My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[prochiro]

12 poles

Yes John, those are both active, you lucky devil you. I have not found even one 12 pole. All I have is about eight 22 poles.
Dana

[s e t h]

hi John
unless i'm mistaken ... wind the corresponding north/south coil pairs as if they were a single coil with a single winding direction but you have bent the coil open to make space for the shaft.
also all 'bent' coils are wound in exactly the same manner.
if i'm wrong hopefully i'll get corrected before you spend too much time on it.

good luck and have fun

[JohnStone]

Thanks Prochiro, Seth,
both hints correspond - different views one result. I will wind the motor at weekend - given Ufo does not disagree.
It seems that Chineese make those 22 pole motors. Perhaps 22 is a lucky number there :-) My motors are original Electrolux and made somewhere in a French speaking area.
Question: Did you fix the windings with resin or similar material?
rgds John

[s e t h]

all advice given so far has said not to worry about resin yet.
it makes it nearly impossible to unwind and start over if you find an error.
myself i just wind the coils tight and then slide a piece of stiff transparrent plastic between the coils and the outermost 'T' piece of the arms making sure that centrifugal force cannot easily dislodge the plastic.
between the piece of plastic and the fact the wire would need to stretch or break before it could escape the plastic one is fairly safe in 'testing' mode.
once you're superbly happy with your build then sure resin it up

[wantomake]

update

Hello to All,

Just quick update. I tore into the "generator head" and found it was an alternator type. Which I thought all gas powered generators were PM type genys.

So still trying to find a same size treadmill motor to modify and use as generator with this Ufopolitics mod.

Good to see the success all of you are having with this project.

wantomake

[DadHav]

Spread Sheet

I was wondering John, UFO or anyone smart with numbers: Would it be possible to construct a spread sheet for test purposes? You know what I mean, just plug in your variables and measurements and the formulas in the spread sheet would do the rest. This could apply to torque as well as any other electrical data. Just a thought
John Hav.

[JohnStone]

I was wondering John, UFO or anyone smart with numbers: Would it be possible to construct a spread sheet for test purposes? You know what I mean, just plug in your variables and measurements and the formulas in the spread sheet would do the rest. This could apply to torque as well as any other electrical data. Just a thought
John Hav.

Jes Well. It can easily be done but do we have complete data sets available? We need:

• Input Amp / Input Volt.... for input power
• Torque / rpm ... for mech output power
• Output Amp / Output Amp ... for electrical output power

And we need a complete series of those data sets in order to get an expressive graph. We neeed graphs from several replications in order to compare and optimize and proof. But our coummunity is not there yet - but we will BE THERE!
My strategy will be to mout all meters on one place and get a pic from every data set and transfer the readings later on into a spread sheet. But this weekend I will wind my 12pole baby first! :-) :-)
John

[Ufopolitics]

Great Idea!

I was wondering John, UFO or anyone smart with numbers: Would it be possible to construct a spread sheet for test purposes? You know what I mean, just plug in your variables and measurements and the formulas in the spread sheet would do the rest. This could apply to torque as well as any other electrical data. Just a thought
John Hav.

Hello Dad Hav,

That is a great Idea Dad Hav!
I was just talking to a friend of mine to build it on PHP...or any other Code that allows a simple graph...
It will help not only to make all calculations faster, but it will brake all barriers between Metric and English measurements that could bring confusion...is like a "Common Language"!

Regards Dad Hav

***************************

Now Hello John Stone!

That is a great idea to make ..yes, We will get together all the basic formulas as also all constants and relationship on ALL different Measuring Units and their respective conversions in the "Backstage Codes" of the Software...as We will be printing it here for further modifications and repairs.

Now talking about your "Baby"...
You are going to wind it as per the P-12 right?...Come on! do not be lazy making the simple Star of David!!...The P-12 is a much more robust set...
And the great thing is that you have great Oscillators/Controllers to pulse those Stators as utilize their Radiant back flow through our known Diodes...as also the Radiant back from the Armatures Coils...

