Open discussion for projects on this forum.

[dR-Green]

This is a general response, not to or about any particular person or thread.

Farmhand said on another thread:

If there are any shills in this situation it is you. Forget attacking me and
address the issues raised. Or not, makes no difference to me but when you
attack me personally it shows the shill likeness in full shining light. Grow up.

Cheers

P.S. Who addressed you anyway Barbosi ? Who made you the detector of "shills" ?

Farmhand is right. The shills are the "yea sayers". They are the cheerleaders who rally up support and excitement regardless of whether the team is useless or not.

Their job doesn't involve being concerned with the team's performance, they are simply there to excite the supporters and attract new supporters.

Got no results, nothing of value whatsoever? Never fear! Call the cheerleaders. They will transform the discussion from a single post (claim) into hundreds of pages.

The moment someone makes a new claim, anything that involves "free energy", these people are immediately there to support it and fend off anyone who asks a question. What do these people know about it that the rest of humanity don't?

They get people to waste their time on useless rubbish through being "enthusiastic" about it, "encouraging" people to spend their time and effort on it, when they have no idea whatsoever of the reality of the claims. These people DO NOT do their own experiments, they simply encourage other people to waste their time and money on it.

They attack anyone who has any doubts or ask for some proof. Asking questions is not allowed.

Is there any proof for ANYTHING that has ever been claimed on these forums, or any other? And yet the ones who ask for proof or evidence are supposed to be the shills?

These people do more harm than good (of course, depending on one's perception and the purpose of their cheer leading). If something doesn't work, then it doesn't work. Insisting "yes, it does work!" when in fact it never can or will simply wastes everyone's time and turns the whole thing into a circus which no serious scientist or engineer will ever come near. So it leads one to suspect that this is in fact their intention.

Therefore it can clearly be seen that the "yea sayers" are the real shills, but they like to twist it around and accuse the honest researcher, the ones who ask for scientific proof and evidence, of being the shill in order to divert people from the issue at hand. The "nay sayers" they say. As if the one who asks for proof is trying to suppress it? Where is the logic in that? Have these "yea sayers" even thought it through?

But now we know why they can only say "yea" so it doesn't matter. The truth of everything is revealed through simple observation of patterns, behaviour.

[citfta]

I agree with dR-Green almost 100%. I would only disagree that there is no evidence for ANY of the projects on this forum. There are some projects on this forum that have been replicated by several people and they also got interesting results. And there will always be some people that no matter how strong the evidence will refuse to believe in anything that goes against what they want to believe. But I most certainly agree this forum is overrun with cheerleaders that jump on any new idea without any proof or evidence the idea is worth anything. The fascinating part to me is how few of them will even take the time to do some basic study or hands-on research to try and verify or dispute the new idea. I agree it appears their only goal is to mislead serious researchers and promote the snake-oil salesmen to distract everyone they can. Time and time again I have seen threads on this forum where the researchers were starting to make some progress and all of a sudden here come a bunch of new ideas thrown out and false cheerleaders to derail the serious efforts that were making progress.

Respectfully, Carroll

[dR-Green]

I would only disagree that there is no evidence for ANY of the projects on this forum. There are some projects on this forum that have been replicated by several people and they also got interesting results.

Yes I suppose there are interesting things that work. But I have yet to see anything that resembles what the cheerleaders claim or support; in basic terms, machines or circuits that run themselves from energy sprouted out of nothing. And if you point out obvious things that give you free energy (no user input) then they call you a shill, they insist on searching for some magical source while ignoring what's already there. Interestingly the most promising things tend to get the least attention. It's all buried under a big pile of rubbish which is put there by the cheerleaders. Maybe a thread of "recommended" projects would be a good idea, with things that only get nominated after a satisfactory amount of evidence is provided.

[Turion]

A Plan

The simplest and easiest way to control both the cheerleaders and the naysayers would be to create an environment where no one was allowed to post a comment until they had shown they had actually BUILT the device in question and had it running, or at least had all the components in place so someone could HELP you get it running.

Once the device is on your bench, you should be allowed to comment on whether it is working or just a piece of junk. There are some of us who would have NO PROBLEM with such a restriction.

