My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[interdesign21]

I wanted to add an additional bit of info about this test. I have mentioned that when the generator was putting out 54 volts that it was not in any electrical way connected to the motor machine, just by shaft. Here is something that many are still not putting together in there heads, I still had enough voltage from an additional source, the motor machine, to charge plenty of batteries on the auto rotational charging system without touching the 54 volts from generator..
But you guys don't have to worry, cuzzzzzz this is just a toy. One could not possibly scale this system up.
Dana

hello prochiro,
I´m also working with printer motors at the moment
are you charging batteries direct from motor output with diodes, or through a charger ?
may you post a diagram of your setup please ?
Have any of you all made an attempt to loop the toys and get a self runner ?
If yes may you post such a diagram ?
cheers
Alvaro

[JohnStone]

Hi Ufo,
still pondering on my motor because I want to understand it fully.
I still not understood at what time/angle a winding pair should be fired exactly. I can not shift the brushes but I have 24 commutator segments available for 12 poles. I hope I can find a wiring shema being near to optimum.
Please beare with me and look at my drawings representing my actual vacuum motor (my first trial with Google Sketchup ).

EDIT: Sorry! Error on rotor north/south. Blue should be top and red bottom

With one segment connected only it fires 27 degree before TDC (center north magnet vs. center coil pair approaching). The north pole of the rotor (left)will partly support and partly oppose rotating - 2 times 27 degree of action get lost for torque


and stops firing 27 degeree after TDC

At what angle should the respective coil start firing?
It will fire for 54 degree and I can add another 15 degree after if I connect the next segment. Where to adjust the sweep angle of 69 degree?

BTW:
1. Slip bearings removed and it runs on ball bearings fine now!
2. Don't serve the skeptics. The scinteific way is to do experiments first despite possible doubts and offer proofs or disproves later on when time has come. Our suffering globe justifies any effort.
rgds JohnS

[ewizard]

12 volt Car radiator fan motors

Hi UFOPolitics, I've still got my drill motors torn apart on a bench but I somewhat dropped out of this message thread as it was getting a bit over my head and time I have. But I have found something interesting recently that I'd like your thoughts on and it may be of interest here. First I'll mention this motor I'm talking about is made by Siemens - a huge global company with over 99 Billion dollars in Revenue (per their stock market data). I'm sure they have some top engineers. I'm also certain most car makers know what a mission critical part an electric radiator fan is and also how extreme the conditions it operates in. So I'm thinking they have designed a high efficiency motor for that purpose. I know some of them run after the car is turned off and no one wants to come back to a car with a dead battery.
I've set up a forum for some people that became interested in a claimed device that runs a generator head (5000 watt) from a car fan motor with belts, pulleys and a gearbox and converter. It's claim is to provide power to a house while keeping itself running and the battery charged - i.e. a looped system apparently from what I understand. We are trying to figure out how this is possible. In seeing a picture of one fan motor disassembled (below) I saw it had 4 brushes on the commutator. I'm not sure this is even a Siemens motor but I thought about your assymetry info here and wondered if possibly someone at Siemens or other car fan makers might be using this in their motor designs. A large company like that would not want to claim any 'overunity' or anything like that I'm sure but they would just claim a very efficient design for car makers. Probably a pipe dream on all this but I'm at a loss as to how this device we are studying can produce so much power.
So from the picture below do you see anything unusual? I have a rather big gap in knowledge in the motor field (motor dummy)
I think these may be a good motor to check out here with how much torque these seem to have also. The one drawback may be the commonly short shaft they have. However if the have 4 sets of brushes on one end maybe having a shaft come out the other end will not be needed?

