My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[jeffy39]

replace comm. jumpers?

Howdy UFO, All,
The good news, motor will run, but....
P1 and P8 seem to turn about 2000 rpm if polarity is reversed
and 24v applied. This is with single-segment active on comm.
It wont start with 12v. either pol.
Really surprised at how strongly it 'cogs'. I dont have a pulley
or coupler on the shaft yet. Hard to turn by hand.
P15 and P22 dont seem to work at all. I've found sometimes the
brushes dont make good contact. Ohm-meter shows .3-.4 ohms
comm. to comm. The PMs seem to be right, testing with a cheapo compas.
Would it not be a good idea to replace jumpers on comm.? Then
I could get a better comparison with what others have.
Also, did HITBY resolve his low RPM prob?
Appreciate your thots on this, thanx. jw

[Ufopolitics]

3D Only...

Would love to talk about IT any time you wish UFO, so are you saying not related to what you have taught so far, in that the rotor coil projecting N field outwards, say wound CW, would not match, CW wound stator coil as it would project N field outwards and S field inwards, creating attraction rather than repulsion?

It took me a while to recognize why was the difference on just one particular Armature...out of many...
Yes, it goes beyond just achieving a South or a North by the winding direction...it has to do with where you started winding and where it "grows" towards on the core...from front or rear of core...and still you will obtain same results...this is beyond just winding randomly, wires on top of wires...then measure resistance...but obeying other strict patterns.
But then again...once coil gets energized it repels then rotates...and that rotation changes the way it was at 180º...related to the Stator it reacted with...and you have to follow this patterns...to make it happen the whole 360º Quadrant...The Rotor that worked out... was the Star of David winding...

If this is not what you mean ,Could you please elaborate my Friend. Just a simple diagram would be great, and is worth a thousand words to me.

I have tried to show this differences in a 2D Drawing...but there is "Perspective Confusion" when you look at a 2D Coil trying to "make believe" is in 3D...
In order to really "see" this Effect...I will have to make it in a 3D CAD-MAYA animated video...and run a Camera around coils so you guys see the differences...trust me...is the only way to understand this...but I find it fascinating.

I was truely amazed with your video of pulsed fiberglass stator, where the rotor turned without any hot being supplied. I have seen small water pump motors with AC stator and PM rotor do that, but your rotor was wound.

There is certainly a lot of work to do yet, i agree, and intend, to see it through to Reality

Thanks UFO,

Warm Regards Cornboy.

Yes it is a lot of research to be done here...we are just the Pioneers in this Open Source small Community making replications and R&D on this...when we will get there?...will we ever see a full development of this?

I don't know my friend...only time will tell.

Warm regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Two Segments...

Howdy UFO, All,
The good news, motor will run, but....
P1 and P8 seem to turn about 2000 rpm if polarity is reversed
and 24v applied. This is with single-segment active on comm.

Hello there Jeffy,

I believe Machine Alive stated that his Imperial will turn too slow (something very close to yours) when he used just one commutator element...do you remember ?

It wont start with 12v. either pol.
Really surprised at how strongly it 'cogs'. I dont have a pulley
or coupler on the shaft yet. Hard to turn by hand.

It is very hard to turn it straight from its shaft...

P15 and P22 dont seem to work at all. I've found sometimes the
brushes dont make good contact. Ohm-meter shows .3-.4 ohms
comm. to comm. The PMs seem to be right, testing with a cheapo compas.

Definitively you have a brush contact problem there... weak or no contact at all.

Check continuity on each gate, mainly on P15-P22...while rotating Shaft....if it goes open for a few segments...then brush board needs to be aligned because it could be off-centered ...check mating brushes for each gate...if they are in perfect line...

Push Brushes towards outside while opening spring...and lock them by its own spring (no need to take them out completely)...so you could measure the distance from brush brass housing end and commutator surface...All of them MUST have the SAME distance aprox.

This Motor when is braking in (new) arcs a lot more since brushes are flat...so getting too close the brass housing will arc on brass ...not good!...so check for arcing black smoke marks on brass housings...

Would it not be a good idea to replace jumpers on comm.? Then
I could get a better comparison with what others have.
Also, did HITBY resolve his low RPM prob?
Appreciate your thots on this, thanx. jw

Yes , get the two elements per Pair/Comm (not just one) but like all of Us here...it should work fine once you resolve the mechanical issue.

Btw...I love that Resistance!!...it must run easy on 12V!

