My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[GChilders]

AN1 AN2 Attraction mode

@Midaz
That is the way they were designed. Not my words, UFO in his original description of the all north called it an attraction mode and called for a different embodiment than the NSRS build. They are actually both as the firing position is somewhat in between the magnets. Look at the cads and you will see it. I just built them the way they were drawn. There was no drawing for the AN3. It will not work with the same embodiment as the AN1 and AN2 the way that I wound it, but it does work with the same embodiment that the NSRS build works with. I changed nothing about the AN1 and AN2 were designed. I am just using UFO's description of the two motors.

Cheers

Garry

[Midaztouch]

@all

Well the timing tests have all been concluded documented and finally a video presentation finished. I appreciate everyone's patience on this project, I have had to learn a few new program's to be able to produce the video as well as learning how to use a few new pieces of equipment. I looked at the date that I posted the first Battle of the Windings and that was about three weeks ago. I have finally finished it with many set backs resulting in tossing out numerous tests until I finally got consistently reproducible results. Any time I see results that are too good to be true I continue to test until I can prove to myself that they are true. Here is the url to my video "The Battle Of The Windings-The Timing Contest". This is the first of the installments and has been edited and reedited to get it down to a reasonable size. I have demonstrated the 5 pole Gold Mine motor in these videos and the results of timing are truly amazing. The All North Version One and Version Two are superb and well worth pursuing. This timing test does not prove the asymmetrical properties as the test is simply a comparison to the symmetrical motor. The only tests are the RPM/VoltsIn and RPM/WattsIn and the AN1 and AN2 totally blow away the symmetrical motor. Well here is the link:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7bjrsobp76...WTiming.mp4?dl

Let me know what you think guys.

I am ready to begin the next contest. "The Lenz Effect Contest"

Cheers

Garry

Garry

Thank you for your hard work!


Why did you set the AN1 & AN2 in attraction mode -vs- repulsion mode?

Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz

The "UR" tab didn't work for me too. Just post the link directly, like I did for you quote

[GChilders]

Battle Of The Windings Timing Contest

@all

Well the timing tests have all been concluded documented and finally a video presentation finished. I appreciate everyone's patience on this project, I have had to learn a few new program's to be able to produce the video as well as learning how to use a few new pieces of equipment. I looked at the date that I posted the first Battle of the Windings and that was about three weeks ago. I have finally finished it with many set backs resulting in tossing out numerous tests until I finally got consistently reproducible results. Any time I see results that are too good to be true I continue to test until I can prove to myself that they are true. Here is the url to my video "The Battle Of The Windings-The Timing Contest". This is the first of the installments and has been edited and reedited to get it down to a reasonable size. I have demonstrated the 5 pole Gold Mine motor in these videos and the results of timing are truly amazing. The All North Version One and Version Two are superb and well worth pursuing. This timing test does not prove the asymmetrical properties as the test is simply a comparison to the symmetrical motor. The only tests are the RPM/VoltsIn and RPM/WattsIn and the AN1 and AN2 totally blow away the symmetrical motor. Well here is the link:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7bjrsobp76...WTiming.mp4?dl

Let me know what you think guys.

I am ready to begin the next contest. "The Lenz Effect Contest"

Cheers

Garry

[Ufopolitics]

No hijacking at all...

Thanks, Ufo

Yes, our design can be considered asymmetrical. We were able to make the motors quiet and 'balanced' by using a dipolar method. And yes, the IGBT's are almost as good as a brush system (conduction less than .01 ohm) without the sparks (good for explosive atmospheres). If you read the patent I linked above, you will see we do 'collect' the collapsed spikes and route the energy into an isolated, separate supply for re-insertion. We have to do it this way because the energy is going the 'opposite way' ie. polarity.

I don't mean to hi-jak your thread, so if anyone wants to discuss our technology, we'll start another thread.

Keep up the great work. Tesla would be proud.

Hello Dyetalon,


No hijacking at all, be welcome to expose or comment here about your work as you please...

If you read the patent I linked above, you will see we do 'collect' the collapsed spikes and route the energy into an isolated, separate supply for re-insertion. We have to do it this way because the energy is going the 'opposite way' ie. polarity.

