My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[Ufopolitics]

Asymmetrical 22 Poles 2 Stators 2 Brush System

Hello @ ALL,

And of course to Prochiro who has this Armature set...

[IMG][/IMG]

It is based on the same P-12 Original configuration I designed for the 12 Poles Armature, but expanded to a "P-22"...
Note I am comprehending Five Poles per Coil, leaving two Poles, one above and one below free every Two opposed Pairs...like P1 and P12.
The Brush Magenta line could be moved towards P-22, to adjust-increase Torque and Speed, due to higher magnetic "Throw Out" forces (based on closer Stator to set Motor adjusted is North). Generator side will do proper reversal and assist rotation...as always on this Systems.

I figured Stator Area at approximate sizes...but they could be bigger or smaller...if bigger, Machine will increase all parameters...

Now Prochiro, since you have wound Stators, they could be re-winded using Bifilar Coils, as also to Pulse them...
So, borrow Bob's Oscillator...let's see if He will lend it...

However, this Design will perform MUCH Better when pulsed within a Four Stator-Four Brush Assembly.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[prochiro]

Thank You, Thank You, Thank You, UFO

I have been cutting wood all day and just checked to see what was going on. I could not be more surprised as I know you have other things going on and did not expect to see this for several weeks. I will take a shower and study this as well as finish winding my homemade motor tonight as the wire came in also. I had much room left in the stator area so will put on a couple more layers separate to test with. You are the MAN.
Dana

[Ufopolitics]

Better Measurement Tooling Part Iirect Voltage Adaptor

Hello to All,

Here I wanted to share an specific Adaptor that will fit most Digital Multimeter, it is called a Direct Voltage Adaptor, and is typically used for:

• Converts outboard marine, motorcycle and other small engine ignition pulse signals into DC voltage signals.
• Adaptor helps identify secondary ignition problems like failed individual coil packs or poor spark.

[IMG][/IMG]

However, the uses go beyond that, and for those familiar with Outboard Engines, basically their Generators Systems, this tool could read the coils output spikes before getting to the Voltage Regulator, in order to diagnose any faulty coil.
Marine Outboard Engines have a Bell Housing mounted to the Crankshaft, on the upper section, this bell contains several permanent magnets mounted on its vertical outer wall (Number of Coils-Magnets depending on engine CC Displacement/HP) that rotate facing several respective coils attached to a fixed contouring ring housing...this is the "Generator or Alternator Assembly Fields", from here all coils are connected to the Voltage Regulator Box...So, this Adaptor measures the Coils Raw Output in their "Non Filtered State". It has an Electronic Processor that very accurately measures the True Average Direct Voltage Output.

This is a very valuable Tool to measure our Machines Real DC Generating side, since their output is based on Non Linear DC Pulses.

The next best Tool to do this accurate measurement would be an Oscilloscope...however, Tool sells for 31.99 USD

They will fit most DVM Brands Input for Common and Voltage Terminals Pattern-Distance, without the need of a secondary extension cable. Connection is simple, plug in adaptor to Meter and connect your Probes to the Adaptor output...and read.

Some cheaper Digital Multimeter will go "crazy" with My Asymmetric Machines output, and they will keep flashing different range values, at very high-low levels...while other more expensive DVM's will render wrong measurements, since they have built in processor-analyzers-executors, to protect electronic circuitry from high Pulsed DC variable wavelength signals...then we will not obtain a True Reading Value.


Any questions, please ask Me, however, I will be downloading soon a video where that tool is shown at Lab work...and compared to my DSO (Digital Storage Oscilloscope) for Tool Accuracy in reading values.


Next: A very cheap but very accurate method to measure RPM's...BUT ONLY in My Asymmetrical Machines...


Regards to All


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Fixing Your Amps Meter Problem...

My 65 amp panel gauges finally came in the mail today, so tomorrow I will be completing all tests on the unmodified and modified motors and taking video of the process. Finally!!!

EDIT!!!!!!!!

