My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[JohnStone]

Hello Ufopolitics,

may I ask you a questions, please?

[In a symmetric DC-Motor there is one pair of commutators brushes (+-) for each pair of stator poles (N-S). In every slot of the commutator are two wires inserted. So the stator consists of a endless loop of wire, a endless loop of coils. In every moment of the running rotor, one half of coils (say 0°-180°) are series connected, the other half of coils (180°-360°) are series connected. Both series circuits are parallel between +brush and -brush, all the time.]

In your Asymmetric DC-Motor there are TWO pairs of commutator brushes for each pair of stator poles. Motor brush pair is (fires at) upper commutator(+) and lower commutator(-) (say top dead center ~0°), and Generator brush pair is upper commutator(-) and lower commutator(+) (~180°).


How many wires run in each commutator slot?
(Symmetric DC-Motor has two wires in each commutator slot).


Best Regards
magnetO

This item was discussed in detail before in this thread.
Every coil owns one segement in each commutator if the segments equal the armature poles. Some commutators have segements doubled vs. motor poles. Then there are 2 segments per coil.

Standard windings reverse current flow / polarity after passing the brush. This causes apparently unevitable losses along reduced torque in high rpm area.
Asymmetric windings get pulsed when contacted to brushes and then are leaved alone performing the magic we are after.

Conforming P. Lindeman the electric energy being truely converted into mech movement perfoms with factor 3 (300%). In figures: 36W in / 6W converted in 18W mech power / 30W losses. I the view as a blackbox we measure COP 0.5 and feel it is a natural law - but it is not.
Please study the thread for details.
rgdsa
John

[magnetO]

Every coil owns one segement in each commutator if the segments equal the armature poles.

Standard windings reverse current flow / polarity after passing the brush. This causes apparently unevitable losses along reduced torque in high rpm area.
Asymmetric windings get pulsed when contacted to brushes and then are leaved alone performing the magic we are after.


rgdsa
John

Hi John,

if rotor poles (slots) number and commutator slots number are equal,

then in every upper comm. slot ends only ONE wire, and in every lower comm. slot ends only ONE wire?

So, the firing schema for motor brush pair is: P1, P1//P2, P2, P2//P3, P3, ...?
Only one or max. two coils are hot direct under motor brush (say 20..30°)?

Best regards
magnetO

[Donald Haas]

Problems with forum - Ian K

Hi Ian,

I usually use my PC that is an older winxp desktop, for the internet.

I found that when I use my wifes newer win 7, the problems that I was having just like you, seem to go away.

Some times the xp cp does better when I delete everything I can with tools/internet options/delete on my browser, and restart the pc.

So buy your wife a new computer!

Just playin a little.

Keep up the great work.

bro d

[Ufopolitics]

G'Day UFO
I have stripped down one of the 2 Chinese ZY1020F Motors I bought
I am also trying to purchase the endcap with the Brushes and Brushholders and an extra commutator.
It Is much the same as the one John stone purchased
It has 10 poles 4 stators and 4 brushes I want to run this motor in a Tricycle I am going to build
I have built the larger coil to use with the controller just like the Happy motor you displayed on MMGMIRE List I have on order the parts to make the controller with the mods John stone is showing us that is the caps and extra 555 timer circuit to drive 2 or 4 mosfets each and am going to do a test with both motors by having them physically mounted in the Trike and therefore I want to run this motor forwards and backwards

As you had the bosh motor in a scooter and they need to also run in Reverse I imagine it is just a matter of reversing the wires from the controller to the motor.
I do not want so much the speed as the torque and am also wondering as on most of your wiring diagrams you show the direction the motor is to run is it OK just to reverse the wiring to reverse the motor on these motors.

I really appreciate all your effort and all the input from all those contributing in helping us to do these motors.

Kindest Regards


Patiently waiting for parts

Hello Ian,


The Scooter does NOT goes reverse...you just step it/push it backwards yourself...in case of bad driving and got to the wrong path...

