Open discussion for projects on this forum.

[citfta]

Hi shylo,

Do you prefer shylo or your signature which is artv? Anyway I have been studying your picture and sketch. I have some questions for you. Do you have the same number of drive coils as you have magnetic poles on the rotor? And do you have the coils connected so that every other one is the same polarity and the ones in between are the opposite polarity? In other words your coils have to match the poles of the rotor except to get rotation the coils have to either attract or repel the rotor. You need to turn them all on with half of them being opposite polarity and then reversing the power after the rotor gets near the next coil. I hope that made sense. I also think you will have to use magnet wire (the enamel covered wire) in order to get any good results. It can be a pain to wind but it is the only way to get enough wire into the slots to have a strong magnetic field. I think you may be able to get it to run with what you have but the results won't really mean a lot because of the weak field produced.

As for Farmhand's drawing I think he is showing a way to use the Figuera device. The tall hill or tower is a way to collect some power and then use that to power the Figuera device. You can collect some pretty high voltage from a tall tower or a high hill. Tesla was very familiar with that idea. The current is usually pretty small but the Figuera device may have been designed to convert the high voltage at low current into a lower voltage higher current AC in order for the power to be usable.

See ya, Carroll

[Farmhand]

Hi Shylo, Carroll got it, I was just showing one possible way to get DC for
free to use to power the device.

I think the problem came from the word "generator", you see a generator can
be a generator of electricity or it could be a generator of soap bubbles or a
generator of a certain sound, generators can be anything.

In the case of Figuera I think he made a generator of Alternating Current, or
in modern language an inverter, Hard to say if he got nice neat sine waves
but if he did it could be said his device was a generator of sine wave
electricity or something.

Thing to remember is that the word generator is often very misused.

A diesel generator does not generate diesel, nor does a petrol generator
generate petrol, they are diesel and petrol powered electricity generators.
An air compressor can be a compressed air generator. A wave form generator
generates wave forms.

The key point is I don't see that the words ever described a free energy
machine and yet look at all the supposedly smart people who heap abuse on
anyone who says anything that does not fit the hype they whip up.

Cheers

P.S. It seems as though some people expect to spin the rotary switch and somehow
the device will output copious AC electricity while having no input. Baloney I say.

Anyone with a practical understanding of electricity would immediately see what the device does.

The negative of the input is connected to circuit ground and the positive input is switched through the resistors
to vary the intensity of the exciting current through one set of coils (two sets in parallel) so that the resulting induction
of the second set of coils produces an AC output.

Now if people want to experiment with whatever they like they have every right to do so.
But we that have a different and maybe correct opinion also have the right to say what we see.

Thanks to this wonderful and useful thread Carroll makes it possible for me to say my piece without upsetting anyone.

Thanks very much Carroll. I think I covered almost everything I wanted to cover on this particular subject.

People ought to take a good look at the people involved in these misunderstandings and wonder if they really
know what they say they know or if they purposefully spin up hype for some ungodly reason.
I'm referring to the ones who purport to know so much but never produce anything much to back up the hype they spin up.

My advice is take some time and ask for opinions so that people do not waste so much time on things that are easily explained.

I'm not saying no one should experiment with whatever they like, I'm simply saying if big claims are made people get sucked into the hype,
then we ought to expect to see some apologies when it turns out people were led up the garden path and wasted their money and time
on something that was never intended to be what they claim of it.

How long is long enough, 1 year, two years or 5 years, when will the instigators of the hype admit they were mistaken. Never ?

I ask that people consider that some people get sucked in by the hype, and the more people that buy into the hype the more get sucked in
then when they find out they were duped they just fade away and don't say anything about being duped because it is embarrassing to them.

What is truly worrying is the venom and filth directed at people who try to give an alternative explanation of the situation.

Maybe many expected me to get all upset at the filth and abuse and give up, but I will not I have too much free will to ignore what I think is the right thing to do,
which is tell people how I see things, the abuse is nothing but justification and motivation. It makes me more determined.
I say bring it on, but not here in this thread, this thread is for logical discussion and respectful dialogue. A situation of civilized discourse.

Consciousness Science Kept Hidden - YouTube

..

