My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[Ufopolitics]

RPM's over Time Graph on Three Runs.

Hello,

Below is the Graph on the other Three Tests done at Third Video.

[IMG][/IMG]

RPM'S VERSUS TIME GRAPH

I have set a "neutral" time scale, based on seconds, in order to fit all three main tests performed on Third Video, locating each run by the Starting Seconds on each First Frame.

For example Test 1 (Batteries freshly charged) running Motor to measure Top Speed starts at frame 09:38 to 10:30 on Video real time, so I fit it at second 00:38 on Time Graph Scale...and so on.

Each point on Graph is reflected as 09:38>>5790 which is Video Time and >>RPM's

Basic Analysis here is to observe how long it took Motor to reach 7000 RPM's from starting point (09:38 to 10:14), plus,the uneven curve over time on the Blue Curve (First Batteries Run) versus a really robust start at 6683 on Green Curve (Second Batteries Run), climbing up to 7001 in exactly Three (3) Seconds (22:49 to 22:52) ...also to notice the steady climbing up above 7000.

This comparison is essential to understand the real regeneration of batteries that takes place on this System...even though Meters show 0.100 mVolts less after charging Supercaps.

The Run on Supercaps (Red Curve) even being so short, it shows clearly an increase to almost 14,000 RPM's (13,899) at Peak level, then a smooth decay over time and not a steep vertical down curve.


Regards


Ufopolitics

EDIT 1: Wanted to share something interesting happening to the same batteries I have been using for all this videos...

I have noticed Batteries are increasing their charging capacity every time more...in this last video they went above 1.4 Volts as you have observed...normally they went up to 1.320 to 1.327 or so before when new and for a while...plus they are lasting longer and longer every time more.

I charge them with a pretty nice "intelligent charger" for ENERCELL (Radio Shack) specifically design for AA and AAA Nickel-Metal Hydrate Batteries...it is electronically controlled and auto shut off when batteries are fully charged.

[Ufopolitics]

Prior Graph Analysis

Hello to All,

Below is the visual analysis from previous Graph...

[IMG][/IMG]

The description...

First, I enclosed the "Critical Recovery Section" with a red rectangle, where System starts charging Supercaps in Parallel.

On this Analysis I have highlighted with black arrows the main drop downs and ascensions of curves over time.

Going by Time order, RPM's Curve suffer a radical drop down when Bank 2 connects at 10:38, an immediate reaction from motor start generating an ascending curve that last 1:28 minutes (10:38 to 12:00), where speed raises from 2147 collapse to 4796 RPM's....that is more than DOUBLE the collapsed RPM's.

On the upper right rectangle of the Critical Recovery Area I have enclosed in a smaller red shaded rectangle a Radical Voltage Stabilizing Area, where Bank 2 (Green) takes a dive, a drop down, to return UNDER Bank 1...(notice on previous times, Bank 2 was above Bank 1, for over 200 mV ).

Below We have an identical shaded rectangle for RPM's Curve corresponding -in time- where curve describes identical drop/ascend rates. So, Motor has driven this RPM's down and then Up, in order to decrease Bank 2 higher voltage, to then start a race to stabilize Both Banks...

From 13:30 On...We see an evenly ascending curve for V1, V2 and RPM's...meaning, acceleration while recharging returns to original running speed of 7000.
This happens in approximately 3 minutes (from 13:30 to 16:30, where RPM's reaches 6997)...The only difference is that now...We have charged Supercap Banks to the point of driving Motor up and above 13,000 RPM's...as We all observed on Video.

And... as we have seen on previous videos, as Supercaps get more charged up, they start taking over the supply...so, the less the Battery banks drain/supply power out...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[RandyFL]

DC Motors...

Huff, Puff, Huff, is the noise coming from me as I try to swim through the "SPAM" on this forum to find my Beloved thread.

RandyFL, please listen and take note to what Prochiro and UFO are trying to tell you.