Commutator-Brushes Motors should travel in one direction most of times, brushes and commutators get a shape from rotation...and doing it reverse cause faster worn out of brushes and misshape of comm elements...so reverse should be for minimal use and much lower voltage than forward driving. Normally in Golf Carts and Electric Vehicles, the reverse circuit uses less batteries through a separate circuit...say forward six batteries of 6Volts (36V)...and reverse only three batteries (18V).

Asymmetrical Motors could be driven both ways, same as symmetrical...just have to set it in NEUTRAL positioning at brushes coils stators...where the repulsion attraction are set at same distance from Stator Bisectors. I already explained that in my post to Donald Haas...above.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Hello and Welcome

Hello Ufopolitics,

may I ask you a questions, please?

[In a symmetric DC-Motor there is one pair of commutators brushes (+-) for each pair of stator poles (N-S). In every slot of the commutator are two wires inserted. So the stator consists of a endless loop of wire, a endless loop of coils. In every moment of the running rotor, one half of coils (say 0°-180°) are series connected, the other half of coils (180°-360°) are series connected. Both series circuits are parallel between +brush and -brush, all the time.]

In your Asymmetric DC-Motor there are TWO pairs of commutator brushes for each pair of stator poles. Motor brush pair is (fires at) upper commutator(+) and lower commutator(-) (say top dead center ~0°), and Generator brush pair is upper commutator(-) and lower commutator(+) (~180°).


How many wires run in each commutator slot?
(Symmetric DC-Motor has two wires in each commutator slot).


Best Regards
magnetO

Hello MagnetO, and Welcome.

[In a symmetric DC-Motor there is one pair of commutators brushes (+-) for each pair of stator poles (N-S). In every slot of the commutator are two wires inserted. So the stator consists of a endless loop of wire, a endless loop of coils. In every moment of the running rotor, one half of coils (say 0°-180°) are series connected, the other half of coils (180°-360°) are series connected. Both series circuits are parallel between +brush and -brush, all the time.]

Ok, first the statement(s) you have made is(are) wrong.

In a Symmetric Motor there are NOT two wires per commutator element. It is the same wire, that "lands" at element then continues to next...only at the End Tie you see physically two wires, start and end joint at same commutator element.

And...It is NOT an endless loop...but a CLOSED Loop.

I recommend you watch My "Symmetry of Darkness" Video...so you understand symmetry better.

Symmetrical Electromagnetic Fields are based on a series connected of CLOSED Loop Coils that have as many MIDDLE contacts as elements at commutator, Negative-Positive Brushes define the Virtual Static Fields by dividing them in Two if two brush system...and Four if Four Brush System, N/S or N/S/N/S...
Every time a contact-coil leaves one side of virtual static field at rotor...another contact-coil enters at 180º in a two brush...and every 90º in a four brush.

In Symmetry, All Coils are ON at ALL Times, just reversing polarity in every change-contact to brushes.

In your Asymmetric DC-Motor there are TWO pairs of commutator brushes for each pair of stator poles. Motor brush pair is (fires at) upper commutator(+) and lower commutator(-) (say top dead center ~0°), and Generator brush pair is upper commutator(-) and lower commutator(+) (~180°).


How many wires run in each commutator slot?
(Symmetric DC-Motor has two wires in each commutator slot).

Correct, however, "not necessarily"...a Motor could easily run with just two brushes (no generator) one top, one bottom.

In a single Pair (not joint by Groups) Asymmetrical Machine Design ...one wire per commutator element.

And again...in Symmetry it is ONLY ONE WIRE...that connects to commutator element and then keeps going to next coil...it may look like two wires...but it is just one...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Hi John,

if rotor poles (slots) number and commutator slots number are equal,

then in every upper comm. slot ends only ONE wire, and in every lower comm. slot ends only ONE wire?

So, the firing schema for motor brush pair is: P1, P1//P2, P2, P2//P3, P3, ...?
Only one or max. two coils are hot direct under motor brush (say 20..30°)?

Best regards
magnetO

Hello again,

Yes, correct, that is the firing "schema", except the 20-30º...
Each Pair could grab a whole 180º of total 360...like in the Imperial Motor We are working on now...it has 28 poles total, and each Pair grabs 14 poles, seven South, seven North...BUT they are INTERLACED between them...by ONE Pole Progression/Advance...

