My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[Ufopolitics]

Now You Are Gonna Kick!!

Master Blaster,

No problem man. Making mistakes is the way we learn, and I am learning all kinds of shortcuts and things that will save me incredible amounts of time on future builds, so it is all good.

Got my coil wound with 50 winds of #23 per coil pair. And my armature is PACKED full!! I could barely slide the plastic wire retainers into the slots in the armature. For those who follow this build, a couple hints.

1. When you go to take those plastic pieces out of your motor (the ones in the slots in the armature that hold the wire in place) when you are disassembling it, if you will push straight DOWN on them first, it will break the seal that they coat everything with and they will slide out easy. You also will need to scrape the crap off them with a razor blade or Exacto knife before you put them back or that rough stuff on them will shred the coating on your wire.
2. If you use big pieces of masking tape to hold your brushes in place while you slide your armature into place, you can get a pair of needle nosed pliars in there and pull the tape out when you are ready.

I will be ordering a couple more of these motors in the morning so I can build the generator half of this project. Should it be wound exactly the same as the motor UFO? It would then have four sets of brushes as outputs, which is cool.

Dave

Hello Dave,


Now it sounds like right!!...That is exactly how it should be, very packed armature...compare weights with original...In my BOSCH it went around One Pound more...of just pure copper.

Just make sure everything is very tight in armature!...wires compacted very well, because it will DO get Much faster than previous one you wound!

Way to go, excellent!!


The Generator part (obviously you want to attach Motor to Generator Machines right?...and not make two identical "twins" ones?

You could do either way...Two identical...or prepare a "Dedicated Generator one"...is up to you...a Generator would be wound different...I will have to figure it out based on 16 poles...but should be something like Half of Coils per poles compared to what you have now...say Two Poles instead of four...then winding 32 pairs, instead of 16...or P1...to P32...of course less turns per coils to fit them there...Understand?

However, this Generator will also run as motor...but will be slow...heavier torque, and not comparable to your first Machine...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Worried about this set...

sputnik ... thanks for your input.

just another scary pic for fun
connections nearly complete and still quite a lot to do before testing.
i'm worried its all going to fly appart catastrophically at some point lol

Hello Sputnik,

What I see there ...is that you will have a lot of bouncing forces withing the armature...created by the switches at just one end of rotor...and sticking out so much...
I also noted you have very low turns of fine wire...per coil...did you measure resistance?...It seems you've got room there to add double that wire...and then compensate a bit more with the switches unbalancing...

Try to run the armature just by attaching a Drill to it...no magnets...just to turn it and test for heavy vibrations.

Use Goggles..and Helmets...and Bullet proof Vest


Regards


Ufopolitics

[prochiro]

Manta Motor

UFO
Are the Manta Motor/Generators of any possible use here or advantagious for rewind?
I have been working on a three x three inch rotor made from scratch, five pole with bifolar #24 with 90 turns on each half coil. Ohms are .95 for each set. No metel except shaft and a few screws on end caps and an adjustable brush setup. Rotor and ends are done. I am working on the stator form and want to know if I should wind the stator as per your drawing or try to match the rotor wire and ohms? All else is progressing well.
Dana

[Ufopolitics]

Hello Prochiro

UFO
Are the Manta Motor/Generators of any possible use here or advantagious for rewind?
I have been working on a three x three inch rotor made from scratch, five pole with bifolar #24 with 90 turns on each half coil. Ohms are .95 for each set. No metel except shaft and a few screws on end caps and an adjustable brush setup. Rotor and ends are done. I am working on the stator form and want to know if I should wind the stator as per your drawing or try to match the rotor wire and ohms? All else is progressing well.
Dana

Hey Dana,

I have no idea what a "Manta Motor/Generator" is...?...could you send pic's or links to them?
Your prototype model sounds great!

Oh yes Dana...The Stator definitively have to match Rotor Coils!...NEVER UNDER Magnetic Strength!...ALWAYS ABOVE!...making them "equal" could create conflict when two pairs at Rotor are getting excited...so make your calculations accordingly.
If you are using Bifilar Coils at Rotor...the stator MUST BE Bifilar also.
Now a Five Pole Rotor will work better with the Stator Config I have shown, which projects Two Poles, one North one South...but you have to make it more beefy.

Now, one thing about this Wound Stators...If You do not pulse them, meaning feed them linear...the Output will produce very little electric flow...The Stator "consumption" will eat most of generated energy to keep energized. On the contrary, if you pulse Stator, you will get RE out through diodes at Zero Point (just like we did our coils in previous thread)...as also will get armature-rotor coils induced greatly also with Radiant (Isolated Secondary Effect), therefore, they will require much less energy to run...so, it is the way to go there.


Great, hoping to see soon your videos and pictures!!