Dave

[Farmhand]

Hi Turion, The only problem with excluding non builders is that it creates a venue
where only biased views exist, people who can see there cannot possibly be
something come from nothing or the thinking is flawed will not build a thing they
know will not do as is claimed due to the Laws of Nature. But with your plan
they cannot comment. Most of us who have an alternate point that is valid
will take the time to explain how we see it and give reasoning, without resorting
to personal attacks or character assassination attempts.

ie. I might go to all the trouble of formulating a large post so as not to offend
anyone too much. And in return for my efforts I get personal abuse with no
foundation in reality, that are clear violations of the site rules, rarely is action
taken or the abuse made to be removed.

Now if we all behaved as some of the abusive yea-sayers do the site would
be a cesspool of abuse and filth.

In my humble opinion most are here for the wrong reasons, gotluc says he
won't be posting much more because he has been offered work on the "technology" he is promoting.

Post number 64.
Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share

I put it to all that maybe he was paid to promote and push Thanes
theories before he made the posts and that was the motive of the posts.
He has been pushing Thanes theories for a while, kinda like the guy
OverUnityguide, that did the same thing.

If that was true (not saying it is) then that would fit the definition of a paid shill.

It's madness, any reactive power produced originates from the supply and is
paid for, the power levels shown could probably be the result of one degree
off on measurement. Or simple measurement hardware calibration errors ect.
And any power dissipated by a load is "real power" by definition.

It is simply fiddling the apparatus under test and the test equipment to show
what they want it to, I've done it myself to see it with my own eyes. I can
show what appears to be Over 100% efficiency with a scope considering
power factor/phase angle as well but it is simple a low power measurement problem.

Up the power and lower the load resistance and see if the trend continues.

People want to use thousands of watts of power in a convenient way, a watt
or three cannot even charge a car battery properly, it is of little consequence
and prone to measurement error magnification. When I pass gas I probably
dissipate more than 3 Watts of power.

And encouraging people to experiment with the grid power without any
warnings is irresponsible and ludicrous.

In my opinion there is a strong chance the thread is an attempt to regain
some credibility for Thanes stuff. How many years will he string people along
with no one demonstration of any reasonable amount of power shown as
above 100% total efficiency.

Gotoluc should have used a few more terms like "in my opinion" or "it is my belief",
rather than stating almost everything as though it is a fact and already
proven beyond doubt, don't question or think, just believe. That is what
sheeple do. Prudent discussion involves valid questions.

It's a dangerous and slippery slope to exclude fair comment and only allow
biased input to threads.

Cheers

[Turion]

Farmhand,
How do you KNOW something won't work unless you build it. Yes, you BELIEVE it won't work based on knowledge and accumulated experience, but KNOW it won't work??? I don't think so. If you're going to take the attitude that something won't work based on accumulated knowledge and prior experience, it is fortunate you were not there when Columbus petitioned to explore the new world, or the Wright brothers first dreamed of flight. I don't know how many times in my life I have been told "That won't work" by people who "KNEW" it wouldn't, and I proved them wrong.

If someone builds something thy say works, it should be up to the people that replicate it to judge whether they have something or are full of crap. If you choose NOT to replicate it because it seems too far fetched to you, well brother, that's your choice. But I still don't believe we should have to listen to people who haven't built it tell us why it won't work. NEITHER do I believe we should have to listen to a bunch of cheer leaders goading us on to spend our money. Those of us who actually build and test this stuff usually look at what the person building it has to say, their results, and decide for ourselves whether or not to build it. All this hype against and FOR different builds is a load of crap and I wish it was eliminated from these threads. They should be for the builders and the testers, and not for the "experts." Because I would be willing to bet that when a major breakthrough comes, it will not be from some "expert." The "experts" never DO ANYTHING. They just talk. It will be from some guy who was told "That won't work." who just flat refused to give up.

Dave

[Matthew Jones]

The fact that the idiot Farmhand says it won't work is becoming more of reason to look into anything. The idiot Farmhand doesn't seem to be able to make anything work.
That says a lot for the idiot Farmhand.

Matt

[shylo]

Distraction from the thread

That's the real shill.
artv

[shylo]

Resistance

Hi Carroll, In the flywheel analogy, that deals with centrifical force , which is expended. With the movement of the magnetic field , there is a rise and fall.
I don't see how resistance can be helpful.?
Like I said I just don't know.
I thought the coils I wound to drive my motor would produce the best push, and they do .But they don't collapse fast enough , before reversal of flow to continue on. As they travel the PM field reverses.
Does resistance allow you to control , the rise and fall??
artv

[citfta]

HI shylo,

Yes the resistance does allow you some control over how fast the field collapses. To get the field to collapse quickly you have to have a control circuit that can turn off quickly with no where for the current to go or at least a path of high resistance for the current to flow through. If you can post a schematic of what you are doing maybe I can see some things that will help you to get better performance from your motor. I worked on motors and motor control circuits for many years. And maybe a picture of your set-up too. I will be glad to try and help in any way I can. Do you have a scope so you can look at what is going on?

