My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[Ufopolitics]

Ac Induction Motor To Generator...

Ufo, Some questions on this.



In pic 2, notice my 1-5/8 long rotor block. I could only find arc magnets of neodymium at 1" long. And they lied said they were 1/4" thick, they werent, so my gap between my rotor block and the coils is at about 1/16", a little larger than before. Also the steel frame of the coils is exactly the same size as the old rotor block. I don't feel like even trying to cut the neo's down to size and just want to make a new rotor block 2" long, extending beyond the coils steel frame about 1/4" each side. Overall the coils are 2.5" long.

Are any of these mismatches showstoppers?

Notice the starting mechanism on the end of the rotor. When it reaches a certain rpm it trips into the normal run range by hitting a switch inside the motor. you can see the switch in picture 3

Is this needed for the generator option?

I don't suppose but then I should set the switch to the normal run mode, otherwise it will be stuck in a low voltage mode of operation perhaps?

TIA

Sam,

I have been trying to tell you friend...this kind of 'conversion' will never work as well as a real AC Generator, unless you change the whole thing, meaning, mainly the stator windings...I don't know if going through all this trouble will be worth it, just because you won't get out what you may be expecting.

Say you find the right magnets, or cut them to size, use more down vertically and add them stacked to reach the 2.5 inches...say you finish your rotor...You will STILL, NOT get out the same way as you will obtain of a real AC Winding Generator...they ARE NOT THE SAME, and I have made (specially for you) the Diagram below, trying for you to see what I mean:

[IMG][/IMG]

Take a look again at your windings at stator...they should look like in FIG 1...meaning they are piled together comprehending "X" number of poles...then they jump to another 'Layer' to wind same thing.

The way a dedicated winding for an AC Generator for the Induced Coils works...is like shown on FIG 2...Notice they have each coil winding jump every SINGLE POLE...and I only drew a single line...but they are several strands of wire on each slot...now this guarantees that EVERY SINGLE SLOT is gonna have several VERTICAL WIRES that would be inducing currents at every single degree of rotor movement...so you get a ROBUST AC OUTPUT.

Understand now my friend?

I mean, I do not want to disappoint you about your project...but at the same token, I feel it would be worst that after all that trouble...you do NOT have out whatever Energy Rate you were expecting.

Even if you take apart that winding...and try to rewind it according to FIG 2...still, all the resistance, number of turns, wire gauge and area of 'induction' (number of poles) MUST BE CALCULATED accordingly, in order to output the required AC 120 V and say 15 Amps at a specific speed (RPM's), say 'conventional' 3600.

That switch, like you said...is not needed for AC Generator, HOWEVER, that switch turns on and off the Two Speeds of Two Different Windings-Layers on Stator...so make sure you choose the lowest resistance one, in order to get a more robust AC (Amps wise)...

The Guy on video you linked previously shows an output of like 50 Volts, after all that trouble...but HOW MANY AMPS?...I did not see he measured that parameter.

Final point am trying to get at...is that I do not want you to expect to make that small motor output like even the same size dedicated AC Generator. And am not saying you will not get anything at all...you will, and to 'prove a point' is fine...but for real applications it won't work.


Regards my Friend!


Ufopolitics

[sampojo]

Making a Small AC generator

Ufo, Some questions on this.



In pic 2, notice my 1-5/8 long rotor block. I could only find arc magnets of neodymium at 1" long. And they lied said they were 1/4" thick, they werent, so my gap between my rotor block and the coils is at about 1/16", a little larger than before. Also the steel frame of the coils is exactly the same size as the old rotor block. I don't feel like even trying to cut the neo's down to size and just want to make a new rotor block 2" long, extending beyond the coils steel frame about 1/4" each side. Overall the coils are 2.5" long.

Are any of these mismatches showstoppers?

Notice the starting mechanism on the end of the rotor. When it reaches a certain rpm it trips into the normal run range by hitting a switch inside the motor. you can see the switch in picture 3

Is this needed for the generator option?

