My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[sampojo]

Take 2 on designing in the motor rotation

Glen, sweet looking rotors!

Redid my diagram as best I could, and this is how things came out. So I think to get a motor to rotate CW with this magnet arrangement, I need the + terminal at the rear and the windings to be mechanically wrapped CW, starting from the front comm element. Outer commutator ring would be the front of the motor.





I think I would prefer to have the front of the motor defined as the positive connection however. In that case the winding would start at bullet 1 and be CCW, and the geometry of starting the winding where the dark blue wire originates from the black dot on the outer comm changes, going to the other side of the line representing that specific sub-coil. In winding, I believe I must end up on the lightest blue single coil on top as the last coil wound. OK clear for me now I think...

[sampojo]

Winding my Baldor

5 coils completed (25%), get only 2 per day max so far. Looking OK so far regards to enough room, but should definitely fill up the rotor with copper. Using 5-filar wire, strands 30ga, 52.5', something greater than 1 ohm per coil, at 9.6'/ohm-strand. At seven subcoils per coil, I mark out each subcoil at 90" with a piece of tape and roll into the next subcoil when I hit the tape. In this picture, you can see how much wire is building up between the commutator and the rotor, which you can use to estimate if you are going to be able to complete the wind.



In this photo, you can see the 5-filar wire on the side. I guess I need to do a volume estimate of wire per rotor pole gap, as Prochiro has always recommended... Showing 1.1 ohm per coil on the meter.

[Ufopolitics]

5 coils completed (25%), get only 2 per day max so far. Looking OK so far regards to enough room, but should definitely fill up the rotor with copper. Using 5-filar wire, strands 30ga, 52.5', something greater than 1 ohm per coil, at 9.6'/ohm-strand. At seven subcoils per coil, I mark out each subcoil at 90" with a piece of tape and roll into the next subcoil when I hit the tape. In this picture, you can see how much wire is building up between the commutator and the rotor, which you can use to estimate if you are going to be able to complete the wind.



In this photo, you can see the 5-filar wire on the side. I guess I need to do a volume estimate of wire per rotor pole gap, as Prochiro has always recommended... Showing 1.1 ohm per coil on the meter.

Excellent work Sam!!

Hoping to see it running soon!


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Just a Reminder of an old Video...

Hello Guys...I am still around...

Just a reminder of what an Imperial P56 N-S Pair Wind Coils could do at 12Volts, small battery...(WERKER WKDC1233 [12V/33Ah])...

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWUsugkE0sk[/VIDEO]

IMPERIAL_RPMS_TEST_12V

And some clarification about "Coils"...in general, but basically applied to Asymm Motors performance.

A Single Coil projects a Magnetic Field at a specific Space/Time for its On period

A Pair of Coils in series is nothing more than a Single Coil's Magnetic Field spread-elongated over Space/Time which depends on the Circumference Area of core (# of elements involved) generating a wider Angle of Interaction than a Single Coil, unless that Single Coil is wrapped on the same # of elements as the Pair is...

A Group of Coils in series is also a Single Coil's Field spread-elongated over Space/Time... except, more compacted and longer area-angle could be achieved...therefore, higher RPM's...speed.

I really do not have the time to Graph this out in a simple "Linear" CAD over Time...but you guys could do it yourself as an exercise...

Regards to All.


Ufopolitics

[ron48]

Been waiting years still hoping you will show your latest and greatest creation all my best wishes ufo ron. Hopefully you will blow my socks of lol

[sampojo]

Baldor redesign contemplated

I have ground to a halt on the motor as I am rebuilding and souping up my computer and backup systems. Just killed a motherboard bios so time is a factor. Meanwhile the tankless water heater needs refurbed and cleaned, new plumbing...

So on the baldor, I have run some numbers to estimate how full the rotor gaps will be with my 5-wire 30ga multi-filar. I have an idea of the actual rate of filling as I have 6 coils wound, 3ea on opposite sides. Fill-up rate looks like I will have good room, but my calculation came in less than 50% full. And this multi-filar looks like it comes in at an equivalent of only 23ga wire. Pretty light I think. The wire that came off the motor I measure at about .028" diam. or 21ga. This comes in at 78' per ohm. Looks like I should increase the number of wires to 7 or 8 or go with a heavier gauge altogether. It looks like my winding calculation is telling me I can make my wire that heavy, and each coil resulting in a big increase in length too. If you add a strand of 30ga, ends up you simply add another 10ft of coil length. So I got to rethink it, recalc it etc. to make sure. Winding of course has stopped.

Another thing is one coil subtends 12 poles and there are 7 sub-coils per coil. This leads to an unevenness in wrapping. So I think I will redesign to 10 poles per coil and 5 poles per subcoil making things nice and even for a 20 pole motor?


