My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[iankoglin]

G'day UFO and Team
On my You tube site Some one asked what was the watts output he suggested that I hang a 50watt bulb of the output I hung 6 - 24v 21w bulbs of the output and started it up you can see the video here



Wats Output - YouTube

Kindest regards

Kogs always tries to oblige

[barbosi]

@ Aaron

I won't trespass again.


Regards

Thank you - we'll keep you to your word.

As I don't sense any of the forum's guide lines were infringed, I take this as a silent way to announce a ban, undeserved especially when the thread initiator was welcoming the intervention.

Personally I would have listened to the wise ancestors which have advised: "Do not speak unless you can improve the silence".

Yet, when you say "we'll keep you..." who is there, beside you, to form a "we"?

Regards.

[Cornboy 555]

Hello Erfinder, i feel you do realy wish to contribute, so please keep posting.

Regards Cornboy.

[erfinder]

Hello Erfinder,
Please do not go...again, I want to congratulate you for finally deciding to open your own thread, where you are exposing very interesting effects/results, as very well built and excellent machines.

I am going to take that as an invitation, and assume that my posting from here on out isn't going to be considered as trespassing. I thank you for your kind words regarding my machines, you have set the bar incredibly high, so, if I want to communicate to you and your audience, my craftsmanship and attention to detail must par with yours.

But please...let's "Coexist" in harmony...Your Machines are a different approach to Electrodynamic Technology in the Brush Less DC design.

Yes, coexistence is the way to go, harmony my goal.

I am not qualified to say with any certainty what if any relation that my work has with the present accepted doctrines and dogma governing "Electrodynamic Technology". With that I try to avoid labels and focus on the effects that I'm interested in manifesting in my devices.

The Machines displayed here are a different approach, even the later ones I have shown which are also BLDC.
Look around Us...we still have brush and brushless motors everywhere...some are good for certain applications...where the others will just not output same performance. Even within the BLDC, we have different structures, like the Outrunners and the Inrunners...different winding types in Symmetry like the Delta and the WYE...and so on and on...

Yes there are commutated and brushless motors in what can be considered as unlimited quantities being applied in various applications. As you pointed out one type is good for one thing while the other type is good for another. The differences are not a concern for me though. What I am interested in is that single thing that unites them. Regardless of if the motor is a brushless type or a brushed type, both behave as if they were generators. From this perspective, that of the generator action, how the device is commutated is immaterial.

We should never disregard any machine or methodology... just because we just came up with a better, newer one...and yes you are right, CEMF at certain point is required to cause certain motor control...certain regulation of some parameters...all technology should "COEXIST"...The same way that Oil should have allowed secondary, alternative energy technologies along all this 130 plus years...

As I pointed out before, it's not about right or wrong. It's not about what's better, none of that matters to me, better or worse can only be judged by one who has accomplished the desired result, and has developed the ability to see, that which was perceived as a weakness as strength. It is not my intention to come across as if to disregard a machine or methodology, it is to identify kinks in the armor, and flaws in design. The brushed DC motor should have been designed differently.

I am of the opinion that CEMF is the system fulcrum. It is the mechanism that keeps all in check, it is from this position where we should be viewing the system, from the golden center. From the perspective of the CEMF the applied EMF is foreign!

I have been watching, reading all your posts in your thread...along with all videos you had uploaded...excellent work!

Your compliment is greatly appreciated.

I can see you have some different "effects" going on at TDC then at JTDC...after your machine is running at TDC very strong and fast...you move the Hall Sensor to JTDC and your Buffer Capacitor starts to produce a very interesting excess of Voltage much higher than source circuit...I see this phenomena very strange, but very worthy to develop and investigate much , but I mean MUCH further on...

This is the effect. One sees the voltage rise on a capacitor in the videos, but it must be understood that to charge the capacitor current is required. I am suggesting that the current charging this capacitor to a higher potential than the source is the exact same current which charges the parasitic capacitance of an unloaded generator coil, please give yourself time for that to sink in.

