My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[warrensk]

Also, If there are people who want these motors. If someone buys me the supplies I will wind motors at a reasonable price. PM me if interested.

[sampojo]

OK may I expand to verify comprehension?

Hi UFO, un momento por favore.

Hello Sampojo,

It is quite different from the P5 as also from the P20...it's got its own "different look"...

[IMG][/IMG]

Explaining Diagram:

The way I chose to number Coil Pairs, was in a sequence at CCW(Starting by P1...)

So I would start out this question just following the winding on the motor front P-1 comm segment going to North N1(P1) and that coil half is a North coil. Is that still wound CW? (I am so used to going P-1 comm segment to south pole, that it makes my brain hurt to switch...) Since you must wind the south coil halves first, I must start now from the rear comm segment. Now I think my brain is going to explode...

I only set the Pairs at "work" related to brush contact not to populate too much diagram, avoiding confusion...

As I see it, each pole will have 1 South winding (at the bottom) and 2 edges of a North Pole, one from each side. Each coil pair should still split the wire length at the usual half way point. I have to find a way to figure out how much wire to use without winding half the motor only to find out it won't fit. so I figure the single South half coil will take at least half the lower part of a Pole. Is that a good guess?

Note that the Y Patterns between Generator and Motor are NOT Opposed(Mirrored) like in the P20 Design...which makes it easier to wind them all in same sequence.

It looks like I need only 3 spools dangling at a time. I wind three south coils in a row, and then wind the first North pole that would be over the last two South poles just wound. And then I wind 1 South pole and one north pole in order around the motor? Yeah thats a lot better than 5 or 10 dangling spools Or 20 on a 20-pole

Please notice I have set the stators bisectors, as also the firing coils bisectors for Motor Action, related to rotation sense.

So it appears you are offering a tuned brush position up front with this winding pattern. Are the Brush bisectors the neutral position or is that N/A?

So Then with a tuned brush position, this motor must have a fixed +/- terminals and the motor will either be a dog or not run at all if input polarity is reversed?

Sorry about all the questions.

Thanks in advance! Happy Easter ALL

[Donald Haas]

@ Bro d
I believe you are running the motor with your monster circuit from your comments. How many fets are you using at this time if this is correct? I just have nervous jitters about running the motor until I know there is enough power to not fry the fets.
Dana

Hi Dana,
I was running this test at les than 12 volts and using just my pulse gen circuit and 2 irf740 mosfets.
At the input voltage the h wave pulses were about 70v.
It's very interesting when you adjust the feq and duty.

Sounds like you need to have a controlable input to the fets to run the motor so it can be eased in for safety's sake. The monstor held up fine at close to 2000w for me, with 2 fets.

My wires were long and some were 5A clip leads. I had 9, 12v batts hooked together in series for the 120v bulbs.

I didn't run it a long time but the fet temp stabilized at about 82F.

I share your concern about smokiing your great work.

bro d

[JohnStone]

.... just have nervous jitters about running the motor until I know there is enough power to not fry the fets...

Dana,
you will definitely need good cooling! Do not try shortcuts! CoolMOS means -> cooler than competition and not cool by touch! This technology is the utmost we can get and pay.
Im am sorry because of not urging cooling requirements from very beginning of monster driver history. It is so clear for me and I did not realize lag of knowledge within the community. Sorry

Examples:
-Those FET casings TO247 will dissipate maximum 2W without any cooling each.
- With an ocean of high end heat sinks it will dissipate 520W max. each.
- An old CPU heat sink with fan i.e. can dissipate about 70...80W. You get them at eBay for some bucks or at junk yard. Fan size minimum 80mm - better 100mm! "Arctic Cooling" is one good brand.
Given you use 2 FETs in parallel it will suffice for 63A 100% duty cycle (rough calculation). 4 FETs in parallel 83A - all values -> best case.
Hence your heat sink is an essential component and you should not start with less than CPU cooler if you intend to drive serious amps. You definitely need some spare cooling capacity in case of overload.
- Use heat transfer grease!

