My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[Ufopolitics]

sorry for sounding ignorant, im a bit behind with this.

you say singular coils.
is your winding different to ufo's then ?

just a single north wind wrap, is that what you mean ?, per commutator segment.

have you tested both winds out, and found its better with singular coils ?

ive only done a small 5 pole motor, which is 2 poles wrap + 2 poles wrap, per segment.

His 'winding' is only different than mine in that he uses one single coil, instead of Pairs or Groups...the rest is exactly the same thing...two commutators, overlapped windings, upper-lower brushes...same structure, etc,etc

The First and Simpler Asymmetrical Motor exposed here more than two years ago, was based on Single Coils...a Three Pole, my First Design.

So I rather call it a DERIVATIVE from the same exact work I have exposed here.

If you want to go into single coils DERIVATIVE THREAD From The ORIGINAL HERE, and have him explain it to you, then go to:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...c-reactor.html

And expose your work there...


Thanks



Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Your analogy to electric circuit is flawed.




copied from: 6.3 - Magnetic Force and Field

I don't understand your reasoning. Two magnetic South poles repel and so do two negatively charged particles (repel).

Bistander,

While you are posting on My Thread, the wrong stuff, as I see it...I will continue to correct what you are writing here.

First, the Linked Diagram you have cited about Planet Earth is WRONG...the Geographic North Pole is the Magnetic South....and so the Geographic South is the Magnetic North...there both are North's and both South's...on that diagram...wrong sources again.

two negatively charged particles (repel).

"Two negatively charged particles" are meant STATICALLY charged...while Magnetic Fields showing Arrows means a Dynamic Flow...two completely different things.

The only way to compare "A FLOW" is through another electric flow...like Source and Drain.

Sparks are caused by potential difference or voltage. I don't know what you mean by _Negative charged end terminals_, but if the two conductors have little to no potential difference, they will not arc as they are brought together to touch.

Grab two DC Negative terminals from same source you choose...or Two AC Neutral Wires from your wall...Both represent FLOWS, not static charged, isolated particles...then touch them together...nothing happens.

Same thing should occur to two South Poles according to this reasoning...but it don't.


Ufopolitics

[Midaztouch]

ok, cheers midaz.
i think ill re-wind the mini motor, in that case. check out the difference.

do the same rules with these motors apply for wire thickness ?

as in - thick wire for rpm, and thin wire for torque ?

No one has done a thick and thin wire comparison... That I know of with these ALL North motors. Now that I've thought about it, Machinealive, did his imperial North/South wind design with a thicker wire Gauge. His motor was faster!

Have fun and give it a try. After that, you will be ready for a big motor, for sure!

Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz

[grounded]

ok, cheers midaz.
i think ill re-wind the mini motor, in that case. check out the difference.

do the same rules with these motors apply for wire thickness ?

as in - thick wire for rpm, and thin wire for torque ?

[Midaztouch]

sorry for sounding ignorant, im a bit behind with this.

Read the last 30 pages. It will help you for your adventure.

you say singular coils.
is your winding different to ufo's then ?

Yes, it's singular coils.

just a single north wind wrap, is that what you mean ?, per commutator segment.

The All North singular coils are the same size or a little bigger than the magnet... Per comm segment

have you tested both winds out, and found its better with singular coils ?

Torque is/was the main issue.

ive only done a small 5 pole motor, which is 2 poles wrap + 2 poles wrap, per segment.

That's great. You will need all the practice you can get if you decide to do a larger motor.

Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz

[grounded]

A1MoGen = Singular Coils, you get less voltage drop also.

sorry for sounding ignorant, im a bit behind with this.

you say singular coils.
is your winding different to ufo's then ?
just a single north wind wrap, is that what you mean ?, per commutator segment.

have you tested both winds out, and found its better with singular coils ?

ive only done a small 5 pole motor, which is 2 poles wrap + 2 poles wrap, per segment.

[HuntingRoss]

Don't adress me again...

Getting a little tense ?

It seems like Raul/UFO is wasting his time telling YOU the same thing, over and over ....

Ah, yes. The timing for 4 pole pairs. I remember you had something to say about that previously.