[shylo]

Wire connections

I just finished my second set of coils, their hard to see but are wrapped in electrical tape (their every other one). I did a wave winding like in the Lockridge device.
Carroll, , I am going to try and drive the rotor with this set of coils, since there are four strands of wire per turn , should I parralell them or series them like a quad-filar coil??
If I get it running will the coils being fed power ,to drive the rotor, act like a transformer, which in turn will induce the second set of windings since it is a laminated stator core?
The further I go the more questions I get ,....
Farmhand ,I still am not understanding what your talking about.
I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer.
artv

[citfta]

Hi shylo,

If you connect your coils in parallel they will draw more current and require a lower voltage. If you connect them in series you will need a much higher voltage but much lower current. So it will depend on how much voltage and current you have to run the motor. Since the thicker insulation of the wire you are using limits how much wire you can get into the slots of the stator I think you will probably need to connect them in series to help keep the current down. Either way I think you are going to have problems with the kind of wire you are using. As far as the generator coils go, yes they should pick up some power from the motor coils just like a transformer does. In fact a lot of modern motors are called induction motors because the windings on the armature are only powered by the transformer action from the field coils. There is no connection from the armature to any external source of power. Of course this only works if the field coils are powered by AC or pulsing DC.

Good luck on your motor,
Carroll

[erfinder]

Hello citfta,

Thanks for inviting me to your thread.

Wardforce, we all know what it is. If Mr. Ward is trying to demonstrate something outside of what is already well established remains to be seen. The ball is in his court on this. I patiently await a disclosure from him which separates Wardforce from the well known and documented acceleration under load phenomena once and for all.

As its been pointed out, the acceleration under load effect is primarily centered around the high inductance, high resistance coil systems. I have found that high inductance isn't always necessary, and for that reason I took the time and looked into Mr. Wards claims, as I think he may have something, however, because he is not able to demonstrate the effect without the iron, I doubt we are talking about the same thing, time will tell.

Several patents have been granted which illustrate devices which when built all develop the acceleration or zero to ultra low Lenz associated drag, all incorporate the use of iron, save one.

Low frequency based acceleration under load without the need for iron should be a common goal (my opinion). How do we get this phenomena to manifest in low inductance, low resistance systems?

Regards

[Matthew Jones]

Hello citfta,
Low frequency based acceleration under load without the need for iron should be a common goal (my opinion). How do we get this phenomena to manifest in low inductance, low resistance systems?
Regards

I have not seen it done without Iron. Impedance come in several forms. Both through electrical resistance in the windings and Magnetic resistance in the Iron.

Anybody interested should read through JL Naudins tests The Delayed Lenz Effect exploration and tests. Read all of it, he has come up with some interesting stuff revealed from history.

Matt

[erfinder]

I have not seen it done without Iron. Impedance come in several forms. Both through electrical resistance in the windings and Magnetic resistance in the Iron.

Anybody interested should read through JL Naudins tests The Delayed Lenz Effect exploration and tests. Read all of it, he has come up with some interesting stuff revealed from history.

Matt

Hi Matt,

Like you I value my time and my work, I have learned from several of you regarding posting your hard work only to see it abused. With that said, I have achieved acceleration under load without iron. If you are interested we should connect, I would like to show you.

Regards

[shylo]

Time

I wish I could take the time and read all of the valid info. out there,...it's just not there.(the time that is)
I'm trying to collapse the field,(which in turn creates an opposite field) and by the time this happens ,were seeing an opposite magnetic field, thereby assisting in rotation.
Carroll , your last post helped in my understanding. Thank-you.
Farmhand, I've reread your posts' ..Resistance can create a more abrupt existence of the magnetic field ,because the supply gets used up as heat?
Still testing the fields of my core ,and yes Carroll my motor will suffer due to the wire I'm using, but all my stuff is salvaged , and every wire I tried ,caused shorts to the core.
I'm gonna try a four brush set-up, 2 to drive , 2 to collect, but use them in a cascading effect where they assist each other.
Thank-you all.
artv

[citfta]

Hi shylo,

An idea you might try to keep your wires from shorting to the slots is to first put a couple of layers of plumbers tape in the slots before you wind the magnet wire into the slots. This tape is pretty tough and is very thin. It won't take up much room at all and would allow you to use regular magnet wire that you can salvage from something else. If you get a shorted turn in the coil that will still keep the coil from working correctly but that is not nearly as likely as shorting to the slots. The sharp edges of the slots will easily cut into the enamel. But just wrapping the wire onto of itself is not likely to cause any shorts between turns. After wrapping the first couple of layers of wire over the tape you could then check for shorts and if there are none you most likely can finish the coil without getting any shorts. I would really like to see you get this running so I am just trying to make some suggestions to improve your chances of success.

