My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[iankoglin]

G'day Sampojo
Just remember if the motor is designed to go CCW and you just reverse the polarity the motor WILL NOT run as efficient
Kindest Regards


Kogs keeping an eye open

[Cornboy 555]

WOW Kogs, after watching your slide show,i can see why you have Sawdust, all over the Imperial, Or should i call it Nessie dust, maybe Magic dust.

What a masterpiece you have created there, can you really road register it?

Are rules the same nationally in AUS?. Does it have to comply with OUR strict ADR's.

Great work Friend.

Cornboy.

[menace22]

Hello Menace22, are you wanting custom design laminations?, or standard small motor laminations?.

Regards Cornboy.

i want to build the motor from scratch...
im guessing custom is really expensive...
how about standard ? cant seem to find those either...

thank you both

[Cadman]

@ Kogs,

Beautiful work on that trike!

In the interest of safety... I have a riding mower differential that looks exactly like the one in your trike, please check and make sure your disc brake is connected to the same end shaft as your drive sprocket, that they cannot rotate independently from each other.

IF your diff is the same as mine, braking on the left wheel with the motor under power will try to turn your trike hard left.


Best regards

[Ufopolitics]

G'day UFO and Team
@UFO I did Just as I thought you said
Try Pulsing this Motor with the old 555 oscillator you excited your coils
I just connected the motor to the output of the coils but on reading again I think you meant to just use the 555 timer Oscillator
I have this connected permanently connected to the CLF bulbs a unit I will try again later I am so busy at the moment trying to finish my Tricycle as I think I have an extra Job (paying one) pending

Here is some pics what I am working on
The Building Of My Tricycle Slideshow by Kogs1 | Photobucket
I have just dismantled it as I have to epoxy it all over with 2 coats then paint it.

I have built is so it will carry 2 people My test driver said she wants to call it Nessie and paint it GreenI don't know why
To be able to run this on the road I need to meet road regulations and therefore it must have mudguards Head and tail and Indicator lights and adequate braking and it must not fall apart If I do not want to register it must be equal under 250wattsor less this being a 1000w motor after modification it will run @24v or 36v drawing say 5 amps perhaps under load say 6 amps

We will see and
Kindest Regards

Hey Kogs,

Beautiful Tricycle!!...A work of Art!...I can tell you do can MASTER wood crafting!

On the TEST#1, I suggested to just do direct/straight feeding from batteries (no pulsing) as shown on Diagram 1, based on a simple switch ON/OFF.

You already did #2 on your Motors.

One question, what controller are you using to run Nessie, and how is your circuit of Input/Generator connected ?

Reason is...I want to help you on this...that is why asking/insisting about Test#1...

I believe you should lay down a whole circuit with switches and all to be in your dashboard or center console...


ONE VERY IMPORTANT ISSUE KOGS

Be extremely careful mixing Electric Motors operation with a shop or place full of Wood shavings or wood dust!!...I heard you saying that your Imperial is full of it...and when running it it created lot of sparking.

Please be aware that just a spark loose could set fire on your whole thing...

My advice:

Do an exhaustive Vacuum Cleaning in all motors and the whole shop, before starting any electrical machine, basically ours that are brush types.

Have very handy, near your electrical working bench, and in different ends of your shop...some good Fire Extinguishers.

Please take all kind of safety measures.

Regards Dear Friend


Ufopolitics

[GChilders]

@Kogs
Love the work your doing on your trike. The only possible weakness that I can see is the area by the front fork. That short grain will not take much of an impact without cracking. I noticed on the one side you have a plywood panel that will reinforce this short grain. I definitely recommend that this not be a removeable panel at least the top half. Should be glued and clamped to give that short grain the strength that it needs. Both sides highly recommended. It is amazing the stress that even 35 to 40 mph can put on the frame of a bicycle. Any way just my two cents worth. Good luck with the project.