Related to Commutator Elements and Rotor Poles Relation...We can NOT assume a steady "formula" of "Equal #'s" for each...Imperial have 28 poles at rotor...and 56 elements at commutator (that is why we are using two elements per Pair)...and it comes from the Symmetric World...so, again, We can not just draw "lightly" statements and consider they are "just like that, and they are right"...because they are NOT.

I believe You need to review and read more into this Technology, as also into the Symmetry...before you start making your own final conclusions...

If You do not have clear the Symmetrical Basic Concepts...You can not understand Asymmetry, my friend...That is why I dedicated just one video to show how Symmetry works [SYMMETRY OF DARKNESS]...looking at it from their Static-Symmetrical Virtual Magnetic Fields at their Rotor-Armatures (Watch it at Video Time 3:10 )...and that "Side of Symmetry"...You WILL NOT learn it at ANY Engineering or Technical Schools...That is where the "Key" to unveil the Big Difference between the Two Systems exists.

VIRTUAL SYMMETRIC MAGNETIC FIELDS AT ROTOR:

[IMG][/IMG]


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Hello My Dear Ian Koglin...

G'Day UFO
I went to the local 100K away Motor rewind firm today to get some insulation paper for lining the armature on my 1000 watt motor also to see where I could have my armatures balanced and as I was explaining the mishap with the speed of the motor you had to drive the Mecc Alte head he questioned me about the speed so high and when I got home I looked up the specs and it showed

The Mecc Alte S16W 2 pole specs say that for 230v 50 Hz the revs need to be 3000 and for 129v 60Hz the revs need to be 3600

Please explain why we need the motor to go so fast

Kindest Regards


Always thinking and learning

Hello My Dear Friend,

The reason why We test this Motor for MAX Speed is to be able to watch the RPM's Drop Values as we measure its Horse Power.

Mathematically Speaking...Motor is required to STAND over 90 Pounds (exactly 91.67Lb =10HP*) of Braking Pressure at the ranges of 3200-3800 RPM's, (let's say 3600) in order to deliver the 10 to 13 HP by Mecc Alte for Full Output of its 6000 Watts.

*1HP=550 Ft-Lb/Sec, then 10 HP=5500 Ft-Lb/Sec and 3600 RPM's at RPS=60 (Considering 1 exact Feet of Circumference for easier calculations) We have:

5500/60=91.67 Pounds for 10 HP...

So, the more RPM's we start from...the more distance in the "Drop Down" Curve we could play with...

You must have in mind that those 7400-9000 RPM's are at No Load values (Free Spinning)...and once we connect/couple with Mecc Alte's Shaft, even not loading generator output...it will drop down in RPM's...as Motor is now turning Generator Rotor Weight, plus bearing friction losses, etc.

From here We start to load Generator and watch speed comes down...till we see the "Full Lights"...

And again, this are Linear/Straight Feed Tests from Batteries...and we can NOT measure yet our Amperage In...since they are pulsed and we are not pulsing the Feed like it is supposed to be COMPATIBLE...Pulsed feed will be much lower in Input expenses (V + A) on our side...SO, IF We "make it" through Linear/Straight testing...then we do it easier at pulsed feed..."piece of cake" like we say...


The System will be in complete balance, once that we could regulate speed/torque by pulses to the Prime Mover Feed...and so far we have been running it at Full Power On...creating heavy population of electrons and Avalanche Galore (High Amperage Values). But it is a way to know IF We will go overboard like I want to...


Regards My Dear Friend


Ufopolitics

[magnetO]

Hello again,

Yes, correct, that is the firing "schema", except the 20-30º...
Each Pair could grab a whole 180º of total 360...like in the Imperial Motor We are working on now...it has 28 poles total, and each Pair grabs 14 poles, seven South, seven North...BUT they are INTERLACED between them...by ONE Pole Progression/Advance...

Hello Ufopolitics,

yes I see, everytime, always ~50% (~180°) of rotor area is at work.