Later, Carroll

PS: you can get the plumbers tape at Lowes or Home Depot in the plumbing section. It comes in a couple of different thicknesses. I would use the thickest.

[Farmhand]

Erfinder I have demonstrated the decreased power under load with air core
transformers, (the so called delayed Lenz transformer effect). And I know I
can show acceleration under load with a air core generator coil, I know this
because I know why it is happening and how to produce it.

I show in this video and the next why it happens and how. The clues are there. I do have an issue
with the meter dial getting turned to resistance at one point, a simple fumble of the fingers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYc6nN8MWAM

This shows the actual load on the battery is reduced when the load is applied
to the output transformer. When the load is put on the setup the input
decreases and the stress is relieved from the battery (the voltage rises) but
when the load is removed the battery is under more stress and the supply battery voltage
(decreases).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRzQ_CO9vnw

And another with LED's and a charging battery as a load.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xcy-bGetZf0

These tests were done 2 years ago, they show nothing much but the effect
of reduced input when a load is added to the system.

In my setup I take energy from a battery and create my own AC power as
well as transmit it to the output transformer and the load, so I show the
entire generation, transmission and loading.

Anyone using the wall and not creating or generating their own AC is cheating
and not even serious. Using the wall power give a big advantage because the
experimenter is getting the AC generated and provided without considering
the work and cost involved in doing that. To see how much work is involved
and get a fair result we should create the entire system from the energy
supply right through AC generation and to the load. Not just use the AC from
the wall and show a load.

Using an inverter will quickly show if the system is OU or not. If we make our
own AC from a source of potential like a battery then we get the full picture.

Using the grid means there are no generation or transmission costs in the experiment, the costs are only in our wallet.

Those who have not yet understood why it happens likely never will.

The core material is irrelevant.

In every case of reduced input under load there is also a reduced output as compared to normal use, never is the output more than the input.

So come on someone else want to show the effect with an air core transformer.

All we need to do is exceed the ability of the coils to throughput power due to
the increased reactance/impedance, it can happen with resonance or with
brute inductance. I've done it with coils of 200 turns, low resistance and inductance.

Always in my experience when the input under load "decreases" the maximum output also decreases.

Also when the transformer is tuned to show a decrease in input under load the idle input is high and abnormal (inefficient idle power).

The idle input when a transformer is tuned to run as normal is low and normal (efficient idle power levels).



......


Naudin shows the magnetization propagation delay in a long rod not a delay in Lenz effect.

Tesla has a patent which actually makes practical use of that effect.

Patent
Patent US524426 - Nikola tesla - Google Patents

Drawing
http://patentimages.storage.googleap...US524426-0.png


Cheers

P.S. I guess my point is that if Naudin has shown Over Unity or over 100% efficiency in any of his setups then where is all the hoopla ?
Why is it not in the news or at least the focus of everyone here's attentions ?

He says a lot of this "is" and that "is" as well, he's another who should use the terms "in my opinion" and "as far as I can tell" ect.

What is Naudin's purpose, another "hyper upperer", in my opinion.

He has no OU either, unfortunately. If I seen something I thought had merit
and valid theory could be formulated to possibly explain where the extra input
to the system is coming from then I would get excited.

..

A true delay in Lenz effect would involve a delay in the opposing generated voltage as mentioned in this paper.

Transformers Part 1 - Beginners' Guide to Electronics

3. How a Transformer Works
At no load, an ideal transformer draws virtually no current from the mains, since it is simply a large inductance. The whole principle of operation is based on induced magnetic flux, which not only creates a voltage (and current) in the secondary, but the primary as well! It is this characteristic that allows any inductor to function as expected, and the voltage generated in the primary is called a 'back EMF' (electromotive force). The magnitude of this voltage is such that it almost equals (and is effectively in the same phase as) the applied EMF.