You might want to perform a smooth run in for safety purpose.

Setup:
-Run H4 bulb (both filaments in parallel) loaded from 12V 100% duty.
-Check for absence of oscuillations
-Check for abnormal heat
-Add other H4 bulbs for increasing amps
-Check for abnormal heat
-Run setup more than 5 Minutes up to heat sink temperature to stabilize.

- Hook your motor as load
- Start with low duty cycle
- run setup more then 5 Minutes
- Check for abnormal heat
- increase duty cycle by 10%
- repeat run tests above

Following the procedure above anybody can determine switching capacity of his special setup.

Please note: Heat calculations are very difficult to perform and unreliable because there are so many parameters not being stable. Hence -> smooth run in! Else: Call "Kentucky Fried FETs" for membership .

JS

[Donald Haas]

I confess to not understand the circuit. The FET circuit seems to be incomplete. Please enlighten us
JS

Hi John,

I attempted to post a thorough response but it is not showing.

Let the reader assume that the fet is being used to run the motor with pulses.

The pos of the power supply being split out to the charge batt neg and the lead from the drain side of the motor to the diode and then to the pos terminal of the charge batt, will charge the batt by extracting enough of the inductive spike to do so.

Can you see that the pos from the powering batt is split?
At low voltage, (9v input for example) one can find a sweet spot for charging the batt, by adjusting the duty cycle.

I was just seeing a 300v very short spike while running at 12.5v input.
When I lowered the input voltage to 9v the batt began to charge much faster. Fasinating and addictive. You've been warned. A dual trace on the scope shows the spike right on the sq wave turn off.

This is John Bedini-ville. I was just looking at it to consider dealing with the heat at the commutators. Initially one sees an improvement but it also invites one to much additional research.

bro d

[sampojo]

Some wire length calculations

for the 10-pole 4S/4B/4P winding project. My rotor is 1-3/4" long x 1-1/4" D and had about 100' for 22AWG wire in it. Seeing as how it had ~50% space left I am looking at an asym. winding using total wire around 150', and each coil, 15'. From my Alcatel Magnet Wire guide, 22AWG is 16ohm/1000'. I measured about 2 ohms on the symmetric coil before, so things are within error limits. So each asym. coil will have ~.3ohms (forget trying to measure with my cheap DVMs). Almost tempted to go to 24AWG, kinda concerned about the amp draw. I guess I will be limited to 12v motor? Would higher voltages be unlikely, burning it up? Kinda think I want to stay at least the same awg as the symmetric used, hoping that this motor might get decent energy return and it might be a good prime mover...

Pardon me for thinking out loud, Let me know if something is way off base
TIA

[Ufopolitics]

Winding the P10 Quad Penta...

Hi UFO, un momento por favore.

Your "Spanish-Talian" Fusion is amazing...
"un momento" is Spanish...
"Favore" sounds more like "Italian"...

So I would start out this question just following the winding on the motor front P-1 comm segment going to North N1(P1) and that coil half is a North coil. Is that still wound CW? (I am so used to going P-1 comm segment to south pole, that it makes my brain hurt to switch...) Since you must wind the south coil halves first, I must start now from the rear comm segment. Now I think my brain is going to explode...

Don't switch "nada"...just do it the same way you have been doing it...
Starts by ALL SOUTH Coils first, the thing here is that there are numbered to their belonging Norths...so you will have to manage to keep them organized and do not mixed them.
The Pentagon shape is actually virtual my friend...I do it in order that you guys distinguish the difference between the Spiral of Pairs and this "Pentagon" Patterns...As Norths are not "blue"...nor South are Red...

The Protocol designs in all this geometrical volumes/shapes/colors...are all virtual my dear friend...I have chosen them in order to teach you guys for easier understanding and communication...a better "Convention" as to differentiate them "seeing" them from their magnetic structural patterns.

As I see it, each pole will have 1 South winding (at the bottom) and 2 edges of a North Pole, one from each side. Each coil pair should still split the wire length at the usual half way point. I have to find a way to figure out how much wire to use without winding half the motor only to find out it won't fit. so I figure the single South half coil will take at least half the lower part of a Pole. Is that a good guess?

