My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[Ufopolitics]

Great!

Hello UFO

Hello there Dana!

I added the two diodes on output of P1 and P15 and ran them parallel with 2540 RPM and 13 Amps.

Ok, I am assuming it was at 36V there...
Now, the Diodes, you connect them at both Positive Negative, blocking reversed currents from Motor to Batteries...right?
Mines (NTE576's) Don't hold on that much "heat"...they blow like 5V fuses on a 1000 Watts lamp...
Your Diodes get hot?

I ran the same setup with 60 volts and she did 3670 RPM and used 46 Amps. But she was screaming while running smooth and scared the cats.
Dana

Yeah, there is something wrong there Dana...it should go higher than 3670 at 60V...

Let me just ask a silly question:

Your Batteries Bank...are they same Amp/Hour rating...or are randomly a mixed up amperage/hour?

I know you wrote they were Golf Cart Batteries, 6 Volts...but same A/H rate?


Regards


Ufopolitics

[prochiro]

Hello UFO
My diodes get just warm as I put four in parallel to share the load. I use T6A100L and the diode ends are large gauge wire also. All the batteries are the same, Trojan.
Dana

[Cornboy 555]

Magnets?

Hello UFO, DANA , Hitby13kw, just a simplistic thought, is there any way to compare magnet strength between your imperials?

I remember early in the thread, that someone recieved a stator with non magnetised magnets, and maybe someone did a half ass job of magnetising your stators in the UFO kits.

UFO, bought the complete motor.

Just a thought!

Regards Cornboy.

[Ufopolitics]

RPM's at 36Volts...

Hello to All,

Ok, here is a lousy video on the 36 Volt run...
I said lousy, because once that I set Cameras, and filming scene, lights, etc...plus preparing all this set up...I kind of become a lousy speaker...

In the first part of running I did not set the Amp Meter properly on Amps...later on I fix it...
I almost forget all we were doing...

Nope, it is not Alzheimer's...

TESTING_ALL_GATES RPMS_AT_36V - YouTube

Well, the important thing here is to watch the RPM's...when I switch the different Switch Gates...

Please note one interesting thing though...
I first start with P1...Remember that RPM number...then after I turn them all off again, leaving just P1 On...it remains above its starting value...
This happens with as many ways you guys turn on then off...
This "Attribute" from Asymmetrical Machines is what makes them of higher performance when we would be pulsing all channels here independently "Timed"...by a Dead Time...

Here is the Diagram of My Connections on this Video Test:

[IMG][/IMG]


Regards


Ufopolitics

[jeffy39]

hitby13kw - very nice!

Howdy 'hitby', a later reply, but I really like your workmanship.
Wish I had seen how you started those first windings before I
did mine. I used the whole space doing 17 turns of 19ga.
Also liked your means of securing cables to brushes.
Thanx for the pics.
All hang in. jw

[Hitby13kw]

Any pics of your work?

Howdy 'hitby', a later reply, but I really like your workmanship.
Wish I had seen how you started those first windings before I
did mine. I used the whole space doing 17 turns of 19ga.
Also liked your means of securing cables to brushes.
Thanx for the pics.
All hang in. jw

Ohla jeffy39,

Thank you for the kind words on my workmanship,
we are all here to learn from each other via our failures & successes.
am most interested in your results because you also used 19ga

loved your idea back in post 4179 about using only every-other comm. segment
(that should reduce arcing & lower input current)
and will be most interested to see your work & RPM results,
it seems that UFO & machinealive are achieving 3K RPM @ 36V -
while prochiro & myself are only getting 2K RPM @ 36V

As you said, the answer may be in how we tied down the first winding.
did you take any pic's of how you did your first coil pair?

Hitby13kw

[jeffy39]

@ 'hitby13kw'

Howdy hitby,
No pics other than wound arm posted earlier.
Currently machining pedestals brush board sits on.
I put extra space between arm. and lower comm.
Then need to fabricate and mount the 8 cables.
Really looking forward to applying power to it.
Will let all know how-when it happens.
Best regards, jw

[Ufopolitics]

Let's start Diagnosing Imperial Low RPM's...TROUBLE SHOOTING PART 1

Hello to All,

I have made the video on the 12V Test Run...