@all
I am having a situation with my setup that I am wondering if anyone else has run into. Here is the problem that I have been struggling with for about two weeks now. My motor is rock solid, my pulsers are rock solid and it seems that the Arduino is doing the job that it is supposed to do except in one area. I noticed early on that I was having problems with the communication protocols early in the testing. It seemed that early in the startup everything would work as it was supposed to, but then the serial monitor would seem to lock up and I was not getting anything from the Arduino back to the laptop. I rewrote the program multiple times and still had the same problem. This was especially noticeable when I was attempting to get the optical tachometer working. At first I thought it was the wiring of the optical tach and so I stripped everything out of the standard breadboard that I was using and created a stand alone tachometer. It would start off returning the rpm to me and after 6 to 10 reports a second apart it would stop sending the information. Now I had both an lcd on board and a serial monitor on the computer. After 15 to 20 seconds I would start getting what are commonly called artifacts on video screens. Garbage would fill the lcd, totally unintelligible. So I slept on the problem and decided to test the circuit and the program without the asymmetrical motor. I hooked up my hand drill and put the timing disc on a shaft chucked it up and everything worked perfectly. It was feeding back the rpms almost perfectly matching my handheld infrared tachometer. Then I took the asymmetrical motor and removed from the mount and decided to test it like the hand drill. I noticed something very curious at this point. I did not have to hold the disc to break the light beam as the mere running of the motor was causing the sensor to be activated. After testing for a few hours these are the findings that I observed. 1.) The higher the voltage being fed to the motor the greater the effect of the motor on the sensor. 2.) The closer to the sensor at low voltage the greater the effect. At 24 volts distance up to 2 feet seemed to have no noticeable effect at all. This is perplexing because I want to use the tachometer to test all of the other parts of the performance of the machine. Does anyone have any idea why the asymmetrical motor has this effect on the circuit and the symmetrical motor does not and is there a cure for this problem.

Cheers

Garry

[iankoglin]

Kogs update

@Kogs
Love the work your doing on your trike. The only possible weakness that I can see is the area by the front fork. That short grain will not take much of an impact without cracking. I noticed on the one side you have a plywood panel that will reinforce this short grain. I definitely recommend that this not be a removeable panel at least the top half. Should be glued and clamped to give that short grain the strength that it needs. Both sides highly recommended. It is amazing the stress that even 35 to 40 mph can put on the frame of a bicycle. Any way just my two cents worth. Good luck with the project.


Cheers

Garry

G'day All the team
@ Garry
The gooseneck is made of 20mm(3/4inch) plywood both sides one side is removable with lots of screws so I can place the electronics in side the top half the part where the tube for the front wheel is filled with Epoxy.

I have found when working with Radiant energy that even my clamp amp meter is effected from some 5 or 6 feet away and when I was charging batteries using my radiant solid state charger even the batteries near it are receiving a charge sometimes

@ Menace22
I suggest that first you buy 2 small Tandy motors or 2 Goldmine motors and modify them into one asymmetrically first show your build get it going if you have any problems we will help you. Starting a scratch build without experience with the Asymmetric build will only cause problems we con not help if you do a scratch build.

@ Cornboy
One definition of married man is someone who makes the same mistake Once when he does it the second time he usually gets it right but not everyone some make the same mistake everytime.
I really know how you feel I went through the same thing after being married for 20 years she wanted me to buy her half of the business she said was worth $1m I just closed it down and after another 4 years I got it right I am now happily married for 32 years My test driver is 1 in a million Don't tell her but I am now looking for 1 in 2 million but I think that one is the one already married to me

Here is the Victorian state Regs still applicable
http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/NR/rd...6D7/0/VSI4.pdf

@ Cadman
Thanks for your suggestion the axle is a peerless brand with a Limited slip differential It is designed so when that diff itself is driven by the motor and when normally driving both axles from it drive the wheels and when going around a corner it allows one axle to go slower than the other and also no matter which axle is stopped the other will continue to drive its wheel. So whichever wheel has the brake if the powering of the diff is still on the other wheel will still drive and of course like you said will turn to the braked side.
To overcome this the Design rules say that all wheels have to be braked. I already am making the second brake for the other shaft

@ UFO
I will do the tests you asked me to do BUT first I will finish Nessie then clean up my workshop do the tests and if the other pending job comes off I will have to finish that before I do anything else.

Kindest Regards to you all

Kogs still at it

[Cornboy 555]

@ Kogs, thanks for those words, i too, have found someone very special, with amazing qualities,ie Kind, Generous etc, she even loves to help with the electrical stuff.

@ Garry, , i fried my Harley's alarm system, 10 ft away, from some early high powered spark gap experiments.