In my machine the design was specifically chosen so that the location of maximum induced potential is at JTDC, and the point of zero induced potential is at the zero crossing TDC proper. From the video it can be seen that the effect takes place at JTDC. The device is started at JTDC, it will not start at TDC. From here the machine draws maximum current till the RPM enables the CEMF to limit the current, at this point the timing is changed from JTDC to TDC, here there is no CEMF limiting the current and the motor accelerates to its new plateau. The timing is returned to JTDC, and the supply is charged, no drag is experienced during charging because no current is flowing from the source to oppose the charging current.

I was going to recommend some "approach" utilizing the angle where you move the Hall between TDC-JTDC...Now, Do you think you could build a "Dual Hall Sensor" electronic circuitry, say Hall 1 at TDC and Hall 2 at JTDC...where you could switch them on-off at regulated Speed between this two angles through a POT...to a point that both Halls would be pulsating back and forth from TDC to JTDC, plus another POT to Increase One more than the other and vice versa...say by percentage or Duty Cycle...from 50/50 to 80/20 %...I believe if you do this...and not manually like you have shown on videos...you will have more accurate control on your effect...therefore you would be able to play back and forth between the two worlds...high performance and pretty good output ...till you find a suitable spot on Percentage between H1 and H2...as frequency of switching between the two...maybe this would work...maybe not...we never know...but it is just my two cents.
Regards
Ufopolitics

I can and do appreciate your suggestions, early in the research these thoughts crossed my mind, and as you probably have guessed I followed those thoughts to their end. At the end of what appeared to be countless tests, it was determined that the effect manifests without extra switching, and introducing extra switching so as to move between JTDC and TDC proved to be counterproductive. The introduction of extra switching also demonstrated that I didn't really comprehend what I was working with. What I wanted, what the device was showing me was I needed to trigger at JTDC, the point of the anomaly, and draw current at a rate which is equal to that being drawn at TDC, use the CEMF to do this, use the CEMF as a lever which would switch the circuit between the two conditions experienced when moving between JTDC and TDC.

By changing our perspective which as it stands is that of the applied EMF looking into a system where an induced EMF is manifesting and increasing in magnitude with increasing RPM, we should consider the perspective of the CEMF and the circuit parameters which govern its manifestation and maintenance.

The interaction or more accurately the exchange taking place between the induced and applied EMF illustrate a one word mechanism, opposition. Opposition is a funny thing when we look at it deeper for the word itself leads one to mentally experience the force between two magnets with like poles facing one another, while at the same time accepting the "idea" that opposites attract.

Now the more "educated" among us would immediately see this as being a perfect example of double think, and were it not for my experiences would be inclined to agree with them. I am grateful that there have been great minds, giants who came before us and paved the way for deeper understanding, for what some ignorantly call double think, those wise call a magnetic gate.

I look forward to exchanging with you and your group UFO. Keep an open mind, mine is open, were it not I would not be on your thread sharing, not teaching, sharing. It is my hope that you can appreciate what I am suggesting, and that you have the vision to see how it applies to your work and what a combined effort could mean for the future. As it stands, a meshing of ideas isn't realizable owing to certain design complications, I have brought them to your attention in the past, and don't wish to repeat history, with that, I hope you see where I'm coming from and come to the same or similar conclusion that I have, when you do, a melding of material will not only be possible, it will be inevitable.



Regards

[Midaztouch]

@ UFO and Erfinder

Awwww. It's nice to see you two kiss and make up. I almost cried.... Not!
Go get a room!..... And make some motors!


All kidding aside. What did you think about Warren's vids I posted?

Keep it Clean and Green

Midaz

[Ufopolitics]

Is Ok Aaron...

Thank you - we'll keep you to your word.

Hello Aaron,

Thanks for helping the Thread as I have requested in the past...but it is fine now with Erfinder.

Thanks for Moderating this huge Forum so well. It is not an easy job.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

I am going to take that as an invitation, and assume that my posting from here on out isn't going to be considered as trespassing. I thank you for your kind words regarding my machines, you have set the bar incredibly high, so, if I want to communicate to you and your audience, my craftsmanship and attention to detail must par with yours.

Hello Erfinder,

Absolutely it is an invitation to this Thread, and thanks but it is my pleasure to point out attributes to your work that anyone else can see is there.

Since you have decided to open your own thread, and honestly exposed all your work, your development to all of Us...I have changed radically my opinion about you, you have entered a new space together with all of Us who expose here freely our development and research for others to observe, replicate and test...there was a big difference before friend.