I know the idea of a higher resistance speeding up the collapse of the magnetic field seems backwards. But we have to remember the magnetic field is only a function of the current flowing through the coil. If we allow that current to continue through a low resistance the field will collapse slowly. If we don't allow that current to have anyplace to go then the field has to collapse. But at the same time the voltage will go higher as the energy is converted from current to voltage.

Later, Carroll

[shylo]

Just in the process

Hi Carroll,
I've wound many motors ,and am currently trying this idea ..see attached
I'm hoping the field collapses will enhance the generating coils.
But I'm having problems with lock-up.
I'm not good at explaining , but maybe the pics will help.

[citfta]

Hi shylo,

I think I see what you are doing. Let me explain so if I have it wrong you can correct me. I want to make sure I am understanding what you are trying to do. You have modified an auto alternator by replacing the rotor windings with magnets. And now you want to run it as a motor/generator. And you are wanting to collect the collapse of the field from the drive coils and use that to help the generator side. Do you have a schematic or drawing of your control circuit? You mentioned problems with lock up and I am wondering how you are controlling when the drive coils turn on and off. They have to be timed to the position of the rotor if you are using permanent magnets on the rotor. Please post a sketch of your control circuit so I can get a better idea of the whole system. Then we can talk about what we can do to make it work better. I have used optical sensors and hall effect sensors to monitor my rotor position on my window motor as it also has permanent magnets on the rotor. I also used the original trigger windings but I didn't like the lack of control I had using trigger windings. These are just some ideas of how you can control the coils in relation to the position of the rotor.

Later, Carroll

[Farmhand]

Figuera device has external input marked and explained.

Hi Carroll and all, I was looking into the Figuera device and first I must say
anyone is allowed to research this, it doesn't belong to anybody.

OK so I found some key words and Phrases which I think are missed.

This page contains a few links as well as these words. Sorry for such big
Quotes but to get things in context I think it's necessary.

Source link
El enigma de Clemente Figuera y la máquina de la energĂ*a infinita - TecnologĂ*a Obsoleta

Some key words and phrases are in bold and italics.

DESCRIPTION GENERATOR variable excitation "FIGUERA"
The machine is formed by a fixed inductor circuit, consisting of several electromagnets cores soft iron exert induction in the armature circuit, also fixed and immovable, composed of several reels or coils, conveniently placed . Since none of the two circuits have to turn, no need to make them round, or leaving a space between each other.
Here, it is constantly changing the intensity of the excitation current which magnetizes the excitatory electromagnets and this is achieved using a resistor through which an appropriate current, which is taken from an outside source magnetizes any one or more electromagnets, and, as the resistance will be higher or lower, the magnetization of the magnets will vary slowing or increasing and therefore, the intensity of the magnetic field, ie the flow through the armature circuit.
To fix ideas is advisable make use of the accompanying figure is merely a drawing to understand the operation of the machine that is built according to the principle outlined above.
Suppose that it is represented by the electromagnets and the N rectangles S. Its poles induced circuit represented by the line "and" (small) is. Let "R" resistor that is drawn in an elementary way to facilitate understanding of the entire system, and "+" and "-" the driving current is taken from a foreign and strange to the machine generator. The different pieces of the resistance will stop, as shown in the drawing to the segments embedded in a cylinder of insulating material that does not move, but around him and always in contact with more than one tour a brush thin "O" current carrying foreign origin. One end of the resistance is linked to the N and the other electromagnets electromagnets S half of the ends of the parts of the resistance goes to half of the segments of the cylinder and the other half of said tangs is attached directly to the first.

