My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[Ufopolitics]

Tesla Armature Cores...

Nkola Tesla Cores Laminations Design...

[IMG][/IMG]

Did You ever found something "different" to the way Nikola Tesla wound/displayed, His Coils in most of Designs, except for the "Toroidal Type" ?

They seem to look like a "Thick Ball" of wires...

Such difference from the way any motor or generator we know...always caught my attention...Then I started to make a Study of How the Laminations or the Structures could look like...as why?...looking for any advantages to the types we use.

[IMG][/IMG]

I took some of them into CAD...and came up with the following:

[IMG][/IMG]

On the Upper left, it refers to the Outer Static Coils of His "Disc Induction Motor"...however...same design...
On the Upper Right is about the Armature of a Two Pole Generator...same thing.
On the lower Left (FIG 14) is about a Three Phase Generator (60º apart)
And finally, on the Right Lower is about a Motor with Static Wound Toroidal Shape static Coils...while the wound Armature displays same configurations...

Conclusion followed...

Nikola Tesla utilized a "Radial" Wound Coils Geometry...where wires travel from one end to other end of the total Armature Diameter.
We utilize "Axial" Wound Coils in most of all our Electrodynamic Machines...where Coils are wound in the Outer Periphery of the Armature Structure.

[IMG][/IMG]

Above is a Diagram of the simple Tesla Two Pole Generator, and...analyzing and showing at bottom Fig, only the Coil that is at "Induction Timing" (contoured in green on both pictures) ...or crossing the two Stators Magnetic Lines of force, it is seating exactly at 90º or "half sweep" between fields.

This type of Winding and Coil Geometry expands a very robust and directional magnetic field whenever energized as a motor or as Induction in Generator concepts...but looking at its projection is expanded outside stators field reach, or at least in other sweep angles in a very minimal percentage.

[IMG][/IMG]

On the above Image...I am just showing (Contoured in Teal Blue)...the Coil that is at "Idling" stage...all its vertical conductors are out of the Stators Field reach...

All this sequences need to be broken down in steps with degrees of rotation, in order to see the result better...or in an Animated 3D CAD Video...

The dragging or counter forces...or Lenz Effect...on this type of winding configuration is much less by far...than a Typical Axial type we all know...plus adding the fact that Tesla utilized all his Coils with Independent or Open Circuits.

And when applied to Motors...the Forces of this Type of Coils are Greater and Stronger... since they project "Face to Face" on straight line...the Interacting Fields with Stators...or, whenever utilized as Induction Machines...the Attraction to the center Rotor or Disc "D" on Tesla's Pancake Motor are much bigger than a typical closed, axial type Symmetrical AC Machine...


Warm Regards and Light to All


Ufopolitics

[iankoglin]

Hold On Kogs!


I thought You were winding 22 Turns PER COIL, meaning, 44 on Pair!

Then Don't do it with 18 awg and just 22 Turns Total by Pair...it is too little, motor will get too hot on 24 Volts...

So, reduce the gauge to finest gauge (22)...and please...measure resistance in your first Pair (P1) before proceeding to populate it!...That is the whole point here...as not to drop below 0.6/0.7 ohms per Pair!...in order to run a "relaxed" machine...


Regards


Ufopolitics

G'day UFO
Sorry for the delayed response
The original wire I took from each pole was15 turns .8mm AWG20
The wire for the 350w motor I wound was AWG#22 As the slots for wiring are small I could not fit any more turns than 16 x 2 turns AWG#22

The 1000w motor has exactly the same armature laminations as the 350w motor and as you suggested I wound the first 2 coils with AWG #22 16 turns CCW and 16 turns CW and measured the Ohms I used 3 DMM's I connected the 2 probes together and read the Ohms and this measurement I deducted from the measured Ohms of the wound coil as follows:-
two different Dick Smith Q1559 DMM each one was the same
measured coil was 0.8 Ohms less across the probes was 0.4 =0.4 Ohms
a Vichy TC99 DMM
Measured coil was 0.6 Ohms less across the probes was 0.2 =0.4 Ohms

So it seems that this Ohmic reading is too small

Perhaps I could wind it as per your above post I would have enough room lengthwise
So UFO please what do you suggest as I will have to order the wire I need

I found out last Thursday that next Thursday 7 Nov I am to have my first knee replaced so I imagine I will be defunct for about a week while I get myself mobile.

Kindest regards my friend


Kogs in exercise mode

[Midaztouch]

G'day UFO


So it seems that this Ohmic reading is too small

Perhaps I could wind it as per your above post I would have enough room lengthwise So UFO please what do you suggest as I will have to order the wire I need


Kindest regards my friend


Kogs still in exercise mode

Kogs,

From your diagram, is your motor upside down? I think the "key" shaft should be top.

Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz

[Ufopolitics]

Yes it is Wrong...Again...

G'day UFO


So it seems that this Ohmic reading is too small

Perhaps I could wind it as per your above post I would have enough room lengthwise So UFO please what do you suggest as I will have to order the wire I need


Kindest regards my friend


Kogs still in exercise mode

Hello Kogs,

First...please allow me to pray the "Serenity Prayer"(short version)...

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

Amen.

Taking a DEEP Breath now...Meditating...Ohmmmmmmmmmm...




Kogs, please...use a CLOCK next to your CAD...ALWAYS!


You got it Wrong!...I mean, you wrote correct the CW and CCW...As also the Shaft Drive Side...("Typically, Normally"...the Drive Side is ALWAYS LONGER than the other side...But it is Ok, since you wrote "TOP") But it is NOT Applied when looking at wires directions of winding.

Look at Right Diagram Corrected side versus your Left Side...

[IMG][/IMG]

Remember this Drawing I have made a while back...?

[IMG][/IMG]

Always set Your Right Hand with your Four Fingers (except Thumb) like wrapping around Core to be wound...then Positive coming toward your FOUR fingers Tips...NORTH POLE would be your Thumb Aim...and your Hand rear end would be your SOUTH.

Related to the awg...like I said...from One Commutator Element to the Corresponding One...it should read above 0.6-0.7 MINIMUM Ohms...as TOTAL RESISTANCE IN PAIR.

Even though you think is right ...after you have wound P1...Check it with a couple of small 1.5 V Batteries...and take a Magnetic Compass reading...just to make sure Polarity is Ok...

Hope you get it now


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Radial Versus Axial Windings

Hello to All,

Below I have made a Diagram of Both Types of Windings to Configure a Coil...I call "Radial" to Tesla ways...however, it could bring confusion, since many Patents refer to radial as the types we all have up to now...I believe it is the wrong term...Axial relates to "around axis"...while radial means across, as radius does...or comprehending the whole Diameter on Circumference. In either ways...in a Graphic it is seen better...as the MAJOR ELECTROMAGNETIC Differences between this two types.

If someone have a better name for this type of Tesla Winding...please post it.

[IMG][/IMG]

The Tesla Winding offers much more advantages...

Wider and Stronger Magnetic Fields Spectrum -generated at steel core CENTER of laminations and propagated into 3D Space- delivers stronger and bigger Bisectors...resulting in stronger magnetic Throw Out Forces that applies only to Asymmetrical Independent Firing of Coils for Motor Applications...delivering super high torque as much faster speeds.

Bigger Area to insert more Vertical conductors , which are the ones being Induced at Generating Stages...as it makes our Coils Thicker then stronger and more compact...and NOT SPLIT into Two Separate Coils.

However...there is an even more important "attribute" to this Type of winding that I can see...and I will try to display in my best of Graphics and Words Language...

For some reason...In Each Single Coil...the Geometrical Disposition...between Vertical Conductors grouping Space Alignment...and Magnetic Field Bisectors or Lines of Flux become here in a perfect 90º Angle.

[IMG][/IMG]

Hope You can "see" it with my simple and poor explanations...

I am almost certain...that this type of winding could ease and up to a point "assist" when Coils are Inducing Energy...as also many "Effects" could be done using this great advantages of the 90º RADICAL separation between conflict zones, playing with the Stators disposition...like fusing Motor and Generator Interactions in one single Machine, same windings for both...

But then again...it must be "put in real practice" to verify this effects are for Real...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Cornboy 555]

Hello to All,

Below I have made a Diagram of Both Types of Windings to Configure a Coil...I call "Radial" to Tesla ways...however, it could bring confusion, since many Patents refer to radial as the types we all have up to now...I believe it is the wrong term...Axial relates to "around axis"...while radial means across, as radius does...or comprehending the whole Diameter on Circumference. In either ways...in a Graphic it is seen better...as the MAJOR ELECTROMAGNETIC Differences between this two types.

If someone have a better name for this type of Tesla Winding...please post it.

[IMG][/IMG]

The Tesla Winding offers much more advantages...

Wider and Stronger Magnetic Fields Spectrum -generated at steel core CENTER of laminations and propagated into 3D Space- delivers stronger and bigger Bisectors...resulting in stronger magnetic Throw Out Forces that applies only to Asymmetrical Independent Firing of Coils for Motor Applications...delivering super high torque as much faster speeds.

Bigger Area to insert more Vertical conductors , which are the ones being Induced at Generating Stages...as it makes our Coils Thicker then stronger and more compact...and NOT SPLIT into Two Separate Coils.

However...there is an even more important "attribute" to this Type of winding that I can see...and I will try to display in my best of Graphics and Words Language...