Yes Dyetalon, We are all in the same page here...this returned energy contains all kind of 'imperfections and impurities' as well as it is reversed by nature, so it is understood it needs a 'restoration process'...Supercaps are excellent banks to deposit this charges but very expensive.

Our Motors have an 'idling cycle' (Off Period) where we collect at the output gates/brushes. However, can't collect all of it because of constant disconnection which increase with higher speed.

You do not have that issue, since your stators are always hooked to the circuit, so by closing-opening gates you could disburse it for the full off period.

I designed a special 36 Poles motor for one of our dear Australian Friends here...Cornboy...and it was based on pulsed stators synchronized with Input to specific Rotor Coils...unfortunately He had to leave project on stand by for personal reasons.

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

We also developed here what we named "Monster Pulser" but based on N-Channels FETS, instead of IGBt's...by Sir John Stone, which is basically the Switching Module for each independent Gate...then programmed by Arduino Microprocessors...don't know if you already saw that part of our Thread here...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[dyetalon]

Hello Dyetalon, and welcome to this Thread!



Many thanks for doing this here Dyetalon...plus sharing about your technology!

Is really appreciated my friend!



It is VERY smart to be able to R&R each single stator from the exterior of motor casing!!

I have thought of that on heavy duty wound stator assemblies for big sized motor vehicle designs.

Plus each contains its Individual Heat Sink Fins...lovely and nice design!

This design could be scaled up to huge sized motors as well.

So, let me guess...... you guys are collecting each collapsed 'spike' as each stator coil or groups turn off right?...plus I imagine the collapsing sine will follow a nicely sequential wave form...

All I can say...it is a very, very beautiful Machine and Controller Idea!!...superb!



Hey Sam, this IS another type of "Asymmetrical Machine" my friend...NOT claiming is "mine" or my idea at all...What I meant is that it "Classifies" within the Asymmetrical "Family", except it is a Brushless concept.

The sequentially switching Stators electronically controlled, pulse Asymmetric Magnetic Fields for operation, forcing/causing rotation of steel rotor...like a reluctance motor, based on attraction.

The known Brushless Symmetric creates (typically) a 120º Magnetic Field at stator plus it uses permanent magnets at rotor.


Welcome and many thanks again Dyetalon!!


Ufopolitics

Thanks, Ufo

Yes, our design can be considered asymmetrical. We were able to make the motors quiet and 'balanced' by using a dipolar method. And yes, the IGBT's are almost as good as a brush system (conduction less than .01 ohm) without the sparks (good for explosive atmospheres). If you read the patent I linked above, you will see we do 'collect' the collapsed spikes and route the energy into an isolated, separate supply for re-insertion. We have to do it this way because the energy is going the 'opposite way' ie. polarity.

I don't mean to hi-jak your thread, so if anyone wants to discuss our technology, we'll start another thread.

Keep up the great work. Tesla would be proud.

[Ufopolitics]

Very smart Machine!

No not holding out on purpose...my contract forbid me to discuss our technology with anyone who didn't sign an NDA. Now that our motor is in the hands of professionals, I can freely discuss.
My partner and I began this project back in 2007 by building a better version of the Bedini motor.

Hello Dyetalon, and welcome to this Thread!

My main purpose of posting any info here is to re-enforce some of the ideas that have come about here on this forum:

Many thanks for doing this here Dyetalon...plus sharing about your technology!

Is really appreciated my friend!

1. YES- cemf 'recycling' is a tough subject to discuss with the status-quo.
2. NO- You don't need a 'basket-weave' stator or armature- we use independent and isolated stators that are replaceable.
3. NO- You don't have to reverse the polarity each 'pulse'.
4. YES- Getting the cemf out of the stator coils and NOT sending it back to the supply makes the motor run cooler.

see: Kress Technology Motor and Drive R&D


one of my issued patents in the USA AND CHINA: https://patents.justia.com/patent/20110089872

It is VERY smart to be able to R&R each single stator from the exterior of motor casing!!

I have thought of that on heavy duty wound stator assemblies for big sized motor vehicle designs.

Plus each contains its Individual Heat Sink Fins...lovely and nice design!

