My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[JohnStone]

.... A three-phase generator can be converted to a single-phase one by altering the connection between its stator windings inside or outside the generator head.....

Still pondering..... I might be wrong with my last post
If we imagine the squirrel cage made of aluminum as part of the aramture (being embedded in iron laminations).
The cage has a number of loops.
If we project those loops to the stator we identify in our mind same count of segments like the cage (might embrace several poles of stator...).
Let's take these segments and wind coils around and connect them in series.
Then we have single phase gen.


Applying those notions to a car alternator:
In example above we have 12 poles at armature and 36 poles at stator. Every coil shall embrace 3 poles at stator. But not like above 3 poles overlapping other triple poles - that is genuine polyphase design.

In case above you have 12 cycles per revolution. So please acouunt for it to rotate much slower for 60 Hz than 3 phase design - not good for gen function.

You should account for mass of gen head as well. Througout history of motors those with great mass seem to operate with better efficiency (despite notions of current physics). There is something to it if we torque-pulse rotating masses. Might be one part of secrets of Ed Grey, Newman and others. Therefore it might be convenient to get a cheap 3 phase motor of high power and mass and use one phase only.

BTW @ ALL:
- Once again Nassim Harmein: Best lecture regarding law of conservation of energy - based on an impossibility being accepted at SAME time.

- Did you know that inertia is less if objects rotate? De Palma proved it. He pondered on the question if mass and inertia are related directly - they are not. Newton's law relates to the special exception if an object is NOT rotating.
What about there is a hysteresis between acceleration and decelaration (because of inertia being modulated and possibly delayed)? Then we could earn more energy than input - out of open system - of course (see Nassim ).

- Same if we have a charge it will spread an electric field in the space with speed of light. Unfortunately such a space filled with electric field contains energy. Well - where does it come from? Our charge is still the same like before. Prof. Turtur calculated this phenomenon with current formulas and detected that there is energy missing in that volume - the far away the more. He supposes that an electric field is part of a loop (very likely a vortex) disapparing in space with time and reapparing at our charge. Once again our current notions are based on closed systems - the flow back is not present.
Does our electric science begin with a perpetuum mobile being jailed in a closed system? Do they accept an impossibility as given truth?


Those notions above shall encourage all of you to think out of the box. The truth can't be jailed in a closed system!!!! Any incompatibility might affect "known" knowledge severely as well. That is not amusing at all
JS

[sampojo]

Baldor winding calculation refined

Ufo,

Running some estimates on multifilar windings. sticking with 30ga.

trifilar looks like a bit more the 1/2 nominal diameter of orig wire, 19ga, estimating needs 160+' wire @ 4.3 ohms, to fill the rotor, based on original amount of 19ga wire removed.

Too high right?

quadfilar comes in at 2.5 ohms, 130' Perfecto!

Used this diagram to get ratios of wires in triangular vs square.

cross-sectional wrapping area is of course different from the conductor cross-sectional area.

[iankoglin]

Hello Kogs,

Kogs, for the 1000Watts I would use either a Bifilar of the 21 awg...or an 18 awg single strand...and try a few more turns if possible...like 18 to 20 Turns.

Now, in Asymmetry you will have Torque and Speed within same curve displacement, (directly proportional) meaning, both parameters would be obtained at equal top performance...however, since the 1000 W have a longer rotor and longer stators...they would deliver/project greater/bigger area of their magnetic fields...therefore, more torque than a shorter version.

Regards
Ufopolitics

G'day UFO
When I say I filled the armature I mean I really packed the turns in
As the opening in the armature for the wire is the same for both 230w and 1000w motors I was only able to fit 2 x 16 turns measured .67mm diam. so
my rough calculation is as follows:-
Volume=AWGDiam * Number of Turns and therefore V=D*T and inversely T=V/D
The 350w motor was/is per pole 16 X2T * .67D = V21.44
So 21.44/.67=32 turns and therefore
AWG18 D=1mm so 21.44/1=21.44 Turns 22 T I think would push the limit
AWG21D=.74mm so 21.44/.74=28.97 Turns say 28 single T and =14T Bifilar
AWG22D=.67mm so 21.44/.67=32 single T and =16 T Bifilar

So My friend what is the best way?

Kindest Regards

Kogs rattling his Brains

[MonsieurM]

Hello to All,



[IMG][/IMG]

On above Diagram it is shown the Motor and Generator Pairs...must realize that Generating Coils would be at "Off Time" from energizing...so, as we all know...they will be reversing "naturally" (not forced) their magnetic poles as voltage polarity.


