My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[Ufopolitics]

[QUOTE=lerameur;230667]Hello Mr UFOPOLITICS.
Good to see you and thank you for the nice welcome.

All the motor shown have only two magnets inside (stator) and not 4 like your diagram. [QUOTE]

Lerameur,

You need to build smaller prototypes first...so you get the full understanding of this...and I meant small, in poles number, not overall machine size...

Or at least my friend, read more , much more about building smaller types.

If You would have made some...you will know it will also work with Two Stators, by just twisting brushes a bit...

So what you are saying is to take the 3HP motor.

Remove the commutator from the 2HP and put it on the 3HP ?
If I do that then I wont have enough shaft left to stick outside, How do you guys go about that? I was thinking of keeping the shaft of the 3HP and switching the lamination from the 2HP. Not sure if its a good idea and if its possible...

these commutators are a Bit$$$ to remove any hints on how to remove them without damaging.



Joel

According to the picture you have shown...you will have room to fit another commutator easy and bearing on top on the longer shafted one.

You will have to make a specific steel plate with a "U" groove that slides/fits very tight on shaft...and seats at comm bottom evenly , to pull it out from that plate with an automotive steering wheel Pulley. Plate must have at least a 90º bent side so it will not bend...or be thicker than 1-/4 inch. You realize will have to clean all wire first from commutator to armature core...

Tool to Remove Commutator - YouTube

Please Joel, do more reading...and build some nice little RS Motors first...Three and Five Poles...then come back to this bigger project...everything is written on this thread.

Regards


Ufopolitics

[Cornboy 555]

It's Wet.

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Hello everyone, it's raining here so had a little time to work on my interpretation, of UFO's MAG3 design.

Finally got to fit the stator cores, they had to be hand filed into the housing, ( a mission on there own ).

If any one has any questions, i will gladly answer.

Warm Regards Cornboy.

[sampojo]

Mag3 looks like a winner

Hey cornboy, that thing will really put out some RE! Some great metal working there. Are you going to use an arduino-monster-pulser set up too? This will be real interesting. I plan to learn a lot watching you capture the RE activity from electro-magnet stators too. What gauge wire are you using? Looks dimensionally a bit larger than the Imperial. You made your own rotor, right? When I watched Ufo's vortex rotor core video, I Kinda thought you would notice!

I couldn't get started on my 10-pole last night, after a week of work, hadda have a nap. Still woke up early evening, wife and daughter still at coach bag bingo. But came time to study the machining needed for my motor body, but instead I couldn't stop myself from cleaning up N. Tesla's patents Ufo has used. Nice clean graphics etc. so I thought I would share them. I only had enough room for one on my forum space so I put them on my dropbox too.

This forced be to get the account there and I hope you all can see them.

N.Tesla Patent 390,721

N.Tesla Patent 390,414

[Cornboy 555]

Testing.

Hey cornboy, that thing will really put out some RE! Some great metal working there. Are you going to use an arduino-monster-pulser set up too? This will be real interesting. I plan to learn a lot watching you capture the RE activity from electro-magnet stators too. What gauge wire are you using? Looks dimensionally a bit larger than the Imperial. You made your own rotor, right? When I watched Ufo's vortex rotor core video, I Kinda thought you would notice!

I couldn't get started on my 10-pole last night, after a week of work, hadda have a nap. Still woke up early evening, wife and daughter still at coach bag bingo. But came time to study the machining needed for my motor body, but instead I couldn't stop myself from cleaning up N. Tesla's patents Ufo has used. Nice clean graphics etc. so I thought I would share them. I only had enough room for one on my forum space so I put them on my dropbox too.

This forced be to get the account there and I hope you all can see them.

N.Tesla Patent 390,721

N.Tesla Patent 390,414

Hello Sampojo, hoping for lots of reverse flow RE , yep from rotor and stators, most of the testing to be done, will be on the uses of that.

It looks like i might be able to get my hands on an old motorcycle Dyno, and modify it to test electric motors, maybe.

Wire gauge in rotor will, at this stage, be 1.2 mm, gauge and winding pattern on stators is still undecided. The rotor is 200mm DIA and 200mm long, built from scratch.

I certainly did notice UFO's video, post #4571.

Thanks for sharing your work on the patents, Sampojo.

Warm Regards Cornboy.

