My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[DadHav]

Dad Hav,



Oh, Please Dad Hav...don't You play "The Victim Role" here...I know that "Game" very well Sir!

Like I said before on the presentation of my Brush Bearing Concept, this idea was meant for improvement.

But I understand "every time" an idea is presented, automatically the "Parties" that are on the "Conservative Side" related to Motors and Generators or on the whole Picture....JUMP...Jump to Criticize...and that happens so often...since the beginning of My First Thread here...that I am "Starting to get used to"...

I particularly LOVE, CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM...BUT...If You bring a Criticism...that BE A NEGATIVE ONE...Bring along the SOLUTION!!! ..that would be very nice if everyone would act in their life like that every time...don't you think?...

Of course We all be a better "Race"...and have a better World.

There are REASONS why I designed this set up of brush type:

1-My Machines develop three or Four or MORE Speed than ANY Regular Original Symmetric of the same capacity.

That is an "Advantage"...However, since we are dealing here with "Original Symmetric Machines" conversions, that NEVER dream of reaching such High Speed and Torque in the same Fashion and Intensity"...It could lead into accidents like Netica had, when an Element flew and hit His Eye...it could have been worst...thanks God He is fine by now...
And there were NO SIGNS of heating in those elements (based on the super High Definition Picture Netica provided.)
And according to the way Netica BUILDS You ALL have seen...So WELL, it is very ODD that a bad or loose construct could have happened there.
That it could have been a Bad factory built commutator?...could be that IT Was "Not Rated for UFO's Speeds"...
...And Netica was NOT Accelerating "Full Blast" as He said...


2- My Machines require DOUBLE the amount of Brushes of a Symmetrical Type

That is understood by all here...So, My concept is FOR MY MACHINES...However, IF ANYONE wants to apply it to their other builds...Be Very Welcome...it is FOR FREE.


You spoke of all kind of possibilities of "Failure" of My Design...But none to "fix" the criticized issues...
You first mentioned arc in the ball bearings, bad electrical transmission...and now more "bad things"...not good area of contact...etc,etc...

Dad Hav, You ARE NOT a Full Time Replicator of My Design here!!...And as a matter of fact all you did was ONE cheap Radio Shack Model,...and all it was to criticize it in your video back and forth...
I have asked You to make other tests with Two Machines...A LONG TIME BACK...but you had "excuses" of being busy...But obviously "Not Busy" to criticize Uh?!
IF You would be an active Member replicating My work here...I would be understanding "Your Concerns"...BUT YOU ARE NOT!

All The Expertise You could bring along here an tell Us about ...Doesn't Do ANY Good...IF You are not HELPING building/replicating ABSOLUTELY NADA for this Thread.



Ufopolitics

Sorry UFO, but If I had a bench full of builds of your motor it wouldn't make my opinion of the roller brush any different. I really am sorry, I know how the high speed is a problem but I just feel this wouldn't be the way to handle it. If I had any kind of solution for what I consider it's short comings I would have gladly offered it. It was your idea for us do do the little motor and post results and that's just what I did. As soon as someone posts a test that indisputably proves your claims I will reference my video as being obsolete and link them to the new video. That's the main reason I hang around. I don't want this project to fail. I try to offer advice that will help. I think I'm being fair even if what I say might hit a nerve. I have already told viewers to check your forum for updated tests. So?
I don't need to make excuses. I've sent invitations to my private videos to my friends who know I'm busy with my own projects. Some of the results where surprisingly good, but since it is brushless and typical of what I've been doing for years I knew it didn't belong here.
I have an idea. No one is more capable of making the video I'm talking about than you. I would be very happy to host your video and call peoples attention to it as well as apologize for ever having any doubts.
I'm trying not to be disrespectful and I'm trying not to say anything insulting and I would rather not let this conversation go on any further wasting everyones time. Any time you care to drop it is fine with me.
J

[machinealive]

Hello ufo and everyone,

Still not home but had to post. Ufo, in terms of your new roller contact, it does seem like a really good idea, the only problem I can see would be in what material you would use over roller. I think the carbon idea would be best as you would need something that was slightly softer then the copper commutator element or you would be replacing your commutators everytime you replace your copper on the roller. Copper roller covers, with copper commutator elements would wear equally.

