My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[pmazz850]

UfO and turion,
Thanks for the good tips on making commutators. I will probably use this info.

Regards!

[Iotayodi]

so sometimes my Voice goes out of its directional angle of audio capture...So that could be a possibility...

The volume of the motor running goes down simultaneously too. Maybe its because of the cavity blocking the sound as the motor is inserted. Just curious as to the effect of the volume.

[Ufopolitics]

Using This Info...

UfO and turion,
Thanks for the good tips on making commutators. I will probably use this info.

Regards!

Hello Pmazz,

I am sorry, but "Using This Info"...will definitively cost you some kind of small papers, that some People have given an "infinite value"...some call them "Legal Tender Notes"...

Isn't that right Turion?










Kidding...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Hello Sebosfato

So if i could wind a coil around each pole it gets the maximum speed?
I mean grouping one or two pole per coil? Instead of six poles for each coil for example...


Thanks in Advance...
Regards

Sebosfato,

You got it exactly and completely "upside down" , reversed, opposite, all the way contrary, wrong...my Dear Friend...

If you wind One Coil per Pole, 1 coil to 1 pole...let´s just say...in a 12 pole machine...it will go slower than a stepper motor, running at Half quarter of a square wave...or like the Hour needle of a slow watch...VERY SLOW!

If You wind out of that same 12 Pole Armature...with just TWO COILS, comprehending exactly SIX POLES EACH, therefore dividing that rotor in two...that Motor will go super fast...just because you have right there a "Throw Out Angle" of 180ş...PER COIL...
While in the One(1)Coil per(X) One (1) Pole...You will have a Throw Out Angle of exactly 30ş...

I hope you understand me now...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

I believe I have seen that methodolgy...

I have made many, MANY commutators over the years using copper roof flashing from Lowes that comes in long rolls. The hardest part of the process is determining how many segments you want on your commutator and then figuring out how wide those segments must be (making sure to include the gaps in between) and then creating a form to bend the metal to your specs.

I built a jig for my table saw that is clamped in place. and I clamp my commutator piece to it. I make my commutators out of three pieces. A hollow tube and two end pieces. (Usually pvc pipe and the end pieces out of plastic I can spin on my grinder to sand until perfectly round for the end pieces)

WIth the jig clamped to the table saw and the commutator piece (minus the end caps) clamped to the jig, I slowly raise the saw blade until I get the length of cut I need. Then turn the saw off, lower the blade, and rotate the commutator to make the next cut. If the cut is not as deep as I need in some places (because of the curve of the saw blade) I use a drill bit of the appropriate width or a hacksaw blade to extend the length of the cut, using the channel the saw blade has left me as my guide.

I don't have the program to do the graphics to show what I am talking about, but here is a crude hand drawing that shows what I have been doing.

EDIT: I should mention that each slot I cut on the commutator has two pieces of copper from two different commutator segments in it. To make sure they do not touch I will cut a piece of very small diameter wire with insulation on it and wedge between the pieces of copper with a screwdriver to hold them apart until that gap can be filled by hardened epoxy. You can also cut the tabs of the "U" shaped copper long enough so that they go all the way through and can be bent over on the inside to hold them in place and keep them from falling out while you are moving the commutator around.

Hope this is of benefit to somebody.

Dave

Hello Turion,

When I saw your Painting...automatically, it triggered in my mind some kind of "Deja Vú"...some kind of "Ancient Past History" came to my mind...then I saw wooden wheels...stock with old Copper thick Metals pieces...while some very old polished brass bolt round heads...attached together through rusted metal strips...all the wooden strips together...

That is when I realized I was in the middle of the Etruscan Era...





Just kidding, Man...I am sorry!!!...great explanation!!

Another way of making commutators even better, (of course not based on Factory Methods) but kind of more complicated to get shapes...would be to find a "T" Shaped Extrusion of Copper...or an "H" one would do even better...to be inserted between High Temp Epoxy...or the original Formaldehyde-Silica-Compound, originally utilized in Commutator Industry...or just to be clamped it within a Mica Ring...


Regards



Ufopolitics

[Turion]

When you only have ancient tools, you have to build the ancient way! LOL

As to my motor with the (10 wire per split) 20 wire coils. Since that is the absolute most windings I could possibly get at this diameter wire, would you suggest just going with smaller wire to get the required resistance? ...If I don't have it. Haven't measured that yet. Had to paint my basement door this morning (wife's request) and have to wait for the paint to dry to go down there. It is blocked off to prevent dogs getting hair all over the paint.

Dave

[Ufopolitics]

Run it first at 12V...

When you only have ancient tools, you have to build the ancient way! LOL

As to my motor with the (10 wire per split) 20 wire coils. Since that is the absolute most windings I could possibly get at this diameter wire, would you suggest just going with smaller wire to get the required resistance? ...If I don't have it. Haven't measured that yet. Had to paint my basement door this morning (wife's request) and have to wait for the paint to dry to go down there. It is blocked off to prevent dogs getting hair all over the paint.

Dave

Hello Dave,

Like I wrote last night..."Take it for a Spin first"... with just a 12V Battery...and watch speed, sounds, (for everything being smoothly running, etc)...First Pray a couple of "Our Father"...Amen...



Nope, do NOT go any finer than 23!!...or it will kill your Motor power...that armature is pretty heavy to get it out of Inertia...besides it will overheat very quick...and may even burn, if applying too High Source power.

Calculating "by eye"...the turns and awg, versus the size-area of Poles...it should read somewhere between 0.5 to 0.8 Ohms...which will be Ok...BUT NOT with too heavy Volts...like 36-48V or more than 10 Amps...

Test it first with 12V...and if it pass that...then try 24V...always watching it close. However, check Torque,Output, IR Temperature read on Coils, etc at 12V before going to 24V..