Warm Regards

Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Hello Sebosfato

Hello,

I finished my replication and i have some initial results for my tests...

I used a 12v battery, connecting to the motor windings, it consumes 7 amps and runs fast

if i parallel the generator and motor coils the current is not even distributed between the two windings, but it runs faster. same amperage consumption or just a bit less.

if connected the motor and generator windings in series the amps reduce to 3 amps and the rpm is lower maybe half...

The axis become very hot!!! probably because of the collectors in all cases...

The torque seems great anyway is a half horse power motor.

The original motor connected to this same battery turns really slow, and only 0,5 amps flow...

I don't know what is going on but i see that it seems like if the current was not much restricted by the motor.

I'm not sure if i'm not saturating the rotor with so much current... I wound 10+10 turns per coil, using 18awg wire while the original wire was 19awg

It is a 90v motor and should consume just 5 amps to run at 1700rpm

Regards

Hello Sebosfato,


You have too low resistance per coil!!...Ten(10) Turns of 18 awg per Coil is way too small!!...that is precisely why you get so much Amp Draw...besides getting extremely hot.
¿Did You measure Resistance per Pair of series Coils?
¿Did You read my Previous Post (#1201) on Balancing Inputs from Original to Modified Machines?

Obviously you did not...You have two completely different Capacitance-Resistance Ratio per Momentum of Interacting Coils Input, related to both Machines...Therefore, they will NEVER render same results.

You have to calculate your number of turns in your Modified Motor with the same resistance-turns-awg that you get in your original Machine at their Input Brushes Terminals.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Hey Turion and all.

UFO,

Perhaps we could start putting together some kind of spread sheet for folks who are going to replicate this build so that they don't have to experiment with winding these coils. For instance, I now know that 50 turns per coil pair works on the MY1016 and it is less than 1 ohm of resistance per coil pair. You can purchase them here 24 Volt 250 Watt Electric Motor with #25 Chain Sprocket (MY1016)

Matt gets them from the junk yard where people throw away those scooters all the time. I am going by the thrift shop today to see if they have any because we cant get them from the junk yards here.

Anyway, let me know on the 16 pole generator configuration and I will start winding an armature. I have one even though I don't have the commutators yet. Those are on order. I was trying to picture in my head how to wind the generator so that you would only need one set of four brushes. If you could eliminate that extra commutator, you would have the room to put everything into two complete motor casings attached to each other. I MIGHT still be able to squeeze it all into two casings with four commutators instead of three, but it would be tight.

Dave

Hello Dave,

Did you run your big Armature yet?
Waiting to hear from you!

Now,

I was trying to picture in my head how to wind the generator so that you would only need one set of four brushes. If you could eliminate that extra commutator, you would have the room to put everything into two complete motor casings attached to each other.

Sorry Man...NOT in an Asymmetrical Machine, I have tried every way possible...there is absolutely no way, to work this set up with just one commutator...I wished it will be possible!
Figure in one commutator, you will need positive and negative at same level...that creates an automatic short circuit...no matter what you do...I have even tried diodes between double coils...energy stays within coils and there is no way to extract it...Motor runs great...even at low pulses...but energy trapped inside coils creates a type of "delay"...that is all you will get. plus running awfully hot coils at rotor.

The Asymmetrical Generator winding of your Motor:

Figure you will wind instead of One Pair (let's say "P1")...You will divide that Pair in Four Coils, instead of Two (like you have now in your wound machine)
Meaning, you will have two North Coils and two South Coils, each coil wrapped around Two Poles instead of Four Poles. Now, you will do that sequence at all Now "Groups" and not "Pairs" anymore...so let's call this used to be "P1"...now "G1".

In G1, You could wind the Pairs of Norths and South Coils in series one after the other...or in parallel...and same Old Ohm laws apply here as for Capacitors or Batteries connections...Parallel will deliver higher Amps, average Voltage, less Resistance...and series will add more resistance, added Voltage and less Amps...So that is completely up to the desired application.
At the end you will have either way the same amount of ending terminals as in your previous Machine...meaning sixteen above sixteen lower commutator terminals...same exact areas of interactions...comprehending Four Poles Norths, Four Poles Souths...You just have changed the Magnetic Patterns of Coils.
Now...why this?...Ok, for those who do not know...Now we have more number of vertical (elongated) wires...and much less "horizontal ones"...The Horizontal wires do..."Absolutely nothing, nada...but be the conductors of induced energy by the vertical ones"

I will explain: I always consider the Shaft (Axis) of Machine as being in the Vertical Plane (for sake of reference, and no matter how you turn that motor in space... )
What we are doing here is having double of wires running "Parallel to Machine Axis"...meaning "Vertical Wires"...This wires are the ONLY ONES that actually cut the Magnetic Field Perpendicular to Flux Lines...therefore, they are the ones who really generate electrical induction. And the "Secret Formula" is very simple according to Faraday Induction Laws from the 1800's..."The More Wires you guys have cutting perpendicularly the magnetic field lines ....the higher the energy induced..."
So, if you still want MORE ENERGY...then go One Coil per One Pole...(Meaning you will fraction Four Norths and Four Souths per Group) and you will have now four times the amount of VERTICAL wires as your previous wound motor...