Hitby was taking apart the whole thing (rewinding it again)...I have not heard from Him since then...
Regards


Ufopolitics

[jeffy39]

wilco

Howdy UFO, thanx for reply and suggestions.
I must have forgotten or missed Mac.Alive's post.
I noticed some dark spots in middle of comm. segments.
Could be getting brass-arc. Will have to 'break-it-down'
to put jumpers in, will inspect brush board carefully.
Thanx for all, jw

[Ufopolitics]

Howdy UFO, thanx for reply and suggestions.
I must have forgotten or missed Mac.Alive's post.
I noticed some dark spots in middle of comm. segments.
Could be getting brass-arc. Will have to 'break-it-down'
to put jumpers in, will inspect brush board carefully.
Thanx for all, jw

Hello,

Yes, those dark spots between contacting comm elements are normal...(not From brass) even after you widen gaps...
That happens as coils are leaving contact...energy Tries to "jump back" at where it was...not To the one coming.

My pleasure


Ufopolitics

[Cornboy 555]

Hmmmm.

It took me a while to recognize why was the difference on just one particular Armature...out of many...
Yes, it goes beyond just achieving a South or a North by the winding direction...it has to do with where you started winding and where it "grows" towards on the core...from front or rear of core...and still you will obtain same results...this is beyond just winding randomly, wires on top of wires...then measure resistance...but obeying other strict patterns.
But then again...once coil gets energized it repels then rotates...and that rotation changes the way it was at 180º...related to the Stator it reacted with...and you have to follow this patterns...to make it happen the whole 360º Quadrant...The Rotor that worked out... was the Star of David winding...



I have tried to show this differences in a 2D Drawing...but there is "Perspective Confusion" when you look at a 2D Coil trying to "make believe" is in 3D...
In order to really "see" this Effect...I will have to make it in a 3D CAD-MAYA animated video...and run a Camera around coils so you guys see the differences...trust me...is the only way to understand this...but I find it fascinating.



Yes it is a lot of research to be done here...we are just the Pioneers in this Open Source small Community making replications and R&D on this...when we will get there?...will we ever see a full development of this?

I don't know my friend...only time will tell.

Warm regards


Ufopolitics

Well UFO, the MAG3 rotor will need to be wound with 36 pairs in a spiral Yes? Can it be wound different?, Star of david?

Also the last thing i will do to complete motor is wind stators, as they are external and easy to remove and replace, (on purpose) so some time to think about it hey!

Thanks, Cornboy.

[Ufopolitics]

Not about the "Stars"...

Well UFO, the MAG3 rotor will need to be wound with 36 pairs in a spiral Yes? Can it be wound different?, Star of david?

Also the last thing i will do to complete motor is wind stators, as they are external and easy to remove and replace, (on purpose) so some time to think about it hey!

Thanks, Cornboy.

Hey Cornboy,

It is not about the winding configuration either...It just happened that the one that did the effect was that star...but it is not about the winding design...so please no, don't change that configuration you have!
Precisely and perfectly...the Stators would get to be wound as the Rotor Coils...so the rotor you do it the way it is supposed to go...just keep the convention I have been displaying.

Start winding from the connecting shaft side as all your positive Inputs...as per diagram.
See your winding is the "P" Type...so it is same as Imperial, except for number of Pairs you will have...plus the positioning of the contact element related to the Pair...and that is just a bit different from Imperial, since you have six stators at 60º, as six brushes...that changes "the picture" a bit.

[IMG][/IMG]

In that Diagram it shows you clearly where P1 Comm Element goes related to the disposition of Pair Coils N1 and S1
I have set P1 element-brush to contact, exactly at 12 o´clock...and that element coincides with the second slot (from left to right) of the South 1 from P1 (very similar to Imperial, same slot, different South Coil position)...So...Don't even look at stators now...this is when you are winding rotor by itself.

Understand this right?

Hope so...

Regards friend


Ufopolitics

[Cornboy 555]

Yep.

Yeah, got it, Thanks UFO.

Regards Friend,

Cornboy.

[Zardox]

In my last post I was just trying to make a point. And I know that we had discussed it all before so please forgive me for bringing it up again. I know as an end result that we need the control circuits to vary the load. What I was refering to was using what was at hand to prove the concept on a stable load. Now I will gladly let it rest.

[Ace_Propulsion]

Hello Ace_Propulsion,

Here is the promised Diagram, any questions?...have your Check Book ready/No Credit Cards accepted...