All (360°/number of poles) a new coil pair is active, and a old coil pair leaves brushes.

So, per 1 revolution there are 28 (the latest Asym. Imperial Motor) opening of coils.

And it isnt a huge amount of sparking at the brushes?
They stay cool?
No enhanced wearing of brushes?


Couldnt we use the "Generator"-brushes for a second Motor brush pair?



Best regards
magnetO

[prochiro]

magnetO
Yes you can but that requires a different wire setup than current Imperial. By connecting the first coils negative to second coils positive we have two power sets. You really need as UFO has asked, to go to the beginning and read as well as make a small (TOY) motor. If you ask 5 more questions and UFO answers 5 more times, you will still not understand and be able to do this unless you go and read from the beginning as well as watch all videos.
Dana

[Ufopolitics]

Speculations...not good.

Hello Ufopolitics,

yes I see, everytime, always ~50% (~180°) of rotor area is at work.

Nope, it is 100% (360º) at ALL times in a Symmetrical Config.

All (360°/number of pole pairs) a new coil pair is active, and a old coil pair leaves brushes.

"Leaves the Brushes" to enter into the "Other Side of the Symmetrical Mirror"...still at work, but reversed.

So, per 1 revolution there are 28 (the latest Asym. Imperial Motor) opening of coils.

Yes, in Imperial there are 28 times it opens/closes Pairs per Revolution.
Per 1 Revolution there is Two Pairs at Work in Imperial...or Four Pairs like you wrote Max...adding a one to two degrees more per side...

And it isnt a huge amount of sparking at the brushes?
They stay cool?
No enhanced wearing of brushes?

Now You are "Speculating"...into something You have not absolute domain of...not good my friend.

They stay Super Cool, watch my videos how I insert My Finger inside Coils...after a run...as measure Temp. with IR Thermometer...

Couldnt we use the "Generator"-brushes for a second Motor brush pair?

Now, without the proper full knowledge...You are trying to "Improve" this System?

No, you can not short the Generator Brushes, unless rectifying their output...then you do...I did that in my First Thread Here...with a Static Pulsed Coil, Two Ultrafast Diodes feeding reversed current into a Motor...

Best regards
magnetO

See, I am sorry, but can not continue to "Teach" you here...when ALL is written in both threads.
You walk in here, without a proper nicely introduction...but asking questions already written...and making wrong assumptions...not the way to enter a Forum, My Friend...not polite at all.

We are all here very busy...on Replications, helping each others...and Testing Results...so no time to start a First Grade Schooling now...I am sorry.

I have dedicated tons of hours to create videos, animations, music...Color Diagrams, CAD's...3D CAD...and the works...and are ALL Written here and in My YT Channel...but you have not looked at them...nor read this thread AND the First One properly.

So please, may I ask You to continue reading, learning...and make your replications at smaller scale first...then check measure results...like it IS Supposed to be done...then you could show Us the work you have done through pictures, videos, etc...and IF any problems you have faced, we will be more than happy to help you...

As You will find out about the sparking...and temperature on the way.



Sincerely


Ufopolitics

[Donald Haas]

Hello Donald,

Ok, related to brush alignment...look at drawing...it shows the best positioning for Motor Input related to P-1...It is the neutral position, meaning Repulse/Attract are balanced there.


You could move brushes CCW and set it for more Repulsion Mode (stronger)...or CW for attraction...
Look at Coils Bisectors related to Stators Bisectors (Dead Center)...that gives you the idea...and the closer you get North P1 to center of North Stator...the stronger motor will run based on repulsion...AS LONG AS YOU do NOT pass that line to the other side of stator center bisect.


Regards


Ufopolitics

Hi UFO,

I happy to say that I was able to "adjust" the winding to match the result of the winding picture and now it looks lined up perfectly.
When the brush is between 1 & 2 on the comm, P1 is exactly like the pick.
Dead center on the stator mag.

Thankyou very much for all your help for us "students".

Should run very well with very little adjustment of brushes if any.

bro d

[Ufopolitics]

My Future...Your Future...