Yes, coexistence is the way to go, harmony my goal.

Coexistence could apply to many fields of Humanity...and if We would have utilized that as a 'command' through our generations...our planet would have reached, by now, incredible levels of higher civilization.

Harmony is an 'additive' required to fulfill coexistence to the full throttle.

I am not qualified to say with any certainty what if any relation that my work has with the present accepted doctrines and dogma governing "Electrodynamic Technology". With that I try to avoid labels and focus on the effects that I'm interested in manifesting in my devices.


Yes there are commutated and brushless motors in what can be considered as unlimited quantities being applied in various applications. As you pointed out one type is good for one thing while the other type is good for another. The differences are not a concern for me though. What I am interested in is that single thing that unites them. Regardless of if the motor is a brushless type or a brushed type, both behave as if they were generators. From this perspective, that of the generator action, how the device is commutated is immaterial.



As I pointed out before, it's not about right or wrong. It's not about what's better, none of that matters to me, better or worse can only be judged by one who has accomplished the desired result, and has developed the ability to see, that which was perceived as a weakness as strength. It is not my intention to come across as if to disregard a machine or methodology, it is to identify kinks in the armor, and flaws in design. The brushed DC motor should have been designed differently.

Your work, if developed to the end of the results and conclusions, discovering the very core of the effects...could be one very strong 'rock' where many others would stand to keep developing high end machines and their governing controls.

I am of the opinion that CEMF is the system fulcrum. It is the mechanism that keeps all in check, it is from this position where we should be viewing the system, from the golden center. From the perspective of the CEMF the applied EMF is foreign!


Your compliment is greatly appreciated.



This is the effect. One sees the voltage rise on a capacitor in the videos, but it must be understood that to charge the capacitor current is required. I am suggesting that the current charging this capacitor to a higher potential than the source is the exact same current which charges the parasitic capacitance of an unloaded generator coil, please give yourself time for that to sink in.

In my machine the design was specifically chosen so that the location of maximum induced potential is at JTDC, and the point of zero induced potential is at the zero crossing TDC proper. From the video it can be seen that the effect takes place at JTDC. The device is started at JTDC, it will not start at TDC. From here the machine draws maximum current till the RPM enables the CEMF to limit the current, at this point the timing is changed from JTDC to TDC, here there is no CEMF limiting the current and the motor accelerates to its new plateau. The timing is returned to JTDC, and the supply is charged, no drag is experienced during charging because no current is flowing from the source to oppose the charging current.



I can and do appreciate your suggestions, early in the research these thoughts crossed my mind, and as you probably have guessed I followed those thoughts to their end. At the end of what appeared to be countless tests, it was determined that the effect manifests without extra switching, and introducing extra switching so as to move between JTDC and TDC proved to be counterproductive. The introduction of extra switching also demonstrated that I didn't really comprehend what I was working with. What I wanted, what the device was showing me was I needed to trigger at JTDC, the point of the anomaly, and draw current at a rate which is equal to that being drawn at TDC, use the CEMF to do this, use the CEMF as a lever which would switch the circuit between the two conditions experienced when moving between JTDC and TDC.

By changing our perspective which as it stands is that of the applied EMF looking into a system where an induced EMF is manifesting and increasing in magnitude with increasing RPM, we should consider the perspective of the CEMF and the circuit parameters which govern its manifestation and maintenance.

The interaction or more accurately the exchange taking place between the induced and applied EMF illustrate a one word mechanism, opposition. Opposition is a funny thing when we look at it deeper for the word itself leads one to mentally experience the force between two magnets with like poles facing one another, while at the same time accepting the "idea" that opposites attract.

Now the more "educated" among us would immediately see this as being a perfect example of double think, and were it not for my experiences would be inclined to agree with them. I am grateful that there have been great minds, giants who came before us and paved the way for deeper understanding, for what some ignorantly call double think, those wise call a magnetic gate.

See Erfinder, now that you have displayed your machines and the methods that you use to control them...it is easy for me to discuss with you about the 'CEMF'...