I have been thinking about induction and or spark gaps like you mentioned for the big 3 pole build, the magnetic/inductive commutator seems like a big jump in tech, very interesting.

I bet dadhav has a really nice, but secretive, build underway, and is going to surprise you when he's done.

[Ufopolitics]

Hello Machine

Hello ufo and everyone,

Still not home but had to post. Ufo, in terms of your new roller contact, it does seem like a really good idea, the only problem I can see would be in what material you would use over roller. I think the carbon idea would be best as you would need something that was slightly softer then the copper commutator element or you would be replacing your commutators everytime you replace your copper on the roller. Copper roller covers, with copper commutator elements would wear equally.

I have been thinking about induction and or spark gaps like you mentioned for the big 3 pole build, the magnetic/inductive commutator seems like a big jump in tech, very interesting.

I bet dadhav has a really nice, but secretive, build underway, and is going to surprise you when he's done.

Hello Machine,

Yes, your point is right related to copper to copper...however, think both elements will be rolling...not static...

We have metal friction galore in our vehicles engines...some are made of alloys...some aren't... some are being oil pumped during performance..some aren't.
Gears wear out also after a while...and they are metal to metal...

Also remember most of cheaper motors are based on Bushings made out of metal alloys but mainly brass and copper, while shaft is steel...and they last a lot...

But I agree that carbon fiber or something softer and conductive will work better...

The point here is that both elements will be rotating...not static...


Thanks and regards


Ufopolitics

[DadHav]

Hello All,

Like I mentioned before, my concept of Brush Bearing was not fully developed...I wrote "It could use some Improvement" As I was not satisfied either with it...

I basically displayed that design, for anyone who want to try it out...in their builds.

We are all grown up here and could decide for yourselves if want or not to build something...based on a Concept.

As I have been "The Spot" of many "Critics" here on this Forum...for a long time by now...I understand that every time there is a new idea, or concept...This "Conservative Tea Party"...Jumps all over..."They just can not "control" their fingers...as their Impulsive Criticism...

But I explained before why I wanted to improve the Ancient and Obsolete Brush Systems on My Machines.

1- My Machines develops serious Speed and Torque that NOW are equally and Directly Proportional...NOT as Symmetric Systems. This is an "Advantage"...but it could bring trouble IF we are dealing with the short circuit slow and torque-less machines to convert them into my designs...

2- My Machines requires Double the amount of Brushes one of the Original Old Dinosaurs do...That is A Main reason I want this design...to void that much friction ...

So, here is Another Improvement this concept could be Enhanced with...since, somehow, I agree to a certain extent with the "Tea Party Critics"...

[IMG][/IMG]


What I have incorporated is a Brush, but riding on the Outer Copper Ring of Bearing, just like a Continuous Slip Ring we see on Brush Generators.
The Bearing slides on Commutator elements tough ride , being shock absorbed by the action of the push spring on Arm...this way copper ring acts like a middle element between Commutator and Brush.

The Angles of Pressure from Brush to Commutator are no longer at 90 degrees creating great friction, drag and heat.


[IMG][/IMG]


Again, People... this is "just a Concept"...to be developed further more...


Regards


Ufopolitics

Have you ever thought of a solid state commutator? Do you think it would be way to impractical to substitute the brushes with hall effect transducers and driver FET's and use magnets as the com pieces? See there's a suggestion instead of being negative.
Maybe not to practical for anything real large right. Bet I could do it mini
Oh wait, you can't get anything going back the other way and what about the gen side right?
never mind

[DadHav]

Hello ufo and everyone,

Still not home but had to post. Ufo, in terms of your new roller contact, it does seem like a really good idea, the only problem I can see would be in what material you would use over roller. I think the carbon idea would be best as you would need something that was slightly softer then the copper commutator element or you would be replacing your commutators everytime you replace your copper on the roller. Copper roller covers, with copper commutator elements would wear equally.

I have been thinking about induction and or spark gaps like you mentioned for the big 3 pole build, the magnetic/inductive commutator seems like a big jump in tech, very interesting.

I bet dadhav has a really nice, but secretive, build underway, and is going to surprise you when he's done.