The Electric motors you are considering for your EV, are amperage HOGS, that are plagued with energy wasting heat problems, and battery damaging "Demands".

Please read through this thread, it's a novel by now, but worth it.

Regards Cornboy.

At All

Hello UfO,Dana, CornBoy and all who have contributed to my questions...
In fairness I did ask to go private or elsewhere for my particular questions as not to distrupt the forum thread...
And in Fairness to your work UfO I apologize for not building the RS motor previously...
I had started on the RS project but egads I got side tracked...
I will keep spot on the RS project before asking anymore questions regarding other motors...
I came across a statement I saw the other day... Even tho you build a EV green machine...the electric grid you hook up to
is still polluting the atmosphere producing the electricity for the grid...
Also for ppl still using ICE/s to go from point A to B this is how energy you're wasting with ICE...

1.Tensioner: ~0 kW
2.AC: 4kW (5hp)
3.Alternator: 5-6kW (7-8hp)
4.Water Pump: 10kW (13hp)
5.Power Steering: 2-4kW (3-5hp)

Also interesting...

5 hp :
1 Hp = 746 watts
5 Hp = 3730 watts

which most of you know :-)


All the best...for now.
RandyFL

[Cornboy 555]

Hello again,

Hello RandyFL,

I want to write this before I keep going here...

This is a Thread about building and showing what we ALL have done. As to "back me up" by replicating and verifying all the work I have shown is REAL...PLUS discussing, exposing your doubts, your opinions related to testing and construction counseling.

I will be fully backing up (like I have done so far) all the ACTIVE members who are building (proven by showing with pictures or videos) models TO CONTRIBUTE to the RESEARCH & DEVELOPMENT of this Thread.

I will be more than happy to welcome new members willing to contribute with their work here...doing what so many other have done so far...

I will happily answer questions related to doubts in understanding about Asymmetric Machines...differences, etc,etc...like I have been doing for the past years.

But,

This is a Thread, where I will NOT be backing up ANY "Personal Projects" to satisfy Your personal needs...basically, when this requests or "counseling"... comes from someone who has NOT even shown -at least- a $4.99 Radio Shack little Five Pole Motor conversion to Asymmetric.

So, please, do not waste your time or mine or any of the ACTIVE BUILDERS here on this Thread in your "prime time entrance" for your own self benefit ...it is unfair.

Understand that if everyone will enter here...and start asking how to convert a Toyota...or a Ferrari into an Electric Asymmetric Vehicle...which motor will be "suitable" etc,etc...this Thread will take a "Turn" that I DO NOT WANT.

This Thread is to show, to discover and to TEACH ways to benefit Humanity in general...not dedicated to "sponsor" any "specific" Personal requests.

Regards to All


Ufopolitics

Huff, Puff, Huff, is the noise coming from me as I try to swim through the "SPAM" on this forum to find my Beloved thread.

RandyFL, please listen and take note to what Prochiro and UFO are trying to tell you.

The Electric motors you are considering for your EV, are amperage HOGS, that are plagued with energy wasting heat problems, and battery damaging "Demands".

Please read through this thread, it's a novel by now, but worth it.

Regards Cornboy.

[Ufopolitics]

Some words about This Thread...

Hello again,

Hello RandyFL,

I want to write this before I keep going here...

This is a Thread about building and showing what we ALL have done. As to "back me up" by replicating and verifying all the work I have shown is REAL...PLUS discussing, exposing your doubts, your opinions related to testing and construction counseling.

I will be fully backing up (like I have done so far) all the ACTIVE members who are building (proven by showing with pictures or videos) models TO CONTRIBUTE to the RESEARCH & DEVELOPMENT of this Thread.

I will be more than happy to welcome new members willing to contribute with their work here...doing what so many other have done so far...

I will happily answer questions related to doubts in understanding about Asymmetric Machines...differences, etc,etc...like I have been doing for the past years.