[prochiro]

hello prochiro,
I´m also working with printer motors at the moment
are you charging batteries direct from motor output with diodes, or through a charger ?
may you post a diagram of your setup please ?
Have any of you all made an attempt to loop the toys and get a self runner ?
If yes may you post such a diagram ?
cheers
Alvaro

Alcaro
The choice of battery charging is yours. There are so many ways and each works better or worse for each person and setup. I just used diodes this time but may use caps and PWM signals to pulse charge, maybe. My setup is voltage into PWM then into motor machine as per UFO then Shaft to generator and power out to do whatever you want with it.
There are so many self runner problems such as it is all tied up in itself. Little or no extra power left for anything. What good is it. Definition of self runner is unclear to many. Some think that it must just run itself and for all time. What is the setup above as it charges and swaps batteries with energy to burn. What is UFO's system if it does the same. Are they self runners,or more than that, or what? I do not know and do not care as I am so tired of hearing people talk about something that has ten difinitions and does not help mankind, it just runs itself. I think I have raised above that point where difinitions matter. What matters is do we break this slavery and put lights on where there are none, without shutting down our planet first. Just keep working on your systems and one day you will look back and see a system which is giving you all the power you need. If you look your system over again, you will see that it runs itself as well.
Dana

[prochiro]

John

Hi Ufo,
still pondering on my motor because I want to understand it fully.
I still not understood at what time/angle a winding pair should be fired exactly. I can not shift the brushes but I have 24 commutator segments available for 12 poles. I hope I can find a wiring shema being near to optimum.
Please beare with me and look at my drawings representing my actual vacuum motor (my first trial with Google Sketchup ).
With one segment connected only it fires 27 degree before TDC (center north magnet vs. center coil pair approaching)


and stops firing 27 degeree after TDC

At what angle should the respective coil start firing?
It will fire for 54 degree and I can add another 15 degree after if I connect the next segment. Where to adjust the sweep angle of 69 degree?

BTW:
1. Slip bearings removed and it runs on ball bearings fine now!
2. Don't serve the skeptics. The scinteific way is to do experiments first despite possible doubts and offer proofs or disproves later on when time has come. Our suffering globe justifies any effort.
rgds JohnS

Hi JohnStone
I do not know if this will help but do you remember seeing how min2oly in his vidio cut out the center of a drawing of the diagram and spun it. Maybe this type of thing would help you see. The parts which turn help keep your mind from turning.
Dana

[interdesign21]

Thanks Dana
I agree about the huge amount of definitions,. . . in my country we say : every head is a world.
My question was more oriented to the possibility of looping the motor out into itself and complement
the rest from the generator, letting the extra power from generator for other use, using the battery just for the start.
Anyway, I am clear about the limitations, like drag, fatigue of materials etc, so . . I´m not thinking of a so called "perpetual" thing.
cheers
Alvaro

[selnet]

Hello Ufopolitics
Finaly I have finished the rotor and stator equipment. Before I assemble the motor I measure the resistance of every coil .They have worth between 0,20 – 0,25 ohms.I think it is too small .As an electric starter it had 0,75 mm wire and 16 turns in every rotor split also much little Ohm.Now I ve changed it to 0.60mm wire and every split has 48turns ( more turns dont fit in to the split)also every coil has 12 turns .What do you think if I can try it so or must change it with smaller wire more turns and more resistance.And if you give some wiring suggestion about the pure generator ‘Ill be glad Thanks in advance
selnet

[nico8k]

Washing Machine Motors

@Seth

Hello Seth, we are using the same kind of motors
Take a look... Flickr: Nico8k's Photostream

I just need to machine a new shaft long enough and I will start assembling it.
I'm reading ALL thread now looking for the best way to wind the 15 poles rotor.
I'm now at page 35 but reading lasts posts I think I gonna use 12-Pole method and upgrade to 15 poles. Also I'm following Netica and MachineAlive lasts posts
about the way they are winding his stators. I know mine is ferrous but for now I will use it just to test, then I will make one in aluminum.

Thanks!

Nico

[s e t h]

@Seth

Hello Seth, we are using the same kind of motors
Take a look... Flickr: Nico8k's Photostream

I just need to machine a new shaft long enough and I will start assembling it.
I'm reading ALL thread now looking for the best way to wind the 15 poles rotor.
I'm now at page 35 but reading lasts posts I think I gonna use 12-Pole method and upgrade to 15 poles. Also I'm following Netica and MachineAlive lasts posts
about the way they are winding his stators. I know mine is ferrous but for now I will use it just to test, then I will make one in aluminum.