Do you check your messages

[IndianaBoys]

Ufopolitics,

YouTube user diveflyfish posted this video that had a question at the end of the video description area that may lend to thinking outside the box:

Rotating Mag Fields In Plasma N/S vs S/S
Rotating Mag Fields In Plasma N/S vs S/S - YouTube

...could a spark gap plasma be used instead of a Brush?

IndianaBoys

[Ufopolitics]

Hello Indiana Boys

Ufopolitics,

YouTube user diveflyfish posted this video that had a question at the end of the video description area that may lend to thinking outside the box:

Rotating Mag Fields In Plasma N/S vs S/S
Rotating Mag Fields In Plasma N/S vs S/S - YouTube

...could a spark gap plasma be used instead of a Brush?

IndianaBoys

Hello Indiana Boys,

Nice video!...Nice experiment there!

Yes, the Plasma Arc could be used as a Brush...However it will work on High Frequency Motors...completely different deal of what we are going on here...

But I can tell no more...


Remember we have signed an NDA Form...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Anoop]

Great Work!

Hi Ufo and everybody,

I've been following this amazing thread from the beginning (plus the previous two threads). Have progressed through the stages of building a variety of mosfet pulsing circuits (thanks to UFO plus John Stone), and also adapted some of my Bedini coils to experiment with UFO's coil pulsing circuits, have seen the "purple light" and also lit a few CFL's in the process! Now I am still at the "toy" motor stage, getting accustomed to cutting casings and winding armatures. Thanks to everyone for continously posting suggestions for the others.

Ufo, I've been compiling for myself a condensed/edited version of this motors thread, and so far have finished condensing upto page 32. I intend to continue doing this to around page 50+ at this stage. Beyond that the thread gets into large motors and I will tackle that later as I have yet to understand all that before I can even attempt to decide what is relevant. This first stage alone is going to run up to about 200+ pdf pages.
With your permission, shall I upoad this pdf on this forum? Anyone interested could assist by editing/condensing this further and I could send them my original editable MS WORD file for this purpose. It will take a couple more revisions I'm sure, to condense this down properly.

Seperate from this, I have a couple of questions.
UFO, firstly earlier on you had mentioned that the motor conversions we are doing could be compared to modifying a cheap car into a Mercedes, and therefore one could not expect the full performance of a real mercedes. So if you were to design a new motor from scratch (or probably you have already done so), you are looking at some radically different design geometry? (as also suggested by Dr. Peter Lindemann in his motors video?)

Secondly, if we want a generator only, without the motor, could we go the "solid state" route? For example if we had a fixed rotor and fixed stator all made from a combination of individual coils, and if each coil (or combination of coils) were pulsed in a predetermined sequence to simulate rotation without there actually being any physical rotation. The output then could be taken from the relevant different combination of coils, in a suitable sequence.
(Also if we are thinking in terms of "solid-state", I suppose we could disregard the rotary/circular model concept altogether, just like the various other "solid-state" generator ideas that are floating around.)
Not trying to go off topic here, but just fishing for hints on where all this could ultimately lead.

thanks for your untiring efforts and also for taking the trouble to respond to every posting!

Anoop

[s e t h]

Ufopolitics 101

testing, as i did, that a coil passing a magnet while the coils field was collapsing would completly cancel the ability of the magnet to induce a current in the coil leads one to recognise the potential of the collapsing field.
the effect must be as strong as that of recognised induction itself in order to cancel it.
recognising the potential of a collapsing field in a coil passing a magnet can lead one to understand that a collaping field effectively reverses the magnetic pole created by the current that built the field.

1xspeeding coil+1xpassing magnet=Zxcurrent
and
1xspeeding coil+1xpassing magnet+1xcollapsing field=0 (my dual asymmetrical design test)
therefor
1xspeeding coil+1xpassing magnet=-1xcollapsing field
therefor
Zxcurrent=-1xcollasping field
therefor
Zxcurrent/-1=1xcollasping field
or
1xcollasping field= -Zxcurrent

now if Zxcurrent+coil=N-pole then -Zxcurrent+coil=S-pole
therefor
1xcollapsing field=-Zxcurrent with the opposite pole of the initial current used to create the field.
therefor Ufopolitics claims are starting to look like simple mathamatical facts to me.

a properly designed machine using electromagnets for both the armature and stator and running on pulsed DC should be quite capable of being 'foreward powered' by both the current pulses and the DUAL opposing forces created by the collapse of BOTH armature and stator fields created by the pulses

[Ufopolitics]

Oh Anoop I feel so great!!

