My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[prochiro]

Imperial basic measurments

Hello UFO

I do not know either your resistance per Pair (average)

Measuring Ohms from front brush to rear brush is an average of (0.7)Ohms. This should be 1/2 pair.

First, run Motor straight from your 36V battery bank, (Use a 50 Amp Rated Switch or Higher...Do NOT use Contact Blades Switch!) feeding P1 and P15 Parallel...leave output Gates P8-P22 Open.

This runs at 2650 RPM and 14 Amps.

Second, run Motor straight from 36 V Bank BUT only feeding P15.

This runs at 2325 RPM and 12 to 13 amps.(Bouncing between the two)

Brushes are lined up straight.

Let me know this readouts before you proceed testing with this pulser-set up, from my diagram.

I am waiting for your reply...


Dana

[Ufopolitics]

My Opinion...

Hello UFO

Hello Prochiro,

Measuring Ohms from front brush to rear brush is an average of (0.7)Ohms. This should be 1/2 pair.

Ok that's good, however do not understand your\last (underlined by me) statement...
The measurement from brush to brush in a Gate gives you the Pair total value, not 1/2 a Pair...we can not actually measure 1/2 a pair, cause we don't have a derive between N-S Coils junction in the Pair...
More likely, I just, did not understand what you meant...cause you know this perfectly well...

This runs at 2650 RPM and 14 Amps.

Dana, that's way too low RPM's...for straight both Pairs-Gates in Parallel at 36 V...
Since your resistance is Ok, then, I am sure you have a problem with Brushes alignment/timming FOR SURE.
My Motor does 4800-5200 "easy" with those connections and voltage....as also Machine Allive's Imperial.

This runs at 2325 RPM and 12 to 13 amps.(Bouncing between the two)

See, that's an "uneven" reading there...it is impossible that turning off Half Quadrant (180º)...Machine only reduces by 325 RPM's...So, here is the final verdict...
Something is definitively wrong with P1 Gate, either one of the brushes (I would say-must probably- the one side we modify) are not pressing due to a bad centered alignment with shaft/commutator...then spring is not really pushing it the way it should...
That... or they are not aligned properly catching maybe one third of commutator per contact...

Do something...Try feeding JUST P1...with same voltage and see what RPM's you get...

If P1 would be fully contacting...then you would get the 5000 + RPM's...and for sure a higher amperage...

I am waiting for your reply...


Dana

I was waiting for your Resulting data...and here it is my answer...ASAIPC (As Soon As I Possibly Could, new "abbreviated slang")...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Commutator Gaps...

Howdy UFO, All,
Has it been determined that the comm. gaps need to be widened?
If so, how much? Also, every gap or just the trailing gap when 2 segs.
are jumpered together?
I can make some progress if comm. gaps dont need to be cut.
Thanx much, jw

Hello Jeffy,

I did spread mines with a 1/64 Dremel carbide disc...and you Do it only on the gap separating each dual joint element.

It does reduces sparking...it does makes commutator run cooler...and finally it does reduces amperage...

The bad news are that the "differences" in all the above parameters, are not in such a Great Measure though...for the "kind" of work this is...hard, long and risky...

To do this job you should make sure you cover real good and strong material (at least cardboard, not just tape) your windings...'
PLUS...You better be very handy with that tool...and you know how to control/drive disc in case it slips off...Ok?

In milli seconds you could ruin your machine Commutator-Windings...so be careful if you are going for it...


IMO...Don't do it...wait till someone like Dana (Prochiro) gets Imperial properly running with Two or Four Monster Pulsers...

Anyways you could always do that job later on...

Your decision here...


Regards



Ufopolitics

[jeffy39]

comm. gaps

Howdy UFO, Thanx for reply.
Machinist friend still busy with his wife.
She had emergency gallbladder surgery.
Was hoping to put arm. in lathe and mill (? correct term?)
the slots. Neater and hopefully, no 'oops' events.
Best regards, later, jw

[prochiro]

Hello again UFO
I do not know why I wrote that statement about 1/2 coil, I do know it is both N and S. An air bubble I guess.