Like I said before, I have gone over all your settings, videos, circuits, etc...your means to control based on a Hall Sensor and an N-Chanel FET leaves very clear to me you are pulsing your motors on a "On-Off" timing...You even responded when somebody else asked you if you were reversing polarity at power input, very clear you responded...that you were not...but simply turning on and off the coils...and it is obvious if you are using an N-Chanel FET to achieve this operation, and not a half or a full "H" bridge.

So, Erfinder, we are exactly on the "same Chanel"!

So, now you may understand better what I have been criticizing on the Symmetric technology in all my videos and in all my posts here.

I am against forcing reversal to the coils to achieve rotation...as I see you are also in the same position.

When you plan in your design, that every revolution, your rotors will suffer a drastic reversal of polarity input to coils...that causes "a false CEMF"...a "fabricated" one...and it is not necessary to do this, when we can get a very "Natural CEMF" like you have shown in all your work.

I have nothing against the natural CEMF...at all, but am against, completely, to the false one made by a result of the Symmetric designs.

When you turn off coils they 'normally' create a natural CEMF...as when you short coils through other components.

This are the advantages to work in Open Forums, Open Sources, where we get to see all work done without any 'hiding sides'.

I look forward to exchanging with you and your group UFO. Keep an open mind, mine is open, were it not I would not be on your thread sharing, not teaching, sharing. It is my hope that you can appreciate what I am suggesting, and that you have the vision to see how it applies to your work and what a combined effort could mean for the future. As it stands, a meshing of ideas isn't realizable owing to certain design complications, I have brought them to your attention in the past, and don't wish to repeat history, with that, I hope you see where I'm coming from and come to the same or similar conclusion that I have, when you do, a melding of material will not only be possible, it will be inevitable.



Regards

I look forward too, and I know some of my guys will also like to see you around here...as all clouds will start dissipating very soon...leaving a very blue skies for us to work together for the same goals...and against the same enemy.

I want to say something else, before I finish this post...and this goes to everybody here.

I am not perfect, I am only human...we all make mistakes when it comes to judgement calls based on 'presumptions'...and am talking about judging individuals as am talking about judgement of technologies, discoveries and science...and we should not do that...on my end I try to correct it every day... ...because, it is not the correct social, nor scientific approach to disregard something based on a 'presumption'...an 'assumption'...

Right now, am working on the very roots of Induction...am researching articles and literature in general, as far as Internet, Google and written books available allows me to 'travel back in time'...from the Faraday discoveries back in the 1830's...to date...and it is extremely interesting to observe how this such important discovery for the benefit of humanity became a big "CIRCUS", where bright scientists were so stubborn and attached to either one of the two phenomena presented by Faraday...the "Moving Field" and the "Static Field" Theories...as this ended up in "disregarding" one to let the other prevail...allowing the two piece induction machines to become 'the one and only' we had to choose and study from there on...and that was a completely huge mistake for our civilization, a very wrong approach...adding all the 'vested' interests that protected one side and seized the other...

At the end of this race to find the truth...we must look back afterwards...and learn, once and for ever...that this mistakes could never repeat again in our history.

Regards


Ufopolitics

[Aaron]

moderating

As I don't sense any of the forum's guide lines were infringed, I take this as a silent way to announce a ban, undeserved especially when the thread initiator was welcoming the intervention.

Personally I would have listened to the wise ancestors which have advised: "Do not speak unless you can improve the silence".

Yet, when you say "we'll keep you..." who is there, beside you, to form a "we"?

Regards.

When the moderators receive multiple complaints for certain posts that are said to be disruptive, we usually ask them to stop or move their comments to their own thread.

Erfinder took it upon him/herself to say they won't post here anymore, which looks like it is obvious that he has already been communicated to about this issue by other members that are in this thread. If Erfinder agreed to leave, then it also looks obvious that he/she possibly recognizes that they're not welcome in the thread.

As a moderator, I get all kinds of complaints dealing with this kind of thing and it simply is not possible to go through and read every thread to know the entire context of what is happening. When I do get multiple complaints about the same person in any particular thread, it is practically guaranteed that they shouldn't be in that thread any more and are disrupting it.

Erfinder took it upon himself without any moderator intervention to say he won't post here anymore - when someone says that regardless of what the issues are, then they should honor what they said unless they're being invited back in.