Now, just by one 360º Turn of that machine...figure how many wire-conductors will cut the magnetic field lines...Then you will generate huge amount of energy at just one turn...

What I recommend when building this dedicated Generator machines...is to add a Fiberglass or Mica Annular Board right below commutator...one to each commutator, and very secured to them (epoxy is possible)..and drill holes where every commutator element goes, in order to insert small lines of copper sheets...to grab and clamp wires coming from Coils and also to commutator elements...that way you could "jump" them in that board...as to connect them series or parallel...or even combinations of both... ...while checking which connection will render best results at output..Make sure you number them at the Boards...so you do not get confused or have conflicts...What I do is when wiring add a piece of masking tape to each wire...with their respective numbers...then insert them at board...

This Generator is also a Motor...but it will not have the same Solid Magnetic Patterns at their rotor coils to Stator Interactions, but "Fractal Magnetic Patterns within same Polarity Domains"...therefore, Machine will run (as a Motor) with less speed and less torque...but that is exactly what we need in a Generator...
The way to connect it to "Prime Mover" or the Asymmetrical Motor...is like I have shown before here...preferably shafts connected face to face (less mechanical energy loss) than Pulley to Pulley and belt (side to side connection)
Now the "IDEAL" "Prime Mover" or Asymmetrical Motor to Run this Generators...needs to be the Fastest ones...and also of heavier torque (thanks God we can have both high ends parameters here... )...that is why I recommend the Dual Triangles (Star of David) or other one that have longer "Throw Out Angles" (More Poles per coils as possible, related to stator size and disposition allows)
Therefore, it would be also understood, that a very Long Armature Motor...will be much better than a "Pancake Style Armature" for a Dedicated Generator Machine...those short armatures are better for Motor Applications...However, remember that our Motors also generate energy...

I know this kind of complicates things a bit...so, whenever I have the chance I will render some diagrams...
Please let me know those who understood this post. And please do not hesitate to ask.

Thanks


Regards to all


Ufopolitics

[codeboundfuture]

This Generator is also a Motor...but it will not have the same Solid Magnetic Patterns at their rotor coils to Stator Interactions, but "Fractal Magnetic Patterns within same Polarity Domains"...therefore, Machine will run with less speed and less torque...but that is exactly what we need in a Generator...

Does this mean that this is focused to electrical power output and less focused on mechanical output interactions through being essentially a 'high volume turbine'?

[Ufopolitics]

Exactly Right!

Does this mean that this is focused to electrical power output and less focused on mechanical output interactions through being essentially a 'high volume turbine'?

Yes Codeboundfuture, you've got it perfectly right.
In this Generator Dedicated Machines we are looking for Generation of Energy primarily...
But, but...this does not means we could not wind both systems in just one specifically designed Single Armature Core...right?...
Yes, it could be done...in just one single shafted Armature...but that will require to be designed and cut to our spec's, besides Stators design...too much investment...but the best one though.
However, do not "heat up" your Pentiums over something "not reachable" yet...let's work with what we have for now...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[s e t h]

Hello Sputnik,

What I see there ...is that you will have a lot of bouncing forces withing the armature...created by the switches at just one end of rotor...and sticking out so much...
I also noted you have very low turns of fine wire...per coil...did you measure resistance?...It seems you've got room there to add double that wire...and then compensate a bit more with the switches unbalancing...

Try to run the armature just by attaching a Drill to it...no magnets...just to turn it and test for heavy vibrations.

Use Goggles..and Helmets...and Bullet proof Vest


Regards


Ufopolitics

i chose the wire hoping it would be too thin like it is rather than too thick resulting in too low resistance. next time i'll try a size or two fatter.
at the moment each coil is 6.5 meters of dual wire connected in parallel and at about 1.05 ohm per coil. i don't know the wire thickness and i didn't count the turns iether i'm afraid lol

i'll start at low volts for early testing and hope it doesn't blow up too fast

next model can incorporate many adjustments to make it a better machine

[Ufopolitics]

Engagement Of Both Machines...