Excellent guess!

You will have a Total of Ten South Coils (that will define the Two Small Pentagons at the Inner Layer) each one wrapping around One Pole (you called them "edges")...S1,S3,S5,S7 and S9 will define the First Inner SOUTH Pentagon...Then S2,S4,S6,S8 and S10 will do the other SOUTH Inner Pentagon...

BUT...again...the Pentagons are just a Virtual Image for you guys to"see"/understand drawing...when it comes to winding you could just do them continuously from S1 to S10...just have to make sure the corresponding Norths are attached to their mating South Coils.

It looks like I need only 3 spools dangling at a time. I wind three south coils in a row, and then wind the first North pole that would be over the last two South poles just wound. And then I wind 1 South pole and one north pole in order around the motor? Yeah thats a lot better than 5 or 10 dangling spools Or 20 on a 20-pole

The way you choose to maintain the "order" is up to you...

So it appears you are offering a tuned brush position up front with this winding pattern. Are the Brush bisectors the neutral position or is that N/A?

So Then with a tuned brush position, this motor must have a fixed +/- terminals and the motor will either be a dog or not run at all if input polarity is reversed?

Yes, I am offering a Specific Rotation Sense (CCW) here, with a Specific tuned (Not Neutral) for best Motor Performance.

Neutral Positioning will be where N1 (P1) / N6 (P6) and S1 / S6 BISECTORS, would be EXACTLY at the Four Stator Gaps between N-S

Like:

[IMG][/IMG]


Now here, if you reverse polarity N1-N6 will become S1-S6...as S1-S6 will become N1-N6...then rotation will change to CW...then you will have to adjust a "better timing" for CW Rotation by getting Coils Bisectors closer to Stators where repulsion will be at critical angle, by moving brushes further more CCW.(opposite to where I had them originally)

Note that brushes are right on center of commutator element at Interaction Coils.

When You set the "MAX Timing Adjust" for a dedicated rotation...reversing polarity could bring "unexpected results"..., where more likely, motor will lock when rotor coils south bisector and north from stators (as the other way around) meet while being energized and not disconnected.

Sorry about all the questions.

Thanks in advance! Happy Easter ALL

No problem...have your Credit Card ready...I will overheat it...

Please do not explode your brain...we need it to be in "Top Shape"!!

Regards and Happy Easter


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Hello Warrensk,

Hello all

@UFO,

Is there a better winding diagram for the 16 pole as a generator? I am unsure if there is a key difference in winding a rotor as a generator vs a motor. I will be winding a 20 pole 1000 watt motor soon too.

Warrensk

Hello Warrensk,

There is one Dedicated Generator Concept that I have displayed for this Asymmetrical Systems. (does not means it is the "only one" though) It applies to every structure...and it consists in fragmenting Motor Coils in as many "Sub Coils" as your pole configuration will allow.

On Drawing below it refers to a 16 poles, since Motor Coils are wrapped around Four Poles (4X4=16 on the 360º Quadrant) and based on a Four Brush System. (it was for that chinese Scooter motor...the Razor MY

[IMG][/IMG]

...as there are different ways to connect them together (between sub-coils)...


[IMG][/IMG]

I will be winding a 20 pole 1000 watt motor soon too.

If you have such a great Motor (I would like to know which motor it is, please...)...and you intent to use it as a Prime Mover for a dedicated generator...I would wind it with a 20 pole Quad Pentagon Design.

The Pentagon design offers very low Amperage draw...as very high torque and speed...perfect and very suitable for that purpose!
The Spiral of Pairs is a very strong motor...but it does draw high amperage to achieve such torque.

Regards and hope you understood all this ...as it is explained in better detail on previous pages...when I was Teaching a Member here how to make it on his 16 poles Razor Scooter motor.