But,

This is a Thread, where I will NOT be backing up ANY "Personal Projects" to satisfy Your personal needs...basically, when this requests or "counseling"... comes from someone who has NOT even shown -at least- a $4.99 Radio Shack little Five Pole Motor conversion to Asymmetric.

So, please, do not waste your time or mine or any of the ACTIVE BUILDERS here on this Thread in your "prime time entrance" for your own self benefit ...it is unfair.

Understand that if everyone will enter here...and start asking how to convert a Toyota...or a Ferrari into an Electric Asymmetric Vehicle...which motor will be "suitable" etc,etc...this Thread will take a "Turn" that I DO NOT WANT.

This Thread is to show, to discover and to TEACH ways to benefit Humanity in general...not dedicated to "sponsor" any "specific" Personal requests.

Regards to All


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Hello to All,

Below is a Graph I have built, based on exact Video Timings,(from latest THIRD VIDEO, ) reflecting Voltages from both Banks and RPM's over time.

I know many of You are already familiar with this type of Graphics...and it will be very simple for you to read it at first glance...however, I am trying to explain how we build them, and how it works, in order that any level of knowledge could understand it clearly. So, please for all of you who are familiar...bare with me in this first part...

Curves are built from points generated by the intersection of two parameters (VoltsXTime & RPM'sXTime) where Time is common to both, V & RPM.

Blue (Bank 1) and Green (Bank 2) Graph Curves are based on Bank Voltages over Time.
Orange Graph Curve are RPM's reached over Time.

PARALLEL CHARGING/BALANCING CURVES GRAPH:

[IMG][/IMG]

PARALLEL BALANCING GRAPH ANALYSIS

1-At Time 10:32 I turn On Bank 1 (Blue on Graphic) for Parallel Charging/Balancing, Voltage on Bank 1 (V1) drops to 0.378 mV, RPM's to 4967

2-At Time 10:38 (Six Tenth's of a second) I turn On Bank 2 (Green) to Parallel Charging, V2 Drops to 0.643mV, RPM's drops "drastically and steep" to 2147.

3-System goes through a "recuperating" stage from this critical drop down, and we see an ascending RPM curve, right after this collapse in just less than Three Minutes (from 10:38 to 13:00).

4-It is interesting to observe the V2 drop down from Bank 2, from 12:00 on "curve takes a Dive down"...to then start stabilizing to Bank 1, from 12:23 to 13:00.

5- From 13:30 on, both voltages start an EVEN Ascending Curve over Time with very close values only by tenth's of mV apart. However, Blue Curve (V1, Bank 1) remains above V2 till they reach common-crossing Point B in Time 14:33 where V1=V2= 1.010 V, after that point on, Green V2 crosses "slightly" above V1...

I have set this Points A & B, where both V1 & V2 reaches almost identical or equal values as the common point where they cross.

Point A:Bank 1= 0.836 mV / Bank 2= 0.837 mV...Difference= 0.001 mV Time: 12:23

Point B:Bank 1= 1.010 V / Bank 2= 1.010 V...Difference= 0 (Zero) Time:14:33


In my opinion, this simple System does this "crossovers" in order to keep rectifying-balancing to more accurate values. The average difference between each Bank (after 13:30 On) is -/+ 0.020 mVolts.

On the RPM's Curve (Orange) We can see almost a perfect "Mirror Image" in Parallel to the Voltage Ascending Curve from Both Banks from 13:30 on...

We must understand the System went through a recovery after a "Fatal Error" when both super capacitor banks were forced to go beyond Motor running levels...however, still recuperated in exactly 02:28 (Two minutes, twenty eight seconds) meaning from 10:32 to 13:00...and kept going up and up...

We need to "see" all this numbers thrown too fast in a video..."standing still" in Linear Graphs like this, it takes time to build it...but I believe is worth it, for deeper analysis of what we all have observed.