An Asymmetrical Motor and Generator Assembly will be mechanically connected as my previous diagram on "Face to Face" Mode One and Mode Two...Now, the Mode One we will get a Clean, Isolated Output (not mixed with our Input Source, as also note we are not "jumping" rear Motor terminals either)
so we will focus on Mode One:

[IMG][/IMG]

As We excite the Input at Motor, Generator will start producing energy...that will also flow through Motor Output side...since they are connected in series here...Now two rectifiers must be connected at both output terminals, Positive-Negative. to avoid back flow from closing circuit at load.

As Motor is accelerated Generator will magnify flow...and will run through Motor...assisting the Output Fields, when loaded, then an "Engagement" of Both Machines will occur as they start to "Compensate" each others through output flows.
It is understood this Output should be Cap-Banked in a dedicated Reservoir...

In the Generator Design for an Specific Existing Asymmetric Motor Machine, is also understood that Generator Interactions, should be considered to run as "Counter Rotation" to Motor Machine Originally conceived rotation (easily done by just moving brush-lines passing stator bisector angles to opposite of Motor, or setting timing backwards)...This will definitively enhance the assisting to Rotation of both Machines when connected in Face to Face mode.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Tests...what??!!...lol

UFO,
Got my motor up and running this morning and made a basic test.

The off the shelf motor ran on 12 volts at .75 amps and produced 1768 rpm for 9 watts.
The modified motor ran on 9 volts at 1.8 amps and produced 1768 rpm which consumed 16.2 watts. It would NOT start on 1.8 amps at 9 volts. I had to turn the amps up almost all the way to 3 amps to get it to start, and then could turn them back down once it was running.

This does not take into account any increase there might be in torque or output power in the modified motor.

What should I do next? Oh, wait, I have an idea....go wind the coil the correct way! Seriously... I am not kidding. I am pretty sure I wound it wrong...AGAIN! Just a diffferent kind of "wrong" than last time. I am going to make a YouTube video of winding this coil and post it so you can see if I have it right.

I have video and am in the process of posting it to YouTube.

Dave

TESTS...WHAT??!!...LOL



Dave, I was ready to answer...then I read last edit...

Let me know what was wrong...


Ok


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Perfect!!

Posted here:
UFO Coil Winding for Dummies - YouTube

Dave the Coil Winder

Hello Dave "The Coil Winder"...
Excellent demo!, yes...that is it!...simple wasn't it, piece of cake right?...

Now, for the rest, it is understood this was just a demo for winding reference-directions per pairs...now,it is understood turns must be very tight pulls each...to create a tight solid and robust built Coil.


Now, Dave, tell me what was wrong?

Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Ok, so the tests before...

Wrong. Nothing is wrong. That's the way I wound it!
NOT!

I got so excited about rewinding with #23 that I reverted back to winding it the same way I wound my first one...splitting the coil in half like in the RS motor, all winds going clockwise. So of course the motor was fighting against itself the whole time.

Believe me, my winds are much, MUCH tighter than in that demo or I would never get 50 winds per coil pair, which is what the ORIGINAL motor had.

Anyway, back to the basement to wind another coil. It will take me an hour or so.

Dave

Dave...


Ok Dave, I see...so the testings before, were made with Coils all clockwise...meaning wrong...and then you are re doing them all again? right?
Oh!...so you also wound R/S Motor that way?...aha!!
Bet ya will get heck of experience by now on this windings...!!...I mean, I would not even dare to contradict any turns directions you say...ever!...


Later


Ufopolitics

[prochiro]

Mamta Motors

Hi UFO
The manta is a 10HP motor or a 8000 Watt generator that gets 200 amps output when run by 48 volts and 10HP.

Dee it here
DC MOTOR / GENERATOR 10 hp 12 24 48 Volt Etek MT/ Electric Car Permanent Mag | eBay

Looks like a lot of fun an it powere a small car, boats and much more. See all the video on that site at the bottom also.
Dana

[Ufopolitics]

Etek Patent

Hi UFO
The manta is a 10HP motor or a 8000 Watt generator that gets 200 amps output when run by 48 volts and 10HP.

Dee it here
DC MOTOR / GENERATOR 10 hp 12 24 48 Volt Etek MT/ Electric Car Permanent Mag | eBay

Looks like a lot of fun an it powere a small car, boats and much more. See all the video on that site at the bottom also.
Dana

Hello Dana,

Ok, yes I know that Motor...is based on the Etek Patent...
Going by your description of Generator Output Watts...I was imagining to see a Monster Machine that would stick out of my screen...

I am really not familiar with those motors...as I also know you can find them much cheaper...(this one on link is a re-manufactured)
By the outside frame...it looks "Too Flat"...I really do not see the room to host much vertical wire...
But mainly must look at poles configuration...'cause some have very thin gap between poles, only allowing One Heavy gauge conductor...I have many of those Motors...not good for this conversions.


Regards


Ufopolitics

Regards