[prochiro]

Monster driver X4

Hello All
I have combined all four Monster fet drivers on one board and am working on the same thing for the first half of the circuit.
Here are some pictures.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/evunpwu5h7...ink1%20001.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/crxhberubl...ink1%20003.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/x2sajzstgb...ink1%20004.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/dtpn0hrs6q...ink1%20005.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/16s8ew31n4...ink1%20006.jpg



I have the DuoPulser tonight for you all to try on the smaller motors and do some tests. Set frequency to 30 for best performance and then adjust duty to make her go..... If anyone need help setting up the arduino let me know.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jjvgp0xfds...blink2ver1.ino



Dana

[Ufopolitics]

Nice!!

Hello All
I have combined all four Monster fet drivers on one board and am working on the same thing for the first half of the circuit.
Here are some pictures.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/evunpwu5h7...ink1%20001.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/crxhberubl...ink1%20003.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/x2sajzstgb...ink1%20004.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/dtpn0hrs6q...ink1%20005.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/16s8ew31n4...ink1%20006.jpg



I have the DuoPulser tonight for you all to try on the smaller motors and do some tests. Set frequency to 30 for best performance and then adjust duty to make her go..... If anyone need help setting up the arduino let me know.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jjvgp0xfds...blink2ver1.ino



Dana

Hello Dana!

So glad to hear from you...now those four monsters in one package look awesome!!...beautiful!

So, please...tell us -at least- your results with the smaller dual pulser!!...c'mon man!!


You said 30 Hz?!...then play with duty?...for God sake, how many Milli-Micro Amps they need now?...

I will get soon the Arduino Uno...since Hitby13kw said it works fine...and write those nice codes.
One question though...we will not need the monster pulser to drive smaller motors...but just any low voltage oscillator would do...or even the Arduino output sent to a fast/suitable MOSFET Gate through some simple filtering right?

Excellent work friend!!


Warm regards


Ufopolitics

[prochiro]

Hello UFO
Yes that is correct, the Duopulser is just the signal and any of the fet drivers that we have used will when doubled up, drive a motor with the two inputs at different times, offset. That was sure a good idea of yours to do this. What ever motor one uses will run with two power lines as if only one is running. This also lowers fet on time so even more cool.

I will try maybe tomorrow to hook one up and give data for before and after.
Dana

[sampojo]

Monster 4x ???

Hello All
I have combined all four Monster fet drivers on one board and am working on the same thing for the first half of the circuit.
Here are some pictures.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/evunpwu5h7...ink1%20001.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/crxhberubl...ink1%20003.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/x2sajzstgb...ink1%20004.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/dtpn0hrs6q...ink1%20005.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/16s8ew31n4...ink1%20006.jpg



I have the DuoPulser tonight for you all to try on the smaller motors and do some tests. Set frequency to 30 for best performance and then adjust duty to make her go..... If anyone need help setting up the arduino let me know.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jjvgp0xfds...blink2ver1.ino



Dana

Hi Dana, you are of course blowing my mind again, as I ponder, I don't think I have seen UFO post an 8 stator machine design anywhere that would use a monster 4x driver. So lets see if I get the progression here. So I think you and John Stone and Ufo have arrived at using two FET per driver now since motor pulsing concepts have been demonstrated to use overall lower amperage, unlike Ufo's last circuit:



This circuit could not pulse coils separately, and was designed, I think, to run both motor coils in parallel, and so had to have 6 FETs. It looks like J. Stones Monster driver 5.1 version uses the two FETs. I have not been able to completely comprehend the circuit to the point of speccing out a PCB or buy components yet, and am obtuse about things like where I would hook up the arduino outputs also. Hopefully just a little more study to push me over the top... So I just want to confirm that I have some of the basics of the electronic designs right and that you are looking on to a near future application you have planned with a more powerful motor...

1. So I see no holes in the PCB.
2. Do you use a super-small bit (< 1/16") to make them?
3. Some of the copper tracks seem very small, or is it just perspective and the board may be at least 2" wide?
4. The circuit does not seem to have as many components as a Monster Driver 5.1 circuit.

I would prefer building a circuit on a PCB as opposed to a bread board. Maybe a small packet of info could be collected that we could send out.

Kogs posted a place on the My-Motors thread where you can get PCBs made cheap as Kogs has posted here

You are so close to the real deal... Great work

[Ufopolitics]

Hey Joe!