Ufopolitics

[MasterBlaster]

Longer shaft

Hello @4lpha1

Here I have replaced original shorter shaft with a longer shaft

https://www.dropbox.com/s/f0ckqfkh2r...2011.52.18.jpg

@lightworker,

How did you fix the longer shaft to the laminated rotor body?

Regards.

MB

[warrensk]

16 pole generator

Hello all,

@UFO

I plan on rewinding my 16 pole as a generator with a little bit bigger wire in it...i think I have awg 26 on there. I finally got the bolts sitting right so the rotor doesnt rub on them anymore at certain speeds. It is a 250 watt casing...I just feel the awg 26 wire is a little to small and would be better if it was awg 20...

Something ive noticed with my motor so far is when it hits a certain speed with a pulsed input frequency and a cap bank on the output in series....the cap bank will charge up higher than the input voltage and start going even faster. During this phenomenon my amp reading goes nuts and goes to NEGATIVE 5 amps in some cases....Not sure if this is actually right....so I will be doing further testing. Ive had the cap bank charge up to 21 volts before with a 13.8 volt input in parallel. This only happens again at very specific frequencies and also seems to depend on the speed of the motor as the pulsed input frequency is applied.Very interesting indeed. I kind of think of these motors as rectifiers of electricity, in the sense of "distilling" the hot from the cold....

Any thoughts on what to do with this "cold" side? I believe it to be the constant emf generated from his generators back in the day that tesla was using for his tesla coils....what happens when a tesla coil is run only off of this kind of electricity? I think this is where things may be getting weird and why no one has been able to replicate some of the things tesla described. We currently use AC in tesla coils....which can generate the same resonant properties but pulsed DC COLD electricity would do some rather more interesting things i think...

The 20 pole is a 1000 watt my1020 scooter motor. I will be doing the quad pentagons design. I want to use this motor as as prime mover...(might be installing it on a bike this summer) I will be testing the 20 pole 1000 watt dual pentagon motor more as a resonant cold electric generator of some sorts too. Many things to experiment and build now!

SO, as for the 16 pole generator...I will be wrapping a coil around each pole of the 4 poles per pair? I am imagining the red/blue rectangles to be each their own coil. Please correct me if i am wrong, I will be looking through the thread again for more info.

Also I assume having the generator coils in parallel will give higher amperage, lower voltage and in series will give higher voltage lower amperage...is there one that is more efficient as a power source?

Thanks again UFO and everyone else for contributing to this awesome thread.

warrensk

[JohnStone]

Hi Dana,
I was running this test at les than 12 volts and using just my pulse gen circuit and 2 irf740 mosfets.
At the input voltage the h wave pulses were about 70v.
It's very interesting when you adjust the feq and duty.

Sounds like you need to have a controlable input to the fets to run the motor so it can be eased in for safety's sake. The monstor held up fine at close to 2000w for me, with 2 fets.

My wires were long and some were 5A clip leads. I had 9, 12v batts hooked together in series for the 120v bulbs.

I didn't run it a long time but the fet temp stabilized at about 82F.

I share your concern about smokiing your great work.

bro d

I refer to this detail.

I know that semiconductors can be used out of any spec and different than intended. Else suggest please how to complete it. FETs have G, S, D legs . G is the control leg.
Where am I wrong?
JS

[JohnStone]

....
Something ive noticed with my motor so far is when it hits a certain speed with a pulsed input frequency and a cap bank on the output in series....the cap bank will charge up higher than the input voltage and start going even faster. During this phenomenon my amp reading goes nuts and goes to NEGATIVE 5 amps in some cases....Not sure if this is actually right....so I will be doing further testing. Ive had the cap bank charge up to 21 volts before with a 13.8 volt input in parallel. This only happens again at very specific frequencies and also seems to depend on the speed of the motor as the pulsed input frequency is applied. Very interesting indeed. I kind of think of these motors as rectifiers of electricity, in the sense of "distilling" the hot from the cold........