Hello to All,

So far I have been displaying most of all testing and Models Built videos using My You Tube Channel
That channel is not only viewed by You guys here...as I also send the interested ones in "knowing" to this Forum Thread...

I had many private inquiries as if I would like to sell a "Kit" for beginners to start practicing...or some have asked me to sell them a whole motor...and so on...

Unfortunately, many People are not skilled to make the replications we all make here...

And honestly, I am not interested in making a "Good Jewish Business" (No intentions against any Jewish People..but they are excellent at business success) out of this Technology at all. As I do not have the time to get involved into it...as it requires a lot of set up and area as stocking parts and materials, mailing orders, FEDEX, UPS...PayPal, etc,etc...nope...

So, by all means...anyone who is willing to start His own business of sales of Kits or ready Motors..please, be my guest and I will happily put it at my YT Channel...as I will re-direct the people interested also.

You could Open a Thread here...and others will join from different areas of our planet...it would be an excellent and beautiful way to disburse/expand this Technology...

I have been also requested to provide a PDF or any kind of Literature with all the details about my work...many friends have suggested I sale them for pennies...at any of my sites, or here...or there...I will not do it either...even for pennies.

And it is not about that I am so wealthy...I do not need the Income...I do need it...you guys have no idea how much I do...but there is "something, more powerful than Money..."...that prohibits me from charging to exhibit my work here...and I know many would not understand the reason why...so, I will keep it for myself...

In a near future...when we all have tested and created the proper models that brakes all the Old School Dogma...

Then, I will write a couple of Books...One Technical...with all the Insides about this Methodology and Technology details...I may sell them...I may not...I don't know...The Purpose is that Other Generations could learn about this...hopefully at School.

And another one about My Life...as Ufopolitics...as other projects I have developed...

Later on I will open another Thread here...the Final One...where I will expose the Machines that brought me into this Technology...that opened my eyes to see what was there at those colorful idle times, while rendering in MAYA 3D Animation Software...However, those Machines are Patented...so making that Thread now...will expose openly who I am...and I am not ready yet to do that.

Those Machines are basically intended to lift off the Ground vehicles, Crafts (VTOL)...and Robotics Servo Motors Development as their drivers, controllers, new type of Chips,etc...as other areas of Engineering...none related to Energy like this one here...

It was never my intention...to create such Asymmetrical Machines, directly related to Energy...I just stumbled across them by careful observation of the above Invention(s)...

But like I wrote at start...you guys could do replications for requests and sale them at any time...remember, this is an Open Source and Public Domain Technology...so I will not interfere from making them and charging a fair price for your work and profit on parts, etc,etc...

Further on...when we fully develop the Prime Mover-Generator System...turn key/ready to hook appliances...You guys could also put them together and sell it to your neighbors...give it to your family...or sell it online...or at your town...just be careful with "Licensing or Protection"...from Governments...DoE (Dept of Energy)...

The Symmetric Generator is an approved UL System in any Country...so the Prime Mover all it does is to "Turn It as successfully as a Gas Engine does"...no UL Violation codes could ever be Enforced by this "Fusion"...since the power Outlets to AC are already approved by their own Codes, and We will NOT be altering them at all..

As also applies, ready to install kits for Automotive, Recreational Vehicles...including Bikes...Scooters, Roller Skates*...Where We are just hooking a Prime Mover, turning a Transmission Gear Assy or direct drive...and spinning those wheels...as Vehicle is configured by DOT Spec's...so no Enforcement and Limitations here either...and so on and on...the limit is only set by yourself...


Regards and Light to all


Ufopolitics

* A Friend showed me a while back a crazy new design in Electric Roller Skates...You drive it with an R/C Gun Type Remote Control like the ones used on Hobbies Cars and Planes...it has a powerful symmetrical heavy duty-all metal-all weather brush motor undercarriage ...no steering...just experience with your feet......That "thing" goes for $500.00 for Lead Acid Batteries...or LiPo's will cost $1000.00!!...Crazy Uh?!

[Cornboy 555]

Thanks.

THANKS for sharing UFO, it is rare and very refreshing in these times of absolute greed.

Warm Regards Cornboy.