I don't suppose but then I should set the switch to the normal run mode, otherwise it will be stuck in a low voltage mode of operation perhaps?

TIA

[Ufopolitics]

Wrong interpretation Hanon...

Hi,

Sorry Ufo for bringing to your thread this off-topic post, but I know that into this thread has sometimes appeared the patent 3,913,004 by Robert Alexander about his motor - generator. Also I know that in this thread there is very knownledgeable people and ,maybe, someone could be interested in the detail I will show next.

After watching carefully Robert Alexander US patent 3,913,004 drawing I have discovered that the correct polarity in the Alexander device is with like poles facing each other ( N-N !!!) Alexander drew it so that everyone would think that was N-S, but if you interpret correctly his drawing you will note the correct polarity of the magnets. Maybe Alexander was trying to hide this feature.

I attach a corrected sketch below.

Hanon,

It is ok to post here, however, look again at original Patent drawing...if you notice about TWO details.

1- First, note his Generator winding, which is done in a "Series Continuous Turns".
2-Also note the Generator Output is clearly shown as an AC Sine wave.

Now, if He would have same polarity in Stators, as you are referring to in the colored poles second diagram you did...whether N-N or S-S facing rotor windings...first than all, according to way of winding plus same polarity at stators...it would output an always positive sine wave friend....I believe you know that right?...since we discuss it before in your threads, and I recall you posting about this...

On the Motor end...it does not make sense either, to have same polarity Stators...I have done it with the All North ROTOR type (it could only be achieved with this type)...but does not work as well as N-S Arrangement in the Stators...which I also have posted here.

Anyways, hope you could see what I mean...

Regards


Ufopolitics

[hanon1492]

Hi,

Sorry Ufo for bringing to your thread this off-topic post, but I know that into this thread has sometimes appeared the patent 3,913,004 by Robert Alexander about his motor - generator. Also I know that in this thread there is very knownledgeable people and ,maybe, someone could be interested in the detail I will show next.

After watching carefully Robert Alexander US patent 3,913,004 drawing I have discovered that the correct polarity in the Alexander device is with like poles facing each other ( N-N !!!) Alexander drew it so that everyone would think that was N-S, but if you interpret correctly his drawing you will note the correct polarity of the magnets. Maybe Alexander was trying to hide this feature.

I attach a corrected sketch below.

[DadHav]

John

I have not used past seven wires but have torn down a Delco Rotory Transformer that had such fine wire that I could not even measure it. It looked like many small hairs but upon rubbing the ends, that was even smaller wires in that.
Dana

Dana, I have a few of those transformers covered with spider webs somewhere, maybe I'll have a look. I've had trouble breaking wires while winding with anything #30 or smaller. Somehow home litzing might get some wires shorter than others or something. Good luck with your Goldmine motors. Has anyone used this particular one, or know anything about it like how many poles? It also looks like it might have real bearings in it.
Electronic Goldmine - Massive 12VDC Motor
John

[prochiro]

John

I have not used past seven wires but have torn down a Delco Rotory Transformer that had such fine wire that I could not even measure it. It looked like many small hairs but upon rubbing the ends, that was even smaller wires in that.
Dana

[DadHav]

Sampojo

Going back to fifty to seventy pages ago I saw that UFO asked you to try a Litz wire version. I see where you asked a lot of questions and mentioned the multiple wire at several other points. What I do not see is any reference to a finished motor using litz wire or data about it. For others who are interested, I am showing my data about litz equivalent AWG.

Equivalent ___Number ____AWG of wire____LBS. per ______Resistance____
AWG________of wires___________________1000ft._______OHM/1000ft.__

26__________ 3 _________30 ___________.95 ___________35.98
24__________ 5__________30__________1.58____________21.59
22__________ 7__________30__________2.21____________15.42
20__________ 11_________30__________3.47____________9.81
18__________ 17_________30__________5.52____________6.35
16__________ 26_________30__________8.38____________4.15


I have many more types of formulas and patterns but these are for 1Hz to 10KHz and are the best for our winding , all with Construction type 1 which is just wind them all together as one wire.

On average with say 12 volts into a coil, you can expect from 1/4 to 1/3 more of everything including BEMF.

I have ordered a spool of 30 AWG wire and will be winding a goldmine motor with all north with 3/30 litz for comparison in the near future. I will be twisting at about 6 turns per foot. If others have an extra RS motor and some 30 AWG, you are invited to do the same, but remember to compare to another all north motor of same size.
Here is more data
http://litzwire.com/nepdfs/Round_Litz_Catalog.pdf

Dana

Hello Dana, Thanks for the link, it's an eye opener isn't it. If anyone here hasn't used multiple strands you might be surprised how nice it is to wind. If you look at the same gage across the charts (say #18) you can use 10 strands to 1100 depending on the size you're litzing with? Man I never thought about using such fine wire. Do you ever question whether or not you miss any ends when you solder? I use wire that has a coating that you can solder through, it sort of just melts out of the way and that helps. Using a little paste on the end to help the wire tin has worked for me also. If you miss to many strands you're resistance measurement will be off right?
Out of curiosity, has anyone here ever used litzed wire with nearly 1000 strands?
John

[Cornboy 555]

Sampojo

Going back to fifty to seventy pages ago I saw that UFO asked you to try a Litz wire version. I see where you asked a lot of questions and mentioned the multiple wire at several other points. What I do not see is any reference to a finished motor using litz wire or data about it. For others who are interested, I am showing my data about litz equivalent AWG.

Equivalent ___Number ____AWG of wire____LBS. per ______Resistance____
AWG________of wires___________________1000ft._______OHM/1000ft.__

26__________ 3 _________30 ___________.95 ___________35.98
24__________ 5__________30__________1.58____________21.59
22__________ 7__________30__________2.21____________15.42
20__________ 11_________30__________3.47____________9.81
18__________ 17_________30__________5.52____________6.35
16__________ 26_________30__________8.38____________4.15


I have many more types of formulas and patterns but these are for 1Hz to 10KHz and are the best for our winding , all with Construction type 1 which is just wind them all together as one wire.

On average with say 12 volts into a coil, you can expect from 1/4 to 1/3 more of everything including BEMF.

I have ordered a spool of 30 AWG wire and will be winding a goldmine motor with all north with 3/30 litz for comparison in the near future. I will be twisting at about 6 turns per foot. If others have an extra RS motor and some 30 AWG, you are invited to do the same, but remember to compare to another all north motor of same size.
Here is more data
http://litzwire.com/nepdfs/Round_Litz_Catalog.pdf

Dana

Thanks DANA, for your on the ball, and back on board posts, I am hobbled at the moment, in regards to doing what I love most, you all know What.

Warmest Regards Cornboy.

[prochiro]

Litz

Sampojo

Going back to fifty to seventy pages ago I saw that UFO asked you to try a Litz wire version. I see where you asked a lot of questions and mentioned the multiple wire at several other points. What I do not see is any reference to a finished motor using litz wire or data about it. For others who are interested, I am showing my data about litz equivalent AWG.

Equivalent ___Number ____AWG of wire____LBS. per ______Resistance____
AWG________of wires___________________1000ft._______OHM/1000ft.__

26__________ 3 _________30 ___________.95 ___________35.98
24__________ 5__________30__________1.58____________21.59
22__________ 7__________30__________2.21____________15.42
20__________ 11_________30__________3.47____________9.81
18__________ 17_________30__________5.52____________6.35
16__________ 26_________30__________8.38____________4.15


I have many more types of formulas and patterns but these are for 1Hz to 10KHz and are the best for our winding , all with Construction type 1 which is just wind them all together as one wire.

On average with say 12 volts into a coil, you can expect from 1/4 to 1/3 more of everything including BEMF.

I have ordered a spool of 30 AWG wire and will be winding a goldmine motor with all north with 3/30 litz for comparison in the near future. I will be twisting at about 6 turns per foot. If others have an extra RS motor and some 30 AWG, you are invited to do the same, but remember to compare to another all north motor of same size.
Here is more data
http://litzwire.com/nepdfs/Round_Litz_Catalog.pdf

Dana

[warrensk]

Just for clarity, I have built a 16 pole with the old north and south configuration and I am way more than happy with it. I will be making more all north motors soon...looking at digging deep and getting the UFO kit soon!

[kukulcangod]

Hello John,

I do not believe "the end" has always to be so "dramatic and sad"...come on!, there is light at the end of that tunnel...just follow its shine and reflections...

So what I believe in is:

"If a person tries hard enough and long enough he will have more chances, probabilities to reach success..."

Success is full of controversy, critics, failures, achievements, as "in-between" stages...then again it repeats itself...same cycle, maybe different order...different colors...till you hit it.

Although I do have to agree with you...you could die in the process...but I believe it is much better than still dying without even trying...and I am absolutely sure, if it happens to me...it would feel very sad, and full of anger and rage against myself...I don't want to go like that John...so I will always keep trying...


Cheers, we are almost there, so hang on...


Ufopolitics

Tesla said once that if Edison would've been more academic he wouldn't have to try
many times at finally getting the light bulb to work...I'm back, small motors again about to be converted at 12 turns 26 gage, I got this twins from a cheap RC truck wildfire brand rated at 9.5 volts half amp draw and about 17000 rpm...will post videos soon...I know first ones were wrong on house side and my side, got to expensive with big motors and too much fighting got me out specially dealing with life...But UFO you are behaving more like Tesla considering a scientific method , Dadhave your observations are valid and much needed ...It is hard to be critical of one self and honest specially when passionate about our inventions, etc...Keep up the good work
Kuku

[sampojo]

Re: Bodine AC induction motor conversion to AC gen

Hello Sam,

I watched the video...nice music...

I see you are copying this guys by inserting round magnets in rotor drum...

Short Cylinder magnets as exciters , smaller than the Fields Cores will NOT deliver a full power output as those SQUARE Concave Cores-Coils would require to get induced fully .

There need to be MATCHING GEOMETRIES between Exciter Fields and Induced Fields. The advantage of using Neo's is that they have a wider and stronger magnetic field than a regular ceramic magnet.

Actually this guy is exciting only like a Mid Center "Belt" off the Stator Fields area...and loosing all the rest, plus all the missing volume from a round magnet to a rectangular or square area.

You should try to get first, just a couple or four... concave magnets from old motors...I believe you should have a few left over......and match magnets arcs area to match inner stator coils convex area as well as rotor circumference...then it will tell you if you could use two or four.

When I load a post on my Faraday Thread today...you will see what I mean...



No "conversions from" in new design...it is all different, a new structure, a new concept, must be built from scratch...magnets?...yes, you could use some of your ceramic concave magnets, so start saving and collecting them...


And...it is not about... more magnets, more power, friend...it is about getting the right dimension and strength type of magnets, set at the right positioning.


Regards


Ufopolitics

I'm still brainstorming, been trying to just run an AC motor in generator mode. Looked close at the rotor, laminated steel as usual. So I could just pop it off and put a new one on it. I am thinking of using wood between 2 big right-sized steel washers, and ceramic magnets glued on top. Might be able to knock that out in a few days labor, off and on. Just short one magnet, I broke a couple when I didn't know how to get them out. Probably use epoxy to hold the rotor on if the washers don't hold. I don't see any starter caps on this motor, got me confused.

Ufo, did you see my Asym Motor Cntlr, got the diodes blinkin'

Before I do the AC gen, I think I will make a new rotor my quad stator window motor. Needs a refurb. rotor will use bifilar 32ga to coils to get a good resistance. 16' per coil of 26ga was causing overheat probs. Primary focus now is my AMC. Got some serious house maintenance since I been down to 50% on my hip replacement. About 80% back now.

FYI the Anterior hip replacement supposed to get you back faster. Instead of cutting muscle they cut you vertically and stretch you. I think there is something unsaid about it that people need to know, IT TEARS YOUR MUSCLES a little in the stretch. You can get up on your feet faster if you put heat, whirlpool on it but AFTER the first month when swelling no longer an issue IMHO.

[DadHav]

Hello John,

I do not believe "the end" has always to be so "dramatic and sad"...come on!, there is light at the end of that tunnel...just follow its shine and reflections...

So what I believe in is:

"If a person tries hard enough and long enough he will have more chances, probabilities to reach success..."

Success is full of controversy, critics, failures, achievements, as "in-between" stages...then again it repeats itself...same cycle, maybe different order...different colors...till you hit it.

Although I do have to agree with you...you could die in the process...but I believe it is much better than still dying without even trying...and I am absolutely sure, if it happens to me...it would feel very sad, and full of anger and rage against myself...I don't want to go like that John...so I will always keep trying...


Cheers, we are almost there, so hang on...


Ufopolitics

Ha, ha ha. UFO, I hope you don't take the comment as if I were directing it to you, it's an old quote that's meant to be funny. I've been around long enough to know everything you said is believed by everyone who is following the forum. For me everything is a matter of priorities. Choices of what to spend time on get more important every day. OK let's go back to a different quote then and this can be directed to you. "If you can do so much with so little for so long, you will eventually be able to do anything with almost nothing no matter how long it takes".
Good Luck
J

[Ufopolitics]

I always believed if a person tries hard enough and long enough he might eventually die trying.

John

Hello John,

I do not believe "the end" has always to be so "dramatic and sad"...come on!, there is light at the end of that tunnel...just follow its shine and reflections...

So what I believe in is:

"If a person tries hard enough and long enough he will have more chances, probabilities to reach success..."

Success is full of controversy, critics, failures, achievements, as "in-between" stages...then again it repeats itself...same cycle, maybe different order...different colors...till you hit it.

Although I do have to agree with you...you could die in the process...but I believe it is much better than still dying without even trying...and I am absolutely sure, if it happens to me...it would feel very sad, and full of anger and rage against myself...I don't want to go like that John...so I will always keep trying...


Cheers, we are almost there, so hang on...


Ufopolitics

[DadHav]

esesenergy

You know what you and several others remind me of? When a large group of people get together, all like mind, happy with life and what they are doing, someone comes in and tries to tell them how bad life and there efforts are. The fact is, that person is actually telling how he sees life and is miserable with it, not being able to find the life he wants so much. I feel sorry for you and those like you.
Actually, if you looked thru this forum, you will see that threads are started, many people making copies and then adding to the advances in that thread. Most threads live just a few months and go dead. Others plod along but where have they gotten to at this point........I do not see anyone making a house full of power starting with no energy. Even those who have been able to loop back to primary source have vary limited additional run time. Those here on UFO's threads are free to work on other threads but choose not to as we are where we see the most potential. The money we choose to spend is no different than I see spent in many other threads on machining and such.

Do not worry about us as it sounds that you already have enough problems of your own.

Prochiro

It's been a long time hasn't it? Many people including people we know and worked with have taken what might be a permanent rest from it all. I don't know Eses but maybe he's one them. No matter what, there's nothing honorable about what he said. What's really sad is how many thousands of people are tricked every day by fake videos and promotions on YouTube and other places. Not to mention how many books and videos you can buy, study and still end up with the same results as people had 40 years ago. LOL that would be me. You just can't blame the people who are trying so hard. UFO's professional way of presenting a project has kept things going for a few years now and a lot of people have had fun studying and building. That's certainly worth something. I'm not saying I'm without reservations as it pertains to some of the disclosures but time is short before some of the larger builds are finished right? Personally I don't believe I'll see a self running machine in my lifetime but I would like to see a vehicle travel further for less than a conventional EV. Much further for much less hopefully.
John
I always believed if a person tries hard enough and long enough he might eventually die trying.