Ufo, would you have any concerns changing the wrapping style as such?

Regards,

Sampojo

PS: I ran the motor on the 6 coils and of course it went the opposite direction I thought it would!?!

[Ufopolitics]

Another thing is one coil subtends 12 poles and there are 7 sub-coils per coil. This leads to an unevenness in wrapping. So I think I will redesign to 10 poles per coil and 5 poles per subcoil making things nice and even for a 20 pole motor?


Ufo, would you have any concerns changing the wrapping style as such?

Regards,

Sampojo

PS: I ran the motor on the 6 coils and of course it went the opposite direction I thought it would!?!

Hey Sam,

Sorry for the time to respond, being very busy...

I particularly like the windings being as even as the # of rotor poles area/circumference versus Stator circumference relation allows, trying that they maintain a more or less equal measurements ...So, if that relation is pretty close by doing the 10-5 in your 20 poles rotor...I rather use that one.

On the resistance relation when using finer wire than OEM, remember that the higher the ohms per coil circuit, the more voltage it would be required but the lesser amperage it will draw, The start up will not be that strong as with lower resistance, and it will develop speed/torque at certain op time. So it depends on which application you will be using it for.

Hope this will help you...wanna see that Baldor running!!


Warm regards my friend!


Ufopolitics

[arch chicken]

light peace and love to all

Ufo.....
Thank you for your dedicated focused release of this tech........I am always following in back ground and am astounded by all achieved so far.....
I have been collecting and compiling all of your threads into pdf format...problem is ....there is no relaese date......Yoy keep on writing new chapters!
Keep it up!
Oh...and congrats on the way you are handling this particular thread.........how did you get erfinder to be so plassid!......
I have replicated all so far....including your timeless motor.......but I have still to do the all north poled desighn......dumbass like me needs a lever to get my head arround the wiring diagram

The imperial motor has caused me to twice land in hospital from shear exilliration.........build myself a trike from scrap bycicles and power it with said motor.......
If it wasn't for this particular thread I would have been unemployed and on streets.....what can I say but a heartfelt thank you sir!


SALUTE COMPADRE!

[Ufopolitics]

Ufo.....
Thank you for your dedicated focused release of this tech........I am always following in back ground and am astounded by all achieved so far.....
I have been collecting and compiling all of your threads into pdf format...problem is ....there is no relaese date......Yoy keep on writing new chapters!
Keep it up!
Oh...and congrats on the way you are handling this particular thread.........how did you get erfinder to be so plassid!......
I have replicated all so far....including your timeless motor.......but I have still to do the all north poled desighn......dumbass like me needs a lever to get my head arround the wiring diagram

The imperial motor has caused me to twice land in hospital from shear exilliration.........build myself a trike from scrap bycicles and power it with said motor.......
If it wasn't for this particular thread I would have been unemployed and on streets.....what can I say but a heartfelt thank you sir!


SALUTE COMPADRE!

My pleasure Arch,

Very glad you are doing fine!

When you try the All North...is gonna be even more fun...so make sure you are prepared for it...


Kind regards friend


Ufopolitics

[arch chicken]

Hello Arch, That could be pretty good news. If I understand your statement, you are manufacturing a bike to electric bike conversion and using motors based on the asymmetric designs posted on this thread? If you are doing this there would be a lot of people who would like more information about your motor conversion. If you have something that is tested and an improvement over the standard OEM it would be very kind of you to share some information.
John

Hi dadhave.....sorry for delayed answer......bit bussy these days......
Ill get som vids and fotos together showing what i do with converting bicycles into electric bicycles.....its easy though.....i use the threepoled desighn on a car radiator fan motor......realy strong torque there.....then i mount it onto a plate shaped to fit into frame of said bicycle.....this plate has two brackets fit to take two motorcycle baterys....one on each side......after that its real simple.....take front sprocket and mount it to motor......lengten the chain a bit and fit onto motor......basic motor speed controll and bobs your uncle!

Ill post some photos showing what i did as soon as i can.......

[ewizard]

Asymmetric pulse wheel-motor generator on a bicycle :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3_xvqR5QxA

[sampojo]

Going to try to get my Baldor restarted

Hey Ufo,

Kinda ground to a halt when I realized I miscalculated my multifilar gauge needs, with 6 coils wrapped. I got the motor together to do a test spin and it went the wrong direction than planned. so I pulled in your post from p265. Just looking at the North pole, it looked like you had the right hand rule wrong. If you look at my post 7952 diagram this page, you can see I reversed it. This is blowing my mind. I pulled out my physics books and studied online and my diagram still seems to agree with the texts, but my motor is still going in the wrong direction and the coils are throwing a South pole not a North pole!!! So your diagram is still king!!