Hi Ufo and everybody,

I've been following this amazing thread from the beginning (plus the previous two threads). Have progressed through the stages of building a variety of mosfet pulsing circuits (thanks to UFO plus John Stone), and also adapted some of my Bedini coils to experiment with UFO's coil pulsing circuits, have seen the "purple light" and also lit a few CFL's in the process! Now I am still at the "toy" motor stage, getting accustomed to cutting casings and winding armatures. Thanks to everyone for continuously posting suggestions for the others.

Hello My Dear Anoop!!

Oh I am so glad you have gone so far!!...I still remember when you've said that Oscillators was something "out of your complete reach"...and NOW it is so rewarding to read you are already building and pulsing your own circuits!!!

Ufo, I've been compiling for myself a condensed/edited version of this motors thread, and so far have finished condensing upto page 32. I intend to continue doing this to around page 50+ at this stage. Beyond that the thread gets into large motors and I will tackle that later as I have yet to understand all that before I can even attempt to decide what is relevant. This first stage alone is going to run up to about 200+ pdf pages.
With your permission, shall I upload this pdf on this forum? Anyone interested could assist by editing/condensing this further and I could send them my original editable MS WORD file for this purpose. It will take a couple more revisions I'm sure, to condense this down properly.

WOW!...So besides working on your circuits and making all Lab Testings...You also have become some sort of "UFO's Editor Literate"??!!!...Amazing!!

Now, related to making a pdf and showing it here to ALL...That is something...I really have to "consult" with My NDA (Non Disclosure Agreement) Partners...otherwise... I could get and be in serious trouble...So...let me have a "serious talk" with Dad Hav, Turion, and Indiana Boys related to the "Publishing" of all this Material...

Joke My Dear...OF COURSE YOU COULD DO THAT!!

It will be wonderful for all new Members and even not Members that read me here...To start building their own circuits-models and then playing with their Toys...and making great tests like you have gotten so far, because of "Having it All" in ONE pdf Format Condensed Literature!!!

Pssss don't tell anyone...But We could also "sell it"...and make a huge "profit$$" ...

Separate from this, I have a couple of questions.
UFO, firstly earlier on you had mentioned that the motor conversions we are doing could be compared to modifying a cheap car into a Mercedes, and therefore one could not expect the full performance of a real Mercedes. So if you were to design a new motor from scratch (or probably you have already done so), you are looking at some radically different design geometry? (as also suggested by Dr. Peter Lindemann in his motors video?)

Yes Dear, that is correct, the Symmetric Armatures as also their wound Stators are very limited when it comes to wind them in Asymmetric Modes...They are designed to minimal amounts of wires...While wasting tons of unnecessary steel that takes enormous amounts of space and deliver so much weight...This fact brings along not allowing to combine and exchange the many different possibilities of several coils within just one embodiment of either Armature or Stator.
A simple example of what I am relating to...You could see it in the Fiberglass Stator Architecture...That structure We could also made out of Steel Lamination...creating BOTH Stronger Fields (Radiant and Hot) at large...
But here again, we will have to Cut the Steel Lamination of different shapes that do not look alike the shapes we are all playing with so far...
The best way to do this is would be your local Water-jet Shop...a good one, meaning Great Equipment, that will take your CAD to Scale Designs (They MUST make samples first for you to check them, before ordering several pieces)...and you buy the Steel Sheets (some even supply the metal) and have them cut it for you...then you stack them and clean them and secure them...and epoxy them...lot of work!...but worthy.
There is a whole new world into this technology my Dear friend...

Secondly, if we want a generator only, without the motor, could we go the "solid state" route? For example if we had a fixed rotor and fixed stator all made from a combination of individual coils, and if each coil (or combination of coils) were pulsed in a predetermined sequence to simulate rotation without there actually being any physical rotation. The output then could be taken from the relevant different combination of coils, in a suitable sequence.
(Also if we are thinking in terms of "solid-state", I suppose we could disregard the rotary/circular model concept altogether, just like the various other "solid-state" generator ideas that are floating around.)
Not trying to go off topic here, but just fishing for hints on where all this could ultimately lead.