This design could be scaled up to huge sized motors as well.

So, let me guess...... you guys are collecting each collapsed 'spike' as each stator coil or groups turn off right?...plus I imagine the collapsing sine will follow a nicely sequential wave form...

All I can say...it is a very, very beautiful Machine and Controller Idea!!...superb!

Originally Posted by sampojo View Post
Been holding out huh? you gotta show us some of your stuff. You doing these asymm motors too?

Hey Sam, this IS another type of "Asymmetrical Machine" my friend...NOT claiming is "mine" or my idea at all...What I meant is that it "Classifies" within the Asymmetrical "Family", except it is a Brushless concept.

The sequentially switching Stators electronically controlled, pulse Asymmetric Magnetic Fields for operation, forcing/causing rotation of steel rotor...like a reluctance motor, based on attraction.

The known Brushless Symmetric creates (typically) a 120º Magnetic Field at stator plus it uses permanent magnets at rotor.


Welcome and many thanks again Dyetalon!!


Ufopolitics

[sampojo]

About bistanders forklift motor

Hey bIstander what is the model of that forklift anyway?

Seems to have a lot in common with the car motor Ufo is looking at, hi amperage high torque low RPM. Those features would all have to be designed out. Hi amperage 1000 A give me a break! Give the batteries a break and go asymmetric! Looks like over 50 poles. You would have to build it to be the like a thoroughbred horse and take advantage of asymmetric motor torque availability at high rpm. I suppose same rule applies about each coil wound to the about 1 ohm? I would really consider cutting the commentator in half but I would have to see the motor up close. Just move the Armature down and put one on the other side then there's room in the housing.

Bistander, did you say the stators were wound electro magnets?

56 frame motors like the Imperial can be rated up to 10horsepower. Maybe put a bank of 2 to 4 imperials under the hood

dyetalon: very cool thanks

[dyetalon]

Been holding out huh? you gotta show us some of your stuff. You doing these asymm motors too?

No not holding out on purpose...my contract forbid me to discuss our technology with anyone who didn't sign an NDA. Now that our motor is in the hands of professionals, I can freely discuss.
My partner and I began this project back in 2007 by building a re-design of Faraday's Homopolar motor (Bedini).

My main purpose of posting any info here is to re-enforce some of the ideas that have come about here on this forum:

1. YES- cemf 'recycling' is a tough subject to discuss with the status-quo.
2. NO- You don't need a 'basket-weave' stator or armature- we use independent and isolated stators that are replaceable.
3. NO- You don't have to reverse the polarity each 'pulse'.
4. YES- Getting the cemf out of the stator coils and NOT sending it back to the supply makes the motor run cooler.

see: Kress Technology Motor and Drive R&D


one of my issued patents in the USA AND CHINA: https://patents.justia.com/patent/20110089872

[Ufopolitics]

What a monster, don't like the brazed connections, but I guess the comm can take it. That is some kinda monster wire too. But the shaft looks too short too. Anything coming out the other side? Maybe that thing could be deruggedized for a car, cut the comm in half, then there be room! That thing steps up to a whole new dimension of electric motor.

So you still think cemf is needed to convert electricity to power??? You gotta study Ufo's original video's Asymmetry to enlightment, I think's the name, at the beginning of the thread.

Hello Sam,

Hey Bistander, thanks for posting that forklift armature!

[IMG][/IMG]

That motor have the same config as the GE small vehicle.golf cart type (Club Car)

Also the WARP SERIES (below pic) have similar structure as above...used on many EV Conversions...except the price is @2000.00-3000.00...depending on model

[IMG][/IMG]

Not good for Asymm conversion, single wire heavy coils only need small slot depth, not good for several strands of wire.

Now, some of the WARP series do look like could be converted since deeper slots...take a look:

[IMG][/IMG]

And look at this Brush...designed to stand high heat and transfer "mega amps"

[IMG][/IMG]

Symmetry can afford this heavy wire type because they are fired in series or groups, being closed/short circuited by the two or four brushes at 180º or 90º. It is an extremely hot running machine...and a monster eating amps.

Plus, this motor is a low speed, heavy torque type...learn how to distinguish that by comparing diameters from rotor-commutator ratio

Or it could be a ratio "in between" like Imperial type.

