My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[prochiro]

lightworker1
I can see the headlines now, Col. Tom backs up UFO. HaHa HoHo HeHe.
Dana

[Ufopolitics]

Hello Sampojo...

Here is a few questions for UFO then.

1. So this motor must have a total of 8 BRUSHES ++-- motor and ++-- gens ?
2. For wiring, do you connect the input power motor + terminals together onto the power?
3. Are you and machine building an asym gen and if so, where approximately in the thead is the best place to start studying it?

• Yes, that's correct, four top, four bottom, Two Positive Motor Top, Two Negative Top Generator, Two Negative bottom Motor, Two Positive Generator at bottom.
• Motor Parallel, Generator Series, Motor Two Positive attached, Two Negatives attached.
• Generator link http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post205259

I want to try to convert a salvaged induction motors to a generator to run off of the first 10-pole I build, the one I have is shown in the first pic, before I invest 600 in a Mecce Alte.

I have a question about what generator output (harvested CEMF) looks like on an O-scope. I am assuming it is similar to BEMF from any non-motor coil, which must be very spikey high voltage, ringing like crazy, and decaying rapidly, to give a simple voltmeter reading of a "steady" 18v or whatever.

Give it a try, test it yourself and see what it looks like.

UFO or Machine, is this where the diodes and caps come it to improve the quality of the generator output? Is it possible to apply a FWBR to get more power in this situation?

Thanks!

Joe

Sampojo, all your listed questions above are on this Thread, and if not here...on My First Thread, It took me a while to search back to find the link I posted...You could have done exactly same thing.

You will have to make a replication first then start drawing conclusions/assumptions...the fact that first one did not worked out...does not mean you are gonna try for a more complex one and it will work "this time"...
You have to start like the rest...by simple, less complex models.

You have not done that and you want to jump into other clever approaches...like an Asymmetric Generator?

It does not work like that in real life...in the event you fail first grade...you do not ask teachers to "move you ahead" to Third or Fourth Grade...and expect They will do it for you ?


Same, exact thing applies here.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[sampojo]

Thanks UFO for your reply

Sorry to be impatient, so much to learn. But things looking better here actually, left off insulating washer on front of brushes! I want to make the RS a real motor FIRST (grade?). ;-)

[Lester444]

Hello Lester,

First let me tell you that I like very much your neat work, I can see that you like perfection, even in the pictures you choose the right background and your models are very nicely put together...so, yes, you will build and make very nice asymmetrical machines, as videos and picture albums. like that!...

I did not respond last night, because I wanted to put it together for you...in detail.

Now:
Yes Lester, Four Stator Magnets will be much stronger than Two, but unfortunately the Torquemaster diagram that I have shown is for a Two Stator set up...and that is kind of different, so you will have to modify the arrangement there.

If You choose Four Stators, then you will need Four Brushes on top, four on bottom, dividing the 360º Quadrant in Four.
Then the original P12 Torquemaster winding pattern will not work...why?...Because there, every coil grabs Four Poles, designed to interact with just Two Stators.

To make it Four Stator Interaction Pattern, you will need that each Pair grabs exactly 180º, meaning each Coil 90º, therefore, Two Pairs opposed by 180º like P1-P7 will take exactly the whole 360º...And in a 12 poles is easy, you just grab Three (3) Poles per Coil, Six (6) in the Pair.

It is very similar to Imperial Configuration, except the total number of poles. Imperial P1 have exactly opposed at 180º to P15, they grab seven poles each coil, so 28 total poles between the two pairs...in your case will be P7 the opposed to P1.

So I did for you the Schematics related to that conversion below:

Note that I have set P1 Commutator element just entering into contact with Motor Brush, as also P7 Commutator Element, then note those two Pairs (P1-P7) Bisectors are passed ALL the Stators Bisectors (N-S) by merely a less than 5º angle...so all Coils are on its critical repulsion mode.

This Motor would be VERY Strong (Torque wise), much more than the original P12 Two Stators...I could say more than double...however, in speed I could not say...because the interaction angles are bigger in the two Stators...cause they are grabbing Four Poles instead of Three...but still, the difference will not be that much...

Now P10 and P4 in this Paused Frame...are just entering into Generation Mode at G Brushes...So it will have also dual Pairs contributing to output, and as I mentioned in Imperial, and in other set ups like the MY Razor Motor 16 poles...it would be best to connect Generator Brushes in series...while Motor would be in Parallel.

Wish you a great built model, I know you can make it happen Lester.


Regards


Ufopolitics

Hello UFO,

Thank you for that drawing and the detailed explanation. I perfectly understood what you said so 4 stator poles it is!