Just remember we are dealing with energy release and multiplication, with brushes as mechanical switches, they always give off noise that will upset, sensitive chip technology, and in the worst case, radio frequencies, that are detectable.

Tachoncatcher, on the 3BGS thread said a good way to absorb these emmisions, is to wind some large flat Tesla bifilar coils and place them around you experiments.

I am not sure how commercial high powered EV brushed motors are dampened, or if they need to be.

Maybe someone else here could enlighten us.

Regards Cornboy.

[sampojo]

RE: Childers post 6283

Garry, sounds like some strong RF interference, from the coil BEMF I do imagine, and the Radiant Energy too, but I do think the optocoupler should well isolate the arduino from that in the Monster driver. Better ask for John Stone's opinion. Maybe any unshielded wires on signal pickup are acting like antennas.

[GChilders]

radiant energy

@all
I went through a number of possibilities in my mind and tried to eliminate them one by one. First I thought that the cause could be that the motor was vibrating the stand and causing there to be a break in the beam due to the vibrations. This is why I removed the motor from the stand and then I noticed that when I started the motor the beam was being broken. So then I thought that maybe the cause was the brushes and that I could use the brushes to break the signal in the same way that we use the fan blades. I have a five pole rotor so I divided the rpm formula by five and disconnected the infrared led. This actually worked pretty well until the batteries got a little weak. I have recharged the batteries and will try the experiment again tomorrow. I suspect that radiant energy releases energy in the infrared range and that the photo transistor is picking up these signals when the electromagnetic field is collapsing or it could be rf interference.

Well more tomorrow. Thanks for the input everyone.

Cheers,

Garry

[Cornboy 555]

Yep Garry, just don't try getting a suntan in front of your motor.

Cornboy.

[iankoglin]

Kogs Trike Update

Hey Kogs,

Beautiful Tricycle!!...A work of Art!...I can tell you do can MASTER wood crafting!

On the TEST#1, I suggested to just do direct/straight feeding from batteries (no pulsing) as shown on Diagram 1, based on a simple switch ON/OFF.

You already did #2 on your Motors.

One question, what controller are you using to run Nessie, and how is your circuit of Input/Generator connected ?

Reason is...I want to help you on this...that is why asking/insisting about Test#1...

I believe you should lay down a whole circuit with switches and all to be in your dashboard or center console...

Regards Dear Friend

Ufopolitics

G'day UFO
I have been Busy nearly finished Nessie. I have finished painting it and now I have to fit the Fan to cool the electronics and take it to the Bike shop for Vanessa the bicycle mechanic to fit and adjust the brakes.

I have to finish making a new 555 6 Mosfet UFO driver to do the tests as you have asked. I still have to set up the Voltage reducer and oscillator to make sure they work properly then fit them into Nessie's Neck.

I am anxious to see it running but I still have to make the Mudguards fit the lights front rear and indicators before I can take it on the road to test. As Yesterday the Police chased a say 12 year old kid who was speeding up and down my road with his OFF Road 150cc ? motor bike they did not go fast as there is really no where for him to go but he jumped off his bike and fled through the houses on foot they could not find him

I still have to modify the motor to do these tests I have to connect in series the Gen output. as they are still as they came from the factory.
I will do these tests this coming week and do another Video.

I have also purchased a small unit that gives me the speed and Volts of battery and Klms done here it is here

4 in1 Battery Voltage Speed Pulse Frequency Odometer Voltmeter for Scooter Bike | eBay

I am pleased to spend this money doing this project as after doing the first Tandy motor I could see the advantages of these motors and am so sure that they will work as you have suggested.

Kindest regards and thank you My friend

Kogs almost there

[SkyWatcher]

a say 12 year old kid who was speeding up and down my road with his OFF Road 150cc ? motor bike they did not go fast as there is really no where for him to go but he jumped off his bike and fled through the houses on foot they could not find him

now that's the SPIRIT we need more of.
The people own the roads, not these self proclaimed false authority figures.
No harm to anothers body or stuff, then they should all stay at home or go eat some more doughnuts, or actually do something to help others, instead of pretending to be of help and stealing peoples money.
God be with us.
peace love light

[Ufopolitics]

Great friend!

G'day UFO
I have been Busy nearly finished Nessie. I have finished painting it and now I have to fit the Fan to cool the electronics and take it to the Bike shop for Vanessa the bicycle mechanic to fit and adjust the brakes.