Use this simple diagram to think about this...

[IMG][/IMG]

Smaller commutators switch in a much shorter period of time than a wider diameter would do, even when rotor coils circumference from start slot to end slot is included within the same angle. This generates a shorter ON Time plus the shifting 'arm' from shaft to rotor end is larger then for Asymm type it will develop the 'Hammer Effect' as it gains higher RPM's

I guess it comes down to availability of parts and a design like the Imperial that would have minimum conversion effort. We plan to start getting familiar with local electric shops looking for piles of burnt up motors, too, trying to do it on the cheap. Always feel better about tearing up a broken motor as opposed to one that's in perfect operating condition.

Finding Imperial was not a simple search...Your post above reminded me about my first order where I paid M$RP for the two brand new ones and had to strip the epoxy and wires...what a mess! ...auch!!

[IMG][/IMG]

I only stripped one of them as I still keep the other OEM untouched....just ordered an extra commutator and brush board assy to build it...too much work!

I tell you it is NOW a piece of cake to get an Imperial Kit and just put it together and wind it...

About the EV Forums...I believe you have to step in with an assembled, working and tested prototype...then...see how they approach to you......otherwise they will look at you like Dyetalon mentioned...

About "Typical" EV Conversions...and Shaft size, you must realize that Motor should supply the turning of all 'accessories' in the front end through pulleys and belts, like AC Compressor, Steering Pump, Vacuum Pump (to at least assist brakes Power Booster), Alternator for auxiliary 12 V Circuit, etc, etc...while the other end of shaft will turn the Clutch or Converter at Transmission to axles...meaning Power Train.

That is a lot of demand for an Electric single Motor my friend...

Tesla Motors came up with a very, very smart system...all small electric motors running independently each required accessory pump...so power train motor only does that...turn the wheels...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[sampojo]

Hi sam,

This is what the armature in a 9" diameter forklift motor looks like. It is similar to the armature in you automotive cranking motor except much larger. Notice the single turn armature coils brazed or welded to the commutator. It is a 4 pole wave wound single turn armature using 49 slots and 49 commutator segments in this case. The Ebay motor you refer to may have a different slot count, but will be an odd number of comm segments, like 37, 49, or 65 to facilitate the wave (2 circuit) winding. The armature coils are preformed hairpins of heavy rectangular copper. They are inserted into rectangular slots in the armature core. I wonder how your winding technique will work with one turn coils.



The stator is a wound field, 4 pole series connected with the armature. It will have a coils of heavy rectangular cross section copper ribbon wrapped around a steel pole shoe, maybe a dozen turns per coil or so. The field coil connections are brazed or welded.

The field and armature see the same current since they are connected in series and for this motor that would be about 200 to 250A continuous with intermittent 5-10 second jolts up to 1000A.

It would be interesting to see you rewind one of these. Good luck.

bi

What a monster, don't like the brazed connections, but I guess the comm can take it. That is some kinda monster wire too. But the shaft looks too short too. Anything coming out the other side? Maybe that thing could be deruggedized for a car, cut the comm in half, then there be room! That thing steps up to a whole new dimension of electric motor.

So you still think cemf is needed to convert electricity to power??? You gotta study Ufo's original video's Asymmetry to enlightment, I think's the name, at the beginning of the thread.

[sampojo]

Huh? Hey you too busy to post I bet

thanks dyetalon, surprised myself, how simple Tesla's ideas seemed, once you think about it for 2 years

I couldn't agree with you more, Sam. I have a few motor patents that skim the cemf from the collapsing field and re-process the energy, returning it into the motor in a separate stage. When we were trying to get some traction with the 'professional' motor people, NO ONE could understand what we are doing. I used the same explanation you have said here, but they just stared at me like a little puppy (blank looks). Contemporary designs are limited- when the cemf reaches an equal voltage as the supply, then that's it for speed...won't go any faster! Not the case with our motors- I had one come apart on me around 18,000 rpm! Just barely missed getting hurt with flying debris. Now I use a safety cage for high speed runs.
You folks are on the right path. Don't be discouraged by the 'status-quo'.