For some reason...In Each Single Coil...the Geometrical Disposition...between Vertical Conductors grouping Space Alignment...and Magnetic Field Bisectors or Lines of Flux become here in a perfect 90º Angle.

[IMG][/IMG]

Hope You can "see" it with my simple and poor explanations...

I am almost certain...that this type of winding could ease and up to a point "assist" when Coils are Inducing Energy...as also many "Effects" could be done using this great advantages of the 90º RADICAL separation between conflict zones, playing with the Stators disposition...like fusing Motor and Generator Interactions in one single Machine, same windings for both...

But then again...it must be "put in real practice" to verify this effects are for Real...


Regards


Ufopolitics

Hey UFO, great work, from a practical building point of view, this Radsla, winding method, could have a few difficulties that i can forsee.

1. Winding would have to be very tight, as there is no containment of outer wiring, perhaps a very thin aluminium cylinder could be fitted to outside of rotor, after winding, then the assembly could be dipped in insulation varnish.

2. Pole to pole facing would mainly be copper on the rotor, to iron on the stators, not sure how that would effect the torque in a motor application? Could be the Radiant effect could be much stronger, as using that amount of wire per coil, you could step up wire thickness, or go bifilar.

3. The amount of rotor poles, would probably be limited, due to all coil wires crossing each other on ends of rotor, causing large build up on ends.

Just a few considerations that come to mind looking at your beautifull drawings UFO, and also considering practical building.

You know a short while from now when i have finished and tested my motor UFO, i could easily build just a rotor like you display, and set my stators to be just 2 pole, to test this.

I must admit that i am hooked on the design that uses all magnetic fields, h-core, but there may be something we are missing with Tesla's beautifully simple designs.

Regards Friend, Cornboy.

[MonsieurM]

thought it would make life easier for some of you .... home made

DIY BL Motorwickelmaschine - Motor coil winding machine - YouTube

[Ufopolitics]

I always see the glass half way Full...

Hey UFO, great work, from a practical building point of view, this Radsla, winding method, could have a few difficulties that i can forsee.

Hey Cornboy, take a look below:

[IMG][/IMG]

Well ...Obviously...according to Mr Nikola Tesla...it worked out excellent...¿Any doubts?...

1. Winding would have to be very tight, as there is no containment of outer wiring, perhaps a very thin aluminium cylinder could be fitted to outside of rotor, after winding, then the assembly could be dipped in insulation varnish.

Not practical to "Block/Enclose" Magnetic Fields with an Aluminum wall Cylinder...just a "bath of Epoxy...and of course a very well done and tight winding will do the work...

2. Pole to pole facing would mainly be copper on the rotor, to iron on the stators, not sure how that would effect the torque in a motor application? Could be the Radiant effect could be much stronger, as using that amount of wire per coil, you could step up wire thickness, or go bifilar.

Cornboy, did you see my "All Wood Motor"?...Nothing but Copper and Wood my friend...

A TIMELESS MACHINE - YouTube

However, in this Motors there IS A\Steel Core...at inner rotor drum...You must realize the Coil is Grabbing the whole Diameter Area around that Cylinder... ,again...you have not wound your MAG3 as of now...or done other Asymmetric Motors...but just take a look at all the First/Starting group of Inner Pairs-Coils for the Imperial on the last of the Winding Videos (Part 3)...like P1, P2, P3...etc,etc...After you are done with P28...you simply can NOT SEE them at all...they are all the way inside rotor...all covered by the copper in the sequential layers...And they all still move the rotor...and very strongly.

3. The amount of rotor poles, would probably be limited, due to all coil wires crossing each other on ends of rotor, causing large build up on ends.

Again...look at Tesla Motor above...How many Coils there...please?...

But I know what you mean......an easy way, is to spread them "flat" all Horizontal wires at rotor ends...while keeping vertical ones as close and compacted as possible.

Just a few considerations that come to mind looking at your beautifull drawings UFO, and also considering practical building.

You know a short while from now when i have finished and tested my motor UFO, i could easily build just a rotor like you display, and set my stators to be just 2 pole, to test this.

I must admit that i am hooked on the design that uses all magnetic fields, h-core, but there may be something we are missing with Tesla's beautifully simple designs.

Regards Friend, Cornboy.

Yes, thanks my Friend...I know you could easily build it......only problem is "time"...

Actually I am more into using this Design as Generators...and pulsing just one or two coils to assist rotation...then Prime Mover Motor could be any type...talking about a Three Phase HUGE windings...trying to play with Stators sizes and positioning in order to "hide" when Lenz comes...