Gotta get busy now and finish up this motor............

Lester

[Donald Haas]

Dana's "Leemo"

Why do I keep getting the feeling that Dana is going to do a drive by in his Imperial powered "Leemo"?

It's taking almost too long for the next UT.

bro d

[smitev72]

21 Poles

Hello UFO,

Thank you very much for your prompt reply. I really appreciate it. I will wait for more guidance from you…. 21 Poles

Best Regards
Smitev

[prochiro]

Donald
Everything is coming along fine. After preliminary testing I felt that the motor should be tied down to something so I started making a jig for it and doing internal motor inspections and better bearings. Half way thru the jig, the welder broke. I got a new one and finished the jig. I am waiting for high amp toggle switches and such. It took a day for the jig paint to dry so I made a control panel for all the switched and the positive power cable switch. I am taking the rotor back to the shop for another soldering as I think the first was too lite although nothing went wrong. If you have a feeling that it may need more work, you should do it as that motor is mean. After that the 2400 watt generator head goes on. I have also been busy at work lately and not getting home on time so hours have been shorter. In the end it will be worth it and you will see videos and pictures as well as data.
Dana

[Donald Haas]

Donald
Everything is coming along fine. After preliminary testing I felt that the motor should be tied down to something so I started making a jig for it and doing internal motor inspections and better bearings. Half way thru the jig, the welder broke. I got a new one and finished the jig. I am waiting for high amp toggle switches and such. It took a day for the jig paint to dry so I made a control panel for all the switched and the positive power cable switch. I am taking the rotor back to the shop for another soldering as I think the first was too lite although nothing went wrong. If you have a feeling that it may need more work, you should do it as that motor is mean. After that the 2400 watt generator head goes on. I have also been busy at work lately and not getting home on time so hours have been shorter. In the end it will be worth it and you will see videos and pictures as well as data.
Dana

Thanks for the report Dana.

I wrote "Leemo" because UFO would probobly pronounce it that way.
No body laughed yet.

bro d

[JohnStone]

Sorry to tell you I will postpone my MY1020 motor modification because of private issues. I will continue to watch and help at pulsers as well.
JohnS

[Lester444]

Hello UFO, all,

I didn't want to waste an opportunity for tests & measurements so I went ahead with 2 magnets initially. Will go for 4x magnets later on. I don't have suitable brushes yet so I just held the wires between my fingers and let her run. I got 6,600rpm at 3v input.

Here's a short video, pardon the poor focus: MVI_0726_mpeg4_zps5eee84ab.mp4 video by Navigator444 | Photobucket

I couldn't measure input current because my digital ammeter goes haywire with the motor. Will hook up an analog meter once I have some brushes mounted. I'm still trying to understand the rotor poles' position relative to the 2x stator poles but it's good that it spins for now.

It runs fastest with the brushes positioned as seen on the video (the pole pair's bisector is aligned with the commutator elements). It coasts along when power is removed and there's very minimal cogging from the magnets. Gap from rotor to magnet ~0.5mm. Again it's still a Torqmaster winding.

Thanks!

Lester

[Ufopolitics]

Looking Beautiful!!

Hello UFO, all,

I didn't want to waste an opportunity for tests & measurements so I went ahead with 2 magnets initially. Will go for 4x magnets later on. I don't have suitable brushes yet so I just held the wires between my fingers and let her run. I got 6,600rpm at 3v input.

Here's a short video, pardon the poor focus: MVI_0726_mpeg4_zps5eee84ab.mp4 video by Navigator444 | Photobucket

I couldn't measure input current because my digital ammeter goes haywire with the motor. Will hook up an analog meter once I have some brushes mounted. I'm still trying to understand the rotor poles' position relative to the 2x stator poles but it's good that it spins for now.

It runs fastest with the brushes positioned as seen on the video (the pole pair's bisector is aligned with the commutator elements). It coasts along when power is removed and there's very minimal cogging from the magnets. Gap from rotor to magnet ~0.5mm. Again it's still a Torqmaster winding.

Thanks!

Lester

Hello Lester,

Wow, I am impressed, looks awesome, neat, very neat!
I want you to notice...on this motors, since you are doing this "hand brush tests"...to start the motor...then start getting just one of the "wires-brushes" a bit away from commutator...just a very tiny bit...so you get a very small air gap...and watch it arc, and still spins...now have to be the exact gap though...

Also, give it a try with some Carbon Fiber brush, just like wire...


Great, and that is the Two Stators...wait till you make the Four...


Great work Lester!!