Perhaps you can comment on whether P2 is 'ON' or 'OFF' in UFO's images. And

If it is 'ON'...how many degrees need to be passed before it is 'OFF'.

Now I know you'll bluster and avoid the question. I'm just curious to see which device you employ to do so.

PS. The orange story wasn't as profound as previous ones.

Keep Hunting

mark

[sampojo]

Hunting GChilders;-)

Re: Post 7605
Sampojo

Thank you for your findings. I was hoping that you found amazing test results like Gary's "sweet spot". Was all if the timing adjustments done under No Load?

[/COLOR][/I][/B]

Yes I just look for max rpm no load, min amp draw. No way of controlling torque load consistently in my basement lab. But I don't see a lot more revealed in that. After seeing Garry's numbers, who I believe is a serious researcher, I am looking more at reproducing those numbers myself. After all it would be the mother load of free energy? Tesla's original energy multipliers he had in Wardenclyffe?

What has got me intrigued,assuming I did not miss an adjustment, is the question, "Is there a simple reason I did not see the drop-off of amperage in my motor?"

One major difference is quad stator vs. dual stator. I may either have to roll out my old radio shack conversions or make my dual stator GM motor tunable. Thats a big job.

Or get on to my Baldor 56 frame motors, which are dual stator, completely infinitely tunable.

Question for Garry: Just to confirm it appears you moved one notch off the Ufo recommended timing Position?

I guess its in his video, just need to rewatch as to whether it is before or after Ufo's recommended Top Dead Center timing mark.

[Midaztouch]

Hello Bi and everyone.
After reading a few of the recent posts I thought I'd add some food for thought. I think It was Bi who mention empty cores. I assume that means an armature leg with now wire around it. I've always had that concern but when I first started designing and winding motors there was a very popular three phase wind used on model airplane motors that was known as the LRK wind and for a number of years it remained popular and was not improved upon until some of the later day motors. the wind had stator legs left unwound between the three phases as below.
http://www.southernsoaringclub.org.z...20Diagram2.JPG
I'm not siding with anyone here but there are many things that worked about this wind. I myself don't care for it and prefer no overlapping winds as well as no winds around more than one stator / armature leg at a time. With that being said has anyone here ever tested how much magnetism is found on the outer diameter of the your armature when the brushes are energized. I think you might be surprised at how low it is compared to your field magnet. It might also be much lower than what it could be if each leg of the armature was wrapped completely around. If that's what Midas did and kept the same wind as UFO suggests with a multiple leg wind then maybe that's good. As for me, I'm still waiting to see a test including loading that shows an improvement over the OEM. Speed alone means nothing to me. I put my money on the turtle not the rabbit.
Good luck everyone
J

Sir J

Nice to see you around here again!

This is what I did with the A1MoGen design. The Singular Coils are the same size as the magnet or a little bigger for higher RPMs.
Empty Core = middle slots with no wires of the coils being energized.

[VIDEO]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0AwYKpdmYa4[/VIDEO]
Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz

[DadHav]

Weak Legs

You are wrong Ufopolitics. I have the right to free speech. Even though you may consider ancient laws unworthy, the US Constitution and First Amendment trump you. Those who seek to shut out dissenting views and limit the speech and expressions of others who disagree with them often become tyrants. Don't let this happen to you.


I went through this twice, but again for you. Yes, the 2 coil sides in the same armature slot cancel;

1 - Magnetic field for those two coil sides.

2 - Electric field for those two coil sides.

3 - No, current will still flow through those two coil sides. It has to to complete the electric circuit. And that is the problem. You have current flow through copper and associated resistance which does no work for you.

But that is exactly what you end up with with your coil pair because the inside coil sides (sharing the same slot) cancel each other magnetically. So the coil pair will behave just like the double wide coil.


I was talking about the electric dynamo. And the electric generator can be powered by hydro or wind turbines without any objectionable farting. This is the renewable energy sub forum.