Turns out, that will not be happening. I got two brand new 75 amp panel meters, and when either on of them is put in line, the motor will not start. When I try to use the 5 amp panel meters I have, they are maxed out by the motor running, even with 5 CFL bulbs lit and running off the output. Or with NO CFL bulbs connected to the output. SO I will have to order yet ANOTHER panel amp meter to do the testing. This will mean ANOTHER week of delay while I wait for a panel meter to come in the mail.

UFO motor failed test - YouTube

Dave

Hello Dave,


I watched the video, but I was waiting for you just to push that lever down...to see the Dynapower by Turionforce at work!!...

...but did not happened...

By the way your Machine Sounds Grreat!...Love that "Roaring Sound"!

Anyways, here is a way you could try to "patch" your problem...
I got very similar Amp Meters...and they have a Resistor joining the Back contacts to close circuit...some lower Amps have just a thick gauge copper wire JUMPER...others have a resistor (now, this is outside the meter, NEVER opening them...
If Yours HAVE A RESISTOR jumping the terminals...You could try a lower value based on Your Batteries Voltage-Amperage...
What Batteries are you using ?...You never told me...I ask you to use two 12V 18 Amps...(if you had them "two)

So, Old Ohm Law could help you there...You have Batteries Amps and Volts values...therefore, Resistance should be R=V/I=12V/18A?...
Then you could try jumping the back terminals with a bit HIGHER Resistor value than the Ohm Equation result (to "play safe" and go above Batt Amperage)...BUT MUST BE a High Watts Resistor!!...because it WILL get HOT.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Top Secret Testings...

I did use two 18 amp hour 12 volt batteries in series for 24 volts.

None of my meters have a resister on the outside, so I am stuck. I didn't want to show any footage of any kind of testing until I clear it with you, but I did want folks to know I am TRYING and not just messing around. I ordered two 30 amp meters already. Don't know when they will get here. I can't use the metal pulley that is on my motor for the test. It has a weird reaction with the leather belt and yanks it all over the place. Besides, it is 8 1/4 inch in circumference. I have a plastic wheel I will use that is exactly 6 inches in circumference, so will make calculations much easier. I have tested both motors with the plastic wheel, so I already know the results, but I am not saying a word until I can video it with all the proper gauges connected and you preview it and approve it.

Dave

I have tested both motors with the plastic wheel, so I already know the results...

Teasing time?...

Could We get a "hint"...?!...
Or they would be kept "Top Secret" til Meters arrival...
Could We get at least a "preview"...a "Teaser Presentation Video"?...

Edit 1: Dave,

In the meantime we wait for the meters...You could run the simple test I requested while back,,,Remember?... to take BOTH Motors to a complete STALL...Stop, and FORGET about putting a Load at Modified Output...
Feeding them with EXACTLY same batteries as above you have mentioned...12 X 2=24 V and 18 Amps...Let them both develop same time to reach full power-speed, then start pressing in Dyno, read Pounds and Voltage consumption at Batteries ONLY...by blocking them with Diodes from Motors load...and of course "Time" to get there...to a Stop...but that will show on Video...
Please Recharge Batteries after each Motor tests...and let them seat for half hour...
As also...Read Batteries Voltage BEFORE and AFTER both tests.
Please set Camera in a fixed place, in order to see the whole thing in just one view (moving camera is not a good idea...and video looses good views)...so that the Dyno Lever deflection is shown also.
I forgot to mention that a scale with a needle could also be adapted to lever (very similar to your Torque Wrench)...to clearly see deflection angle to reach stall...or decrease RPM's. In order to compare both machines "travel" differences at Lever.

Thanks

Regards


Ufopolitics

[gyula]

EDIT!!!!!!!!

Turns out, that will not be happening. I got two brand new 75 amp panel meters, and when either one of them is put in line, the motor will not start. When I try to use the 5 amp panel meters I have, they are maxed out by the motor running, even with 5 CFL bulbs lit and running off the output. Or with NO CFL bulbs connected to the output. SO I will have to order yet ANOTHER panel amp meter to do the testing. This will mean ANOTHER week of delay while I wait for a panel meter to come in the mail.