I know there, in the Electronic World, you are a Master Sir!...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[JohnStone]

Hi Ufo,
yes I WILL wind the baby this weekend. I hope to have enough wire AWG24. The nect choce would be AWG32. That seems to be not suitable. Am I right Ufo?

And I will buy a PSU
0-300 V , 5 A alternatively
0-120 V, 10 A alternatively
0-60 V, 20 A
with integrated meters. It will be necessary i.e. for having strong and short HV pulses.
Am tired 1:00 am now

BTW: Spredsheets can calculate and display very nice graphs of all sorts.

rgds John

[Ufopolitics]

Hello Dear John Stone

Hi Ufo,
yes I WILL wind the baby this weekend. I hope to have enough wire AWG24. The nect choce would be AWG32. That seems to be not suitable. Am I right Ufo?

And I will buy a PSU
0-300 V , 5 A alternatively
0-120 V, 10 A alternatively
0-60 V, 20 A
with integrated meters. It will be necessary i.e. for having strong and short HV pulses.
Am tired 1:00 am now

BTW: Spredsheets can calculate and display very nice graphs of all sorts.

rgds John

Hello John,

Yes 32 awg is TOO fine for that Machine...it should be from 24 to even 18 awg...

Regards


Ufopolitics

[interdesign21]

Hello everybody
UFO:
As the cacharreo forum is a bit slow & poorly populated at the moment, I´ll post here. If this upsets you, say so and I´ll quit. (I´m aware that a slow-witted pupil is an additional load for a busy teacher).
@ Turion, Dadhav, J. Stone, Netica & the rest:
My possibilities of doing an advanced work like yours, are very limited by economic reasons, therefore if my posts here cause a delay in your work, I apologize.
I´ll continue with low power machines until I get better options.

I´m now working with my 2nd machine, made with two small DC from a printer.
I plan to assemble it to the first as a dedicated generator. Although I know this machines are motor-generators, I wonder if there is a better way to wind it as to enhance the generator side.
The first thing I made is to assemble the two armature & stator bodies plus one from the prior one, as to elongate its length, so, more than double the straight portion of wire in front of mags (as Netica). Now diam 17,6mm x phi squared=46,07mm new length.
The armature is pentagonal so,is the dual-penta the best way to wind it ?
The original had 5 coils, 214 turns each, 34 AWG (0.16mm)
Should I wind it with same wire ?, as the armature is now longer, it may be winded with the same amount of 34 wire as the original, OR have I to use a wider one ? (Got a lot of SWG 28 = 0.37mm) OR try bifilar ?
I also remember you mentioned a condenser in each coil to get a forced resonance, I´ve got place to fit them between commutator and top of coils if you say so.

Kind regards
Alvaro

[nico8k]

Hola Alvaro
I like what you're building! I have a lot of this motors, so how did you joined the armatures? You taken out the shaft of the small armature (in the pic the one in the middle) and put inside the shafts of the other two? If so, how did you taken out the shaft? because it seem to be very tight! I do not want to break it

And by the way... I guess nobody here be upset you being posting here!

Un abrazo!
Nico

[interdesign21]

Hola Alvaro
I like what you're building! I have a lot of this motors, so how did you joined the armatures? You taken out the shaft of the small armature (in the pic the one in the middle) and put inside the shafts of the other two? If so, how did you taken out the shaft? because it seem to be very tight! I do not want to break it

And by the way... I guess nobody here be upset you being posting here!

Un abrazo!
Nico

Hola Nico
Yes I took out the shaft. I´ll show my system in a pic.
un abrazo
Alvaro

[interdesign21]

Nico
here you are, made the pic asap
regards
Alvaro
forgot to say: there is a tiny bronze sleeve after and before commutator. peel it,remove it before removing shaft. I insert a plier between it & rotor, fix plier and hammer shaft.