IMPERIAL_RPMS_TEST_12V - YouTube

Here you guys could see clearly the differences at 12V with Prochiro's and Hitby13kw Imperial Replications...I really do not see the point/purpose of keep loading more video tests on this issue...it is obvious there is A Major difference...and I believe is better to resolve it...rather than keep uploading Higher Speed "show off" videos...unless you guys are masochists... and want me to keep "rubbing it"...

Seriously, I really do not feel good about this, that you guys, after all the work you went through...and building such nice replications...your Machines don't perform as expected...

Therefore, I have set all other projects/videos on a "stand by" status...and have been working on a "Trouble-Shooting Guide" (that applies not only to Imperial...but to all Asymmetric Machines)...where I will be hitting the most common errors that we could make, when assembling this Models, that lead to poor performance.

So, please bare with me here...since I know many of You are "beyond doubt" on making some of this "Possible Errors"...as your expertise, equipments, tooling and dedication... exempt you from making this mistakes...

I want to say...that at ANY point, I am trying to insult anyone's intelligence here...by sometimes going over "Too simple" or "Very Obvious" stuff...I just do it to MAKE SURE it is OK there...

1- Probable Cause One (Commutators-Brushes Not Fully Aligned)

[IMG][/IMG]


In this Image, I am exposing a possible error when Pressing/Mounting Commutators on Shafts, and what happens is...
You could have Commutator perfectly well aligned...but, at time of pressing it...they tend to "rotate" just a few, very small degree...This has happened to me...and MANY TIMES...so, I had to take them off and redo it ...

The other error could be on the Brushes not being perfectly aligned...this could be due to a misalignment between Brushes Boards...or ONE Brush Housing could be rotated more than the other one...

Testing/Checking for this Error...

To run a Diagnosis on this Miss-alignments (Both) is easy...

All You have to do is connect one of your gates, say P1 the Plus and Minus Input to a Continuity set Meter (preferable the beeping sound type, so your eyes could be on the detection side... )...Then observe closely the point where a commutator element starts making contact with brush...and rotate shaft smoothly...till it starts leaving contact...Now...IF beeping sound goes away/ends before reaching the end of element...you HAVE a misalignment there, either on Brushes or Commutators...

If You do not have a Laser Alignment Tool...just a Rafter Square Ruler will do...to check brushes not aligned, where one of the triangle square side would be aligned with the vertical face of one of the motor caps, as the other would be aligned with the center of the brushes.
If they are aligned, then your commutator is off by possibly half element...it is simple to "repair" this without taking everything apart...

All you have to do, is to move/rotate One Brush Cap ONLY to meet that alignment...in other words, If Brushes are Ok, then you need to get them "Not Ok"...or miss align Them, to meet the ONE commutator deviated...and this is really a "relative concept" here...Which one of the Two is the "miss aligned one...as long as they meet the required On Time.

As a matter of fact, this a "Method" to bring down your Commutation On-Times, even on a perfectly well aligned Machine without even touching/widening gaps between commutator elements.

Any misunderstandings or doubts of my explanation above...please, let me know.

2- Probable Cause Two (Weak or Uneven Strength at Magnetic Field Permanent Magnet Stators )

Now, Cornboy mentioned it could be due to weak/low magnetic field coming from your permanent magnets Stators...it could be "a possibility", and that is only "verifiable", through one of those EMF Meters...that for Higher Magnetic Fields Capacity Readings...they are really "Untouchable$$"...
However, I honestly, do not believe this could be a possibility, since Ceramic Magnets are either "Magnetized or Not Magnetized"...I know some of you guys had that problem when you received the stators Not Magnetized at ALL...but, they re sent new ones already magnetized...The Magnetization Process is either done or not done (forgotten in the production line)...so the term "weaker than other" ...I do not see it as a very "solid possibility" and in Two Different Motors apart by location and time of shipment like Prochiro and Hitby13kw...

However, If you have Two UFO Kits , it is a simple check, by swapping Stators Frames...I mean, you would really be an unlucky guy if the two machines had bad Stators...

