My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[Cornboy 555]

Thanks Everyone, for help on viewing YOUTUBE, i downloaded latest flash player, still went to Real Player, then because Brian 516's, sugestion seemed the next most simple thing to try, i downloaded Kingsoft PC Doctor, and bingo, UFO's vid comes up on YOUTUBE AU now, with excellent quality. I will watch your video tonight UFO, thanks.

Warm Regards, Cornboy.

[shylo]

12 groups

Hi All, I have 12 groups wound , this motor runs cold, and draws very little.

UFO, The stator magnets are the field of main concern, they never change??
G1 & G11 see the same , G6 & G16 see the same ,but opposite of 1 & 11.
So 1 11 6 16 are the same group??
How do you wind a group?
Everything I wind is CW ,....I wind four poles of the rotor ( 1 to 4 ), 20 turns, On the return to 1 , I stop short at pole 2 , and proceed to wind 20 turns ( 2 to 5 ) and so on.

This is the first motor I've run that doesn't draw batteries down when a load is applied.

Forgot to mention I found the groups need to fire with a space , it gets too hot one after the next.

I tried winding the groups , one after the next , but I think they need room to collapse?
Sorry I can't be of any help.
artv

[GChilders]

goldmine motor

@ Zardox

This is an old link but it still works, unfortunately the price has changed!!

Electronic Goldmine - 12VDC Motor

cheers

Garry

[GChilders]

new video

@ufoPolitics

Wow!! Once again totally blown away, and utterly amazed!! What a performance that little motor gave. 44,000 rpm on 12 volts, simply unbelievable performance with the new wind. Can't wait to take the motors that I just got today and try out this new wind on the goldmine.
you are the master and we all learn together on this journey. Thanks for sharing.

Cheers Garry

[marxist]

Hi ufo,

thanks for your latest video that shows the diffence in performance between an NN-pair 5-pole RS motor and the old NS-pair type.

But let's look at the idea of expanding NN-pairs into NN-groups:

Above I have done only G1(Blue) and G10 (leaving contact at Brush "M" according to rotation) in Aqua Blue...

Note what I wrote before...Each Group overlaps the next...LOOK AT G2 Coil(1) is EXACTLY wound where G1 Coil(2) is...this makes an awesome "continuation" of transferring power from one Group to the next...and so on and on...

I agree about the awesome field continuity.
However, your last drawing also makes it clear that in a 2-stator 10-pole motor not just two coils will overlap but 5 will, if I am not mistaken.
This is a lot of overlapping copper winds, considering that only one group and the next will be energized simultaneously at any point in time - that is two of the 5 overlaps, if my understanding is correct.

It will be real difficult to fit all the wire, unless one uses very thin gauges - see shylo's awesome work.
It should first be explored if it is really feasible to wind so many coils above each other or whether it is not better to stick to low number groups, i.e. groups of two, i.e. pairs, like in the NN-pair 5-pole RS motor shown in your video.
That is guaranteed to work and it will already give good field continuity.
In my understanding it is good advice that you give, when you caution people to first wind small motors in the group style before attempting bigger machines.

I have not quite understood: Is it good to work with thin wire to raise the resistance per coil? In that case groups may be the way to go.
But I think field-strength is related to (high) amperage, and we need high field strength for high torque, no? So we need (relatively) thick wire !?

[Zardox]

Thanks

Thanks for the link Garry. I think I'll order a few of those. I have been collecting motors for quite some time now but don't have two of the same kind. I don't want to do another RS motor.

[Ufopolitics]

Acceleration Under Load...

Hello to All,

Here, finally am done uploading this Video now related to the same Five Pole Structure...but using another Rotor winding Spec's...higher Resistance, lower Amperage Draw...still showing the "Effects"...basically the ACCELERATION UNDER LOAD...we get out of this so little Machine...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yInb...ature=youtu.be

Hope You enjoy it...