When I say we, there are 3 other moderators besides myself. I'm not the only one here even though some think I make all the decisions here - far from the truth.

There is no such thing as a silent ban so you are taking this the wrong way. If someone is going to be banned, they will simply be banned without playing games.

If Erfinder is invited back or whatever and it looks like he/she is, then great. More times than not, when someone is asked by a moderator to leave a thread it is because the person who started the thread requested it and anyone that starts a discussion on anything has some say in who is considered to be disrupting things or not.

Since Erfinder looks like he/she is welcome here after all, then there is nothing here for me to do.

[Ufopolitics]

@ UFO and Erfinder

Awwww. It's nice to see you two kiss and make up. I almost cried.... Not!
Go get a room!..... And make some motors!

Midaz...You are a very funny guy...

All kidding aside. What did you think about Warren's vids I posted?

Keep it Clean and Green

Midaz

What do I think about Warrensk videos?

I believe Warrensk is gonna end up suing you for Videos Copyright violations...He will get the FBI, CIA and the SWAT Team...all the way to Japan...and put a Levy on your Radiance CBR...

All kidding......I believe they are awesome!, thanks for the links.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[ajaya999]

Some questions on pulsing the stator with another commutator

Hi Sir,

Namaste.

I could find a service provider here who makes circuits. I assigned them the job of making the Driver Circuit. But some components are not readily available here. It seems it takes about a week's time to get them and complete the circuit.

Meanwhile I want to add one more set of brushes to the existing commutators or add another commutator and two sets of brushes and power the stator coil with that. I have enough space on the shaft to mount one more commutator. I want to power the stator and rotor simultaneously. Hope this also amounts to pulsing the stator. But don't know how far this is effective when compared to pulsing the machine with the driver circuit?

And in the meantime, in the last 2 days I got a design ready completely in fiberglass and acrylic.

I made a 3 pole rotor with 85mm dia and 120mm length and one more rotor with the same dia (85mm) and 480mm length with 12 poles - both in fiberglass. I kept a space of 20mm dia in both the rotors, at the centre, for shaft.

I bought an acrylic tube with in inner dia of 90mm with a length of 600mm. I want to use it as stator.

The shaft length is 1 meter and dia is 14 mm and it is a Bright Bar. I want to mount both the rotors on a single shaft.

I want to run the 3 pole as motor-generator and let the 12 pole thing be a pure generator. I want to use the design you suggested to Turion - making one-half coil to more number of coils to get better voltages.

Commutators also I am making. They will be ready by tomorrow.

I bought Nylon bearings to mount these rotors. The supporting walls ( to hold the bearings) also I am keeping in fiberglass.

Thought of going for a fiber shaft as well. But 14 mm dia shaft was not available. I found 12.5mm and 16mm dia rods. But my turner didn't recommend them as while turning - he is suspecting - it might bend because of its length. So only for shaft I went for Bright Steel.

In case keeping a coupling between these two rotors is ok, then I can replace the shaft also with fiberglass or acrylic, if you recommend to go for a non-metallic shaft.

In such case, only metal in the machine will be copper in windings and commutators and brass in carbon brushes holders.

Tomorrow by noon, everything will be ready for winding sir.

Please guide me regarding the wire gauge in SWG, single or bifilar ( for both rotors and stator) and desired resistance in the windings. I tried to understand how many strands of coil(19 SWG / 18 AWG) can be put in a single pole of 12-pole rotor. I was able to keep more than 70 strands. And one turn length is coming to one meter.

About the 3-pole rotor, I didn't try how many strands of wire sit? But can say that 1 pole is at least 3.5 times more in space against 1 pole space of 12-P rotor. So might accommodate about 250 strands ( of 19 SWG / 18 AWG). And one turn is coming to 25 cm in length. So 4 turns are making a meter.

Here also till the driver is ready, I want to power the stator and rotors with different commutators.

Hope you will enjoy seeing the machine sir.

Regards and Namaste

Kumar

[Ufopolitics]

Hi Sir,

Namaste.

I could find a service provider here who makes circuits. I assigned them the job of making the Driver Circuit. But some components are not readily available here. It seems it takes about a week's time to get them and complete the circuit.