So far..let's keep this "possibility" at a "standby status"...unless you have a way to check it...

3- Probable Cause Three (Permanent Magnet Stators out of N-S-N-S Sequence Related to my Guiding Diagram)

Another "Issue/Possibility" that happened to Machine Alive...was that the "Order" (referring to the magnetic polarity N-S-N-S Stators sequence) they installed PM stators in Frame, was different from my Motor/Diagrams (In Symmetry, it really does not matter how this alignment goes...in Asymmetry IT DOES!)... simple check by using a compass...since they do not come "polarity marked".
However, this apparently "not important" difference in the order of N-S-N-S Stators, is like rotating the whole frame, setting all your timings/bisectors away...and still seating your Imperial Stators/Frame at the Mounting Bracket.

So, when you tried to set the correct timing/rotation on your brushes....your Machine would be working on Attraction Mode...NOT Repulsion...and guys, that is a BIG Difference right there!!

I gave that "Mounting Bracket Reference" in my Diagrams and Pictures, to make sure you had the Stators positioned right.

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

FACTORY SWAPPED STATORS/MACHINE RUNNING ON ATTRACT MODE (MUCH WEAKER/SLOWER):

[IMG][/IMG]


Please check on this possibility as well...


EDIT 1:There is a slight error I made on the lower Diagram NSNS Swapped in Red Background...

The Commutator Elements P1,P8,P15,P22 are not in accordance with the respective Pairs positioning...but it does not matter...look at the way your bisectors are Firing, related to center stators bisectors...before or after? ...the brushes could be slightly adjusted and making an attraction instead of a repulsion...
Sorry that I rotated the CAD Commutators without noticing this detail...I will correct Diagram tomorrow....too late now....nite

Hope we could solve this situation ASAP...I will keep working on this Guides...and possible errors...as also displaying Solutions.

I know that running with this RPM's...you would never turn On Mecc Alte Generator Head...and I want you to beat the Sh** out of it...


Regards to All


Ufopolitics

[Cornboy 555]

Won't do that again.

Great stuff UFO, Thanks, Your the MAN.

It really is probable that the magnets are incorrecty placed in the housings.

On another note UFO, you have been hinting we may need less resistance in our coils, in the future? Please elaborate, as i am getting closer to winding my white epoxy rotor, which has given me pains in my arms and upper body after about 10 hrs of heavy duty filing to remove build up, still about another 5 hrs to go!

This S-it is like soft glass!

Regards Everyone, Cornboy.

[prochiro]

Hello UFO
As I take off the aluminum end and take out the rotor, looking down the barrel of the motor, towards where the shaft end would be, I see South at 10 o'clock. I have two motor housings and they are both this way. They look like the picture with the red background (Diagnosis 3). What is the easiest solution here. Those magnets do move but seem to chip when doing so.
Dana

[Ufopolitics]

Ok, so...there you go

Hello UFO
As I take off the aluminum end and take out the rotor, looking down the barrel of the motor, towards where the shaft end would be, I see South at 10 o'clock. I have two motor housings and they are both this way. They look like the picture with the red background (Diagnosis 3). What is the easiest solution here. Those magnets do move but seem to chip when doing so.
Dana

Hello Dana,


EDIT: No Dana, You have Stators RIGHT!...That's the way they should be...Sorry, I was going over again your description...and looking at images.

Again, my Diagrams are with shaft aiming at screen, so the aluminum housing is ON, like in the first picture of my motor...look at the red marker lines, they are south.

Yes, as per your description that seems to be your problem...
The Diagrams I have shown are looking with shaft aiming to you, but same thing as you described , except that when looking from shaft end that South Stator would be at 2 'clock...turning your watch also towards you...

No, you do not have to take magnets off!...this is simpler than that...

There are Two Ways to fix this:

1- You could just reverse polarity terminals at P1-P15, and what will happen, is that your North Coil from P1 will become South, as the South will reverse to North...same thing with P15. and of course, the way you collected polarity at Output Gates, would be reversed as well.