Although a simple calculation can be made to determine the internally generated voltage, doing so is pointless since it can't be changed. As described in Part 1 of this series, for a sinusoidal waveform, the current through an inductor lags the voltage by 90 degrees. Since the induced current is lagging by 90 degrees, the internally generated voltage is shifted back again by 90° so is in phase with the input voltage.

The Lenz effect in my opinion is not the drag itself, but it is the reduction in
effective voltage due to the virtually instantaneous generation of a counter
emf/voltage, which results in less effective applied power. It isn't a loss
either. It is an indication of transferred or transformed energy, hence when
the acceleration under load is seen it goes along with a much reduced
transfer or transformation of energy.

The so called delayed lens effect is nothing more than an artificially created
initial increased Lenz effect with no load and high losses, then when the load
is added losses are reduced and the Lenz effect is reduced.

It is a back to front slight of hand, right in front of your face illusion.

.........

Ummm... I don't think I made many typo's or word errors, but if I did feel free to say so so I can fix them so as to avoid miscommunication.

..

2nd P.S. If people get the slightest doubt about a device or person they
should look at motives and associations, history, background any sign of
intentional deceit ect. .

Ultimately people will make their own decisions as they should. No one should
just believe anything I say, I am no expert anyway. By the same token people
should not just believe anything anyone says.

..

Even when people do not explicitly say so, in almost all cases people are stating their "Opinions". Myself included.

..

[shylo]

Magnetic fields

I got the fields figured out ,now I have to make a com. It's going to need 6 brushes at least.
Carroll, after the first three winds , I taped the whole core with electrical, and that thing still had bad spots. I stretched the tape when applying. Probably cut through?
Farmhand , I like your posts' ,they make me think.
I don't know how to show quotes, but in your reply I read;" when a transformer is tuned, It will show a decrease in consumption ,when under load", but show inefficient idle power.

I'd like to learn how to tune that transformer.
artv

[citfta]

Electrical tape

Hi shylo,

Yes if you had bad spots you probably did cut through the electrical tape. There are all grades of electrical tape. Some of it is very easy to cut through especially if you are pulling hard at the same time. The plumbers tape is made of teflon and the thinner tape will also cut pretty easily but the thicker is harder to accidentally cut through. The best thing to use would be the material the coils were originally wound on which is usually a very tough material almost like paper except a lot tougher.

I am interested to see what kind of commutator you can come up with as I am planning to also make one before too long.

Later, Carroll

[Farmhand]

One reasons why the reduced input under load effect will never amount to much is that
the output is only ever a percentage of the input, in all of Thanes Motor generator demo's the
power consumed by the prime mover is always more than the output, even though the input power is
reduced when a load is placed on the system the reduction is only possible because the
arrangement is so inherently inefficient to begin with there is wasted power to be saved when
the load alters the parameters that made the arrangement so inefficeint before the load was added.

The behavior of the arrangement is so that when there is "no load" in place the Lenz effect is at it's
greatest for the frequency used "with no output". Then when the load is introduced the factors
leading to the initial artificial inefficncy are altered, as well as some of the wasted power is
redirected to the load.

Basically the maximum output power available is limited from such an arrangement where the input
reduces under a load on the output, the reason being that the maximum available power is about
the amount of power that is input at any moment minus true regular losses ( copper/core losses ect.).

I seen in thanes video's figures like 190 Watts input with less than 50 Watts total utilized
output. And he claims to be making energy while doing that, that soes not seem like a sane comment.

Only utilized output is real output.

For example if we have a resonant air core transformer that has an input of 5 Watts and an
oscillating power or "activity" of 200 Watts, and it is lighting 3 Watts of LED's then the
output is 3 Watts and the efficiency is 60%. or a C.O.P. of 0.6.

The fact that there is 200 Watts of oscillating power or "activity" is irrelevant to the output and to the efficency.

Similarly the fact that a rotor or flywheel may be spinning with some great figure of kinetic
energy is irrelevant to the output, and by extention to the efficiency.

ie. If the input to any motor generator is lets say 190 Watts and the output is lets say 40 Watts
then the efficiency by my reckoning would be about 26.3% or a C.O.P. of 0.263. Which is very inefficent.

Cheers

[Matthew Jones]

FarmHand

Thayne Heins is not the only effect on the Market. In fact there are 3 situation and any number combinations of the 3 that force a generator to accelerate while creating power.