[IMG][/IMG]

Connection 1 is the same as the one Dana posted...Ec=The Witch/The 'Forced' B EMF originated by Symmetry Forced (not Natural) Reversal.
Connection 2 has no output...energy generated is used to internally feed armature diminishing Amperage Draw to "Nickels and Dimes"...While Motor Performance (Speed/Torque) will not reduce at all....OMG...WTF¿?!...¿?

Please realize we can do all this External Connections while we are operating Machine (Through switches or electronically guided by sensors)...say a Power Drill...Low Battery?...go on Connection 2...say it is a "Kind" of an "Econo-Drive"...

Need to Operate an LED Light to see what you are Drilling?...Go Connection 1...

And so on and on and on...The Energizer Pink Bunny Rabbit will turn "Crispy and very well done"...


Cheers


Ufopolitics

Hello UFO,

Short the generator?! OMG! I must be silly again(I'm a rookie)

Your diagram HELPED ME A LOT. It worked on my 3V, 3 pole Asymm motor(2*AA batt power).The connection wasn't good, so I gonna use carbon(graphite)brushes tomorrow.

A few questions:

What's the diffrence between these connections? Typical, Connection1 & 2
In my opinion Typical is used as a COP>1 generator in "Face to face connection mode"
Connection 1 gets 20V, COP=1.8?? Is that correct??

And what about Connection 2:minimum amp draw. Output mechanical COP>1?

P.S:I got a problem in this forum on yesterday. Every time when I tried to log in, it kept jumped to index page(http://www.energeticforum.com/) and I can't get logged in.(You could see this reply on yesterday if there's no problem. Sorry for that!)

Cheers

[Hitby13kw]

Hitby was taking apart the whole thing (rewinding it again)...I have not heard from Him since then...

UFO,


Hope you’re not to disappointed in my going to the rewinding extreme, wanted to take this opportunity to investigate another aspect of this tech. Before cannibalizing the motor I did try adjusting both endplates (as you suggested and can see in this pic) https://www.dropbox.com/s/ribkktoqtaffabl/SAM_0091.JPG that did work (as you knew it would) You know your tech !!!

After several tests with that adjustment we went with the rewinding bit, currently we are half way done with the rewind https://www.dropbox.com/s/ra3yvkeddiqyrfx/SAM_0095.JPG
But then life called my attention away from my favorite activity and I’ll be unable to continue work for about a week.
Hope to report more soon.

Warm regards

Hitby13kw

[sampojo]

brush plate out of kilter

an itsy-bit. Kind of a small motor for 8 brushes maybe. Hard to get any kind of precision going. All eyeball, as you struggle with super glue on the finger tips. Coated with epoxy too and those babies aren't coming off for nobody. So here is a pic.



How do they look? They seem about 5 degrees here and there, looks like one will hit a segment about a mil before the opposite brush. Should I grind off the mounting plate and try again? Maybe just the lower one, it's the worst.

[Ufopolitics]

550 Body Motor Dual Pentagon Winding

Hello to All,


DUAL PENTAGONS/550 MOTOR BODY TESTING - YouTube


Enjoy


Ufopolitics

[Cornboy 555]

Impressive UFO, Impressive.

Thanks Cornboy.

[Ace_Propulsion]

Hello Ace_Propulsion,

Here is the promised Diagram, any questions?...have your Check Book ready/No Credit Cards accepted...

[IMG][/IMG]

Connection 1 is the same as the one Dana posted...Ec=The Witch/The 'Forced' B EMF originated by Symmetry Forced (not Natural) Reversal.
Connection 2 has no output...energy generated is used to internally feed armature diminishing Amperage Draw to "Nickels and Dimes"...While Motor Performance (Speed/Torque) will not reduce at all....OMG...WTF¿?!...¿?

Please realize we can do all this External Connections while we are operating Machine (Through switches or electronically guided by sensors)...say a Power Drill...Low Battery?...go on Connection 2...say it is a "Kind" of an "Econo-Drive"...

Need to Operate an LED Light to see what you are Drilling?...Go Connection 1...

And so on and on and on...The Energizer Pink Bunny Rabbit will turn "Crispy and very well done"...


Cheers


Ufopolitics

Hello UFO,

This is my understanding

Connection 1:voltage multified 1.8 but due to energy loss to run the motor. The COP can't always higher than 1. Two condition should be met(1:low mechanical friction. 2:Adequate load(neither too high nor too low))
Connection 2:Powerful energy-saving motor, mechanical COP=1.8

The fun stuff : If you use connection 1 to charge a battery. Then swap batteries. Repeat several times. You'll get both bateries charged.

Regards