2-Or, You could just "switch/rename" your Input Pairs-Gates, and keep Polarity Input the same....In order that where P22 was...now becomes P1...And where P8 is, would become P15...other words, you will be feeding through your Output Gates the same way they used to Output Polarity...as your other two will keep outputting in the same polarity.

Now, what I HIGHLY recommend, is that after you do any of the two options above...without changing/adjusting timing, feed your New Input Gates , One at a Time, with just a 12V Battery!...and watch rotation sense/direction.

IF Your Motor now, runs opposite to what it used to be, meaning CW, Then you were running it on "Attraction Mode"...and you will have to move brushes passing Stators bisectors to the other side.


Let me know if you understood this part so far.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Look At My Edit On Previous Post.

Hello UFO
As I take off the aluminum end and take out the rotor, looking down the barrel of the motor, towards where the shaft end would be, I see South at 10 o'clock. I have two motor housings and they are both this way. They look like the picture with the red background (Diagnosis 3). What is the easiest solution here. Those magnets do move but seem to chip when doing so.
Dana

Hello there, Dana


So you read my EDIT in the above post...you have Stators Right according to your description...Now, watch this picture of My Motor below:

[IMG][/IMG]



You can see the aluminum housing in the back...holding brushes.

See the red marker lines in the two stators?...those are the South ones.

So, is that the way your Motors are?... right?


I got confused when you said it was just like the red diagram.


Ufopolitics

[prochiro]

Hello UFO
Let no man or woman say that you do not know your stuff. I treated my old P22 like a P! and put positive into shaft end. That makes a new p1 which is the only line hooked up. She went to 4100 RPM in a heartbeat. Motor rotation is CW. Where do I go from here.
Dana

[Ufopolitics]

Ok, We are getting there...

Hello UFO
Let no man or woman say that you do not know your stuff. I treated my old P22 like a P! and put positive into shaft end. That makes a new p1 which is the only line hooked up. She went to 4100 RPM in a heartbeat. Motor rotation is CW. Where do I go from here.
Dana

Great Dana!!


That's a Radical change in RPM's Gain... !...Man, now is even faster than mine...lol
So, definitively, your problem were not exactly the Stators...but your Pairs Bisectors were passing Stators Bisectors to run in attraction.

Now, if -For Sure- it turned CW (and I wanna make sure you understand me well) then you were on Attract Mode.
CW is when looking at Motor with shaft aiming to YOU, then putting your clock ALSO facing to YOU...Still goes CW?

I need to know, in order to prep a Diagram for your "New Alignment"...some details.


1-When You started winding P1...did you hooked the commutator element on the South Coil side?...like I show on my Winding Video Part 1?...And exactly, that element was aligned between the second and third pole from Left to Right of South Coil, and looking -again- From Shaft side aiming at you?

Just like it shows at bottom image?

[IMG][/IMG]

I NEED You to "See" where Your Coils Bisectors are...so, IF You grabbed Seven Poles per Coil, then your coil bisector would be right in the CENTER POLE, Meaning, the Fourth...counting from either side...left to right right to left...that is where your Bisector needle is for that particular Coil (NOT PAIR) no matter if North or South...same deal.


Ok, confirm this and I am making a diagram for you to go by...

[Ufopolitics]

"Seeing" Coils Magnetic Field Bisectors...

Hello to All,

Here is a Diagram, showing approximately what an Electromagnetic Field Bisector looks like...

[IMG][/IMG]

Now, to draw Image simple, I originate it from the commutator arc...but in reality they "flow" all the way to the shaft...and bend in a "Soft Open U" Shape, between North and South...in the Back Area.

But, the main Point here is that they DO Project outwards like a very fine magnetic needle right at the very Dead Center and Front Area of Coil...and from there flows all the magnetic lines of force, expanding in a Three Dimensional Space at the Armature Lamination's, where the wire is wrapped around...that would be its Core....but I really do not want to fill with lines the whole thing, as this is not an "Art Expo"...but a Technical Display...


This Needle End is our "Pointer" to time our Machines with the Stators Bisectors...As the positioning WILL Dictate which sense Rotation will occur...so it is very important that we learn "How to see them"...and in "colors" too, representing their Magnetic Polarity...


Regards to All


Ufopolitics