My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[Midaztouch]

UFO, I agree with you 100 percent. This needs to stop here. I would say we both stated our case and it needs to be put to rest. You do have much bigger things to worry about. On another note I put my motor together and was surprised at how nicely the motor went from 3 volts to 12 with the coils in series. There was not that much change in current draw as I went up in voltage. while I was trying to final adjust I started drawing more current and knew the gaps between the commutator pieces were slightly filling with carbon. I think I have to make another motor. This one has run it's pace I think. I have Goldmine motors and might get to them later but I'm not sure it's worth it with you and your builders being so far ahead with the larger motors and more serious concepts.
Good luck everyone.
John

John don't stop. You need to catchup! We went over this stuff months ago. You came on your own to comment on a small segment but I like your experience. So, I asked you to stay here. Thank you sir!.. I don't have as much experience as you but I've been following this very closely for the last few months. Now you are starting to see thing that I've seen and they leave you with thoughts/questions like...

On another note I put my motor together and was surprised at how nicely the motor went from 3 volts to 12 with the coils in series. There was not that much change in current draw as I went up in voltage.

There is a lot more going on with the A1 Mo-Gens! Build that 5pole Goldmine Motor with a thicker gauge and N52 magnets! That motor will be very high torque and crazy RPMs for your RC! A1 Mo-Gens love high voltage!!

Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz

Ohhh! I've been here for 2yrs! I'm tired of clowns taking cheap shots. That dude was rude and he need to get stomped with steel toe boots. Good job UFO!

[wantomake]

5 pole

Hello Finn,

I saw this Motor below on the site above...

MFA General Purpose Motor 19000rpm | Maplin


They have several with same picture, different prices, different top speeds...

Just get the cheapest ones for your tests and learning...since you will need Two of them.

I believe they are Five(5) Poles, and I see easy tabs bent to take apart brush caps...so making an All North Five Winding, would be A good experience and easy to build, in order to compare even with the more expensive and fastest ones on that site...

The hardest part on this build...is to cut the end ring of one and add it/solder it/glue it to the other cut one...since this operation must come out perfectly straight so no magnet binding with rotor...once you assemble the whole thing.

So, main part here is to FIRST DO all the mechanical assembly...test that is spinning free, not rubbing...with magnets on, it would have normal drag...then do the winding.

Use 26 awg (look for mm equivalent) from 8 to 12 turns per coil , the more the better...(2 Coils in the Pair...)

This Video will show you basically the winding shape in 3D of One (1) Pair composed of Two (2) Coils...The whole motor have Five Pairs...and disregard the spec's of 30 awg.

The Plan View for ALL N is below:

[IMG][/IMG]

This video has the right spec's in the beginning (8TX2 @ Pair & awg=26)...However, in latest videos I did it with (12TX2 : 26 awg)

It is better to start playing with small toys like this, before going into Imperial...


Regards


Ufopolitics

Ufopolitics,
I finished the RS 5 pole Sunday and did exactly as you said to build it. But couldn't get it to run. It turned out really nice for my rough building skills.
The ohms is .05 per coil , 12 turns x2.

I used wire that was .40 mm(26 awg) but from an old transformer. Does it make a difference not being magnetic wire from RS?

It would make transformer buzzing noise as connected to battery. Maybe will rewind with RS wire as you stated.
What am I missing?

Winding, testing, learning, having fun.
wantomake

[prochiro]

wantomake

If it is buzzing it sounds as if you have a mechanical bind. Does the shaft turn freely ?
If that shaft is free then there is an error in winding. Also that Ohm reading is not going to work. Transformer wire is same as motor wire. Your Ohms should be much higher. You have no coil resistance and thus no working coil. Go back to RS rebuild data and see what range of Ohms was recommended.

Dana

[wantomake]

makes sense

Thanks Dana,
That makes sense. Ok. I just returned from RS and purchased last of magnetic wire. Will rewind and try again. Did learn the new rewind method from this. And not to reuse old wire.

Back to the shop,
wantomake

[Ufopolitics]

Thanks Dana,
That makes sense. Ok. I just returned from RS and purchased last of magnetic wire. Will rewind and try again. Did learn the new rewind method from this. And not to reuse old wire.

Back to the shop,
wantomake

Hello Wantomake,

Like Dana said, it could be mechanical binding ...OR...Electromagnetic Binding, caused by not positioning right your brushes, and firing coils at a point they tend stick to stators..

Must realize that this kind of winding, specifically in the RS Motor, uses the Brush position the SAME WAY as it comes from factory...NOT like the N-S Pairs we did before we had to modify...so make sure to check on that.

Regards


Ufopolitics

[DadHav]

John don't stop. You need to catchup! We went over this stuff months ago. You came on your own to comment on a small segment but I like your experience. So, I asked you to stay here. Thank you sir!.. I don't have as much experience as you but I've been following this very closely for the last few months. Now you are starting to see thing that I've seen and they leave you with thoughts/questions like...