Unfortunately Dear, that ancient law that Faraday discovered many years ago...still prevails...as the strongest way to Induce Electrical flow...and that is moving Conductors related to magnetic fields...The Dynamics of Generation of Currents...That is because Electric Flow IS Dynamic...NOT Static...as also are the Magnetic Fields...
Now, when really comes the success...is when we "Fuse" both Worlds...Dynamics with Solid State...then we are rolling...

We could do just Solid State Coils/Circuits...like I have done before...but then we will be wasting those magnetic fields of such high intensity...to create just some output...
The regeneration that occurs from Coils that are moving Physically, In- and Away...to be replaced "in line" for subsequent other Coils...in an Infinite Spiral Array...is still our main source of Energy Collection...as also contributes to "Transport" Us anywhere we desire to move to...

thanks for your untiring efforts and also for taking the trouble to respond to every posting!

Anoop

Many Regards and Light to You my Dear Friend!!





Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Great Deductions and Logic, Seth!

testing, as i did, that a coil passing a magnet while the coils field was collapsing would completly cancel the ability of the magnet to induce a current in the coil leads one to recognise the potential of the collapsing field.
the effect must be as strong as that of recognised induction itself in order to cancel it.
recognising the potential of a collapsing field in a coil passing a magnet can lead one to understand that a collaping field effectively reverses the magnetic pole created by the current that built the field.

1xspeeding coil+1xpassing magnet=Zxcurrent
and
1xspeeding coil+1xpassing magnet+1xcollapsing field=0 (my dual asymmetrical design test)
therefor
1xspeeding coil+1xpassing magnet=-1xcollapsing field
therefor
Zxcurrent=-1xcollasping field
therefor
Zxcurrent/-1=1xcollasping field
or
1xcollasping field= -Zxcurrent

now if Zxcurrent+coil=N-pole then -Zxcurrent+coil=S-pole
therefor
1xcollapsing field=-Zxcurrent with the opposite pole of the initial current used to create the field.
therefor Ufopolitics claims are starting to look like simple mathamatical facts to me.

a properly designed machine using electromagnets for both the armature and stator and running on pulsed DC should be quite capable of being 'foreward powered' by both the current pulses and the DUAL opposing forces created by the collapse of BOTH armature and stator fields created by the pulses

Hello Dear Seth,


BINGO!!
You've GOT IT!!...I am very glad you have it!!

Wow, TWO GREAT POSTS!...One after the other!...Anoop and Yours!...what a great Saturday Breakfast!!

Yes indeed Dear Seth, building dedicated Machines where all we use are Electromagnetic Coils...and pulse them all in a predetermined Sequenced fashion...will definitively take Us all, where we have been trying to get for over One Hundred and Thirty Two years...

I am glad you have understood the Great Force and Power behind a Collapsing Coil, as also to understand that Indeed Coil Reverses it's Magnetic Polarity with a strength "very" Superior to the force that originate it...EXCELLENT!!

I would like you to try next My Asymmetric Fiberglass Stator and combine them with your armatures...and pulse them all...and get "back" their collapse through Diodes...with and without load...Then You will realize and "solidify" Your great conclusions stated here.

I will be making a nice Video...where I will show you...more convincing results about the same principle...it is a whole Universe!


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Michael John Nunnerley]

3 pole + caps!

Hola UFO

I have two very nice 3 pole motors that have plenty of room on the rotor to put caps in parallel, what is the minimum capacitance and voltage I can get away with, as uf ac caps start getting big in the micro range!!!!

thanks in advance

Mike

P.S. this will be driving a nice generator converted from a jvc capstan drive, it produces 4v just spining it in my fingers and near 40v with another motor attached. I have already designed a control circuit for it

[Ufopolitics]

Hello Michael John Nunnerley

Hola UFO

I have two very nice 3 pole motors that have plenty of room on the rotor to put caps in parallel, what is the minimum capacitance and voltage I can get away with, as uf ac caps start getting big in the micro range!!!!

thanks in advance

Mike

P.S. this will be driving a nice generator converted from a jvc capstan drive, it produces 4v just spining it in my fingers and near 40v with another motor attached. I have already designed a control circuit for it

Hola Michael,

IMPORTANT EDIT: I forgot Mike, (You just caught me by surprise with this question, and I am at Lab into something else...) You MUST NOT leave any open, bare contacts there, basically near the Caps terminals, or the Commutator elements, Arcing is High.
As you could also try lower Cap values as 4 to 6 uF...If 10uF is too much, since you are working on small models...