And although the effect is named "Delayed Lenz" who says thats whats happening? Maybe its Accelerated Lenz and everything happening faster.

So I know most don't think it has any value and most will never find what is dead in their face evidence of truly working. But then most people just don't try either, they just come to conclusions on very narrow subjects. They box themselves in.

So here's a question. You have a Multi strand coil wound on iron. The coil is any number of turn and any gauge of wire that has impedance of 5 ohms. Your driving this coil at 2000 rpm in an alternating fashion open, and when loaded the driver speeds up to 2200 rpms. Your open voltage on the coil is 100 volt rms and your closed current is 1 amp.

How much power can you use on that coil to maintain 48 volt at load?

Try to answer even if your not privey to my games. Answer in public or not, its no matter. But mind yourself if you can't answer it that means you haven't had the experience with a coil that accelerates. If you had the answer would be easy. The configuration of it would be obvious.

Then you gotta ask yourself, am I really in the position to write a critique on the what another person shows for work? If you can't answer that simple puzzle.

The reason I point this out is not to belittle but to help you understand that because you think you have it figured out based on a few tests and some text you really have just put yourself in a box and thinking outside of it is no longer possible. And this is the problem with people like yourself who look and don't succeed.

Matt

[Farmhand]

FarmHand

Thayne Heins is not the only effect on the Market. In fact there are 3 situation and any number combinations of the 3 that force a generator to accelerate while creating power.

And although the effect is named "Delayed Lenz" who says thats whats happening? Maybe its Accelerated Lenz and everything happening faster.

So I know most don't think it has any value and most will never find what is dead in their face evidence of truly working. But then most people just don't try either, they just come to conclusions on very narrow subjects. They box themselves in.

So here's a question. You have a Multi strand coil wound on iron. The coil is any number of turn and any gauge of wire that has impedance of 5 ohms. Your driving this coil at 2000 rpm in an alternating fashion open, and when loaded the driver speeds up to 2200 rpms. Your open voltage on the coil is 100 volt rms and your closed current is 1 amp.

How much power can you use on that coil to maintain 48 volt at load?

Try to answer even if your not privey to my games. Answer in public or not, its no matter. But mind yourself if you can't answer it that means you haven't had the experience with a coil that accelerates. If you had the answer would be easy. The configuration of it would be obvious.

Then you gotta ask yourself, am I really in the position to write a critique on the what another person shows for work? If you can't answer that simple puzzle.

The reason I point this out is not to belittle but to help you understand that because you think you have it figured out based on a few tests and some text you really have just put yourself in a box and thinking outside of it is no longer possible. And this is the problem with people like yourself who look and don't succeed.

Matt

I'm not here to answer your questions for you Matt. And with all due respect.

Do not try to qualify or quantify or categorize my thinking.

It is not me who is in the box.

I have succeeded, maybe not by your definition, but by mine I have. You saying I haven't does not make it reality.
Success in your book might mean achieving energy from nowhere. I have not done that.

I never said I have it all worked out, I put forward my opinion based on logic
and experimental observations as well as study.

Ok so you think you have it worked out and I am wrong. You won't show any
OU or useful acceleration under load because you will try to make out I want
you to show me for nothing and use that for an excuse, people not
necessarily you, say things like, Oh so you want everything given to you on a
silver plate. I don't want tricks and ruses on any plates or any blueprints to
devices that don't do what they are declared to be able to do even though
no one has ever shown it. So don't show it. I don't care.

A coil cannot be driven a 2000 rpm unless it's on a rotor.

Your question does not even make sense.

You keep your reality and allow me to have my say. There is no need for you
to respond directly to me. I'm not your lackey, I don't do what you say, I
don't work for you or anybody.

How about I give you a bunch of non sensical questions to answer ?

I'll tell you right now I am not going to even consider answering your questions.

How about for the benefit of the others you answer it ? Learn me Matt. Show me the figures.

It sounds like theory and theories usually have factors involved that evade consideration at first.

As far as I am concerned there is no need for me to respond to you any further unless you directly or indirectly insult me or such thing.

Why not have your say put forward your case and let people decide for themselves.

Heck people can even do their own experiments, which they do and many either agree with me or give similar explanations.

I don't do PM's much I prefer to keep things out in the open.

Cheers