Hi Dana, you are of course blowing my mind again, as I ponder, I don't think I have seen UFO post an 8 stator machine design anywhere that would use a monster 4x driver. So lets see if I get the progression here. So I think you and John Stone and Ufo have arrived at using two FET per driver now since motor pulsing concepts have been demonstrated to use overall lower amperage, unlike Ufo's last circuit:



This circuit could not pulse coils separately, and was designed, I think, to run both motor coils in parallel, and so had to have 6 FETs. It looks like J. Stones Monster driver 5.1 version uses the two FETs. I have not been able to completely comprehend the circuit to the point of speccing out a PCB or buy components yet, and am obtuse about things like where I would hook up the arduino outputs also. Hopefully just a little more study to push me over the top... So I just want to confirm that I have some of the basics of the electronic designs right and that you are looking on to a near future application you have planned with a more powerful motor...

1. So I see no holes in the PCB.
2. Do you use a super-small bit (< 1/16") to make them?
3. Some of the copper tracks seem very small, or is it just perspective and the board may be at least 2" wide?
4. The circuit does not seem to have as many components as a Monster Driver 5.1 circuit.

I would prefer building a circuit on a PCB as opposed to a bread board. Maybe a small packet of info could be collected that we could send out.

Kogs posted a place on the My-Motors thread where you can get PCBs made cheap as Kogs has posted here

You are so close to the real deal... Great work

Hello Sampojo,

It is not a big deal at all...

Ok, so you are using Arduino to generate the Signals as per Dana Code for two Pulses with Off Times between...(Channel 1 and 2)

Then, let's say, you wanna use the simple 555 Timer chip like above diagram...to get triggered and then send a Gate Signal to FET's...I believe 555 triggers at leg 2 and discharges signal at leg 3...am I correct?...Please check on that.

So, ..all you need are two 555 Timers that are connected INDEPENDENTLY as if they were Two Separate "Mini" Monster Pulsers Modules...or two oscillators-drivers.

So, T555 (IC1) will get excited by Arduino Microprocessor Channel 1...and triggers its Leg 2 and discharges by Leg 3 to say Two nice FET's Gates in Parallel through resistances or opto's or else...so you got now Mini Monster 1 finished...

Then get the other T555 (IC2) and connect Leg 2 to Arduino Channel 2...and so on...same connection as before...from Leg3 it goes to the Gates of the OTHER TWO FET's...


You Feed FET's Source with same negative from batteries...and each two bank of FET's Drains will Pulse Channel 1 and Channel 2 of Motor Gates respectively...Positive feeds direct to Motor as to Circuit to close the loop at both.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Hitby13kw]

MAG3 = Awesome

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Cornboy,

once again my hat is off to you for the high quality of your machine work – the work you produce on rainy days is overwhelming, glad to see your still moving forward with your motor even though others on the forum tells us all that is needed is a generator head . . . .

To that end we have taken the code that prochiro (Dana) so kindly shared, stored
Duoblink2ver1 https://www.dropbox.com/s/fmwovg5wn1sy1sd/Duoblink2ver1.ino

and
Quadblink4ver2 https://www.dropbox.com/s/rle3ugl0gj...blink4ver2.ino





So there will be a duplicate copy on the net for others - and for you . . . .
Hexblink6ver1 https://www.dropbox.com/s/ugvvi8ka18vfb4c/Hexblink6ver1.ino

This should give you duty cycle and frequency adjustment for all six ports of the MAG3

Hitby13kw

[Cornboy 555]

Micro.

Well what can i say, Thanks Hitby, much appreciated, i hope one rainy day soon i will build the 6 monsters, and plug in my Micro, and see what sparks i can make.

Thanks and warm Regards,

Cornboy.

[prochiro]

@ Hitby13kw
Good deal. Have you run the Hex on the scope to see what she does. By adding two more lines, timing will show different on scope and some tweaking of timing formulas is necessary. I will be working on setting up the Duo today for a run on a smaller asymmetric motor. Thanks.
Dana

[prochiro]

@ Sampojo
That PCB board shown in the previous post is just part of the circuit. It is just the fet driver part times four.

1. We have the Arduino that gives the timing signal.

2. Then the first half of monster circuit or any other as UFO said using 555 based tech. This boosts the signal voltage, cleans up signal, protects Arduino from surges and passes signal on.