Meanwhile I want to add one more set of brushes to the existing commutators or add another commutator and two sets of brushes and power the stator coil with that. I have enough space on the shaft to mount one more commutator. I want to power the stator and rotor simultaneously. Hope this also amounts to pulsing the stator. But don't know how far this is effective when compared to pulsing the machine with the driver circuit?

And in the meantime, in the last 2 days I got a design ready completely in fiberglass and acrylic.

I made a 3 pole rotor with 85mm dia and 120mm length and one more rotor with the same dia (85mm) and 480mm length with 12 poles - both in fiberglass. I kept a space of 20mm dia in both the rotors, at the centre, for shaft.

I bought an acrylic tube with in inner dia of 90mm with a length of 600mm. I want to use it as stator.

The shaft length is 1 meter and dia is 14 mm and it is a Bright Bar. I want to mount both the rotors on a single shaft.

Hello Kumar,

It would be great if you could put all this text into graphics, CAD's or even a hand sketch...so we get the whole idea of your project...adding some measurements will help as well...

I want to run the 3 pole as motor-generator and let the 12 pole thing be a pure generator. I want to use the design you suggested to Turion - making one-half coil to more number of coils to get better voltages.

Using a Three Pole design as a motor is a good idea...but, about the design I suggested to Turion...I do not think that he ever finished it...at least I never saw it running.

This design was "Hypothetical, Theoretical"...I do not believe it was ever built by other members here.

Commutators also I am making. They will be ready by tomorrow.

I bought Nylon bearings to mount these rotors. The supporting walls ( to hold the bearings) also I am keeping in fiberglass.

Thought of going for a fiber shaft as well. But 14 mm dia shaft was not available. I found 12.5mm and 16mm dia rods. But my turner didn't recommend them as while turning - he is suspecting - it might bend because of its length. So only for shaft I went for Bright Steel.

In case keeping a coupling between these two rotors is ok, then I can replace the shaft also with fiberglass or acrylic, if you recommend to go for a non-metallic shaft.

In such case, only metal in the machine will be copper in windings and commutators and brass in carbon brushes holders.

Tomorrow by noon, everything will be ready for winding sir.

Sounds great Kumar!...waiting to take a look at it soon...

Please guide me regarding the wire gauge in SWG, single or bifilar ( for both rotors and stator) and desired resistance in the windings.

Kumar...please...you make questions on help...without giving me the power source Voltage and Amperage you are planning to use on this motor(s)...?

Ohms Law could help you keep the "Equation Balanced"...as far as resistance for stators...having V and A to be utilized at source...

Stator wire gauge must be finer than rotor, (higher resistance) in order to lower amps/heat, other words, balance "equation"...since Stator Coils will not be "refreshing/switching" between higher number of coils per turn...as Rotor does.

Stators Coils Number= 2?...4?
Rotor Coils= 12?...15?

So, even if you are pulsing them with low voltages...Stator Coils must be of higher resistance than rotor coils.

There is another balance that you must do also Kumar...Magnetic Field Strength balancing between Stators and Rotor Coils...in order to achieve a robust rotation/force (talking about motors though)...it is understood that if you have wound stators...things are more complicated for balancing/testing purposes.

I tried to understand how many strands of coil(19 SWG / 18 AWG) can be put in a single pole of 12-pole rotor. I was able to keep more than 70 strands. And one turn length is coming to one meter.

I got lost here Kumar, strands/turns...what is this?

After you read my previous post from Turion Generator design...you may change your mind...but, anyways...the multiple strands of wire I spoke once here...was dedicated to Motors...not Generators, Kumar...and of course...if you are using so many strands...then, a much finer gauge than 18-19 AWG must be utilized....as it would be impossible to get many number of turns with 18 awg.

Please, do not confuse strands with number of turns...use a "T" for Turns.

About the 3-pole rotor, I didn't try how many strands of wire sit? But can say that 1 pole is at least 3.5 times more in space against 1 pole space of 12-P rotor. So might accommodate about 250 strands ( of 19 SWG / 18 AWG). And one turn is coming to 25 cm in length. So 4 turns are making a meter.

Now, I did get confused here..."How many strands the wire sits"?!...250 strands?... ...OR did You mean TURNS?

Here also till the driver is ready, I want to power the stator and rotors with different commutators.