Been holding out huh? you gotta show us some of your stuff. You doing these asymm motors too?

[sampojo]

Mechanics Test of Redesign of multifilar Quad unipolar 10-pole nearing completion

Has maybe +/_ 20 deg tunability. Each brush now has its own wire exit point on the motor body. And the coils are trifilar 32gauge coming in at a calculated 1.2 ohms.

In my last test of this complete redesign of the GM window regulators I rushed into, I had estd. .6-.7 ohm per coil, on a quad-filar winding, slapped motor together, taping endplate , wires flopping around, skipped some spacers, and what a disaster. motor shot to 120 degrees in nothing flat, chewed up 4 brushes by slamming them into the connectors on the commutator, and on the other side caught a brush wire on the connector and chopped it in half.

OK, so I completed the design of all the loose ends and boy it is really purring, doing 5736 rpm on 12v. Running so cool too, just 75defF after a few.



Running much better than my double rotor Dual stator model, only gets 3000 RPM on 12v. Its not a multifilar, and it has a little too much turning resistance methinks.

Just put one brush set in so far to test. used popsicle stick hedges jamming a sliver, perfect fit no epoxy there, probably put a coat though, but the coil ends still need a coat, so did not want to over stress it. very happy

Only thing is it is running the opposite direction than that shown on the Ufo wiring diagram.



Got something mixed up, and the tuning could be off over 10 degrees... Oh well tomorrow!

Edit: just hooked up the motor in reversed connections and picked up another 1000 rpm!! So I think I learned something new about it UFO's diagrams as to the polarity of the front and back brushes. Got the winding and timing right, polarity no. I had to put the Positive lead on the BACK brush! DOH!

[bistander]

UFO can you recommend a good forklift motor for asymmetric conversion. I have a friend who wants to convert his triumph into an electric car. I noticed eBay has some 9 inch motors of the MCF type 17 horse.

Hi sam,

This is what the armature in a 9" diameter forklift motor looks like. It is similar to the armature in you automotive cranking motor except much larger. Notice the single turn armature coils brazed or welded to the commutator. It is a 4 pole wave wound single turn armature using 49 slots and 49 commutator segments in this case. The Ebay motor you refer to may have a different slot count, but will be an odd number of comm segments, like 37, 49, or 65 to facilitate the wave (2 circuit) winding. The armature coils are preformed hairpins of heavy rectangular copper. They are inserted into rectangular slots in the armature core. I wonder how your winding technique will work with one turn coils.



The stator is a wound field, 4 pole series connected with the armature. It will have a coils of heavy rectangular cross section copper ribbon wrapped around a steel pole shoe, maybe a dozen turns per coil or so. The field coil connections are brazed or welded.

The field and armature see the same current since they are connected in series and for this motor that would be about 200 to 250A continuous with intermittent 5-10 second jolts up to 1000A.

It would be interesting to see you rewind one of these. Good luck.

bi

[Ufopolitics]

UFO can you recommend a good forklift motor for asymmetric conversion. I have a friend who wants to convert his triumph into an electric car. I noticed eBay has some 9 inch motors of the MCF type 17 horse. Cost is just 350. I guess it comes down to availability of parts and a design like the Imperial that would have minimum conversion effort. We plan to start getting familiar with local electric shops looking for piles of burnt up motors, too, trying to do it on the cheap. Always feel better about tearing up a broken motor as opposed to one that's in perfect operating condition.

Hello Sam,

I am sorry friend, but I have seen a Forklift Motor only installed,...so I have no idea about their inner config.
But hey, look around and see what they look like...you know exactly what we are looking for...

The Forum Site was kind of hectic today...couldn't post so far...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[sampojo]

Forklift motors

UFO can you recommend a good forklift motor for asymmetric conversion. I have a friend who wants to convert his triumph into an electric car. I noticed eBay has some 9 inch motors of the MCF type 17 horse. Cost is just 350. I guess it comes down to availability of parts and a design like the Imperial that would have minimum conversion effort. We plan to start getting familiar with local electric shops looking for piles of burnt up motors, too, trying to do it on the cheap. Always feel better about tearing up a broken motor as opposed to one that's in perfect operating condition.