The operation of the machine is as follows: it is said that the brush "O" turns around the cylinder "G" and always in contact with two of his tangs. When in contact with the thin "1" the current from the generator and passes through the thin brush and "1", will magnetize to the N electromagnets Maximun No S because it prevents any resistance, so that the electromagnets are filled first and second current gaps. When the blade is in contact with the thin "2" will not stream the entire N electromagnets because it has to go through some of the resistance, but instead goes to the electrodes S and some power because it has to overcome less resistance than above. This same reasoning applies to the case where the brush "O" close the circuit and each of the different laminations until I finished those in a semicircle begin to operate the other semicircle that are directly connected to each other. In short, the resistance makes the job of a current distributor, since that will not excite electromagnets excites others and so on, can be said that the N and S electrodes act simultaneously and in opposite direction because while the first van filling current are emptied seconds and repeating this effect immediately and orderly constant alteration in the magnetic fields within which is placed the armature circuit, without complications is maintained that the rotation of a brush or group of brushes which move circumferentially around the cylinder "G" by the action of an electric motor.

Second source for quote below.
http://www.alpoma.com/figuera/patente_1908.pdf

DESCRIPTION OF GENERATOR OF VARIABLE EXCITACION
“FIGUERA”
The machine comprise a fixed inductor circuit, consisting of several
electromagnets with soft iron cores exercising induction in the induced circuit,
also fixed and motionless, composed of several reels or coils, properly
placed. As neither of the two circuits spin, there is no need to make them
round, nor leave any space between one and the other.
Here what it is constantly changing is the intensity of the excitatory current
which drives the electromagnets and this is accomplished using a resistance,
through which circulates a proper current, which is taken from one foreign
origin into one or more electromagnets, magnetize one or more
electromagnets and, while the current is higher or lower the magnetization of
the electromagnets is decreasing or increasing and varying, therefore, the
intensity of the magnetic field , this is, the flow which crosses the induced
circuit.

The operation of the machine is as follows: it has been said that the brush
“O” rotates around the cylinder “G” and always in contact with two of their
contacts. When the brush is in touch with contact “1″ the current, which
comes from the external generator and passes through the brush and
contact “1″, will magnetize electromagnets N

What I see when I look at the device pictured at the bottom of this page El enigma de Clemente Figuera y la máquina de la energĂ*a infinita - TecnologĂ*a Obsoleta
is the negative input is connected to where the negative symbol - is at the
top of the drawing, also marked as Origin or (source).

And the positive of the input is connected to the point marked + for positive
which is in the center of the "distributer", (the round part at the bottom has a + marked in it's center for the positive DC input).

Those two points are where the input from the external generator of electrical
energy, ie. an atmospheric generator or a set of batteries charged by whatever, maybe free energy.

However to my eyes the input is obvious and is spelled out in words.

In my opinion the device is simply a rotary switch - resistor divider type inverter thingy.

Anyone else agree with that ?

Cheers

P.S. One way to look at it is like in the sketch I made attached below.

..

[shylo]

Control circut

Carroll, I don't have a circuit . When I wire up a motor , I just test where the best position is by setting the rotor in different positions ,and connect the power just for an instant. This allows me to see how much travel or rotation I get.
Then I add the com. and set my brush contacts there.
But this might not work because the travel is being stopped by the next opposite pole, before the initial burst of power can be reversed.
So when I reverse the flow ,the rotor hasn't travelled far enough from the first burst to be in the proper position.
I wound that stator several times ,but kept getting shorts, so I resorted to using coated wire from phone cords, so maybe there not enough turns to create a strong enough field?
Farmhand, I was going to agree ,but then you lost me with your drawing.
artv

[citfta]

Hi Farmhand,

I think you may be correct. It could certainly be a semi-mechanical inverter. The only moving part being the brushes as they move from segment to segment. The problem with a lot of the people that have gotten into this hobby or in some cases more than a hobby have not had any training and assume they know what some terms mean when they really don't. For instance they assume a "self-exciting" generator somehow can run itself. In the electrical trade "self-exciting" means the generator fields are produced by the rotation of the generator instead of the fields needing to be powered by an outside source. It does NOT mean the generator can run itself. Something still has to turn the generator. The old auto generators were self-exciting. You started turning them and they produced electricity. The modern auto alternators are not self-exciting. You have to apply power to the rotor winding to get any power from the stator. I think all the excitement over the Figuera patents is a case of people just not understanding the meaning of the terms used to describe the operation of his device. His device is an interesting idea for a non-solid-state device that could turn DC into AC. It might be real handy if there was some type of EMP or solar burst that killed a lot of the electronic inverters. With a good solar or wind generator set-up you could still have power providing the EMP didn't also destroy the solar panels. Hmmm I wonder how solar panels would stand up to an EMP or solar burst? I wonder if anyone even knows? Well I am starting to ramble so I'll end this.

Later, Carroll