[Ufopolitics]

Hello everybody
UFO:
As the cacharreo forum is a bit slow & poorly populated at the moment, I´ll post here. If this upsets you, say so and I´ll quit. (I´m aware that a slow-witted pupil is an additional load for a busy teacher).
@ Turion, Dadhav, J. Stone, Netica & the rest:
My possibilities of doing an advanced work like yours, are very limited by economic reasons, therefore if my posts here cause a delay in your work, I apologize.
I´ll continue with low power machines until I get better options.

I´m now working with my 2nd machine, made with two small DC from a printer.
I plan to assemble it to the first as a dedicated generator. Although I know this machines are motor-generators, I wonder if there is a better way to wind it as to enhance the generator side.
The first thing I made is to assemble the two armature & stator bodies plus one from the prior one, as to elongate its length, so, more than double the straight portion of wire in front of mags (as Netica). Now diam 17,6mm x phi squared=46,07mm new length.
The armature is pentagonal so,is the dual-penta the best way to wind it ?
The original had 5 coils, 214 turns each, 34 AWG (0.16mm)
Should I wind it with same wire ?, as the armature is now longer, it may be winded with the same amount of 34 wire as the original, OR have I to use a wider one ? (Got a lot of SWG 28 = 0.37mm) OR try bifilar ?
I also remember you mentioned a condenser in each coil to get a forced resonance, I´ve got place to fit them between commutator and top of coils if you say so.

Kind regards
Alvaro

Hola Alvaro,

I was "Cacharreando" since this site is still collapsing, and I could not log in to answer before...sorry

@Nico: Entra al foro de Cacharreo en Español at:
Cacharreo • Ver foro - Energia Libre - Free Energy

Back at Interdesign:It will NEVER upset Me any material displayed here related to Replications...AT ALL!!
So be very Welcome!

Now:

I´m now working with my 2nd machine, made with two small DC from a printer.
I plan to assemble it to the first as a dedicated generator. Although I know this machines are motor-generators, I wonder if there is a better way to wind it as to enhance the generator side.
The first thing I made is to assemble the two armature & stator bodies plus one from the prior one, as to elongate its length, so, more than double the straight portion of wire in front of mags (as Netica). Now diam 17,6mm x phi squared=46,07mm new length.
The armature is pentagonal so,is the dual-penta the best way to wind it ?

1-To Enhance the Generator side use the Dual Pentagons...use the higher awg possible...30 if you could or even 26...(28 IS JUST PERFECTO!!) and try as much wire as you could turn there as long as ALL are the same number of turns...
Remember that the Dual Penta is a very Asymmetric Core distributed design...all Souths Coils are wound in just ONE POLE...as all Norths are wound comprehending TWO POLES...so you MUST compensate the "Magnetic Weights" on both Coils by using LENGTH of Wire and NOT TURNS!!
2- Is great you have increased the length of the armature core AWESOME!!!...I see you have learned the lesson very well!!...
You are going to get a heck of a Generator there...I am sure of it!!

NOW for the Motor to turn that Generator you will need a strong Machine!!
If You have already wound the other motor with the Radio Shack Five Pole Design...is perfect...BUT you should try to add finer wire there...and less turns to balance Amps draw...but still have good torque...

The Five Poles is a faster Motor than the Dual Penta...and have great torque...so it will work fine.

I also remember you mentioned a condenser in each coil to get a forced resonance, I´ve got place to fit them between commutator and top of coils if you say so.

Yes, But...be careful where and how you install the Capacitors there...just because they create heavy arcing...and its arc will jump to the nearest open/bare wire there....creating a very BAD Short Circuit...and your machine could easily burn...
So I recommend that you try first without Caps on...and if you do install them at any point later...make sure you cover all open contacts with a good insulation resin (epoxy high temperature). Now this...will make your set up very hard to rewind or repair later on...that is why am saying this...

The other thing I have noticed those Motors have the resistors installed below commutator (the disc below)...try with them on...and see what results you get (they are very high resistance value...like Mega Ohms, actually they are called "Varistors"...measure them to make sure)...
This resistors are great at just one side of your machine...the side that you will add the jumper in your Generator to ADD both gates at the other side.


Regards


Ufopolitics