My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[DadHav]

Brushless

Hello Dad Hav,

Yes Dad Hav, I have worked in a Brush Less version Asymmetrical System, actually at that time, I did not know anything about the Asymmetry or the Symmetry...it was that Motor that lead me into this work...But it is a Kind of Motor completely different in structure to any you guys have seen so far...structure wise...it does not have a Real, but a "Virtual Shaft"...And the "Power Take Off" is from external cylinder-rings...

I made it with Infra Red transmitters-receivers, and the whole frame is made of Carbon Fiber, except its Stators-Armature and special type of axial bearings.

Now, converting an "existing" Brush-Less Motor into this Set-Up, is a complete "Mission"...since the Bell Housing where magnets are mounted is based on small magnets arranged in a NSNSNSNSNS, and in order to make my design, we will have to remove them all, and set them in blocks of NNNN-SSSSS-NNNN, and the "luck" to get them out without cracking is very low.

I have a 65 MPH Electric Bike, a 72 Volts LiPo...not a Scooter...that have that Motor type as part of the rear wheel...and I will be transforming it...but that is not gonna happen in a near future...since the whole Controlling-Speed System will also have to be modified. Motor is a 120 degrees 72V/80 Amps BLDC.

I have uploaded a Brush-Less version here before, a Three Pole, but that is just a Concept yet to be developed.


Regards


Ufopolitics

Thanks for taking the time to answer me. I'm interested in hearing more about the brushless stuff if you ever get back to it. I think what you're doing here could explain why I'm getting such efficiency from my parallel wound Brushless printer motors. You can easily do what ever you want with regard to the magnets on these. Maybe I can think out a few ways to try a few experiments with them.
Thanks
John H

[Ufopolitics]

Absolutely Agree...

Hi UfoPolitics,

It is great to watch you adapt your discovery to many different types of platforms.

Came across these videos that you might find interesting as idea generators.

It would be great to reduce your discovery down to readily available items that most anyone that was interested could find around the world. Something anyone could build to demonstrate the principle(s), allow them to participate and share with those they know. Simplify the learning curve and shorten the runway for takeoff to understanding

DC motor from gatorade bottle.
DC motor from gatorade bottle. - YouTube

Experiment: electric rotor, easy to implement.
Experiment: electric rotor, easy to implement. - YouTube

Mouse Trap Simple Electric Motor
Mouse Trap Simple Electric Motor - YouTube

Mouse Trap Walking Beam Electric Motor
Mouse Trap Walking Beam Electric Motor - YouTube

Magnet motor with coils
Magnet motor with coils - YouTube

A simple DC Motor DIY
A simple DC Motor DIY - YouTube

Homopolar Motor With Five Speed Manual Stick-Shift
Homopolar Motor With Five Speed Manual Stick-Shift - YouTube

These Hearts Are On Fire ]
These Hearts Are On Fire - YouTube

My Multi-Axis Homopolar Motor
My Multi-Axis Homopolar Motor - YouTube

Motor CC
Motor CC - YouTube

Super simple electric motor
Super simple electric motor - YouTube

A) 1910 flywheel motor works from a D cell (gone)
A) 1910 flywheel motor works from a D cell (gone) - YouTube

Thank you for your continued contributions Ufopolitics!

IndianaBoys

Hey Indiana Boys!!

Gotcha!...

I see exactly what you mean...

By the way awesome videos...Human Intelligence is incredible...when we really get it to work!


Thanks!


UFO

[Ufopolitics]

Brushless ...

Thanks for taking the time to answer me. I'm interested in hearing more about the brushless stuff if you ever get back to it. I think what you're doing here could explain why I'm getting such efficiency from my parallel wound Brushless printer motors. You can easily do what ever you want with regard to the magnets on these. Maybe I can think out a few ways to try a few experiments with them.
Thanks
John H

Hello Dad Hav,


The Draw back of Brushless when applying Asymmetry...is to keep those coils independently energized, while having a "Positioning Sensor" to trigger the right Set of Pairs at the right positioning relative to Stators (and Stators in most BLDC are typically "Rotating Stators"...Then We are bounded to use "Remote Directional Switching" electronics to do this job...either Hall Sensor Effect Transistors, reed switches, or Infra Red Emitter-Receivers... So We end up kind of complicating more the whole "Scenario Here" related to Replications...

That is the reason why I have been so far dedicated to work on Mechanical Commutation Systems...

I see the limitations as to have a Machine that will only work on Permanent Magnets concepts, as a Draw back when expanding to bigger sizes...besides strong Magnetic Friction between Steel-Magnets...