3. The last stage is the fet driver which is what you see in the picture. It is 3.5 X 12 inches and no, those lines are huge. The fet driver weight is over a pound. The small lines you see are 1/8 inch with heavy solder overlay.

I start with a 12X12 inch copper bottom PCB and mill out everything as well as drill the holes which range from 1mm down to .4mm as they are size fitted to what will go into them. This sounds hard but the program on the mill does it all. As I use vary small bits and mill vary slow, that one board you see tool 23 hours to mill out.
Well, back to work...
Dana

[Ufopolitics]

Impressive Machine My Friend!

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Hello everyone, it's raining here so had a little time to work on my interpretation, of UFO's MAG3 design.

Finally got to fit the stator cores, they had to be hand filed into the housing, ( a mission on there own ).

If any one has any questions, i will gladly answer.

Warm Regards Cornboy.

Hello Cornboy,

Nice work my Friend!...One of a kind Machine, a beautiful piece of Art!

At overall weight...it should not be even close to a steel outer frame one...

Neat Stator alignment within rotor chamber, great and beautiful brush caps...I mean, everywhere we look at it.

I know you do not like rainy days...cause they do not allow you to work/produce...but I tell You...from now on...I love Australian Rainy Days...

How advanced are you with Rotor winding?...I know many here will love to see a short video of that beauty spinning...even linear/straight feed...to hear it roaring...

Now on Stator windings(I read you were undecided how to do it...)...you could use same wire as armature pairs (that's what I wrote before)...however you should do a pretty close calculation of One Stator Pair Core Volume...versus One Pair Volume at Rotor (or even simpler...figuring just One Rotor Coil from the Pair to one Stator. Pole)..then figure out the amount of turns required to balance magnetic fields as close as possible...I can see you have plenty of room at stators for enough wire to even allow secondaries there...

Stator core area is -of course- smaller (in overall volume size) than rotor configuration, as they are different Geometries, however, at rotor, there is a lot of air gaps between poles fins...so that makes up for the solid stator core volume.

Another, even easier calculation approach:

When You start winding Rotor...say turning P1, once you have the right amount of turns/resistance like we discussed before...Now, your Machine, by having so many number of Coils/Pairs, you could afford to go at pretty low resistance values, like from 0.4 to 0.6 Ohms...however, a safe, cool running beauty would be around 0.6-0.8...but, that would be dictated by the volume it takes within rotor space...So, after you are finished winding P1 with enough room for all other pairs...take wire Off...and measure wire length, and this measurement, would be the Minimum amount of wire per two Stator Poles...however, it would not hurt at all, (and you should) if you exceed stators turns and take them closer or above 1.0 Ohm per Stator Coil.


Therefore, a "safe" and logical Ratio approach... would be to use that Rotor Pair wire length for One Stator Pole.

I know you are gonna go crazy trying all kind of possibilities here...and one of them would be to pulse by single Stator Coils and not as series connected pairs...so then you would be on the "Safe Zone"...


Warm regards


Ufopolitics

[Cornboy 555]

Hello UFO, and all, i am so flat out with planting garlic, which is my main crop, it will take probably till nearly the end of June, depending on the weather. This year's crop is a five times multiplication on last years crop, as every single clove from last year is going in the ground now.

Hopefully my beautiful Bio-Dynamic soil and my free army of soil life, will turn it into 5 plus tons to sell.

So rainy days are very precious to me, allowing me time to do my favouritest thing in the world.

The weight mass of the stator cores, all together, is almost exactly the same weight as the rotor core, ( just arsy i guess), of course i dont think the magnetic field projection will be the same.

UFO your sugestion of making the single stator cores around 1 ohm i think is the way to go.

I still havn't filed out all the excess epoxy from the rotor, you should see my w/shop bench, covered in fine white dust, this powder makes me feel ill, one of the reasons i am leaving it till last.

As i posted before, I won't do that again!!.

Not that much left to do on embodiment of motor now, will need to dismantle brush plate assemblies, and sink brush holder screws deeper into 6mm plate, and cover screw heads with epoxy.

As you know i am making this up as i go, and it just dawned on me that everything conductive must have at least 3mm clearance for spikes, especially when i test this motor with higher voltage, ie. 240V.

Thanks for your kind words, Regards Cornboy.