There is a lot more going on with the A1 Mo-Gens! Build that 5pole Goldmine Motor with a thicker gauge and N52 magnets! That motor will be very high torque and crazy RPMs for your RC! A1 Mo-Gens love high voltage!!

Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz

Ohhh! I've been here for 2yrs! I'm tired of clowns taking cheap shots. That dude was rude and he need to get stomped with steel toe boots. Good job UFO!

Hello Richie. I have some Goldmine motors and liked the looks of a new one that looks like it has bearings and a large shaft, but after finishing the RS motor and doing some testing, I don't think I want to work on another motor for a while. I was able to duplicate UFO's tests in the videos pretty closely but as you know I always have completely different interpretations of what's going on and I'm not willing to spend pages arguing with anyone over a five dollar motor and this concept anymore. I'll just tag along for a while and see how things go. By the way Richie you mentioned a hybrid Goldmine motor with NN and Neo, has anyone ever done this or is it something that you think would be a good venture?
J

[wantomake]

success

Thanks Ufopolitics and Dana,
Did all as you guys said and it did start up on its own. Even turned with .8 volts on a AA battery.

Have been reading and studying older post and videos to get familiar with the test you have been trying. Hope this doesn't slow the progress of this thread. I know I can't contribute anything new, but will help if I can.

Great to watch history be rewritten.
wantomake

[Midaztouch]

Hello Richie. I have some Goldmine motors and liked the looks of a new one that looks like it has bearings and a large shaft,

From what I've read and heard from some replicators in the past, those are some really good motors for the price!

but after finishing the RS motor and doing some testing, I don't think I want to work on another motor for a while. I was able to duplicate UFO's tests in the videos pretty closely but as you know I always have completely different interpretations of what's going on and I'm not willing to spend pages arguing with anyone over a five dollar motor and this concept anymore. I'll just tag along for a while and see how things go.

You two, always bump heads! I got it & get it!.... UFO knows how to build these awesome machines but your the only one who has the proper test equipment and does the testing PROPERLY! I understand the A1 MoGen but I don't understand proper testing procedures. I've tried to research it but it's too spread out..... Plus I'm not buying the test equipment! I'm saving my pennies for the N.E.M.A. A1 MoGen

Your here, almost 4 months late, but I'm glad you finally showed up! Be cool!

By the way Richie you mentioned a hybrid Goldmine motor with NN and Neo, has anyone ever done this or is it something that you think would be a good venture?
J

Hell yeah!!! It will kick some serious *ss! The A1 MoGen likes voltage AND the amp draw will stay minimal! JUST ADD MORE VOLTAGE FOR MORE POWER & SPEED!

John, no one has done it and I would really like to see you make the Neo 52 Goldmine! After that, you are free to go or stay without any "CHEERLEADING" from me

Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz

[Zardox]

The last video

I just caught your last video UFO that says it was loaded 11 hours ago. Well it works for me!
I could really give a damn what the neysayers have to say. I am moving forward. I am sure that the imperial will be twice as impressive.
Good on ya.

[wantomake]

Heat build-up

Good morning to All,
The RS 5 pole is a great learning and to experience. I set the magnet alignment to the factory setting as advised. But the motor heated up to 96° and the batteries up to 100! I know this is due to quick amp drainage. Trying different magnet alignment should slow the heat build-up, correct?? No I didn't use amp setting on meter to see amp draw. But will today.

I rewound armature with 8 turns and 26 awg RS wire. No bindings inside the motor, it turns freely. Using two double A new batteries. Also rewired battery holders with copper plate ends and thicker awg wire.

Any advice sure would help,
wantomake

[Ufopolitics]

Hello Wantomake

Good morning to All,
The RS 5 pole is a great learning and to experience. I set the magnet alignment to the factory setting as advised. But the motor heated up to 96° and the batteries up to 100! I know this is due to quick amp drainage. Trying different magnet alignment should slow the heat build-up, correct?? No I didn't use amp setting on meter to see amp draw. But will today.

I rewound armature with 8 turns and 26 awg RS wire. No bindings inside the motor, it turns freely. Using two double A new batteries. Also rewired battery holders with copper plate ends and thicker awg wire.

Any advice sure would help,
wantomake

Hello Wantomake,


Try to align magnets or brushes (RS Motor has pretty good alignment movement on brushes, After You cut with a blade the plastic sticking out notches on the Brush Caps)...Magnets are harder to align, unless you are using two clips/springs spreaders.

The Alignment you are gonna make is setting further away the North Magnet from the first coil being fired bisector(center), this way Motor will work Higher Percentage on Attract Mode, rather than Repulse.

If You could, please try with 12 Turns per coil, instead of eight(8).