Hi Dave,

Have you tried the following: just hook up one 75 Amper meter just as when you had the failed motor start but just short circuit the meter with a piece of (heavier) wire to exlude it at startup and when the motor already started and running, just remove the shorting wire from the meter contacts to include the meter in the circuit as it should be included and see how the motor behaves then.
(Also, if you feel like checking the inner resistance of the 75 Amper meters with a simple digital Ohm meter to make sure they are within spec? IF there is no spec available they must have a fraction of an Ohm inner DC resistance, maybe difficult to measure?)
Are these meters moving coil or moving iron meters? just curious...

regards
Gyula

[norman6538]

next step should be Turion replication

I think it is very important to have someone replicate what Turion has done.
I finally read almost all of the material and compared the Alexander motor because
I made one about 8 years ago and still have it. I am a little confused about the
windings and the commutator so will use 2 poles for my first motor hopefully in
a few days.

Next the measurements need to be well done or there will be "measurement wars".
An analog meter should be used because with spiky motors digital meters jump
around too much to hand your hat on. And Battery measurement lends itself to
another set of wars. the Bedini motor folks know all about that.


Thanks to all who have shared. I thoroughly enjoyed the various commutator modifications.

If it performs like the Alexander motor 1:3 then they can be cascaded and self power
a golfcart, bicycle or vehicle. Imagine that.

[Ufopolitics]

I agree 100%

I think it is very important to have someone replicate what Turion has done.
I finally read almost all of the material and compared the Alexander motor because
I made one about 8 years ago and still have it. I am a little confused about the
windings and the commutator so will use 2 poles for my first motor hopefully in
a few days.

Next the measurements need to be well done or there will be "measurement wars".
An analog meter should be used because with spiky motors digital meters jump
around too much to hand your hat on. And Battery measurement lends itself to
another set of wars. the Bedini motor folks know all about that.


Thanks to all who have shared. I thoroughly enjoyed the various commutator modifications.

If it performs like the Alexander motor 1:3 then they can be cascaded and self power
a golfcart, bicycle or vehicle. Imagine that.

Hello Norman, and Welcome!!

Yes, definitively agree with you in a 100%...Turion tests MUST be replicated by MANY guys here...I mean, this Chinese Razor Motor is not an expensive deal at all...as Turion wrote here and also Mathew Jones...this Motors could also be easily found in scooter repair shops or junks...
But Price of a New one is less than 40.00 USD...Plus there is a place here to get the extra commutator and also the brushes also in a post here.

A Motor in order to have enough Torque in Asymmetrical Designs as to drive Electric Cars or Scooters...should be Four Stators, Four Brush Systems.

Regards


Ufopolitics

[norman6538]

magnet polarity, brush/commutator question

in the ufopolitics motor drawings he shows a red magnet and a blue magnet meaning
different polarities but in the Alexander patent the magnet pole at the armature is
the same and in all of the DC permanent magnet motors I have seen the magnet
poles at the armature is the same on both magnets. What is it supposed to be?
I suspect same poles.

Brush/commutator question. The carbon brush is used to transfer the electric path
to the armature and then to the coils. The commutator segments are used to select
which coil gets the electric path and sometimes to reverse that path as in the case
of the old auto brush/commutator generator used before alternators with diodes were used.
The switching caused the AC current to stop the sine wave and flip the wires to maintain DC current.

In the Alexander motor slip rings were used for the generator out
giving AC current.
In the case of the UFO motor generator what is the commutator doing?

My greatest delima is when I ohm out a 3 pole DC motor with no brushes connected
I get the same ohms between each commutator segment. How can the brush
to commutator to coil make any commutation switching to the proper coils?

I have searched the net and found 2 pole explanations with opposite magnetic
poles but no 3 pole explanations with two like magnetic poles near the armature.

This is driving me crazy. Please enlighten me...

Norman

[pmazz850]

poles are not the same...