The H Cores are not a big deal to build Cornboy...all you need to build are two "Elongated" (long) Concave pieces out of the right diameter Cylinder...longer and wider than Stator Cores...just like: (( ...then add/weld bracket legs to bolt down to lower cap...understand to "center bolt" and sandwich stator core between plates... I am also using same type for Dual Rotors Asymmetric Motors Stators...

Regards


Ufopolitics

[iankoglin]

Hello Kogs,

Kogs, please...use a CLOCK next to your CAD...ALWAYS!

Related to the awg...like I said...from One Commutator Element to the Corresponding One...it should read above 0.6-0.7 MINIMUM Ohms...as TOTAL RESISTANCE IN PAIR.

Even though you think is right ...after you have wound P1...Check it with a couple of small 1.5 V Batteries...and take a Magnetic Compass reading...just to make sure Polarity is Ok...

Hope you get it now


Regards


Ufopolitics

G'day UFO and Team
I am sorry for the confusion I do Understand and I did not mean to post all of that drawing only the one that is on the left showing where the brushes fit and contact with the commutator in relation to the armature winding.
and the wires shown perhaps wiring differently
http://www.energeticforum.com/242521-post5769.html

Kindest regards to you all

Kogs Not really confused just should not post unrelated material to Question

[shylo]

Bi-sector

Hello UFO,
I follow this thread ,but 99 percent of it is over my head.
In post 5773 ,you show Teslas' winding with the strong bi-sector .
Is that the point where north and south meet?
Does all the wire running from one side to the other not add to the eddy currents?
The point where south and north meet , is there no polarity?
Currently winding a new pulse motor (having a hard time with coils shorting), but does a pulsed coil create an opposite pole when the supply is cut off? IF it does , this can definitely be used to our advantage.
Sorry for interrupting , just those diagrams got the old wheels turning.
Thanks for all your work , just wish I understood it better.
artv

[Midaztouch]

Heavy air pollution "Smog Alert"

@all

The Smog from china has reached my city, Fukuoka Japan. Today is a light misty rain. The air smell like a wet ashtray. My throat is irritated and I have had a headache for two days .

Since we don't have big money, we must do the next best thing. We must work smarter TOGETHER to find a better solution for simple efficient electric motors that are easy to mass produce.

China smog from last week
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9_vL2eSn-jc


Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz

[Cornboy 555]

@all

The Smog from china has reached my city, Fukuoka Japan. Today is a light misty rain. The air smell like a wet ashtray. My throat is irritated and I have had a headache for two days .

Since we don't have big money, we must do the next best thing. We must work smarter TOGETHER to find a better solution for simple efficient electric motors that are easy to mass produce.

China smog from last week
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9_vL2eSn-jc


Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz

I'm hearing Yu, and feeling Yu, Midas.

What you say i feel is Exactly Right, we must stick together, and avoid any temtation to go it alone. Especially for short term financial gain!.

Warm Regards Cornboy.

[Midaztouch]

I'm hearing Yu, and feeling Yu, Midas.

What you say i feel is Exactly Right, we must stick together, and avoid any temtation to go it alone. Especially for short term financial gain!.

Warm Regards Cornboy.

We were advised to stay indoors, wear smog masks if we go outside and gargle & wash our eyes when we return indoors. My wife and I feel like we being forced to stay in our house to protect our children. The wind will not blow for a few days. So, the smog will be here for a while. .....Feeling

Midaz

[Cornboy 555]

Hello UFO, after some consideration on the new stuff you just posted, it would seem to me that the most cost effective way to do proof of concept, would be to use the Two pole design, simply by ordering a spare Armature from Imperial,(very good price), and machine out the unnecessary poles to leave just Four.

There should be enough room to wind huge Teslial coils, not to mention a string of flat, high voltage capacitors, hooked in series, under the windings, and then in parallel with coils.

Thinking out loud, Cornboy.

[Ufopolitics]

Hello Kogs

G'day UFO and Team
I am sorry for the confusion I do Understand and I did not mean to post all of that drawing only the one that is on the left showing where the brushes fit and contact with the commutator in relation to the armature winding.
and the wires shown perhaps wiring differently
http://www.energeticforum.com/242521-post5769.html

Kindest regards to you all

Kogs Not really confused just should not post unrelated material to Question

Hello My Friend Kogs!

Sorry, it don't matter my friend...post as you like...I just did notice the wrong winding...and wanted to make sure you do not have future problems.

I was just kidding around...about my "prayers"...

Now, I see you are doing the 20 poles...and in the left diagram I can not see the Pair Coils limited by lines...so, assuming P1 is the very center where Coils Split...then your Bisectors are a bit away...meaning they could be closer to stators bisectors...

Realize that since you are grabbing Five (5) Poles each Coil Bisector would be the Third (3)Pole that is the right center.


Warm regards


Ufopolitics