I would say in the range of 10 uF, However rated for a much higher Voltage than you are Feeding with....I have used 240V on a 36V Feed...so you have an idea.

Now, the problem here Michael, is that from start you must have a load connected to output, so it could drain the Caps as they reach the output gates...If You don't...it may overheat or even burn crispy your Coils when the Input Cycle arrives...

The resistance on Coil, must be calculated there also, according to your feed and Caps in order to reach a good but not over or under-saturated LC resonance...That's also important to have a nice balance...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[machinealive]

5 pole update

Hello ufo and everyone,

I got home late last night and went right out to the workshop, ended up spending 4 hours adding washers, removing washers, shaving here, adjusting there.

So I first tried with 12 v, and all I got was some serious sparks at comm. Took it all apart, cleaned the comms, put it back together. I got much less sparks, but no rotation.

Tried 24 volts, some sparking at comms, no rotation of rotor. getting bummed out and burnt out, beginning to question myself, and should I call my Guru. Then my diode melted off my switch. FFFuucccc

OK, Should I try 36 volts, WTF, yes. So, I hook up 36 volts rethink input, reverse input, neon light sounds like it is gonna burst,...and ... and...WE GET ROTATION, IT'S ALIIIIVVVVVE, but barley.

I was so excited I shut it off, and now I have to calm down and relax.

UFO I will make a vid tonight and post tonight or tomorrow.

[nico8k]

123D Apps

Hello everyone!

Alvaro, Seth and Ufo...
Thanks all for your help and tips!

These days I was disassembling the motors (electronic washing machine) I've bought and looking at how to modify to asymmetrical. I bought two pairs of identical motors, one pair have 15 poles and the other have 18 poles but this ones at first glance seems to not work because the rotor is "rotated along", I don't know if this type can be used.
Later I will post some pics to show you and ask some questions. All motors have wound stators so now I'm reading previous posts to understand how to modify, pulse or feed it.
When I saw the excellent work that Machinealive is making with his wood stator I remembered a software that I found some time ago that I think will help us. When I was about to post to share with you I saw the Ufo reply to Anoop...

Yes Dear, that is correct, the Symmetric Armatures as also their wound Stators are very limited when it comes to wind them in Asymmetric Modes...They are designed to minimal amounts of wires...While wasting tons of unnecessary steel that takes enormous amounts of space and deliver so much weight...This fact brings along not allowing to combine and exchange the many different possibilities of several coils within just one embodiment of either Armature or Stator.
A simple example of what I am relating to...You could see it in the Fiberglass Stator Architecture...That structure We could also made out of Steel Lamination...creating BOTH Stronger Fields (Radiant and Hot) at large...
But here again, we will have to Cut the Steel Lamination of different shapes that do not look alike the shapes we are all playing with so far...
The best way to do this is would be your local Water-jet Shop...a good one, meaning Great Equipment, that will take your CAD to Scale Designs (They MUST make samples first for you to check them, before ordering several pieces)...and you buy the Steel Sheets (some even supply the metal) and have them cut it for you...then you stack them and clean them and secure them...and epoxy them...lot of work!...but worthy.
There is a whole new world into this technology my Dear friend...

... so I think we all are making a collaborative mental network in perfect synchronization!

Look at Autodesk 123D - Free 3D Modeling Software, 3D Models, DIY Projects, Personal Fabrication Tools from Autodesk.
They are a set of incredibly easy to use free apps to make objects in 3D.
Take a look at "123D" and "123D Make" apps, these two will help us to "convert" 3D complex objects into 2D laminates. Also we can create free accounts to share our models and even have a service to order the laser cutting!

I hope I have been helpful with someone to make things easier and faster

Nico