Hope you will enjoy seeing the machine sir.

Regards and Namaste

Kumar

On a final note Kumar, I see you are using plastics and soft materials for this build...so, am hoping it would be just a Testing Model for demonstration purposes ...and NOT some everyday use application you are going to be using this machines for... right?

And please Kumar...re read/re check your posts before pressing your "Submit Reply" button...Your posts are full of questions Kumar...on machines that are built "from scratch" and for the first time on this Thread...there are parameters missing required to get you right answers...on top of that Kumar, you are trying to make a "Fusion" of Two Machines (Motor and Generator) with a common shaft...plus the Fiberglass Stator Design...resuming here...I believe you did not read a reply I gave to a member here (Shylo)...:

Hello Shylo and thanks,

Shylo, sorry but it is NOT recommended to start on a high end pole motor configuration like a 16 poles, (guessing , cause you did not mentioned it...with Four Stators and Four Brushes) without even building a simple and inexpensive Five Pole miniature motor from Radio Shack or any other place like Gold Mine Motors site.

Once that you Build a Five Pole (P5 SERIES, NOT Single or Dual Pentagon Type) which have extensive material on my site and on this Thread...Then You will get the "Asymmetric Modular Pair Sequencing Basics"...and this experience would be required and fundamental to expand into any P# Series Winding, including a P28 Imperial.

It is very difficult and not guaranteed that you could jump right into a P16 and expect to do it perfectly well the first time...besides, you will be taking very precious time from many experienced and working members in more advanced models at this point...plus filling the thread with already displayed/existing old material.

But, then again, we are all "grown up" here right?......and You could do as you please...besides, everybody is different...you may have a lot of previous experience in winding motors from before...or maybe you are just brilliant in making "something" from scratch...only YOU know your capabilities friend...

Now, Shylo "only" wanted to make an Asymmetric 16 poles permanent magnet motor...just like the one Turion built...NOT such complicated set up like you are building here Kumar...So, mathematically speaking...I will dedicate to you, Kumar, same response as above to Shylo...but elevated to the 10th exponential.

I just can wish you good luck friend.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[µHenry]

First contact

Hi UFO et all,
Just a quick message to let you all know that another lurker who found his way to this thread has started replication. I'm new to all this. I converted two motors (starting with four) to assymetry. Small 1$ ones 3V. Interesting to say the least. I'm not into videos and uploading stuff and such, but I can corroborate most of what has been posted here. I will post and upload new findings, measurements etc if I think it will add something usefull or new to the material presented here. If I don't, it's because most has been said and done already and I don't want to add bloat to this amazing thread.
Also, a word of thanks to ALL involved in posting on this thread. I've read through all of it, wading through murk and beauty. Very interesting; the beauty and smallness of the human condition exposed side by side. Quite some characters around here. UFO not in the least. But I understand. Quirky, intelligent people thinking for themselves and interacting...can give quite some sparks. (free energy anyone?) I felt instantly at home kinda.
So keep up the good work. I'll go on with bigger gear and try to make some useful item like reworking a cordless drill or something before trying to make me a good bicycle motor (250W max according to regulations here).
Anyway, big thumbs up to all involved here, early birds and followers.
The machinealives, dadhavs, kogs, sampojos, midaztouchz, prochiros, johnstones etc etc. Awesome!!! Count me in. If I come across something worthwhile I'll let you all know. I'll even learn to make vids and upload them.
Meanwhile, I crawl back into the woodwork following you all from a distance.
Main problem round here is machining. Have to glue cases, have to find shafts etc. I took apart most of the fans, blenders, vacuum cleaners, pumps, hairdryers around the house but no immediate success so far.(have some time cause out of job right now, but no money whatsoever). Will check automotive brushed DCs later on. Keep it up you all! Cheers.

[iankoglin]

G'day uHenry
Nice to have you come here, even though you may not have excellent results it is good to load some pictures so everyone active or just lurking may benefit from what you have achieved or where you may not have so good results remember there is a saying ""every picture is worth a thousand words"" so please borrow a camera and take some pictures post them here and explain exactly what you have done.