I have to finish making a new 555 6 Mosfet UFO driver to do the tests as you have asked. I still have to set up the Voltage reducer and oscillator to make sure they work properly then fit them into Nessie's Neck.

I am anxious to see it running but I still have to make the Mudguards fit the lights front rear and indicators before I can take it on the road to test. As Yesay the Police chased a say 12 year old kid who was speeding up and down my road with his OFF Road 150cc ? motor bike they did not go fast as there is really no where for him to go but he jumped off his bike and fled through the houses on foot they could not find him

I still have to modify the motor to do these tests I have to connect in series the Gen output. as they are still as they came from the factory.
I will do these tests this coming week and do another Video.

I have also purchased a small unit that gives me the speed and Volts of battery and Klms done here it is here

4 in1 Battery Voltage Speed Pulse Frequency Odometer Voltmeter for Scooter Bike | eBay

I am pleased to spend this money doing this project as after doing the first Tandy motor I could see the advantages of these motors and am so sure that they will work as you have suggested.

Kindest regards and thank you My friend

Kogs almost there

Excellent my friend Kogs!


Glad you are almost finished with Nessie!!...

Looking forward to see all those beauties running fast, as well as the rest of testings to come!!

On the Computerized Digital processor you are getting from EBAY...make sure it comes with the speed sensors as well...I saw quite a few cables there...

Yes friend, They do run very well...and take you much faster than the original symmetric ones...that I guarantee...plus the normal running time they render exceeds expectations...and that is without connecting any "retro-fit" energy output circuitry back into batteries...


Regards Friend


Ufopolitics

[iankoglin]

Hey Kogs,

Beautiful Tricycle!!...A work of Art!...I can tell you do can MASTER wood crafting!

On the TEST#1, I suggested to just do direct/straight feeding from batteries (no pulsing) as shown on Diagram 1, based on a simple switch ON/OFF.

You already did #2 on your Motors.

One question, what controller are you using to run Nessie, and how is your circuit of Input/Generator connected ?

Reason is...I want to help you on this...that is why asking/insisting about Test#1...

I believe you should lay down a whole circuit with switches and all to be in your dashboard or center console...


Regards Dear Friend


Ufopolitics

G'day UFO
Today I have almost finished Nessie I am waiting for one rear Brake calliper and handbrake handles for the handle bars 1 single for the front brake and one double for the rear wheels brake and also a tensioner to keep the chain wrapped around further on the small sprocket on the motor so the chain will not jump off.

Now as regards to the testing you have suggested
The motor connections to the 4 brushes is as from the factory 2x 2 parallel with this setup the amps draw is only 0.2 amps and under load is less than 6 amps.
I made a new 6 Mosfet controller the same as I used in my coil pulsing circuit to light the 5 CLF bulbs it was drawing 0.2A @ nominal 36v no load speed was around 1800RPM? (the meter I could not adjust exactly)under load using the 2 sticks of wood was 5A the motor was very hard to slow down.
I have wired up just temporary connection#1 as you suggested so I made sure I understood what you are saying the amps draw was 1 amp and the output was fluctuating between 50v 78v I did not measure the revs
When I put a load by jamming the shaft with 2 sticks of wood the amps jumped off the 10 amp scale the Mosfets were cool still and the motor was cool

You have suggested that I have the generator brushes wired so the 2 generator windings are in series.

I will now clean up my workshop so I can have room for my video producer can get some more practice when she takes some videos of my testing.

Please UFO if you have any comments with regarding the testing please let me know ASAP outlining what testing you would like me to do as I intend to do the serial mod to the motor and then test it I would like to do all the testing in one video perhaps starting before the serial Generator mod if you desire for me to do so.

There is at Cavendish a local town probably 150k away on the 30th of March a "SHOW US YOUR WHEELS & TOYS DAY" its like a Trash and Treasure Swap meet If I have it finished by then I may take Nessie there and show her off.

I thank you for all your time spent to showing what you have discovered and have disclosed to us.
I am anxious to see what you have in store for us in the future I know my self that I would like to build one of the latest designs you have put up for all to see but unfortunately I am quickly running out of $$ I need some paying work to continue these projects.

Kindest Regards to you my friend


Kogs progressing Slowly