Thanks much and Regards to all


Ufopolitics

hello UFO and again thank for your invaluable time and even more for your patience and encouragement to others

I noticed you use a lot of sacred geometry .... and bare with me on this one

have you considered the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enneagram_(geometry)

[Ufopolitics]

18...

G'day UFO
When I say I filled the armature I mean I really packed the turns in
As the opening in the armature for the wire is the same for both 230w and 1000w motors I was only able to fit 2 x 16 turns measured .67mm diam. so
my rough calculation is as follows:-
Volume=AWGDiam * Number of Turns and therefore V=D*T and inversely T=V/D
The 350w motor was/is per pole 16 X2T * .67D = V21.44
So 21.44/.67=32 turns and therefore
AWG18 D=1mm so 21.44/1=21.44 Turns 22 T I think would push the limit
AWG21D=.74mm so 21.44/.74=28.97 Turns say 28 single T and =14T Bifilar
AWG22D=.67mm so 21.44/.67=32 single T and =16 T Bifilar

So My friend what is the best way?

Kindest Regards

Kogs rattling his Brains

Kogs,


Eighteen (18) awg that will give you 21-22 Turns, I believe would be the best choice.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Not exactly looking for it...

hello UFO and again thank for your invaluable time and even more for your patience and encouragement to others

I noticed you use a lot of sacred geometry .... and bare with me on this one

have you considered the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enneagram_(geometry)

Hello Monsieur M,

My pleasure friend.

Yes, I know Asymmetry shows many forms of the Sacred Geometry...However...I am not starting or looking from this Geometries to conceive My Designs...they just come up as I mainly check there would not be any conflicts at all, in every angle of their Magnetic Interactions...

For example, some basic Designs like "The Star of David"...if you look closely it is just an "expanded" Three Pole Design...where the other existing poles are carried to the outer circumference...

And so on...

The limits we have here...is that we are working with already existing Motor Structures..."left overs" from Symmetry...Two and Four Stators..and that's it.

If You look at Tesla Patent on Motors and Generators...watch Six, Eight, Nine Stators...and many different structures not seen at all in any of our "everyday" Machines...

And the Fact that Symmetry just brakes the 360º Quadrant in Even or Equal Sized Virtual Fields...there is absolutely no need to expand beyond Four Stators...

It really does not require much knowledge on Circuits and Coils Connections or Magnetism...to understand How Tesla wounded and connected His Machines...besides repeating it in every single Electrodynamic Patent you could grab randomly..."Independently Energized Coils or Groups thereof..."..."two or more independent circuits ..", a motor containing separate or independent circuits...etc,etc

In Symmetry...everything is connected into a Completely and full Short Circuit...no idling, no brake for even one single coil...til it burns crispy...


Kind Regards


Ufopolitics

[iankoglin]

Kogs,


Eighteen (18) awg that will give you 21-22 Turns, I believe would be the best choice.


Regards


Ufopolitics

G'day and Thanks Pal
AWG18 it will be per pole 11 turns CCW and 11 turns CW X 20 poles total 440 turns I will have it wound this week and keep you posted
Kindest Regards to you

Kogs still at it

[Ufopolitics]

Wait...Wait Kogs!

G'day and Thanks Pal
AWG18 it will be per pole 11 turns CCW and 11 turns CW X 20 poles total 440 turns I will have it wound this week and keep you posted
Kindest Regards to you

Kogs still at it

Hold On Kogs!


I thought You were winding 22 Turns PER COIL, meaning, 44 on Pair!

Then Don't do it with 18 awg and just 22 Turns Total by Pair...it is too little, motor will get too hot on 24 Volts...

So, reduce the gauge to finest gauge (22)...and please...measure resistance in your first Pair (P1) before proceeding to populate it!...That is the whole point here...as not to drop below 0.6/0.7 ohms per Pair!...in order to run a "relaxed" machine...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[MonsieurM]

Hello Monsieur M,

My pleasure friend.

Yes, I know Asymmetry shows many forms of the Sacred Geometry...However...I am not starting or looking from this Geometries to conceive My Designs...they just come up as I mainly check there would not be any conflicts at all, in every angle of their Magnetic Interactions...

For example, some basic Designs like "The Star of David"...if you look closely it is just an "expanded" Three Pole Design...where the other existing poles are carried to the outer circumference...

And so on...

Again Thank you for the info .... may i say from my point of view , the way you ended up using sacred geometry not on purpose but as a slow well studied manner is an awesome discovery in itself

All roads lead to "Rome" ( who happen to use a lot of sacred geometry ) .... in other words All Roads lead to Sacred Geometry

The limits we have here...is that we are working with already existing Motor Structures..."left overs" from Symmetry...Two and Four Stators..and that's it.