Kindest regards Is it Henry

[µHenry]

some pics of replication motors

Hi Kogs, thank you for your wise words. You are right of course. So here are some pics I just took. On the left in first one the two conversions. These motors are very small and fiddly to work on. Brushes are flimsy copperfoil.
I rewound the original wire onto them: 185cm of 0.2mm giving 0.6Ohm thereabouts in 60T. CCW Coils connected to opposite commutatortabs.
The original motor draws like 200mA (no load; no idea how much under load)..
Modified I get anything from 250mA no load to beyond 1A at stalling.
Less sparking at brushes, much higher RPM (no measures), some more torque and most of all less heat production (subjective, no measurements).
I am ashamed of the poor craftmanship (that's why I didn't want to publish the pics really, seeing the beautiful realisations you guys are capable off). Tuning is extremely fussy. Short shaftlength reduces further testing possibilities. One of the shafts has been exchanged for a slightly longer one from a defunct shaving device. I attempted coupling them by means of some plastic tube from a pen but shaftlength prevents this. But in the few seconds that I got it working I was able to interconnect them as per UFO graphs.
So next I plan converting the slightly bigger 12V version (shown in pic) when I find a 2.24mm shaft of sufficient length. These have carbon brushes.
Can't seem to find 5 poles around here. So after that I will be forced to deal with 8,12,18or22 pole designs, as that's what's available around here from universal motors. But then I'll have to pulse the stators...so I'll have to make me a pulser...later on. Meanwhile (given correct shafts) I'd like a measurement setup with a bunch of the 12V-ers. They'd have slight variations like bifilar etc. to try to get to the gist of it all before moving on to bigger ones. I am impatient to get big ones going, but I see easily a year of testing small ones as the better option to gain that needed hands on experience and insight. I own an old Tektronix 453 scope so I could dig some deeper and post results and pics.
By the way, does anyone here have access to a Power (Quality) Analyser?
Fluke have nice ones, bet they cost a fortune. Just curious what the results would look like: these analysers are made for the symmetry world. Could we learn something from their results? They might help us tune our motors by showing more of the electrical side of things internally. Just wondering. I know nothing, that much I do.
That'a about it for now.
Hope this works with the pics. Bit convoluted... let's see if we see...

Anyway thanks Kogs,I hope this answers what you asked.
Kind regards. µH

http://www.energeticforum.com/attach...1&d=1391959234
http://www.energeticforum.com/attach...1&d=1391959265
http://www.energeticforum.com/attach...1&d=1391959332

[µHenry]

muzings on gear

Hi there,
it works to get the pics up, phew...
so there you go. In this pic the small rotor in front is a 22p22c2b2s universal from a cyclone vacuum cleaner. 1800W zillion RPM like. I"m buggered if I can get the windings off of it. Sealed plastic frame of sorts, wedges and all. Any ideas? Can hardly put it in the chimney, can I? Thought it might be interesting, maybe using 21 poles in 7 formation and one pole wired short upon itself for improved selfstarting or such.
Who knows if I don't try it?
The other one, the biggy is some AEG universal with nice brushes 18p18c2b2s from a washing machine. 2kW? The thing even comes equiped with a sensorcoil and had some ferrite ring or magnet on the shaft, no doubt for rpm control. Can I use this?
The poles being angled, non aligned with rotoraxis, can do or no go for UFO style conversion?
Of course I'll have to tackle the bearings and such...I'm lousy at these things: I ruined the shaft of the small one trying to dislodge the bearing.
Some help from a machine shop is in order here if I'm serious about it all. But the thing looks promising to me. Sturdy. And already unwound! Was easy, this one.
I could pulse it (would have to).
I have one of them old Purple Ray Machines,and was thinking that I could maybe accommodate it as the needed pulser. It's an electrotherapy device from the twenties. Impressively unsafe device with mains all over the thing.
When used, if the violet ray doesn't cure you, the uninevitable electroshocks most surely would. Anyway, that's just me ramblin about...
UFO,Kogs and all, you got me going, thanks. And hello erfinder, glad to see you back on these pages too in such high mood.Thank you too, for adding to the rich high quality of this thread. Wading through it all was enthralling, like a thick and very good book with lots of characters. Definitely worth it. Working on the other UFO threads now. And discovering the rest of the forum. Great job, great place. I love it. Regards to all. µH