I really don't want to argue with you. So just drop it. I simply saw an obvious way to improve an armature winding and posted it. You have an empty core there. Give it a try. If it works, use it and develop your own theories as to why.

bi

Hello Bi and everyone.
After reading a few of the recent posts I thought I'd add some food for thought. I think It was Bi who mention empty cores. I assume that means an armature leg with now wire around it. I've always had that concern but when I first started designing and winding motors there was a very popular three phase wind used on model airplane motors that was known as the LRK wind and for a number of years it remained popular and was not improved upon until some of the later day motors. the wind had stator legs left unwound between the three phases as below.
http://www.southernsoaringclub.org.z...20Diagram2.JPG
I'm not siding with anyone here but there are many things that worked about this wind. I myself don't care for it and prefer no overlapping winds as well as no winds around more than one stator / armature leg at a time. With that being said has anyone here ever tested how much magnetism is found on the outer diameter of the your armature when the brushes are energized. I think you might be surprised at how low it is compared to your field magnet. It might also be much lower than what it could be if each leg of the armature was wrapped completely around. If that's what Midas did and kept the same wind as UFO suggests with a multiple leg wind then maybe that's good. As for me, I'm still waiting to see a test including loading that shows an improvement over the OEM. Speed alone means nothing to me. I put my money on the turtle not the rabbit.
Good luck everyone
J

[Midaztouch]

In your video you state the motor is achieving around 150 rpm/volt.

Now whilst I don't agree fully with the concept, most on this thread are adopting rpm/watt.

On that basis, from your 20v DC PSU test -

150 rpm x 20v = 3000 rpm

3000 rpm / 420w = 7.14 rpm/w (no load)

Not allowing for frictional losses and so on. With a sprocket ratio of 3:1 your rear wheel will be 2.38 rpm/w (no load).

Hunting

mark

Mark

Don't adress me again... A 16awg coil wire got stuck = HIGH FRICTION = high AMPs, between the rotor and magnets during transport on my Bicycle. (That's why I said "I can show you 150 RPMs... ANYTIME and its CONCRETE", in my video.)

Me going to the Meiwa Electric was all about A1MoGen & Asymmetric Motors on a DC power supply for validity...The motors work fine on a DC Power Supply if the timing is correct.

Your a waste of time for me! You never listen or pay attention to anything.

Midaz


It seems like Raul/UFO is wasting his time telling YOU the same thing, over and over ....
To avoid the conversation about torque, RPMs and voltage drop with the Singular Coils = A1Mogen -vs- pair coils

[HuntingRoss]

Quick up date on the A1MoGen EV build with battery configurations.

In your video you state the motor is achieving around 150 rpm/volt.

Now whilst I don't agree fully with the concept, most on this thread are adopting rpm/watt.

On that basis, from your 20v DC PSU test -

150 rpm x 20v = 3000 rpm

3000 rpm / 420w = 7.14 rpm/w (no load)

Not allowing for frictional losses and so on. With a sprocket ratio of 3:1 your rear wheel will be 2.38 rpm/w (no load).

Hunting

mark

[HuntingRoss]

...Obviously you overlook this image because I have uploaded on previous post, and you did not quoted at all...

...The only thing the switches are supposed to accomplish...is to Disconnect or Connect when they are commanded to do so.

Agreed. The leading edge of the comm segment connects on one side of the brush and disconnects when the trailing edge of the comm segment leaves the other side of the brush. The brush width has to be considered in the equation because P2 has to advance over the brush before it can FULLY Disconnect.

I'm neither overlooking nor ignoring the images. We already agree that the switching can happen in any position, so moving the brushes makes no difference to my comments. The only thing not on the images is the magnet bisectors at 90º.

I see the point of contention is what I've been calling the 'sweep angle' and you refer to as 'switcher displacement angle'.

And the issue is this. When our schematics show P1 coming onto the brush with the coil bisector at 5º and your emphatic comment :

IF WE DO NOT FULLY DISCONNECT P2 & P16 BEFORE IT REACHES SOUTH STATOR BISECTOR...WE MUST DISREGARD THIS METHOD AND SWITCH BACK TO PREVIOUS OVERLAPPED METHOD, WHICH OFFERS MORE ADJUSTMENTS.

Then we have to advance our schematic to the point when P2 is disconnected and consider the position of the bisector relative to the south bisector which has been stated in previous posts as being 20º.

If we refer to your images and ask 'Is P2 FULLY Disconnected' the answer must be NO...It is clearly connected...And will be for another 6º.