Thanks!

Nico

cool...i was real pleased when this motor was found...i must just go get another one exactly the same.
and will have to make a tool in order to just disassemble it still.

regarding 15 pole i've been on this thread nearly all day every day since the very beginning and i don't recall a 15pole design...however i'm quite sure you can use iether 3 or 5 pole design by grouping your poles into a set of 5 or 3 and following then the designs. alternatively take a good look at the later designs close to 15 pole like the 12/16 or any others and try copy the basic principles of those designs into a drawing for approval. maybe Ufopolitics will give you a good suggestion like the super asymmetrical 5 pole or something.

i may be wrong but regarding ferrous stator core i'm sure i read Ufopolitics saying it would be even better...the non-ferrous cores are more to prove the point of not needing standard induction materials in these design.
i too am hoping that ferrous stator is just fine and as i say i think i recall that it will be

[jokosunday]

motor found

Hi all,

I see a lot of work has been done here! this is really fun!

I just recovered an industrial engine can be powered by 220 volts or 380 volts.

My project is to make the engine asymmetric coupling to a generator to self feed and produce additional electricity.

If I understand correctly, you have to find a generator that produces electricity at the same RPM that the engine delivers.

How do you to vary the speed of your motors?

If somebody could give me a circuit diagram to connect the motor to vary the speed of the engine, it would be nice; because I'm completely newbie, but I want to learn !

I have taken some pictures of the engine and connectors, I'm a little confused how to connect the motor; anyway I must disasemble the motor after work.

Here some pics :









see you later

[nico8k]

Welcome Jokosunday

Hello and welcome Jokosunday!

As I know, seeing your pictures, it seems that is an INDUCTION motor, this type of motors can't be converted to Asymmetrical. You need to find those that use carbons and with or without permanent magnets. Someone correct me please if I'm wrong.
About controlling motor speed we pulse it, take a look at page #52 here you can find the circuits.
But I strongly recommend you that take a BIG breath and start reading from page ONE, there is TOO much to learn here asides of just running a motor

Enjoy Ufo Thread!

Nico

[promt]

I did not get it, do you need skeptics or not?? Seems you have plenty of them over there but not many have guts to speak up.
Of course I built it, otherwise why should I even bother to write here. As well as I (actually it is We) built crap of those all 5 and 10KW OU claimers (zilano, cosmo, etc), where are they now??
And of course it works - why not, it's still coil in magnetic field, school's physics.

I tell you something... I believe you are a VERY INTELLIGENT person!... because you always posts this constructive words WHEN you SEE a REAL claim!

Thanks, yes, Intelligence is ability to see a Nature of Things, and what we see here?
First, it's ALEXANDER'S version of Motor-Generator, it does not matter where you place brushes,
second, generator coils here always have CEMF, just put load on it and watch it slows down (real face of "princess"),
thirdly, the key words - THE SAME WIRE (length and gauge), make it in fair way (all other things the same) and watch less power and rpms (at least we see it), since only ONE set of coils working here vs all coils simultaneously in original motor, but of course if you make this ONE coil bigger... ,
and last, I've addressed only to two people here - Turion and Farmhand, clearminded ones, why so much fuss, oh, "save a Queen", very nice of you, real friend.
That's what "skeptics" thinks, and very few speaks.

I'm sure when you saw Prochiro video and you REALIZED that it's REAL, that it could be a WINNER... That's when you jump like a beast!

Sorry, I do not have enough time to see toys, I've just answered to Farmhand, just a coincidence I guess

Your comments are like CONGRATULATIONS!

"So PLEASE keep posting your bad comments every time you see OUR GREAT WORK!"

U r very welcome.
I will (why they so bad for you, what's wrong with them, an't they true??), when will see the sober thoughts.
Until than have a good time, it's really good thing to spend time around.
Love you too, really enjoying the show.
aurevoir
go get my popcorn

[Ufopolitics]

Take it for a spin ...