We all know that resistance (R) is directly related to Amperage (I)...and Relation between both parameters is "Inversely Proportional", meaning, the more resistance, the Less Amp draw....as the Less Resistance the more Amps drawn.

This Machines do NOT brake, nor alter, any of this Laws as Ohm or Kirchhoff's...

On my first video where I compare N-S Pairs Versus All North, I used same exact spec's on both motors, and it was 30 awg, and 25 Turns per Coil, meaning, 50 per Pair, that rendered 1.3 Ohms at Pair ...(go to minute 1:43 on video link above, where is written)...so according to this winding look at amp draw...then compare with the All North.

We will have to play with this values according to our applications, till we find the perfect gauge-turns ratio...realizing that heavier gauge and smaller turns will deliver higher torque and faster speeds...but also higher amp draw.

I will be uploading soon your 1950 Delco Dynamo 14 poles Drawing...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[laserjo]

hi all just watched your video ufo great now i know how to wind
this new machine the problem is all my old motors i wound are 16 pole
and as yet i have not seen a diagram for one .not sure how many groups
etc can any one help thanks

[prochiro]

laserjo
If you are speaking of a four stator motor I believe that as the 20 pole diagram shows 5 pole coils, the 16 pole should be 4 poles per winding as 16 is divisible by 4. I would initially plan that number but wait to confirm by UFO which should be coming along shortly.

Dana

[Ufopolitics]

Wantomake 14 Poles...

Hello Wantomake,


Ok, here is the Winding Diagram, procedure, on the 14 Poles 4 Stator 1950 Delco Dynamo, beauty you are building:

[IMG][/IMG]

First, the way this winding spreads around rotor is:

Each Coil in Group will wrap around Three (3) Poles, and Three (3) Coils forms a Group.

Like in all this type of winding, the proper way to time Machine, is to display Two Coil being fired simultaneously, to compare Bisectors of both Groups.

1-Group "entering" in contact according to Rotation (R), we will align its First Coil (1) Bisector as close as possible to North Stator Bisector (center)
In this case, G1 and G8 would be the Groups entering in contact with Motor Brush.

2- Then We Must check on "Leaving" Groups end Coils (in your design, #3), making sure they are NOT Aligning its Bisectors with the South Bisectors.
This leaving Groups on this design are G2 and G9.

3- You must wind this as I explain on video, doing G1-G2 then G8-G9 and so on, in order to balance copper weight as also to have equal magnetic fields-coils sizes, on both 180º apart firing coils.

So You will complete one Full side when you reach and complete G7...and the final winding would be G14.
I marked both of this final starting slots for both ending Groups at each side, G7 & G14 in green.

Any questions, let me know.


Thanks and Regards


Ufopolitics

[wantomake]

son of a biscuit eater!!

Hello Wantomake,


Try to align magnets or brushes (RS Motor has pretty good alignment movement on brushes, After You cut with a blade the plastic sticking out notches on the Brush Caps)...Magnets are harder to align, unless you are using two clips/springs spreaders.

The Alignment you are gonna make is setting further away the North Magnet from the first coil being fired bisector(center), this way Motor will work Higher Percentage on Attract Mode, rather than Repulse.

If You could, please try with 12 Turns per coil, instead of eight(8).

We all know that resistance (R) is directly related to Amperage (I)...and Relation between both parameters is "Inversely Proportional", meaning, the more resistance, the Less Amp draw....as the Less Resistance the more Amps drawn.

This Machines do NOT brake, nor alter, any of this Laws as Ohm or Kirchhoff's...

On my first video where I compare N-S Pairs Versus All North, I used same exact spec's on both motors, and it was 30 awg, and 25 Turns per Coil, meaning, 50 per Pair, that rendered 1.3 Ohms at Pair ...(go to minute 1:43 on video link above, where is written)...so according to this winding look at amp draw...then compare with the All North.

We will have to play with this values according to our applications, till we find the perfect gauge-turns ratio...realizing that heavier gauge and smaller turns will deliver higher torque and faster speeds...but also higher amp draw.

I will be uploading soon your 1950 Delco Dynamo 14 poles Drawing...


Regards


Ufopolitics

Thanks,
And, son of a biscuit eater, (shouting at myself) as we say here in S.Carolina. My second winding was 12 turns. I rewound it last night with 8 turns to test for the heating problem. But I'll rewind back to the 12 turns. Sorry to question you but is the 12 turn more efficient than the 8 turn?

With all of the realignment and setup of coils, brushes, etc on the delco generators that I would have noticed that. Oh thanks for the cad for the old generator. I ordered a new set of coils(4) for it.

Will need to order a few supercaps for the testing. I have two 80wv 1800 uf and one will charge up (3.5 vdc)to twice that of the (1.8vdc)input. The other connected to opposite end only charges to (0.5vdc) don't know why but it's very exciting to see that!!

Thanks again,
wantomake