Honestly up to now...the Commutator Systems , including the Universal Motors used in most Tools, and "Heavy Duty Work" like Hydraulic Pumps, Lifting Motors, and heavy torque requirement fields ...have not being able to be replaced by the BLDC Systems...because they will never deliver the required torque as Brush-Comm does.

Could you show those "BLDC Parallel Wound Printer Motors"...in pic's or videos?, I have no idea what they look like...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[DadHav]

Hello Dad Hav,


The Draw back of Brushless when applying Asymmetry...is to keep those coils independently energized, while having a "Positioning Sensor" to trigger the right Set of Pairs at the right positioning relative to Stators (and Stators in most BLDC are typically "Rotating Stators"...Then We are bounded to use "Remote Directional Switching" electronics to do this job...either Hall Sensor Effect Transistors, reed switches, or Infra Red Emitter-Receivers... So We end up kind of complicating more the whole "Scenario Here" related to Replications...

That is the reason why I have been so far dedicated to work on Mechanical Commutation Systems...

I see the limitations as to have a Machine that will only work on Permanent Magnets concepts, as a Draw back when expanding to bigger sizes...besides strong Magnetic Friction between Steel-Magnets...

Honestly up to now...the Commutator Systems , including the Universal Motors used in most Tools, and "Heavy Duty Work" like Hydraulic Pumps, Lifting Motors, and heavy torque requirement fields ...have not being able to be replaced by the BLDC Systems...because they will never deliver the required torque as Brush-Comm does.

Could you show those "BLDC Parallel Wound Printer Motors"...in pic's or videos?, I have no idea what they look like...


Regards


Ufopolitics

Just to quickly explain, a stator that I just wound and haven't tested very far is an almost 4 inch diameter printer outrunner motor like others on my channel. I'm sure you will be familiar with what I say. These are 12 legs and I use the easy three phase wind of ABC with 8 or 16 magnets. Instead of winding a single strand I have wound tri-filer. My intent was to try something like an SSG circuit triggering each of the phases. This gives me an extra parallel coil to each phase to experiment with. Before winding the tri-filer 3 phase I wound a standard generator coil of #32 wire on the legs first. A second stator motor is on the bench which will be like a standard generator: 12 legs 12 magnets. I'm almost finished with the last few legs of windings. This one has two power coils and two trigger coils wound at 40 turns per leg. So this should run nicely from a full wave circuit and also SSG or half wave with still extra parallel windings to connect in series with a power coil. I use this connection all the time to almost double the output voltage much in what I think might be similar to the RS Modification when you make the connections for added voltage. It proves to be much more efficient than adding a separate generator coil. Similar to what is reported here the extra coil in the motor acts much better than an external coil. It definitely picks something up from the operation of the motor. I'll post a video soon if I have anything interesting come of it. I don't want to interrupt here any more.
Thanks for spending the time. I understand what you explained about the brushless scenario. In case anyone hasn't seen what one of these motors looks like you can see one here. Just jumpt to 19 minutes in and you will see all the additional coil connections showing. Further up at around 25 minutes there is a drawing of the stock winding and a few more views of the stator. Somehere in there you can see what the motor and circuit board look like as you would buy it from E-Bay or somewhere. I also run the motor there without any modiification.
Simple 3 Phase Motor Control - YouTube
So many things to learn about and just not enough time in the day.
John H.

[Bob Smith]

Stay Safe

Just a note --
It goes without saying that everyone attempts these motors at their own risk, as with every other project on this site.

I finished a second 3-pole motor and a 5 pole motor today. Great effects on SLA batteries - can't remember having this much fun with this kind of stuff!

Using a dremel cutting disk to slice apart motors (safety glasses a MUST). My disk shattered at one point and flew into my hand at 5000 RPM. I couldn't believe it didn't slice my knuckle open. Decided to use gloves from now on, in addition to the glasses. FYI...

Will post pics later.
Bob

[pmazz850]

My 12 pole blower motor

Here are some pics of my 12 pole i finished today. It has an aluminum housing due to cheap crimped housing being damaged. Brushes are sparking and seems to pull some amps. Still have to tune it in. After i got it together it wouldn't turn. Took it apart and found i wound one of the coils the wrong way. I'll play around with it some more tomorrow. Enjoy!

[mklimesh]

12p

UFO,
Have 2 of the Torqmaster 180's on their way so I can wind along with you (+_+)

Collected 3 subie windshield wiper motors which are 12p _ 2s, rotor is aprox 2" diameter x 1" long and they have 3 brushes. Will wind it while I'm
wating for the 180's.

Mike Klimesh

[Ufopolitics]

That's awesome!!