Regards


Ufopolitics

[Cornboy 555]

Lovely Green lady,

Hello UFO, all,

I didn't want to waste an opportunity for tests & measurements so I went ahead with 2 magnets initially. Will go for 4x magnets later on. I don't have suitable brushes yet so I just held the wires between my fingers and let her run. I got 6,600rpm at 3v input.

Here's a short video, pardon the poor focus: MVI_0726_mpeg4_zps5eee84ab.mp4 video by Navigator444 | Photobucket

I couldn't measure input current because my digital ammeter goes haywire with the motor. Will hook up an analog meter once I have some brushes mounted. I'm still trying to understand the rotor poles' position relative to the 2x stator poles but it's good that it spins for now.

It runs fastest with the brushes positioned as seen on the video (the pole pair's bisector is aligned with the commutator elements). It coasts along when power is removed and there's very minimal cogging from the magnets. Gap from rotor to magnet ~0.5mm. Again it's still a Torqmaster winding.

Thanks!

Lester

Hello Lester, looks to me like you had the green lady pay you a fleeting visit on your red wire, all she wants to do is get out of jail you know!.

Regards Cornboy.

[JohnStone]

Hello UFO, all,

I didn't want to waste an opportunity for tests & measurements so I went ahead with 2 magnets initially. Will go for 4x magnets later on. I don't have suitable brushes yet so I just held the wires between my fingers and let her run. I got 6,600rpm at 3v input.

Here's a short video, pardon the poor focus: MVI_0726_mpeg4_zps5eee84ab.mp4 video by Navigator444 | Photobucket

I couldn't measure input current because my digital ammeter goes haywire with the motor. Will hook up an analog meter once I have some brushes mounted. I'm still trying to understand the rotor poles' position relative to the 2x stator poles but it's good that it spins for now.

It runs fastest with the brushes positioned as seen on the video (the pole pair's bisector is aligned with the commutator elements). It coasts along when power is removed and there's very minimal cogging from the magnets. Gap from rotor to magnet ~0.5mm. Again it's still a Torqmaster winding.

Thanks!

Lester

Imressive! Wow! This result on first play!

Regarding your ammeter! You can use it though. Get a transformer (for extreme use a MOT) and short circuit the HV coil.
Insert along plus lead from PSU:
- Ammmeter
- low voltge coil of transformer
- severe capacitor to GND
- connect motor +

As the choke is lazy in matters of current change it gives your ammeter the chance to display true average current. The caps will supply sudden current request for motor.

[Lester444]

@UFO,

I did see some purple light in between brush and commutator. It is strange to me that I consistently get a lot of this purple light on the POSITIVE brush (red wire) only, none on the negative brush, even if I swap the polarity around. Nice to have an open system that allows a lot of flexibility and visibility.

Yeah I wish I had some carbon fiber for the brushes but that item is extremely expensive over here. I do have 2lbs of powdered graphite but don't know yet how to make it solid again. Perhaps some pencil lead will also work? Will try it later.


@Cornboy,

Yeah she's roaring to get out. I think she likes me!


@ JohnS,

Thanks for the tip!


Lester

[Ufopolitics]

Spark Gap

@UFO,

I did see some purple light in between brush and commutator. It is strange to me that I consistently get a lot of this purple light on the POSITIVE brush (red wire) only, none on the negative brush, even if I swap the polarity around. Nice to have an open system that allows a lot of flexibility and visibility.

Yeah I wish I had some carbon fiber for the brushes but that item is extremely expensive over here. I do have 2lbs of powdered graphite but don't know yet how to make it solid again. Perhaps some pencil lead will also work? Will try it later.


@Cornboy,

Yeah she's roaring to get out. I think she likes me!


@ JohnS,

Thanks for the tip!


Lester

Hello Lester,

Radiant could manifests in either Hot Positives or Negatives, it had to do with the Magnetic Orientation of Your Rotor (How it is wound) related to Stators and the Rotation sense...However, when you have steady brushes on...or pulse it electronically...then you may see it different.

What I was referring to...is to make a Spark Gap of any kind...it could be even a couple of old carbon brushes...sharpen the point like a pencil, and be able to adjust gap very accurately, and fixed to even a circuit board perforated Bakelite.
What I wanted you to notice, is that this type of Motors, once they are running, have a very clear arc-spark through an air gap (once all coils are charged and amperage drops, reaching a steady cruising speed)...The Spark gets to synchronize with commutator switching perfectly after a little time running it.

The only thing is that it could get really hot...and in some cases of higher amperage, the carbon small brushes could get red hot.


Yes, it is great to be able to operate this machines as open systems...


Regards


Ufopolitics