[iankoglin]

Hello Ian,


The Scooter does NOT goes reverse...you just step it/push it backwards yourself...in case of bad driving and got to the wrong path...

Commutator-Brushes Motors should travel in one direction most of times, brushes and commutators get a shape from rotation...and doing it reverse cause faster worn out of brushes and misshape of comm elements...so reverse should be for minimal use and much lower voltage than forward driving. Normally in Golf Carts and Electric Vehicles, the reverse circuit uses less batteries through a separate circuit...say forward six batteries of 6Volts (36V)...and reverse only three batteries (18V).

Asymmetrical Motors could be driven both ways, same as symmetrical...just have to set it in NEUTRAL positioning at brushes coils stators...where the repulsion attraction are set at same distance from Stator Bisectors. I already explained that in my post to Donald Haas...above.

Regards

Ufopolitics

G'Day Pal
Thanks for the quick reply
When I wound my previous modified motors (the tandy and the windscreen motors I also ran them backwards and as there was no real length of shaft to attach some means of testing the strength of movement i.e. the Torque all I was able to do was run them for some period of time to measure firstly the Volts in my battery before I ran the machine and watched the Amps/volts coming from the batteries into the controller and the Amps/volts coming from the controller into the Motor measuring before and after the diodes and also how the motor was able to increase in Volts and speed without drawing any more from the battery, and after doing the runs measure again the volts in the battery and see the difference the battery voltage always jumped back after an hour to almost the original volts. I did also ran these motors backwards as well as forwards and there was no real difference in the results and I assumed that this was because I did not have a load applied.And so I imagined If I applied a load there would be a difference due to the fact that the wiring was really wired in advance so as when the motors speed up the current driving the motors would need to have a certain time to catch up and there for need to be advanced Just like in a petrol Ignition system.

I really believed exactly as you described but not so much detail as you have explained and I thank you for it your post was very imformative to me.
I truly appreciate and value your explanation.

Sorry for the long post it is really hard to explain in short posts and it is for the benefit to explain in detail for those who are interested.

Kindest regards



In AUS the term Pal is used quite frequently

Pal | Define Pal at Dictionary.com

[sampojo]

Poss. Discrepancies to winding vids, pdfs regards to RS and in general

Hello Sampojo,


Take a look at this video...

Asymmetric DC Motor - Winding Question - YouTube

He starts at 2:00 to simulate the winding (and He is got it correct), the only problem He had was the Brushes positioning were wrong.

PDF by Member Interdesign (Alvaro) is here:
ASYMETRIC WINDING.pdf

Ufopolitics

Hi Ufo & other senior members, need to clarify some inconsistencies that are possibly misleading for any winding. The compilation of Alvaro is quite excellent, but let me see if we may agree on some things.

on Page 3, from post 1148, a possible error here:



I contend that the bent coil reverses direction at the bend exactly opposite of what numerous written texts say, that the same direction of winding should be maintained. To illustrate see this normal coil wrap below:


You cannot doubt that it is unidirectional. Now lets bend it to make it asymmetric.:



Slipping it completely off the tube, notice exactly how the arrows transition track looks like:



Now lets do a coil that clearly changes directions of winding, shown at the red pointer:



Slip it off the tube:



This is exactly what is shown from post 1149, and must be wrong.

Next let me capture key frames from the Kaptainkneemow winding video.

Winding the first half coil:



Transition to 2nd half coil:



Starting the second half of the coil:



I want to say if you straighten out the video transiton loop it will look like the situation that I may be showing as an error in the bent loop on the figure from post 1149. But I can clearly see he goes CW then CCW too!

Now I thought I definitely followed this diagram to a tee and it looks like my coat hangar Asym coil I think.



So I will look to clear this up in my own mind more as I go to disassemble and inspect the winding again. I am still conflicted about the winding video technique and Post 2250 tuning dgm. Hopefully it is just, as they say where I grew up, more than one way to skin a cat? No data on the commutator being off by one yet.

Gotta get by this one or nada
UPDATE: My nomination for best winding instruction video is by Turion UFO Coil Winding for Dummies - YouTube