Hello Ufopolitics
Finaly I have finished the rotor and stator equipment. Before I assemble the motor I measure the resistance of every coil .They have worth between 0,20 – 0,25 ohms.I think it is too small .As an electric starter it had 0,75 mm wire and 16 turns in every rotor split also much little Ohm.Now I ve changed it to 0.60mm wire and every split has 48turns ( more turns dont fit in to the split)also every coil has 12 turns .What do you think if I can try it so or must change it with smaller wire more turns and more resistance.And if you give some wiring suggestion about the pure generator ‘Ill be glad Thanks in advance
selnet

Hello Selnet,

I would take it for a spin just like that...it looks great!

Try first to run it for a short time and check temp....if it is ok then go for longer time...

You should be fine being around or closer to 1.0 ohms per Pair, so a 0.5 ohms per coil in the pair is great.
Remember this coils are alternating constantly...not in a closed loop...so they do have time to cool off, minimal, but still...time off.

Finer wire will increment resistance as it will not render a great magnetic field, due to less amperage.

Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Hello Dear John Stone

Hi Ufo,
still pondering on my motor because I want to understand it fully.
I still not understood at what time/angle a winding pair should be fired exactly. I can not shift the brushes but I have 24 commutator segments available for 12 poles. I hope I can find a wiring shema being near to optimum.
Please beare with me and look at my drawings representing my actual vacuum motor (my first trial with Google Sketchup ).
With one segment connected only it fires 27 degree before TDC (center north magnet vs. center coil pair approaching)


and stops firing 27 degeree after TDC

At what angle should the respective coil start firing?
It will fire for 54 degree and I can add another 15 degree after if I connect the next segment. Where to adjust the sweep angle of 69 degree?

BTW:
1. Slip bearings removed and it runs on ball bearings fine now!
2. Don't serve the skeptics. The scinteific way is to do experiments first despite possible doubts and offer proofs or disproves later on when time has come. Our suffering globe justifies any effort.
rgds JohnS

Hello Dear John Stone,

I like your diagrams, very cool with Google Sketch!!...

Now, John, if you look at your both pictures 1 and 2 , that rotor should NOT be spinning in that direction (CW), but opposite(CCW)

This leads me to understand why you do not understand this Machines as of now...
See, You have to look at simple Magnets behavior...

Two Opposite Magnets (N & S) that could rotate freely...but without being able to touch each others physically...will attract to each others UP TO the Point where they both meet their EXACT Dead Center or Bisector of their Field Projected Angle.

The opposite happens when Equal Magnets approach (N&N, or S&S), Meaning the Point where they could NEVER be able to "STAY"...facing each others...and where the Maximum Strength of Repulsion will take place....is exactly at the Dead Center or Bisector of Each of them.

Therefore to see, to understand My Machines properly...You MUST ALWAYS search and locate the Bisector of each Interacting Coils, in the Pairs AND in the Stators. Then it will automatically tell you if your element at commutator should or Not be energized...


Sometime this week (can not now am too busy this week) I will draw on top of your diagrams...what you should be looking for...

However, I hope you understand my explanation...if not please let me know...and I will try better...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[JohnStone]

..... In seeing a picture of one fan motor disassembled (below) I saw it had 4 brushes on the commutator. I'm not sure this is even a Siemens motor but I thought about your assymetry info here and wondered if possibly someone at Siemens or other car fan makers might be using this in their motor designs. A large company like that would not want to claim any 'overunity' or anything like that I'm sure but they would just claim a very efficient design for car makers.....

Hi ewizard,
those motors still act conforming standard motor theory. Imagine them to be two 2-pole motors built into one casing being shifted by 90 degree in terms of action area. Thus they are strong motors in the form factor of one motor. They are wound in standard way despite they might be of high efftiency type. Additionally the sources of ineffitiency are doubled as well. Imagine a normal motor as a two cylinder engine and a 4 pole motor as a 4 cylinder engine taking the same volume.
Nevertheless UFO states that those motors are a good base for converting to strong asymmetric motors as well. In fact his 56 Imperial 4HP motor being under construction is a 4 brush/pole motor AND its original winding is NOT asymmetrical.
That's my comprehension - corrections welcome.
rgds John