Next I am showing the Graph from "Batteries Only" run over Time...prior and after charging Super Caps...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[prochiro]

Hello RandyFL

Sounds like you have your hands full. Considering a WarP 9 or 11 just may be a good idea for the Toyota. The thing I wonder about is combining air conditioning into the package. Volts are RPM's and power is Amp's. The Warp's are using all the amps they can get for acceleration and cooling is for a short time during acceleration is no problem. Adding air conditioning to the equation at this time will still add to the amp draw as if you are constantly accelerating. At once you can see more cooling power is needed. But it is not the cooling I worry about, it is the mileage. On average flat surface, you should expect about 25 miles per charge, shouldn't count on more but always happy to get it. Now, with air conditioning on with effect of amps drawn, might bring mileage to the effect of constant up hill or acceleration. It might be as low as 5 or 10 miles per charge. Not good,,,,,
What we here are trying to do is develop a manor in which Amps are reduced to the point that we can afford them. UFO's all North winding does indicate we are on the correct track. There are many changes needed to bring this system up to the size that will do the Toyota, but we will get there. The current investigation using super capacitors is going well. The cost of super capacitors is shocking but so is a Warp 9. When it all is settled down, we will have a device and system that may well initially may cost as much as the warp 9 but have a much smaller every day cost, as well as greater mileage. My hope is to get to the point of NO daily cost.

This earth of ours is suffering from our chemicals, weather gas or medication. In the long run it does not make sense to use a car that runs without harm, but at the same time, needs heavy charging every day from an electric company or gas company. In effect, we are only changing the location of the chemicals produced.

Go Go Go UFO!

PS
While the days get a bit long here, You might study up on Super capacitors.
' Supercapacitor Auto Balancing using (SAB) MOSFETs '
This is the best information about SC's I have found to date.
All you need to know about Super Capacitors:
Let's learn about Super Capacitors! (A Practical Guide To Super Capacitors)


Where to get Super Capacitors:
Super Capacitors -      Engineeringshock                      Electronics

Where to get mosfets to balance SC's
Invalid Request

super capacitor balancing with mosfet Diagrams
https://www.google.com/search?q=supe...=firefox-a&hs=
0pK&sa=X&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&channel=sb&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&ei=
yeKtU77jNYaSqAaej4LQBw&ved=0CDEQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=9 26

Unique MOSFETs Automatically Regulate And Balance Series-Connected Supercaps
http://powerelectronics.com/discrete...-regulate-and-
balance-series-connected-supercaps?page=1

These are not the only locations, but more to get you started...

Dana

[RandyFL]

DC Motors...

At All

Hello UfO...
Hope everything is working out well for you. And your new projects are everything you hoped for.
I was thinking of turning my 2002 Toyota ICE into a all electric...
the motor is burning oil and the lifters are very noisy and I am having to
replace spark plugs every 3 to 4 weeks...
Looking into the Warp 9 electric motor to replace the ICE. I posed the question about the AC
compressor because Florida is too hot. And it is well worth the added expense in my humble opinion.
Toyota and hybrids have the Air Conditioner connected to the battery(s) and Honda has the ac connected to
the ICE ( back up power supply ) so in Honda's case you turn off the ICE and you can say good bye to
the cool feeling of creature conforts...
I am sure you have looked into the warp 9's and 11 for building electric race track quality EVs...
I was Lucky enough to grow up in a time when the back yard mechanic was King of the block... we would
tear apart engines and just replace the Alts,carbs and starters and put Holleys or modify accordingly...
Hp meant He who got out of starting box with the most won...
The dealers that sell the warp 9 state that its about 1900.00 and shipping around 200.00 ish...
But they or the maufacturer of the warp 9 never talk about Hp or its equivalent.
Baldor does and is quite happy to include the cost of the damn things :-)
My little 1.8L produces about 100 hp and is light enough to beat a mu(stang) at the gitgo but the
stangs will eventually win the race... which is probably the reason my 1.8L needs to be replaced.
Speaking on just Hp to Hp a Baldor 100 Hp motor ( 50K ) would eat up everything on the west coast of FL.
and everything on the east coast of FL and most of mainland USA and I'm not talking about Logistics = battery packs,
controls, PWM and etc.
And I'm sure you have seen the film ( youtube ) of the guy who strapped a warp 9 to a go cart...
Getting back to reality I'm waiting for the (toy)ota to give out...my wife gives up the 2000 V6 Mustang to me
and the new car will be hers...the toyota would be the new donor car project which the warp 9 will fit perfectly
around 250 lbs ish...
Getting back to the ac motor part...
Since you are the " main man " here and you bring experience and know how and generosity ( many thanx ).
And it looks like 5 Hp is the starting number for the ac compressor.
My basic question is... which motor and what size would you fit to do the job required of powering the ac compressor...?
Would you stay 5 or would you go higher... would it be an imperial or would you go with a baldor or something else...
Would you buy a symmetrical with the intent of rewiring it later ( which I am considering )...