Where is the P2C1 bisector now ? It is -

5º + 65º + 6º + Y = 90º

Which leaves 14º, not 20º.

This may be sustainable in the 28 pole Imperial but when this was discussed in the context of the 12 pole motor, the point was rudely dismissed.

Just hoping to have the 'final agreement'...

Surely we can agree your images show P2 to be fully connected at 5º + 65º ?

And surely it is not contentious to acknowledge that P2 is connected for another 6º before it 'rolls' off the brush ?

Hunting

mark

[Midaztouch]

No magic bullet found so far in Quad Stator embodiment. I was looking for the spike down in amperage as found by GChilders in his dual stator 5-pole conversions.




The zero degree position is Ufo's recommended setting on his diagram. From there I notched 1/8" hash marks, 4 on one side in the direction of rotation, and 3 opposite to rotation. This is approximately 7 deg. per mark. I found pretty much a smooth degradation from optimum as I moved away from the 0, "zero" setting.


Findings: Amp draw increased proportionally and rpm dropped as tuning was adjusted away from the initial position. Although amp draw increased a factor of 2 and 3 times as tuning was moved 21 and 28 deg away from optimum, No factor of 10 or more improvement was found.

PS: tried a few 1/2 hash mark positions also, no suprises.

Sampojo

Thank you for your findings. I was hoping that you found amazing test results like Gary's "sweet spot". Was all if the timing adjustments done under No Load?

Bistanders is debating Raul/UFO on "Coil Magnetic Efficiency". Just like me, Bistander is saying that the Singular Coils are best for Asymetric Motors . Singular Coils is exactly how I made the A1MoGen. If you decide to build your motor with the Singular Coil design. Use 4poles singular coils for you motor. You will have more TORQUE, higher RPMs & less voltage drop.

Tesla was an efficiency purist. He would've done it with Singular Coils.

Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz

UFOs and flying Unicorns are still myths. Looks like DADhav was correct. Gary, where is your proof or are you gonna disappear again!?

[bistander]

Free Speech

Now, that is wrong Bistander, you have absolutely no right to "influence" others from My Thread here, with your old, ancient science laws...let them experience by themselves...they have been doing it before without you here...trying to "warn" about old concepts.

You are wrong Ufopolitics. I have the right to free speech. Even though you may consider ancient laws unworthy, the US Constitution and First Amendment trump you. Those who seek to shut out dissenting views and limit the speech and expressions of others who disagree with them often become tyrants. Don't let this happen to you.

So...let me see if I understand you...You are saying just "That Portion" of each coils would cancel...right?...cancel what to zero?

1- Magnetic Field?

2-Electric Fields?

3-Current flowing through that particular end?

I went through this twice, but again for you. Yes, the 2 coil sides in the same armature slot cancel;

1 - Magnetic field for those two coil sides.

2 - Electric field for those two coil sides.

3 - No, current will still flow through those two coil sides. It has to to complete the electric circuit. And that is the problem. You have current flow through copper and associated resistance which does no work for you.

Precisely, a Single Coil would have much less "span angle" or as I call it Throw Out Angle. You can not just use one single coil and wrap it around EIGHT POLES of that Rotor, it is too wide of a semi air core, half and half steel and air design.

But that is exactly what you end up with with your coil pair because the inside coil sides (sharing the same slot) cancel each other magnetically. So the coil pair will behave just like the double wide coil.

Yes, have "provided" the foundation for an electric machine industry...yes...but based on what kind of "PRIME MOVER" has been required for so long to just "TURN" those Generators built for over two Centuries?

Unfortunately, many Generator Designs have being conceived during all this long time...however, all based on the same old, methods...same old concepts.

They all still, require the "herculean" farting machines to run them all...what a wasted time!!!

Efficiency?...please...show me FIRST the "efficiency" of an ICE (Internal Combustion Engine)...and yes, of course... go to the "latest, state of the art" machines...to find out...be my guest...

I was talking about the electric dynamo. And the electric generator can be powered by hydro or wind turbines without any objectionable farting. This is the renewable energy sub forum.

I really don't want to argue with you. So just drop it. I simply saw an obvious way to improve an armature winding and posted it. You have an empty core there. Give it a try. If it works, use it and develop your own theories as to why.

bi