Norman,

The magnetic poles are not the same in these dc motors.
Hope that helps.
Pmazz

[pmazz850]

UFO,
In the fiberglass stator, does it have to be multi layer? If so I must make a larger core. Its alot of wire to cram on there....
Pmazz.

[prochiro]

Fiberglass Stator

pmazz850 Hi There
As I remember you were doing something like a 2 inch rotor. That is right on the edge of being too small as the stator needs width and height to hold all that wire. What I did was take scrap 24 gage wire and cut it into a lot of small pieces so I could tell how much area so much wire would take. What I found is that when using 24 gage on the fiberglass stator and six layers one would need 5/16 inch clear between fins and 1 inch tall fins,(if you pack it down firm), else 3/8 clear between fins. That is a lot of space taken up on a two inch diameter. I did a three inch diameter. I used model airplane three ply plywood and brushed a coat of epoxy over it to make them hard. My stator is not all that strong of magnetic pull and I think I need more layers or larger wire, probably 20 gage. Here is a few pictures, I took it down so you could see it better.

Pictures by Prochiroone - Photobucket

Dana

[Ufopolitics]

Multilayer

UFO,
In the fiberglass stator, does it have to be multi layer? If so I must make a larger core. Its alot of wire to cram on there....
Pmazz.

Hello Pmazz,

No, it does not have to be multifilar...the one I show on Timeless Machine is single wire.
It is just a stronger field and better performance...but for smaller builds is no need to.
Hey Pmazz, have you done any testing, and videos on the seven poles?
We want to see it running!!...humming...flying around...

Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Welcome Dear Norman...

in the ufopolitics motor drawings he shows a red magnet and a blue magnet meaning
different polarities but in the Alexander patent the magnet pole at the armature is
the same and in all of the DC permanent magnet motors I have seen the magnet
poles at the armature is the same on both magnets. What is it supposed to be?
I suspect same poles.

Brush/commutator question. The carbon brush is used to transfer the electric path
to the armature and then to the coils. The commutator segments are used to select
which coil gets the electric path and sometimes to reverse that path as in the case
of the old auto brush/commutator generator used before alternators with diodes were used.
The switching caused the AC current to stop the sine wave and flip the wires to maintain DC current.

In the Alexander motor slip rings were used for the generator out
giving AC current.
In the case of the UFO motor generator what is the commutator doing?

My greatest delima is when I ohm out a 3 pole DC motor with no brushes connected
I get the same ohms between each commutator segment. How can the brush
to commutator to coil make any commutation switching to the proper coils?

I have searched the net and found 2 pole explanations with opposite magnetic
poles but no 3 pole explanations with two like magnetic poles near the armature.

This is driving me crazy. Please enlighten me...

Norman

Hello Norman and

Now one simple question...Did you watch my Video below?:

ASYMMETRY TO ENLIGHTENMENT - YouTube

If you haven't you should, it will clear must of your doubts...in 3D Graphics...Awesome video...I made it...

Now, the color codes Blue>North and South>Red is old...and there is "almost" always a Stator configuration based on S-N..and I said "almost" because there are some models out there based on either a monopole Stator or other combinations, but basically the highest percentage (98%)..they are all N-S...

Now related to Confusion between Alexander Patent...and also the Dynamo-Motor...I made a Graphic below for you to analyze...


[IMG][/IMG]


Hope this helps you to understand this different concepts.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[pmazz850]

Prochiro,
Thanks for the info and the pics. I will have to make a larger core as I don't seem to have enough room to stack all the wire on the sides going up to the fins. I was able to wind one layer but no room for second layer on the way back.


@UFO,
What I asked was about "layers" not "filiar". I was using two strands to wind but like said above I don't have the room to wind the second layer coming back.
I haven't made any real tests with the seven pole. I have to order another pair of motors to modify. I did just make two end caps that house the brush assy's. that can be rotated the amount between the stator magnets.(size of the gap) also have to shim one end to eliminate a slight vibration with new end caps. I'll post a pic for you later.
Regards.