All the Best
RandyFL

ps I now have 5 of the RS and 5 of the ones Kogs suggested...but at this time I am trying to finish a P. Kelly project

addendum:
The stang has a tach. and while running the stang with ac on and 40 mph the tach was at 1500 rpm range and cooled the cab effiently.
Which is well with in the range of 5Hp motors

[sampojo]

Source for used electric motors, Joseph Fazzio's ebay

Hello All

What size DC motor would be needed to run a Automobile Air Conditioner...?
I have a 2002 Toyota 1.8L ICE...
I Googled the question and got a relative answer of about 5 Hp ( to me that seems like over kill )
Baldor's 5 DC hp is over 1000.00
Leeson's is around 500.00
These are on the shelf sysmetrical motors ( that could be assymetrically wound of course ) but just figuring out parameters for now...
What I've noticed is: In Florida ( naturally hot summer weather of course ) it takes about 10 -15 minutes for the ac to start cooling the car off,whenst the car sits in the sun. But if I drive alittle faster the ac cools the car off much faster... I don't have a Tach in the Toyota but assuming 50 miles is around 3k - 5k rpm s
Here's the bottom line question...
Wouldn't a 2 Hp dc motor running at 3000 rpm be sufficient to run a ICE ac compressor?

Any and all comments welcome
All the best

RandyFL

Hey Randy, You can go used pretty affordably, but more work than Ufo's Imperial. here is my own private gold mine of used electric motors, Joseph Fazio's Contractor Supply, NJ. I got one of those $1000 2-stator baldors for $29, had a bad bearing. So cool. They have gone on ebay now (mrmisc) I bought the last one they had recently, fully functional for $80. Maybe priced more competitively now. So I have 4 now and intend to maybe build a double rotor model, so I'm stocked up now for dual stators. Hoping the dual stator can almost as well as the quad-style (Imperial). I have my eye on a couple old time quads they have there just in case. I have been out of commission for a couple months now, new hip, and long term income stream kaput. So still hoping I don't get forced into early retirement. But we may be very close to breaking things open here thanks to Ufo. (God Bless you, Man!)

FWIW

[Zardox]

start up

The typical AC motor will have an inrush currant about 4 times the rated amp draw at start up (single phase). About 3 times the rated amp draw for 3 phase provided that the supply line is heavy enough to carry the load. If not the voltage will drop causing the amperage to spike exponentially higher.

[Ufopolitics]

Amperage, not Voltage...

At All

Dana,
I used the 5Hp because it was given as a arbitrary number... If we take money out of the equation wouldn't a 10Hp motor or higher be better than the 5Hp or lower? I guess a call to the compressor manufacturers would be a safe bet using standard averages...

Your statement:
If you are looking for increased performance, you must increase the supply energy, not decrease it.

After talking to a contractor friend and at another time a electrician both stated that higher voltages makes things run better...Using your statement and theirs wouldn't running a DC motor at higher voltages produce a more efficient situation...

Lastly should I bring this conversation privately ( pm ) as I wouldn't want to upset the flow of asymmetrical conversations...