Very interesting indeed! Did you regard for resonance effects? The reactive power in a tank circuit is told to be usable under certain circumstances while originating from HER and solely from HER!
Rotoverter guys add special extraction circuits separating backlash from extracting side. You might have hit a sweet spot where your motor performs accidently this correct timing for switching reactive power.
If you have knowledge of lamda/4 aereals you know that you have voltage node (top - no current) and current node (bottom - no voltage). Transferrred to your tank circuit this is true as well.
Cold electricity is told to occure if you insert an adapted impedance just to the place of current node. (remeber Smith, Grey, Tesla ...)
Then you have 10% of your voltage but full (reactive) current and full brightness and cold light AND free power - a gift from HER.
This fact mentioned above can be understood if we apply the notion of T. Bearden who states that electrons are not - and never were - pushed by battery voltage but are being energized by longitudinal waves (those are free!). Switching voltage ON performs as valve trigger only but energizing electron via longitudinal wave. Then electrons travel leaving their hiding places (@copper -> 10^-19 seconds delay) freely like little fueled motor boats. Exactly this fact seems to happen in current node while other destructive effects being absent. Energizing by longitudinal wave but no hot current flowing back to battery in order to perform its destructive task.
As I am restriced in building setups now I study some items from very beginning. Some days ago I came across just those facts mentioned above.

I do not claim to have understood facts mentioned above but I feel there is some truth in it, explains lots of OU setups and deserves to be watched - at UFO motors as well.

Those of you having a strong nervous system you might study documents linked below. For educated engineers it is worse than horror scenarious You were warned!
http://www.neophysicslabs.com/data/D..._knowledge.pdf
http://panacea-bocaf.org/files/RE-OU-v6_1.pdf
Please note that rotoverer is a completely different machine than UFO motor. Nevertheless some basic physical facts might surface in both setups as they comprise a native and general truth within creation.
Not the motors themselves comprise the source of possible OU but those motors (or other high effitiency setups) are the cradle where it surfaces. All OU effects require a high efficiency "cradle" where it can be grown up. Else NADA! Hence: Please do not get deviated from building your high effitiency UFO motors / generators!
Do not imagine OU circuits to be monolitic in nature. They are composed from a high effitiency cradle in order to attract HER, there is a stage where you caress HER and there is a stage where you receive HER gift.
JS

[Donald Haas]

I refer to this detail.

I know that semiconductors can be used out of any spec and different than intended. Else suggest please how to complete it. FETs have G, S, D legs . G is the control leg.
Where am I wrong?
JS

Please forgive me John.

I should have written 1 = G.
I found what looked like a mosfet symbol (to me) in Target and failed to remember that it is Gate and not Base with a mosfet.

Thanks for pointing out the mistake.

I will strive to be more correct.

bro d

[sampojo]

Warren, generator info

here is what I have so far

Ufo explains motor vs. generator diffs, coil capacitance P38 post 1139

Generator explained codeboundfuture P41 post 1228 Ufo 1229 "Fractal Magnetic Patterns"
winding explained P41 Post 1227

Ufo restates winding types for motor-generator construction p47 post 1384

Ufo starts to layout groundwork for motor generator combination to produced electricity OU, recommendes elongated generator, robust windings, 4-element, wound stators too? P43p1385

Machinealive starts Asymmetrical generator construction, lays out Imperial coil design P114p3396

Ufopolitics corrects Machinealive PROVIDES GENERATOR WINDING DIAGRAM AND INSTRUCTIONS P114p3398

Ufopolitics provides details about converting the imperial motor winding to a generator winding P111p3301

Generator sub-coil volts/amps/windingdiscussion with prochiro. P67p1981

Generator Connecting subcoils in parallel or series changes performance according to needs. P67p1987

[Donald Haas]

corrected splitting the positive cct

Please forgive me John.

I should have written 1 = G.
I found what looked like a mosfet symbol (to me) in Target and failed to remember that it is Gate and not Base with a mosfet.

Thanks for pointing out the mistake.

I will strive to be more correct.

bro d

Hi JohnStone,

I attempted to correct the cct. New links below.

bro d


https://www.dropbox.com/s/diqp9di4ia...OSITIVE.T3001A

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wwla2pn1r1...20POSITIVE.pdf