Was up till 5AM recently going over a wire recalculation. Looking at a bifilar 24ga wire now. I think it gets me to 21 ga by wire cross-sectional area, but equals the original 19 ga in conductor surface area. My calculations are showing this rotor can't hold enough wire to get to one ohm per coil using a wire that approximates the 19 ga in cross-section area. And I want to get over an ohm, about 1.1 or 1.2. Going to do a test wind on one rotor void area. A fully filled rotor void I have figured will take 270 to 320 strands of 24ga. Also going with a coil that subtends only 10 poles, not 12, with only 6 subcoils each subtending only 5 poles not 6.

Hello Sam, great to see you as to know you also have some time now!

That would be an interesting motor when finished, am sure off.

Now remember that the terms CW or CCW are completely relative and dependent from the reference point you are setting your watch/clock...

For example take a look at this old diagram when we were winding N-S Pairs, but just focus on the North/Blue side:

[IMG][/IMG]

Normally our reference point has always been the side of shaft where we are connecting to take power off, remember?

[IMG][/IMG]

Above same image without the hand reference method.

So let's say you will start from the positive(+)commutator, which, at the same token is where power take off Shaft is, meaning on graphic, the top starting point (1). So the North Pole would be aiming towards screen, and if you set your watch with the clock needles shaft also pointing towards screen, then it would be a CW winding. However, if you set the watch shaft aiming away from screen...then that same winding direc tion would be CCW...see why it is all relative?

To play safe just do one set of windings first hooked to both comm elements...then power up coils with a small battery source and read outward magnetic orientation on both cores...

Hope all this free time will allow you to complete the whole thing...it seems you have all the mechanical structure already finished...so it is just winding and connections to commutators, then fire it up...


Kind regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Hey Ufo,

Kinda ground to a halt when I realized I miscalculated my multifilar gauge needs, with 6 coils wrapped. I got the motor together to do a test spin and it went the wrong direction than planned. so I pulled in your post from p265. Just looking at the North pole, it looked like you had the right hand rule wrong. If you look at my post 7952 diagram this page, you can see I reversed it. This is blowing my mind. I pulled out my physics books and studied online and my diagram still seems to agree with the texts, but my motor is still going in the wrong direction and the coils are throwing a South pole not a North pole!!! So your diagram is still king!!

Hey Sam!

I am glad you have realized the proper way to obtain the right magnetic polarities.

Sometimes, -if the structure of motor allows you to- by making either a Full 180º reversal of Stator's Housing, leaving brushes in the same place, this will reverse your rotation. Or the same reversal of rotation could be achieved by just rotating 180º the brushes caps, leaving stators in the same position...just two simple ways to reverse rotation by changing either the static plane or the brush plane.

Was up till 5AM recently going over a wire recalculation. Looking at a bifilar 24ga wire now. I think it gets me to 21 ga by wire cross-sectional area, but equals the original 19 ga in conductor surface area. My calculations are showing this rotor can't hold enough wire to get to one ohm per coil using a wire that approximates the 19 ga in cross-section area. And I want to get over an ohm, about 1.1 or 1.2. Going to do a test wind on one rotor void area. A fully filled rotor void I have figured will take 270 to 320 strands of 24ga. Also going with a coil that subtends only 10 poles, not 12, with only 6 subcoils each subtending only 5 poles not 6.

Sorry about that!...now before you keep going, measure your brushes resistance per each vertical -in line- connection, remember brushes are in series related to each coil being energized, so they will add up, and sometimes they will get you over the 1 ohm resistance per interaction, if there is not much difference.


Kind Regards


Ufopolitics

[bistander]

Rotation

Hi sam,

Your diagram of the right hand rule is correct as shown above. However the diagram on the right showing rotation is backwards. With the armature North pointed downward in the stator field pointed to the left*, rotation is CW.**

bi

After 2 edits. It must be that the armature North actually points upwards causing the actual rotation to be CCW.

[Ufopolitics]

Hi sam,

Your diagram of the right hand rule is correct as shown above.However the diagram on the right showing rotation is backwards. With the armature North pointed downward in the stator field pointed to the right, rotation is CCW.

bi

Hello Bistander,

I believe you are not interpreting the right diagram correctly...

The two Stator Polarizations (Red=South, Blue=North) are meaning to be pointing Inwards, towards rotor, (we are not reflecting the outwards pointing polarizations, since they do not take any direct role in the motor action) and not like you are understanding "stator field pointing to the right".

As the image that Sampojo modified from mine on left is NOT correct, related to the flow of currents (from positive to negative) it will generate a South Field that way, pointing out of screen...and not a North (he reversed the voltage polarities) so, on his motor drawing on right was going opposite than he planned because he wound a South instead of a North at rotor. (read his previous post again)

Regards


Ufopolitics