If You look at Tesla Patent on Motors and Generators...watch Six, Eight, Nine Stators...and many different structures not seen at all in any of our "everyday" Machines...

And the Fact that Symmetry just brakes the 360º Quadrant in Even or Equal Sized Virtual Fields...there is absolutely no need to expand beyond Four Stators...

It really does not require much knowledge on Circuits and Coils Connections or Magnetism...to understand How Tesla wounded and connected His Machines...besides repeating it in every single Electrodynamic Patent you could grab randomly..."Independently Energized Coils or Groups thereof..."..."two or more independent circuits ..", a motor containing separate or independent circuits...etc,etc

In Symmetry...everything is connected into a Completely and full Short Circuit...no idling, no brake for even one single coil...til it burns crispy...


Kind Regards


Ufopolitics

built in obsolescence .... so they can sell some more parts to you




the reason i was asking azbout the enneagram is just an observation that you have P1 to P9 ..... and the second drawing has nine points

and it is also called

The nine-pointed star or enneagram can also symbolize the nine gifts or fruits of the Holy Spirit.[4]

or energy



that makes it 3 poles 9 points / junctions

[MonsieurM]

also this one follows the same sacred geometry pattern as P10 4 stator .... fig 208

The inventions, researches and writings of Nikola Tesla, with special reference to his work in polyphase currents and high potential lighting

[sampojo]

Re:Ten Poles Ten Pairs...No Pentagons. post 5736

Hello to All,

Out of the Ten Poles Structures...I have realized We do not have a Ten Pairs Sequence...Although I have disclosed Dual Pentagons related to this design...so, here it is...a very Robust Machine:

Ufopolitics

So Ufo, any estimate on which you like better? The Dual Pentagon Y Post 1466 was for dual stators, and 5 Poles, while the Quad Pentagon Y 10-pole Post 4238 had 4 stators. You mean the quad right? Well if it is just as strong (stronger?) as the QP10, this looks like an easier winding pattern, similar to your first RS Hobby motor and looks a little like the Imperial design, too. Much easier winding as no spool requirement due to the need to wind the south poles of about 5 coils before you could finish the North pole of the first coil? The usual timing possibilities to improve performance?

[Ufopolitics]

P10/4s/4b

So Ufo, any estimate on which you like better? The Dual Pentagon Y Post 1466 was for dual stators, and 5 Poles, while the Quad Pentagon Y 10-pole Post 4238 had 4 stators. You mean the quad right? Well if it is just as strong (stronger?) as the QP10, this looks like an easier winding pattern, similar to your first RS Hobby motor and looks a little like the Imperial design, too. Much easier winding as no spool requirement due to the need to wind the south poles of about 5 coils before you could finish the North pole of the first coil? The usual timing possibilities to improve performance?

Hello Sam,

Well, I would be helping a friend to put together this Model, it will have 10 uf non polarized capacitors per each Pair...It should be finished pretty soon, so I will tell you, and you will see it perform.

To my opinion, yes, it is much simpler to wind than the Quad Penta...and since it has longer poles coils disbursed along the whole rotor...it should render very strong results.

It does resembles the Imperial winding, and it is the same basic way to time it, just like all others Sequential Pairs construction (Spiral Type)

You already have built the Pentagon Model...so if you build this one, you will be able to make comparisons easier having both types...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[warrensk]

20 pole my1020 motor

Hey UFO,

I am also going to start wiring a 20 pole motor. What design would you recommend for getting the best radiant output? I would like to use the motor as a radiant generator.

Quad Pentagons or the regular 20 poles design?

Also what method would you say is best for refurbishing one of these scooter motors?

@iankoglin,

I am excited to see your build!

-warrensk

[Cornboy 555]

For cornboy


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Hello SERG V. i am glad we don't have to harvest with that type of lo cost energy anymore.

Those really were the days, when you earned a living.

That lovely lady, sure wouldn't look like that by the end of the day!.

I follow your posts on the don smith thread, keep up the good work.

Regards Cornboy.

[Ufopolitics]

20 Poles...

Hey UFO,

I am also going to start wiring a 20 pole motor. What design would you recommend for getting the best radiant output? I would like to use the motor as a radiant generator.

Quad Pentagons or the regular 20 poles design?

Also what method would you say is best for refurbishing one of these scooter motors?

@iankoglin,

I am excited to see your build!

-warrensk

Hello Warrensk,


I have not built the Quad Penta 20 Poles, therefore, can not confirm based on testing this Type...However, according to its structure I believe the P20 (just like your P16) would be a better Generator, just because of a more constant sequence order of Coils that are built equally in size, whether North or South.

This winding would also be great to power a Scooter, very fast and very strong.


Warm regards


Ufopolitics