UFO,
Have 2 of the Torqmaster 180's on their way so I can wind along with you (+_+)

Collected 3 subie windshield wiper motors which are 12p _ 2s, rotor is aprox 2" diameter x 1" long and they have 3 brushes. Will wind it while I'm
wating for the 180's.

Mike Klimesh

Hey Mike,

That is great!...Hey so you are gonna wind two of the 180's?...wow...great, I see that in the pic's they have a third brush at around 30 degrees...that is great to test output through there also!!!

So, before you start the wind, make sure to decide a rotation sense that will allow to use that one at the highest collection angle....even though by just inverting the Input will reverse rotation...but use the closest one to the 30 Angled , as your Input.


Great


Regards


UFO

[mklimesh]

Razor scooter motors 'MY1016'

I pulled apart 3 of the MY1016 scooter motors. They all use the same commutator.
The smallest one rated at 250 watt 14a 2500rpm the shaft is the same size on both sides.
The 300 watt 16.4a 2750rpm rated one and the largest one have a larger shaft on the drive side.
The brush width on the smaller one is the same size as the commutator segments, on the larger 2 the brush width covers almost 1.5 commutator segments.
6 scooters in my junk pile and no matching motors.
The smaller one looks to be the easyist to convert so I will hunt for a match to it.

Mike Klimesh

[Turion]

mklimesh,
I may be wrong, but because those motors have two sets of two brushes already, I think UFO posted a wiring configuration where you only need ONE commutator.

Dave

[IndianaBoys]

Ufopolitics,

I have 2 Torque Master 180's on order as well.

In the mean time, been wrapping the RS5PM (Radio Shack 5 Pole Motor).

Using Radio Shack red wire 25 turns I get .9 ohms.

Which is best 25 turns or shooting for the 1.2 to 1.4 ohms?

Thanks,

IndianaBoys

[crash&burn]

I believe coil must be at least 1 ohm or risk blowing fets.

CB

[mariuscivic]

Hello everyone!

Thank you UFO for such great results with your asymmetric rotor.
I'm trying to kill the ''witch'' here in east europe but is a bit harder ( maybe dracula is involved too ) .

Made a small vid; this is the thrid rotor that i made with the same result: is spining but not recharging the battery like other replicators observed.
I'm going to make a 5 pole rotor soon; mean while please watch this:

UFO's asymmetric 3 pole rotor - YouTube

Tryed 0.3 mm wire with 25 turns but in 10 seconds the coils were very hot. In the end the 0.3 mm wire just broked and now the coils have 0.2mm wire with 100 turns each coil.

[Ufopolitics]

Asymmetrical Fiberglass Stator Cad Plus Winding Mode

Hello My Dear Friends!!

Well, like I promised here is the Fiberglass Asymmetrical Stator CAD...


[IMG][/IMG]

Now for sake of simplicity I just rendered One Single Layer of wire, but I used Two Layers(2) total in Real Model, it should read @1.0 Ohms
It was made of Bifilar 18 awg wire (Two Strands in Parallel)

The way to wind it is just like making a straight Cylindrical Coil...therefore returning at end going Layer 2/ Level 6 /15 Turns, then Level 5 /15 T, Level4/15 T...so on, till ending right at starting Terminal.

The length of Fins (Holding Horizontal Winds) to be as close as possible to Machine Armature Body length. I also rendered the Machine Armature to make sure to wire ALL Pairs of Coils in exactly same direction as Stator has been wound!!

In Upper View I am showing the "underneath" wires in a Khaki Color, different as the seen Brown color . I did it , in order to show you must keep levels within same corresponding fins...

I will be releasing an Animated 3D CAD Video where a little Purple Light (just like Radiant Plasma) will show you the wire path...
So SHE will show you the way...


Regards Cheers


Ufopolitics

[prochiro]

mariuscivic

Hi mariuscivic
Looks like you have been working hard. With these small motors, the ability to produce extra voltage stems from motor efficiency in all areas. With your video angle not at exact point to see brush contact of both at one time, I think I saw that the brush on the right is a little differant than the left, lower on the video. The magnets on the RS are ceramic and rounded. I have made many motors and with many of them, Neo magnets are just too strong and produce too much drag on the rotor. The shape also makes a differance. I see that you have a large space between the magnets and the windings and as I think those are neo mags, that will offset some drag but who knows how much and is it enough. The motor tube you showed seemed uncut, so did you do the first tests with UFO tech. or with your design. If you have not used UFO tech, you are not doing apples to apples. Good work so far and your video shows that you understand motor basics. The trick is keeping at it to learn more and doing apples to apples. Good Luck and happy motoring.
Dana