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

It could be...Iotayodi...

The volume of the motor running goes down simultaneously too. Maybe its because of the cavity blocking the sound as the motor is inserted. Just curious as to the effect of the volume.

Hello Iotayodi,

It could be...Iotayodi...I really, will not object to the possibility you are saying...It will not be a "Scientific Approach, nor Conduct" at all, from my side, to simply disregard a possibility, without solid grounds to back up my opposed or denial behavior...therefore, yes, it could be as you are saying.

Now, I went back and re-watched the video...then I realized I did it with my cheaper Camera, which is a Flip...that Cam, does not even have Auto Focus option...so imagine its "Audio Processing Electronic Unit" will not be good either...

I am just giving my side, in order for you, or Us, to get some conclusions...

I did noticed it happens as I get the little "motor" in...but not by the High Frequency running...it does not happens..?

Have no idea really "who to blame"...

Regards


Ufopolitics

[mariuscivic]

Hi UFO!

Your not going to like this ( just joking )

I have tooked the freedom to modify your 5 pole motor. Made the windings exactly like the 3 pole rotor and it's working good .
I also got a small bonus: litting 3 leds there were should not be anything.( something like lidmotor did)
I dont think that there is a leak there; i'm saying that couse when i disconnect the battery the leds are still lit until the rotor comes to a complete stop

M2U02504 - YouTube

[Bob Smith]

Insulation Paper to Keep Wires in Armature

UFO, thanks for the tip re the insulation paper to keep wires from flying off the armature. I put thin coat of nail polish on two spots where the red insulation rubbed off (after it flew off the spinning rotor). I cut 5mm wide strips and put them in the slots using masking tape covered needlenose (as you directed), fingernails and toothpicks. I followed your picture a few posts back as a guide.
Below are photos of my 3-pole and 5 pole.
- on 3 pole, end caps are slotted inside and turned 90 degrees (notice gap at the end)
- on 5 pole, you can see the paper in between the armature poles, over wires, and final
assembled product
- body guards are positioned next to the machines, just in case...
Bob
http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/.../IMG_0031A.jpg
http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/.../IMG_0033A.jpg

[ampsvolts]

Stator Fins Post 982

But just one thing I see here...on the Blue part...

Let me say this...If You plan to wind that Stator...just like "any other spool of wire...", like am looking at the blue piece...it will not turn...
The Wire Coil Center Axis, MUST be Perpendicularly set to the Armature Axis, just like +...never parallel...

Is this what you mean..... Should top and bottom stator fins be slightly off center to allow the winding to be centralised and perpendicular above the rotor axis?
Thanks AV

[ampsvolts]

The big picture

So UFO.. Where do we go from here. - You mentioned serious use for your technology.. Maybe these questions are premature.. but...

If I was to make a motor whose output could be inverted to power household appliances what is the go?
Would I need a PWM circuit different to the one used in your demonstrations?
Would the system be powered by 36 volt DC.
Would you incorporate a battery changeover circuit to enable continuous top-up to a depleted battery whilst a fresh charged one takes over?

Maybe you have a big whammy still to reveal

Cheers and warm regards
AV

[Turion]

First we need some folks to build and test the larger modified motors. How many have gotten THAT far? I know I'm still working on mine. And if I see good results I'll take the step to build an even larger motor. And then go through the expense of having one fabricated according to UFO's specs

[Ufopolitics]

Hello Dear Mariuscivic

Hi UFO!

Your not going to like this ( just joking )

I have tooked the freedom to modify your 5 pole motor. Made the windings exactly like the 3 pole rotor and it's working good .
I also got a small bonus: litting 3 leds there were should not be anything.( something like lidmotor did)
I dont think that there is a leak there; i'm saying that couse when i disconnect the battery the leds are still lit until the rotor comes to a complete stop

M2U02504 - YouTube

Hello Mariuscivic,






















YOU TOOK THE FREEDOM TO CHANGE MY MOTORS??!!





joking also!!


It is perfectly fine my dear friend!...You could do whatever you feel like with that little motor...However, I will recommend to try even more different set ups, different Magnetic Patterns...but try to always keep them assembled...meaning, try not to take one apart and again and again...but try to keep as many different small armatures as you could build...then test the differences...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Love your "Body Guards"...lol

UFO, thanks for the tip re the insulation paper to keep wires from flying off the armature. I put thin coat of nail polish on two spots where the red insulation rubbed off (after it flew off the spinning rotor). I cut 5mm wide strips and put them in the slots using masking tape covered needlenose (as you directed), fingernails and toothpicks. I followed your picture a few posts back as a guide.
Below are photos of my 3-pole and 5 pole.
- on 3 pole, end caps are slotted inside and turned 90 degrees (notice gap at the end)
- on 5 pole, you can see the paper in between the armature poles, over wires, and final
assembled product
- body guards are positioned next to the machines, just in case...
Bob
http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/.../IMG_0031A.jpg
http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/.../IMG_0033A.jpg

Hello Dear Bob!!

Oh I laughed so much of the two little body guards!!...

You know they have requested I do a test on the two R/S Motors, one Mod, one original...measuring all the "Non Accurate Parameters"...but Hey I will do it and I am getting everything ready for filming both small motors at same time, same batteries bank (not Li-Po's this time..) Some have said that My Machines "Mystic Powers" are due to the Lithium Polymers Batteries... .
..So, no, this time, I will use the "terribly unreliable" Ni-Metal-Hydride...lol

But the reason I was writing this...is because I want to film this video with two little toys behind...just like your body guards...except behind each motor...would be a "Princess" and a "Witch" ..
Which is not a problem because after am done with film takes...I will give them to my Grand Daughter, as she will have fun with them...

Regards Dear Friend!


Ufopolitcs