My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[Ufopolitics]

Quoting Myself on Previous Post

Hello to all the ones who are replicating here...


Just for ALL of you out there, I know you are interested in building it with me here...this is what is supposed to be done...and that is why am here!!

Thanks!

Here is the 750 Watts BOSCH Motor Diagram I have run with that miniature battery for more than seven minutes in my last testing...and could not stop it...it carries me on an electric scooter with three LiPo's (36V) and hauling ...



It has 20 poles, four stators, four brushes on each upper lower ends...I wound it with 18 awg, around 20 turns per coil of two pairs...I have to make a resistance measurement and I will post it later on...On this motors is easy to do that "per Two Pairs of coils" since it has four Motor Brushes, all to do is rotate the armature...till find a good contact...they are also great to be able to diagnose that way...for open coils...

@Mathew Jones: This is it Matt, sorry I did not had the CAD at the time you posted your question, and no, it is not like the connections you have shown before...

Now, for sake of simplicity and not to fill it up with 20 Pairs of Coils...I have set it with just the Four Pairs that are interacting at the brush contacts...but the same "Laws Apply"...they are all wound in same directions...and starting all at one commutator and end at the other one...

Now, in order not to get confused with the number of poles config or else ...

Just think as a straight coil that you have separated in Two Halves right at their center, and inserted one right next to the other half, where the both sections facing outwards toward stators...were the upper-lower ends at its straight (before) shape...

It is Ok to do "Finger rolling in the air, like following the wounds while turning to next pole"...just try that no one is watching you...or is going to think you have gone mentally insane...



Regards


Ufopolitics

Ok Turion, take a look again at My Original Post here, related to the BOSCH Design...

I will post a new one more "organized, However I Bold the important issue here...about how many coils total...

Be back


Thanks...had to go back just a "few pages" to find this post...

Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

No, I am sorry...

UFO
I am having some trouble with getting my Modified Razor scooter motor to run. The attached diagram is the way I have it wired. In the scooter motor the windings go around three commutator segments instead of four, but that is not the issue.

1. The diagram seems to indicate that there are eight coils. Correct?
2. A blue coil and a red coil each have a wire connected to the same commutator segment. Correct?

That uses up four of the 16 segments on the commutator. Should four commutator sections be connected together so there are four groups of four, or should three be connected together to leave off time in between?

Dave

No Dave...hold on!!!!

1. The diagram seems to indicate that there are eight coils. Correct?

Nope!!...I am really sorry, there are a Total of Twenty Pairs, meaning Forty Coils!!

Ok, the Diagram I have presented shows ONLY four Coils for SAKE OF SIMPLICITY!!...It is a 20 Poles Armature, and Each Coil, will turn around Four(4) Poles...So a Pair will comprehend Eight Poles, so it will have a Total of Twenty (20) Pairs and Forty (40) Coils!
Meaning Twenty Norths and Twenty South Coils.

Each Pair will have Two terminals, positive and Negative...right?
and you have 20 elements at upper Comm, and 20 at lower comm...so you will need Forty Coils to fill in ALL EACH Commutator Elements, there are NO Elements joined here...each Pair has One element above and one at lower comm.

I explained in Diagram that...I used Two Pairs, one for each Input brushes, and Two Pairs at Output (Gen) Brushes, not to fill in Diagram and make it a Mess with forty Coils there!!

They overlap as you see on Diagram, by leaving one pole to start next round...forward...

Did you see my Picture of Armature wound?

[IMG][/IMG]

2. A blue coil and a red coil each have a wire connected to the same commutator segment. Correct?

NOPE, it is the same topology, same laws as the small R/S Motor, Positive goes to Positive Commutator and Negative to negative Comm, ONE Element per Pair above, one top. This (+-) is MAKING SURE, when Positive On, they turn Blue (North) and Red (South) by checking FIRST PAIR with a Compass, If you do not apply or not sure of the Right Hand Rule...
Now, you have to figure the main rotation of Scooter...Left or Right, In my case I had to make it Left direction (CCW)...to go forward...So this drawing is for that application...I know you could reverse Voltage terminals...but the Design should be conceived based on BASIC and Operational direction...because all ""Throw Out Angles" are calculated based on getting the "most" of Torque-Speed.

So, the winding of First Coil...apply a small battery to terminals to check Pole orientation, then mark which will be your ALWAYS POSITIVE Commutator...and start winding...You will have to fill in ALL Commutator elements...at One above, One below...First Pair..and so on.

Let me know


Am sorry about your confusion there...

Now, that is why...I ask you in My previous post, "if you have calculated the amount of wire that Motor will take"...to set Comm so close to armature...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Turion]

Got it. Thanks!

Dave

[Ufopolitics]

Great Dave...sleeping well now...lol

Got it. Thanks!

Dave

Ok Dave am glad!

Good night

Regards


Ufopolitics

[Turion]

Sleep? Are you kidding? I'll be up all night winding coils! LOL. Or dreaming about winding coils!! I don't know which is worse.

Dave

[Pmwuk]

Idiot guide to winding

Hi guys I'm new to all this but would love to join in but has anyone got a idiots guide to winding a motor and following the diagrams of UFO's ?

[Turion]

Different motors take different windings. Folks will be more than happy to help, but need to know what motor you are using...how many sections on the commutator, etc. You need TWO commutators, so in most cases that means taking apart TWO motors to make one. The easy way to start is with the little Radio Shack motors, just to see how it works, but that is not a good motor to really do any testing with since no two are exactly alike because they are so cheaply made.

Dave

[Pmwuk]

I'm starting with the easiest one with 3 armatures then will progress once I get the hang of it

[pesonic]

25 Pole

Hi UFO,
I would like to rewind this 25 pole beauty, can i take
your 20pole example and group 5 poles together instead of 4 poles?

Thanks for all your work


PS: Can anybody tell me the best way to get rid of this grey coating?

[waterfall]

open file

Hello UFO

My motor modification is almost complete!!! just got to do some final adjusts on the brushes position relative to the new collector! ... It came out better than i could imagine... Merit for my friends that operate those nice big machines..

It was a 18 pole and 18 segments commutator and two brushes motor. Of course now it get two commutator with 18 segment and 4 brushes... while still having the 18 poles

just remembering its a 0,5 HP motor

Is there a formula to calculate the number of turns depending on the volts applied?

If not

I would like to know from you if you can help me, telling me +- how many turns i should start with and with what configuration... you mentioned i could use the 3 pole design, but i'm limited there because i'm not sure how to use more poles in this design... I think i understood the 12 pole schematic, maybe 18 poles is something like that isn't?

Could you explain more about that angles interact to me with some details please. Why do you activate the coils at the weak field rather than stronger field?

Well I'm thinking about this... if wind only three coils

Or if would be better to try using all the poles?

Changing subject:

I noticed that teslas patent drawing you always show here, has two slip rings and one commutator interconnected.. 4 brushes... Somewhat Like Alexanders patent...


If i understood well in the alexander patent he meant to use one pair of slip ring for each output coil, and each output coil is in the same slot of each input coils---

He says it acts as a motor-transformer-generator aways assisting rotation instead of opposing it. 3x over unity or so…

So each output coil will have a different phase relationship…

I think that if DC is wanted than instead of having many slip rings the generating coils can be full wave rectified and summed together in parallel… or maybe as a three phase would be…

What i'm meaning is that this way only one slip ring will be needed… for the output

Could exist a connection there?


Many thanks yet for the inspiration

Regards

Fabio

Hi Fabio

look this patent too:http://www.rexresearch.com/szabo/wo9318570.pdf
waterfall

[Turion]

Pmwuk,

If you read through the thread from beginning to end, all the info you need is here. For the three pole motor first look at posts 53 and 96. All the info you need has ALREADY been posted.

Dave

[civu08]

Hi all,

I tried to make my first modified motor this weekned, from two small toy motors, i thik 4.5 or 6 V, they looked the same but had different gauge wire. They were 3 poles, but very fragile commutators.

I managed to place the second commutator on the shaft, but had no extra shaft outside the case. For some reason it didn't start, i figuerd my battery was too discharged and i couldn't start it by hand to see if it turns. When i changed the battery i fried the coil that was on... (sound stupid, i know, but i was too excited about this little motor )

Until i get more wire to rewind the coils for this little guy, i'll put it aside. My plan is to use some rotors from two AC motors, 12 poles each for the next step. The comutators have 24 slots each, i'll use every other one to connect my coils.

I can't upload pictures yet, as my laptop broke down... but i'll have it soon fixed.

Happy motoring

[MasterBlaster]

Hi UFO,
PS: Can anybody tell me the best way to get rid of this grey coating?

The grey stuff is more than likely baked on. Watch this:

Winding of an Electric DC Motor - YouTube

[Pmwuk]

Pmwuk,

If you read through the thread from beginning to end, all the info you need is here. For the three pole motor first look at posts 53 and 96. All the info you need has ALREADY been posted.

Dave

Thanks for the help

[Bob Smith]

Toy Motor Mod for Civu 08; Winding Guide for PMWUK

I tried to make my first modified motor this weekned, from two small toy motors, i thik 4.5 or 6 V, they looked the same but had different gauge wire. They were 3 poles, but very fragile commutators.

I managed to place the second commutator on the shaft, but had no extra shaft outside the case. For some reason it didn't start, i figuerd my battery was too discharged and i couldn't start it by hand to see if it turns. When i changed the battery i fried the coil that was on... (sound stupid, i know, but i was too excited about this little motor )

Civu, I started with a 3 pole toy motor as well. It would not work until I turned the end caps 90 degrees at each end and placed them on the motor, and it worked like a charm. My motor cases were like flattened cylinders. The ends had to have slots cut into them (I used a very fine exacto saw) to make them fit over the ends. The trick is to be precise to keep the clearance between rotor and stator magnets. If this is your issue, once the brushes have been turned 90 degrees relative to the stator mags, she may run for you. You may have to make some fine adjustments, and once you've found the right seating of end caps, a drop of crazy glue at top and bottom of each end will hold the caps in place.

Pmwuk Hi guys I'm new to all this but would love to join in but has anyone got a idiots guide to winding a motor and following the diagrams of UFO's ?

PMWUK, Dave's right. It's important to read; and check out the posts he points out. There's an excellent 5 pole wiring explanation here:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post201543

UFO's 5 pole wiring diagram is above, and the 3 pole diagram Dave refers to is below.
If you're winding 3 poles, follow UFO's instructions closely.
Go slow, be methodical with it, follow the Yellow Brick Road, and watch what happens to the witch .
Bob