snow last weekend, lots to due.
So, I have to charge the batteries, one down, two to go. I tried running it just like before, and couldn't get it to 9000 rpm. Then I had to see if fets were cooked, and they are toast, short.

So, now I am going to get John stone's driver started. Either it was the the quick switching of fets at breakdown, or avalanche mode. If the new driver doesn't get the high rpm, it would be time to start using lower voltage fets, until we get a "controlled explosion". If I only knew, I would not have shut it off the first time.

I still have the other fets hooked up and I still need to look harder at that setup, as well.

@ johnstone, The arduino only outputs 5v, and the fod3180 needs 10v, what is the easiest way to get arduino up to 12v, have it switch a fet or a 555 which switches the fod3180 at 12v. I got the fod3180 output down to 5v, but I am not sure what I should and should not due, I don't want to hurt poor old leonardo
I may just skip the opto and switch nand gate directly, I don't know. I will have this driver finished tonight or tomorrow, and will probably just use the same oscillator that I used previously. Until I figure out what to due.

[adversarius]

Thanks

Thanks prochiro and UFOpolitics for the fast answer!

I will build my first asymmetrical motor soon and then I will learn by doing.


Regards

Christian

[warrensk]

16 pole modification...

Hello all,

@UFO, I made the dual pentagon 5 pole radio shack motor with ease. Timing was a bit tricky but I felt ready to try and tackle the 16 pole...Looks like ill be backing up a bit and making sure I get some extra space there along with some kind of resin or insulation so the wires dont connect with the laminates.

Thanks for the help, Ill post if I come into any more problems...

Warrensk

[prochiro]

Voltage

@ Machinealive
Now you are just home and trying to screw things up. There is no fod3180in the circuit and the SFH617A-3 does work on five volts just fine. In fact it works on much less. Now, what to do, what to do??? Well a well rested mind like yours will think of something. Good to have you back again.

[JohnStone]

...
@ johnstone, The arduino only outputs 5v, and the fod3180 needs 10v, what is the easiest way to get arduino up to 12v, have it switch a fet or a 555 which switches the fod3180 at 12v. I got the fod3180 output down to 5v, but I am not sure what I should and should not due, I don't want to hurt poor old leonardo
I may just skip the opto and switch nand gate directly, I don't know. I will have this driver finished tonight or tomorrow, and will probably just use the same oscillator that I used previously. Until I figure out what to due....

Hi Machine!
Welcome back in workshop!
Let's discuss your question here!
JohnS

[Cornboy 555]

Work.

Hello Machine, welcome back, don't get stuck in that snow, get stuck into it instead. I have same build up of work after floods, and everything else has to wait.

Regards Cornboy.

[sampojo]

Burnt up my RS #2.

Tried to test when I was tired, late, absentmindedly wired my motor gen face-to-face with a full strength 12v system, wiring all gen outputs in series to look at the retrocharge of the same battery, loads the prime mover up a lot. I was so careful before, monitoring the PM under 8v as it climbed thru 130degF. But just focused on a voltmeter for a few seconds and didn't even have my temp gauge in hand, or watching the motor at all. DOH! but then heard the rpm falter and then the glow and smoke. couldn't get the wires off fast enough. over 150 degF. Well couple coils shot. Don't test when you are tired!

Dual pentagon Y wiring here I come on that model now!!

@Ufo, I used the 28ga RS red wire before, had 2-3 ohms per coil pair and used about 13' per coil pair. I intend to stay with the 28ga. Will I still be able to fit the same amount of wire with this style? It had to pack it on the conventional asym winding before.

[machinealive]

It's great to be home.
@prochiro, hey Dana, yes, had to get home to screw everything up. .
Well, I had those fod3180's, but I thought i liked that new circuit better, more driving amps. I didn't want to buy more opto's so i thought I would just use the ones I had.
I've got it installed now. The circuit works great at resistor output, if I get a chance tonight I will start at 12v and the car lamp. I can't wait to pulse that motor.

@ Johnstone, thank you john stone for the circuit, you didn't have to due that, but thanks. I've ordered some correct optos. But I am going to build that other circiut, with just the fod3180, driving the fets, as well.

I'm at work right now, but am going to start pulsing that motor tonight or tomorrow.

@ cornboy, Yes, lots to do, I'll take the frozen stuff anytime.

[4lpha1]

One of the commutators on my 5-pole Goldmine motor is about 4 degrees off of where it should be. It doesn't seem like it will be too detrimental; will it?