All the Best
RandyFL

Hello Randy,

Leave this conversation here...for others to learn.

As Dana said, it all applies.

To run the AC Compressor it is NOT a matter of more Voltage...but MORE AMPS demand.

Just check any AC, House or Cars...whenever Compressor kicks in (start) you even notice lights dimming out for a sec.
Most of AC Compressors would pull anywhere between 80 to 150 Amps when starting the Motor or Engine that turns them.

As Dana said, in a car it is more Gas...higher idling RPM's automatically turns on actuators on the gas cables or electronics acceleration to go higher RPM's whenever you turn AC System On, or whenever AC starts the compressor On in the recycling.

Normally Compressors in Toyota's or any Japanese cars are from two main manufacturers...and mainly a Nippondenso which are great units that pull lower amps than a typical Delco or Motorcraft from GM or FORD...since their engines are smaller.

The Energy Required to run the AC bolts down to AMPS here...the 12 Volts in a Vehicle remains the same.

So, if you want to keep your car cool without Gas Engine on, just on electrical...you will need to spend quite some money to make that happen, and not talking about Motor expenses...but about extra Battery Supply/Converters/specific independent Compressor from the normal ICE attached to, etc,etc.

Do some research on how TESLA CARS resolves this issue out...a very compact motor, and an Ultra efficient AC Compressor Unit...PLUS another Battery Bank Supply independent from Power Train/Motor-Transmission Drives...just to run Auxiliary Circuits.

And by the way...NOT every Motor out there is convertible to Asymmetric...it has been displayed here before.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[RandyFL]

At All

Dana,
I used the 5Hp because it was given as a arbitrary number... If we take money out of the equation wouldn't a 10Hp motor or higher be better than the 5Hp or lower? I guess a call to the compressor manufacturers would be a safe bet using standard averages...

Your statement:
If you are looking for increased performance, you must increase the supply energy, not decrease it.

After talking to a contractor friend and at another time a electrician both stated that higher voltages makes things run better...Using your statement and theirs wouldn't running a DC motor at higher voltages produce a more efficient situation...

Lastly should I bring this conversation privately ( pm ) as I wouldn't want to upset the flow of asymmetrical conversations...

All the Best
RandyFL

[prochiro]

RandyFL

As your basic figures are rough calculations, I will respond in in general terms. Running a compressor is much the same as running a generator. If a 5HP motor is needed for a generator, that is the minimum HP needed to pull the load at a working speed. If you use less HP, RPM and load torque will suffer and may even stall. Keep in mind that when your air conditioner is running, your gas consumption goes way up. Just because a 5HP motor costs over 1000 dollars, you can not just downsize and make it work. When you drive your auto at faster speeds, you are giving your compressor the high end of required power, possibly over the 5HP level. You may remember what happened when we put an increased electric load on the generator which was powered by the Imperial, it stalled out. If you are looking for increased performance, you must increase the supply energy, not decrease it.

Dana

[RandyFL]

DC Motors...

Hello All

What size DC motor would be needed to run a Automobile Air Conditioner...?
I have a 2002 Toyota 1.8L ICE...
I Googled the question and got a relative answer of about 5 Hp ( to me that seems like over kill )
Baldor's 5 DC hp is over 1000.00
Leeson's is around 500.00
These are on the shelf sysmetrical motors ( that could be assymetrically wound of course ) but just figuring out parameters for now...
What I've noticed is: In Florida ( naturally hot summer weather of course ) it takes about 10 -15 minutes for the ac to start cooling the car off,whenst the car sits in the sun. But if I drive alittle faster the ac cools the car off much faster... I don't have a Tach in the Toyota but assuming 50 miles is around 3k - 5k rpm s
Here's the bottom line question...
Wouldn't a 2 Hp dc motor running at 3000 rpm be sufficient to run a ICE ac compressor?

Any and all comments welcome
All the best

RandyFL

[Midaztouch]

BOOM! This is the start of underground EV RACING! UFO style!!!

Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz