My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[iankoglin]

Number of poles

G'Day ?

Regarding my previuos post

I think I do not know what I was thinking the wiper motors are 10 poles not 24
I tried to edit but it did not work

Regards

[Ufopolitics]

A Better Approach To 12pole_12_comm

Hello Guys,

Please do not argue anymore...
We'll all get there...

Now, let's get something done here...

I just finished the CAD on this beauty...It took me several weeks to arrive to this...it is not simple to conceive an Asymmetric Design, based on a Symmetrical Machine...We have to "see" into a Fourth Dimension...when Coils will reverse at Gen stage...and they must conform certain magnetic patterns, that can never be "mounted or overlapping" at same straight 180 degrees...or will cancel to zero.

Now this Machine I will be winding it tomorrow...it is based on a TORQMASTER Chinese made, Starter Motor for R/C Gas Helicopters, now the Torqmaster has two models, the 90 and the 180...a couple of more USD..but worth for this conversion,the 180...long shaft, nice long armature, and Outer frame does not need to be cut-welded...is long enough..so, I have the 90 Model to use just the Commutator out of it...

This Design is better than the Star of David...more coils (12 Pairs/24 Coils) So, Pmazz...You got it right here...

It is more "stable" and balanced in electromagnetic interactions...it should deliver excellent torque and also great speed...yes, both.
I will be using 18 awg...have to calculate how many turns, but guessing should be around 10 to 15 per coil...

I have color coded the Coils-Pairs, just for easier identification in three groups Blue(N)>Red(S)--Cyan(N)>Orange(S)---Green(N)>Yellow(S)
So they are Four Pairs of each set of Colors combinations...they are numbered in array from P1 to P12

If you notice Motor (Input) is making contact at P4, GEN (Output) at P10...seen at Commutator "Dial Tone"...Now look at Pair of Coils P4 and P10 at their position related to each others and to stators...they are opposed at 180 degrees right?...However, (and this the "essence" here) their "Coils Axis" are "Bent" in a curve...that never "meets, nor crosses nor laps" between them...therefore they configure a "Dual Convex Shaped Pattern"...or ")("..it "should" work excellent...according to previous experience ...still, let me cross fingers...


Regards to all


Ufopolitics


[IMG][/IMG]

[Ufopolitics]

No sweat Ian...

G'Day ?

Regarding my previuos post

I think I do not know what I was thinking the wiper motors are 10 poles not 24
I tried to edit but it did not work

Regards

Hello Ian!!


Good to see You around here!

Don't worry...if it is a 10Pole I have a"Dual Pentagon"...nice proven design...works awesome...
And if it is a 24 is also Ok...a variation of the above Diagram will allow 24 Pairs...or 48 Coils...a Super monster!!...


Warm regards dear friend


UFO

[Ufopolitics]

Hobbico Torqmaster

[IMG][/IMG]


TowerHobbies.com | HCAHCAP3305 HCAP3305 Hobbico Panel Ready TorqMaster 180

Regards


UFO

[pmazz850]

UFO,
Thanks for the info. No, I don't have a 16,18,20 pole, yet!
I have a 12 pole blower motor that I'm converting from a car. I also am making the steel free 5 pole but thats a different story.
This 12 pole has somewhat small channels for the wire. I don't think I can wind it like your new configuration here. Thats alot of turns in one channel. At least not with a decent size wire. The reason I chose to do this 12 pole is because it was free. And my initial small motor had zero shaft when completed. This one will have plenty of shaft, The stator housing is going to be aluminum because the motot had some cheap ass crimped metal housing that was damaged. The brush assy's will be easily adjustable the way they will be mounted. Today I have to bore out the housing a little and drill the holes for mounting the brush assy's and I should be able to post some pics so you can see what I'm working with.
I'm looking around for some better motors to convert.
Thanks for your time.

Regards!

[DadHav]

Warm Milk

Do you need to go back to your plexiglass toys with a LED, suck on your gums and after a spell or two, re-read what I wrote? Very slowly? But you know better, don't you? Don't you?

I explained myself very clearly, if U.P. has an issue, he will have no problem expressing himself, ask F.H?

Suggestion? Try drinking some warm milk and go to sleep and dream of what is unfolding in spite of nay sayers!

Oh and, Good night.

Zap. I did re-read your post and looked at the link closely. I do owe you an apology. At first glance I thought you where promoting your own product. UFO, Did you see the large out-runner on the video from Zap's link. I've been waiting a long time to see one like that yet alone with a new drive system. Zap, that was really mean about the the milk. I hate milk.
J

[DadHav]

90's

[IMG][/IMG]


TowerHobbies.com | HCAHCAP3305 HCAP3305 Hobbico Panel Ready TorqMaster 180

Regards


UFO

I know there's a lot of the 90 version around. I have a few myself. If you ever see an R/C swap meet you'll probably see dozens of these and they can be had for $10.00 or so. UFO, Just a quick question if you don't mind. I'm sure it may have been asked before but do you plan on, or have you ever worked on a brushless version of your modification?
John H.

[zapzap]

Just a bit of information, and apology.

Sorry about the milk comment; I watched (online) that system develop from a rinky dink start to where it is now. I'm sincerely glad you took a second look.

What I also "thought" might be of practical use here (in some form) is the "Digital Control Unit". But that base may already be well covered...

As an aside, I learned about Tesla via trial by fire living in former Communist Yugoslavia in the mid-sixties. The anti-American sentiment was bad enough (Vietnam?), but was nothing compared to the anti-Edison outrages. Lucky for me I was in the Northern part and attended an Italian speaking school so some sanity ruled the day. Glad I wasn't in Serbia at the time!

Anyway, as U.P. ordered, back to work! And thanks for your input.

[Iotayodi]

Interesting on the 30 degrees and the gap on a horseshoe magnet. Someone posted an interview with Tesla and one of his statements was to oscillate between the 2 magnetic fields without a total magnetic collapse. I dont know if that was pursued further. The only way I can see this oscillation is with a horseshoe magnet with the proper gap rotating at the proper speed. Im wondering if you put a horseshoe magnet at each point,with the proper strength,rotation speed and gap, if it would have an overall affect. And if the coils should be the stator or vise versus.
The separation of the fields at the poles seem to be 30 degrees dont it.
Good stuff Ufo

[MasterBlaster]

Has anyone considered using a car starter motor for this project?

Permanent-magnet Starter Motor (Automobile)

The Bosch stater motor seems to be very common and should be available cheaply from scrap yards!

Here is the anatomy:

Bosch 110 series starter motor brushbox and bushing change. - YouTube

[Cherryman]

Leedskalin?

Interesting on the 30 degrees and the gap on a horseshoe magnet. Someone posted an interview with Tesla and one of his statements was to oscillate between the 2 magnetic fields without a total magnetic collapse. I dont know if that was pursued further. The only way I can see this oscillation is with a horseshoe magnet with the proper gap rotating at the proper speed. Im wondering if you put a horseshoe magnet at each point,with the proper strength,rotation speed and gap, if it would have an overall affect. And if the coils should be the stator or vise versus.
The separation of the fields at the poles seem to be 30 degrees dont it.
Good stuff Ufo

Is it just me, or is your description almost equal of the Edvard Leedskalin "machine" ? ..............

[Ufopolitics]

Brushless Version

I know there's a lot of the 90 version around. I have a few myself. If you ever see an R/C swap meet you'll probably see dozens of these and they can be had for $10.00 or so. UFO, Just a quick question if you don't mind. I'm sure it may have been asked before but do you plan on, or have you ever worked on a brushless version of your modification?
John H.

Hello Dad Hav,

Yes Dad Hav, I have worked in a Brush Less version Asymmetrical System, actually at that time, I did not know anything about the Asymmetry or the Symmetry...it was that Motor that lead me into this work...But it is a Kind of Motor completely different in structure to any you guys have seen so far...structure wise...it does not have a Real, but a "Virtual Shaft"...And the "Power Take Off" is from external cylinder-rings...

I made it with Infra Red transmitters-receivers, and the whole frame is made of Carbon Fiber, except its Stators-Armature and special type of axial bearings.

Now, converting an "existing" Brush-Less Motor into this Set-Up, is a complete "Mission"...since the Bell Housing where magnets are mounted is based on small magnets arranged in a NSNSNSNSNS, and in order to make my design, we will have to remove them all, and set them in blocks of NNNN-SSSSS-NNNN, and the "luck" to get them out without cracking is very low.

I have a 65 MPH Electric Bike, a 72 Volts LiPo...not a Scooter...that have that Motor type as part of the rear wheel...and I will be transforming it...but that is not gonna happen in a near future...since the whole Controlling-Speed System will also have to be modified. Motor is a 120 degrees 72V/80 Amps BLDC.

I have uploaded a Brush-Less version here before, a Three Pole, but that is just a Concept yet to be developed.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Not Good...

Has anyone considered using a car starter motor for this project?

Permanent-magnet Starter Motor (Automobile)

The Bosch stater motor seems to be very common and should be available cheaply from scrap yards!

Here is the anatomy:

Bosch 110 series starter motor brushbox and bushing change. - YouTube

Hello MasterBlaster,

The problem with this Motors is their Armature-Poles arrangement...
It is the latest concept of Symmetrical Systems, it has very narrow space between poles, since they use just one heavy gauge wire per segment...Symmetry can "afford" to do that since the whole rotor winding is just One Coil...

But We can not make just One single Turn Coil or Two per Pair, with that thick wire ...it will be a definite zero ohm short circuit. There is absolutely no room there to wind several turns.

Sorry about that.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Same 12p 12 Comm/rotated 90 Degrees

Hello to all,

Below is the same Configuration to last night's (well last morning)...but with a Ninety Degree Turn of both, Commutators and Brushes, since this Motors have the Brushes arranged this way (90 D to Stators), this will make it even easier to convert, I also has turned a bit more the Coils, to make them align better (if you notice) P1 Coils junction is completely in a 180 degrees to its respective commutator contact element P1, and so on.

[IMG][/IMG]

Everything is "relative...meaning, we could turn this set up like I have done now...and all it takes is to run terminal Coil wires to the specified positioning of contact element at Commutator...

It would have been a lot of trouble to turn those brushes physically within the Casing...

Now, this motors are $40-50 USD, some Hobby Shops have them for like $37.00(Model 180)...and like Dad Hav said, the 90 models are cheaper and could be found even cheaper...but the 90 is shorter, and then you will DO have to cut and weld steel frame to elongate it...plus pretty short shaft enough to "barely" insert a Pulley or a Dyno Wheel...

Therefore, I HIGHLY recommend the 180 as the Main embodiment to mount everything to. it would be a much easier conversion, plenty of shaft and smooth operation...pls trust me.

I expect to be finished tonight late...or tomorrow noon winding it...still working on Fiber Wound Stator CAD Spec's...


Regards to all


Ufopolitics

[IndianaBoys]

DC motor from gatorade bottle.

Hi UfoPolitics,

It is great to watch you adapt your discovery to many different types of platforms.

Came across these videos that you might find interesting as idea generators.

It would be great to reduce your discovery down to readily available items that most anyone that was interested could find around the world. Something anyone could build to demonstrate the principle(s), allow them to participate and share with those they know. Simplify the learning curve and shorten the runway for takeoff to understanding

DC motor from gatorade bottle.
DC motor from gatorade bottle. - YouTube

Experiment: electric rotor, easy to implement.
Experiment: electric rotor, easy to implement. - YouTube

Mouse Trap Simple Electric Motor
Mouse Trap Simple Electric Motor - YouTube

Mouse Trap Walking Beam Electric Motor
Mouse Trap Walking Beam Electric Motor - YouTube

Magnet motor with coils
Magnet motor with coils - YouTube

A simple DC Motor DIY
A simple DC Motor DIY - YouTube

Homopolar Motor With Five Speed Manual Stick-Shift
Homopolar Motor With Five Speed Manual Stick-Shift - YouTube

These Hearts Are On Fire ]
These Hearts Are On Fire - YouTube

My Multi-Axis Homopolar Motor
My Multi-Axis Homopolar Motor - YouTube

Motor CC
Motor CC - YouTube

Super simple electric motor
Super simple electric motor - YouTube

A) 1910 flywheel motor works from a D cell (gone)
A) 1910 flywheel motor works from a D cell (gone) - YouTube

Thank you for your continued contributions Ufopolitics!

IndianaBoys