P1 all by itself does 2380 RPM using 14 amps. This does not make sense, judging from what you said I should be getting. Any other ideas?
Dana

[Ufopolitics]

No, it does not make sense...

Hello again UFO
I do not know why I wrote that statement about 1/2 coil, I do know it is both N and S. An air bubble I guess.

P1 all by itself does 2380 RPM using 14 amps. This does not make sense, judging from what you said I should be getting. Any other ideas?
Dana

Hey there Dana,

Nope, it doesn't make sense at all...

But one thing am sure off...is that when you turn both Gates in parallel, they MUST ADD UP...not remain the same...not increase by just a couple of hundred RPM's either...

[IMG][/IMG]
Like I said before...P1-P15 divide Quadrant in Two, (same as P8-P22, but in different side of Quadrant) therefore feeding just either one alone...means you are running with "Half Rotor" going...

So here You are getting an OK reading from each Gate independently...but they do not add up...some how, One (I would say the stronger one) is canceling the second one...

Do me a favor Dana...disconnect P1/P15 and do same test but, with P8/P22 please...
Don't change the voltage polarity...keep same as they are...so rotation goes same way.
Feed them first Independently at a time and take RPM's of each...

Then add them in Parallel connection and see what they show...

Let's see what happens..


Ok, I will wait to see what's up...


Ufopolitics

[Hitby13kw]

Imperial - It's alive !!!

Just finished putting together an Imperial, did some quick tests,
thought we should list the results to see if the team felt they were in line.

The voltage was supplied from 1 to 4 LA batteries in series connected to
1, 2 or all 4 poles in parallel - resulting RPM listed.

- - - - - - 12V - 24V - 36V - 48V
P1 - - - - 660 - 1520 - 2340 - 3100
P1&15 - - 755 - 1615 - 2450 - 3264
P1-15
P8-22 - - 805 - 1625 - 2495 - 3330

Plan to do further tests to include current,
wanted to say It's alive - Bwa Ha Ha some views can be seen https://www.dropbox.com/sh/08aojs11i0s85u8/EUhNv_L3B1

Hitby13kw

[Cornboy 555]

Congrats.

Just finished putting together an Imperial, did some quick tests,
thought we should list the results to see if the team felt they were in line.

The voltage was supplied from 1 to 4 LA batteries in series connected to
1, 2 or all 4 poles in parallel - resulting RPM listed.

- - - - - - 12V - 24V - 36V - 48V
P1 - - - - 660 - 1520 - 2340 - 3100
P1&15 - - 755 - 1615 - 2450 - 3264
P1-15
P8-22 - - 805 - 1625 - 2495 - 3330

Plan to do further tests to include current,
wanted to say It's alive - Bwa Ha Ha some views can be seen https://www.dropbox.com/sh/08aojs11i0s85u8/EUhNv_L3B1

Hitby13kw

Hello Hitby13kw, that's great, congratulations on giving birth, i am just curious about what gauge wire you have used, and what you have used for wedges, also what resistance are your coil pairs?

I know it's a lot of what's, it's just i will be doing that part soon.

Regards Cornboy.

[prochiro]

Hello UFO

Hitby13kw
The voltage was supplied from 1 to 4 LA batteries in series connected to
 1, 2 or all 4 poles in parallel - resulting RPM listed.
 
           - - - - -  - 12V - 24V - 36V       - 48V
 P1       - - - - 660    - 1520    - 2340     - 3100
P1&15 - - 755 -    1615    - 2450     - 3264
P1-15
P8-22 - - 805    - 1625    - 2495     - 3330

It seems as though Hitby13kw has about the same numbers. I have not tested P8 or P22 yet but maybe it is not the motor. I am using #4 Gage regular battery cable and although the cables are not real short, there is no excessive length. I am using a serial battery setup of 6 volt gulf cart batteries and full charge is 40 volts or more. Does not seem anything else is out of bounds. I will do the other two wires but believe they will be the same.
Dana

[prochiro]

Hello UFO

This thing has me bugged. I wonder if after both lines pass thru coils, (the stronger or the first coil to fire of the two lines) is somehow feeding back or causing a resistance of the second line. To test this I have put diodes on both lines on the exit before they go to neg. I can not test this out until later when my wife gets up. You know how they like that beauty sleep and if it is interrupted, the whole thing will come crumbling down.
Dana

[Hitby13kw]

Hello Hitby13kw, that's great, congratulations on giving birth, i am just curious about what gauge wire you have used, and what you have used for wedges, also what resistance are your coil pairs?

Regards Cornboy.

Cornboy,

Happy to reply to your 3 questions;
.wire gauge - went one smaller than UFO, I used 19AWG (had it onhand)
.for wedges, we are using 3.5 inch bits of 5/16 dowel
.as to the resistance of my coil pairs,
.. Very close to what prochiro/Dana stated in post 4337
Measuring Ohms from front brush to rear brush an average of (0.6) Ohms.

Now the bonus answer, my coil pairs have 15 turns per coil (30 turns per pair)
being that I used 5/16 dowel as my wedges there is room for a few more turns,
might try 20 per coil next time.

Hitby13kw

[Cornboy 555]

Great.

Cornboy,

Happy to reply to your 3 questions;
.wire gauge - went one smaller than UFO, I used 19AWG (had it onhand)
.for wedges, we are using 3.5 inch bits of 5/16 dowel
.as to the resistance of my coil pairs,
.. Very close to what prochiro/Dana stated in post 4337
Measuring Ohms from front brush to rear brush an average of (0.6) Ohms.

Now the bonus answer, my coil pairs have 15 turns per coil (30 turns per pair)
being that I used 5/16 dowel as my wedges there is room for a few more turns,
might try 20 per coil next time.

Hitby13kw

Thanks Hitby13kw, good luck with the testing, look forward to it!

Regards Cornboy.

[Cornboy 555]

No crumbling allowed.

Hello UFO

This thing has me bugged. I wonder if after both lines pass thru coils, (the stronger or the first coil to fire of the two lines) is somehow feeding back or causing a resistance of the second line. To test this I have put diodes on both lines on the exit before they go to neg. I can not test this out until later when my wife gets up. You know how they like that beauty sleep and if it is interrupted, the whole thing will come crumbling down.
Dana

Hello DANA, please don't come crumbling down,we need you.

Just curious , have you put a load across the output brushes yet?

Warm Regards Cornboy.

[Ufopolitics]

That IS A Beautiful Machine!

Just finished putting together an Imperial, did some quick tests,
thought we should list the results to see if the team felt they were in line.

The voltage was supplied from 1 to 4 LA batteries in series connected to
1, 2 or all 4 poles in parallel - resulting RPM listed.

- - - - - - 12V - 24V - 36V - 48V
P1 - - - - 660 - 1520 - 2340 - 3100
P1&15 - - 755 - 1615 - 2450 - 3264
P1-15
P8-22 - - 805 - 1625 - 2495 - 3330

Plan to do further tests to include current,
wanted to say It's alive - Bwa Ha Ha some views can be seen https://www.dropbox.com/sh/08aojs11i0s85u8/EUhNv_L3B1

Hitby13kw

Hello Hitby13kw,

Great work!...That IS, A Beautiful Machine!

And yes, thanks for setting a Chart here as far as keeping the Data organized.
This will be great for troubleshooting and analyzing your Machines.

I will be loading later on tonight a video of this runs...same as yours, right now I am charging batteries...and prepping set Up with four switches, and I am joining all positives together and switching on Negatives.

We need to keep track here of Three Main Parameters.

RPM's, Voltage Source/Voltage drawn and Amperage draw over time.

The great thing about this Asymmetric Machines...is that they would go on a very wide range of Voltage levels, I am running now Imperial with five batteries (over 60V when fully charged). and I am sure it will take easy a 72 Volt Bank.


Your Resistance is great!...don't change it!...on further testing we will need very low resistance values.

Now you are getting (like Dana wrote) about same parameters as Dana...it could be timing or whatever it is the reason...we will find it...\


Regards


Ufopolitics

[prochiro]

Hello UFO
I added the two diodes on output of P1 and P15 and ran them parallel with 2540 RPM and 13 Amps.
I ran the same setup with 60 volts and she did 3670 RPM and used 46 Amps. But she was screaming while running smooth and scared the cats.
Dana