Regards to All


Ufopolitics

[sampojo]

figuring coil wire lengths

It seems that everyone is putting a whole lot of time and effort into figuring out what size wire and how many wraps of it to use for optimal performance.... is there any way we can come up with some formulas to calculate this?? I used to be one heck of a math whiz before I let myself get sucked into the underworld, so I have to gain that back now. I'm working on it now, but I need to get my hands on some books to speed up the process. I'm going to work on the formula idea, but I'm definitely going to need info I don't have yet in order to do so, so if it is possible, which I believe it is, I'll do my best to figure it out..... unless there already is something out there? it seems to me that all that is really going to be needed is some sort of value put to the CEMF.....???

Brian, Its a little math and a little seat of the pants thing. We usually increase the wire used to be about 2ga more maybe 3. I look at the amount of wire you take off the motor and then the amount of space on an area basis that the manufacturer left open in the armature, perhaps for cooling. We want our armatures completely stuffed with copper except for perhaps leaving room for a fence to keep wire from flying out of the armature. For most experimental motors epoxe could be relied upon to hold the wire in. So I eyeball the space and estimate it and then add to the length of the wire, 25% (5/4ths increase). Then I look at the percent change of area from the new wire gauge used, and apply that percentage increase to the wire length again. Then divide by the number of poles for the length of wire to be used on any one coil "group" now. So with this you go ahead and start winding the coils. As you go always eyeball the amount of space in the pole gaps with the number of poles remaining. If it looks like they are filling up to fast you have overestimated the length of the coils. Unwind shorten and start over. The whole point of getting a good estimate of the needed length is to not have to redo the winding, very time consuming.

[iankoglin]

Cornman - you might want to check into Kingsoft PC Doctor and Super Anti-spyware free edition. they are what I use to get all the junk off my pc. Kingsoft does a killer job getting all the temp files, cookies, and most of the spyware/malware off, plus optimizing, and Super Anti takes care of the rest for me. Both are free. Just make sure you download them from their home-pages and nowhere else unless u want the extra junk and toolbars and maybe viruses.....


It seems that everyone is putting a whole lot of time and effort into figuring out what size wire and how many wraps of it to use for optimal performance.... is there any way we can come up with some formulas to calculate this?? I used to be one heck of a math whiz before I let myself get sucked into the underworld, so I have to gain that back now. I'm working on it now, but I need to get my hands on some books to speed up the process. I'm going to work on the formula idea, but I'm definitely going to need info I don't have yet in order to do so, so if it is possible, which I believe it is, I'll do my best to figure it out..... unless there already is something out there? it seems to me that all that is really going to be needed is some sort of value put to the CEMF.....???

G'day Brian
When I have a bare armature ready to wind I take the estimated wire gauge and wind fully the slots for one Pole pair (when you wind the wire you must pull the wire very tight for every portion of turn) Counting each turn)so you know how many total turns for this wire gauge. Then for this type of winding I divide the total turns by 4 and this is the number of turns for each Half pair. You can use this wire still if you carefully un wind it

Kindest Regards
Kogs At Work Photo by Kogs1 | Photobucket

[Zardox]

video

I noticed in the video when the bulb was lit that when the amps went up the voltage went down slightly and the motor increased speed. I am wondering what kind of effect a machanical load would have.

[Ufopolitics]

The Magnificence of Three...Part Two

Ok, so now let's see the Mechanical Properties...or could say "attributes" to the Three Poles Structure in Asymmetrical fashion...

[IMG][/IMG]

We do not need here to represent the Coil (s)...just the Steel Core...plus the mechanical elements needed for analysis...even though, we need to consider the Copper Mass from all Three Coils related to their "specific" angles positioning during rotation...however, that would be a pretty long post...that belongs to a Big Book Chapter...not for here...

So, let's make it simple...

N1 Coil when activated develop a force F1, based on a dual action, repulse-attract...which is simultaneously "reinforced" by a redirection of its South Polarity to S-1A and S-1B outer circumference of "South Hemisphere" of rotor core, producing a force F2.

In calculation of Forces versus Mass, we need that the Sum of F1+F2 or Total Electromagnetic Force generated by N1, be able to displace the Total Sum Weight of Copper Coils Mass plus their related Steel Cores from N2+N3...braking the Inertia Forces, plus, if positioned as Diagram, with Horizontal intermittent Green Line (which is also the Stators Bisectors Line) Gravity Forces would be opposing...

Looking at the Mechanical aspects of this operation...we realize that N2 + N3 Total Mass and Volume displacement, is serving as Counterweight Balance to N1 Mass...and, after passing vertical center line to "unbalance" will help assist following sequentially positioned Coils... and assisted by Gravity.

We then must realize that once N1 is disconnected...N2 will be replacing N1 ...and so on for N3...then repeat back to N1...

And if we consider N1/N2/N3 as a "Modular Structure"...we could then expand modules into more complex number of Interactions...while using same or common Static Side...or Stators.

Unfortunately...the way I see this "Magnificence of Three" to be achieved...we need that North Firing Coils could "Exhaust" their South Poles through an "Open Space"...meaning, not having a "Mirror Effect" right at 180º apart...that would actually cancel this "Free" amplification/redirection...and I said "unfortunately" just because -SO FAR- this same "effect" could not be "Symmetrically" reproduced or Mirror Imaged on a Four Stator , Four Brush System.

The "Good News" are that we could expand into Multiples of Three more complex structures...and just swap (Two) Stators to become N-N-S-S...plus we could wind groups instead of single coils...

We could also "Linearly" expand Sequences through a longer shaft...that no necessarily need to be within the 2D Circumferential Setting we have up to now...

I believe many of you could figure out the way Forces are on for the Five Poles, as disadvantages...however, whenever I have a chance I will make Diagram.


Regards...and sorry for such long couple of posts...


Ufopolitics


EDIT: @ Midaz and all Imperial owners: Do not feel bad about this two posts...Imperial makes a P66 (66/3= 22...)...that I helped a Member (can't remember his name here, think was Donald Haas) to wind it in the old fashion...I will find him (or you guys help me) ...to make a "total recall" on that future Monster...We need to know if armature has same diameter...and will fit into the P56 Housing...plus pictures...

[Cornboy 555]

[IMG][/IMG]

Ahhhhhh, UFO, Simplicity, love it.

I originally was going to scratch build a large three pole, mainly because of the winding simplicity, and the shear volume of heavy gauge wire you can fit on a rotor like that.

With my MAG3 it would be easy to have 100 x 2mm laminations cut to three pole design, and simply wind the 6 stators to 1xnorth and 1xsouth.

Of course i won't and cant rush into this just yet.

One Question arises from the image above friend, When N1 is first energised, would N3 be in repell mode with south stator before the rotor bisector is past halfway, causing momentary opposition to rotation, or does Gravity an rotary momentum, take over??.

Thanks for all you are doing here UFO,

Warm Regards Cornboy.

[Midaztouch]

@ UFO

EDIT: @ Midaz and all Imperial owners: Do not feel bad about this two posts...Imperial makes a P66 (66/3= 22...)...that I helped a Member (can't remember his name here, think was Donald Haas) to wind it in the old fashion...I will find him (or you guys help me) ...to make a "total recall" on that future Monster...We need to know if armature has same diameter...and will fit into the P56 Housing...plus pictures...

As far as the p66 goes. The length is too short and the diameter is too thick to fit in the p56 frame. I'm trying to work something out already. Keep doing your thing!


Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz

[Cornboy 555]

Hey Midas, it wouldn't be so hard, to make a new rotor to fit the imperial, and just rearrange the magnets to suit.

If someone took it on and it was successfull, maybe they could be mass produced cheaply!!.

Thinking out loud, Regards Cornboy.

PS. Won't be at my computer again till friday night my time.

Take Care Everybody.

[GChilders]

new wind

@ufoPolitics

ufo I have stripped the 6 motors from goldmine and put the armatures and commutators on a new shaft and have 3 rotors ready to wind. I just wanted to clear up the wind in my mind because you said something about interleaving the area in the center and also 3 coils. Here is how I see it please correct me if I am wrong. Connect to the top commutator P1 come around rotor P5 continue down slot to bottom of rotor in clockwise direction wind around P1 up on slot left of P1 and then clockwise down on right side of P1 to the bottom of the rotor and then in clockwise direction come up on the slot left of P2 and then in clockwise direction down on slot to right of P1 to bottom of rotor and then up slot to left of P1 continuing to wind clockwise to the slot to the right of P5 and now we are where we started and do this 30 times and then tie off at bottom commutator p1. I think that is right.

Cheers

Garry