Open discussion for projects on this forum.

[genessc]

Hi Bob,

The Longitudinal ampere force is just that an Ampere Current that inrushes the conductors orthagonally aka perpendicularly to the direction that the current elements are laid out and conducting on. Its not the Voltage, its a function of the volts turned pure current due the very low resistance of the current elements, which in that book were defined as two closed circuits that had a DC source to provide constant Very high AMPS thru the pair of elements, each with their OWN source, not shared source, and it was this interaction that occurred when the two current elements were put in local relation which then would cause this massive sideways incoming force to manifest on the wires which would then cause them to go brittle and crack when carrying such huge Amp Currents.

Ones gotta keep in mind that volts to amps is a sliding spectrum. If you have 12volts at 10amps, you could also have 120volts at 1 amp and its the same wattage, just a different "format" of that wattage. You could also have 1.2volts at 100amps... and its the same watts, different "format". In all 3 cases its still only 100watts.

So far GM has yet to stick to one system and actually work thru all the contributing details, instead of doing that he starts new context after context, and in none of them does he bother with details of basic importance such as determining input volts and amps versus output volts and amps.

At this point I've written GM off as now hes on about some RC brushless motor then followed by some 108amp alternator to drive one of his pole pigs... context after context of unfinished work. All he has is ignorance and he seems to be only to happy to share it.

I've been thru tesla, and the truth of growth is that its all DC impulses... the universe is a DC thing... cosntantly moving in a single vector when looked at from any particular point from within this context, while its moving as a Scalar cumulatively and aggregately to grow and take up ever more of the nothing with something...

If you watch those discovery/TLC channel sped up day/night viewings of the rainforest you can see the pulsations of life in the thermal gradients which are what are asymetric (or which are picked up asymetrically by the plants interacting with such) to then allow them to Expand during the day more than they contract during each night, thus evincing a "growth" function...

No need to furnish references for the tesla claims, I've purchased and own most books published relating to Tesla... been thru them a few times too. You might dig looking up a guy named D'arsonval as all of teslas "coils" were setup with biased polar primaries... d'arsonval had a means for making the drive coils unbiased... which I've managed to replicate in a couple novel setups in my garage... the ion chair and the bellerian apparatus.

Curious stuff huh.
Take care,
Gene

I've felt from the beginning that this is where discussion on the GM thread needed to go. But instead, lots of huffing and puffing threatening to blow the house down . I think this (Longitudinal impulse electricity) is what you were pointing toward, Gene?

My question has always been, how is the effect GM is seeing related to Tesla's impulse electricity that EPD describes as a major factor in the engineering of Tesla's motors subsequent to the AC Polyphase motors. By his later years, Tesla had already moved beyond AC polyphase in his electric motor designs and was harnessing impulse electricity. If I can find some references, I'll post them later on.

Bob

[voltan]

proof of concept ?

[citfta]

I like it! Let me know when they go into production. I would like to order one. Then I won't have to pay the utility company anymore.

[OrthoParameter]

Lol....there's my flying pole pig

[citfta]

Some initial test with the pump motor coils and ceramic magnets look promising. With only four magnets on my flywheel/rotor I am able to charge a 13,000 uf 50 volt cap up to over 50 volts in a couple of seconds. I don't know what the final voltage would be as I shut it off before the voltage went any higher. I need to get some higher voltage caps to see how high it will settle out to be.

I only had 4 magnets on the rotor because when I had a full set of magnets I got a severe out of balance problem. Apparently I am going to have to weigh all the magnets and try to find some that all weigh the same. These are all rough cut so the weights are not exactly the same.

I am also going to have to get some stronger packing tape that has the fiber strands in it. When the out of balance rotor started shaking it broke the regular clear tape and magnets went flying like bullets all over the shop. I had already made sure I was not going to be in the path of any flying magnets so no injuries to report.

The above voltage was gotten with the coil mounted about 1/4" away from the magnets. At that distance there is almost no magnetic drag. I was surprised I could get that much power with the coil so far from the magnets but it seems to be working.

When I get the rotor balanced with all magnets on it then I will mount some more coils which will allow me to reduce the cogging effect even more. So that should make the system even more efficient. I will report more when I get the rotor with magnets working like I want it to.

Later,
Carroll

[OrthoParameter]

Some initial test with the pump motor coils and ceramic magnets look promising. With only four magnets on my flywheel/rotor I am able to charge a 13,000 uf 50 volt cap up to over 50 volts in a couple of seconds. I don't know what the final voltage would be as I shut it off before the voltage went any higher. I need to get some higher voltage caps to see how high it will settle out to be.

I only had 4 magnets on the rotor because when I had a full set of magnets I got a severe out of balance problem. Apparently I am going to have to weigh all the magnets and try to find some that all weigh the same. These are all rough cut so the weights are not exactly the same.

I am also going to have to get some stronger packing tape that has the fiber strands in it. When the out of balance rotor started shaking it broke the regular clear tape and magnets went flying like bullets all over the shop. I had already made sure I was not going to be in the path of any flying magnets so no injuries to report.

The above voltage was gotten with the coil mounted about 1/4" away from the magnets. At that distance there is almost no magnetic drag. I was surprised I could get that much power with the coil so far from the magnets but it seems to be working.

When I get the rotor balanced with all magnets on it then I will mount some more coils which will allow me to reduce the cogging effect even more. So that should make the system even more efficient. I will report more when I get the rotor with magnets working like I want it to.

Later,
Carroll

That is great news! Are you running magnets between the core arms or axial across the ends? My design, I think parallels yours so I would love to collaborate and see what you have going on. I'm first going to try off the shelf crossover coils with my custom cast core. I have 2 4700uF 400v caps I can parallel.

I went to pick up my magnetite powder and sodium silicate but was not there. I came home and checked tracking and it said that the package was damaged and returned. Amazon reviews show a history of leaking packages arriving due to lame packaging. Oh well, I'm printing parts for Dave so I'll be busy for a while and I also got my wire for Matt's new pulse motor design. I have a quantity on sodium hydroxide so I may just buy some silica gel and make my own silicate.

[genessc]

Is that one from Cincinnatis flying pigs park down by riverfront?

Gene

proof of concept ?

[Turion]

Success

Carroll,
Glad to see this is working for you. I only had the one PMH to experiment with, but it looked good to me. I have wondered about some things, and there are some things that I wanted to try. I'll get to them eventually. The important thing is that it appears this MIGHT function as a decent generator. I know more testing is needed, but this is a good first step.

Ortho,
Thanks for printing those parts!! I will be happy to get that project assembled and in the test phase. I think I have 4 projects in the test phase right now and 3 in the construction phase. My wife just shakes her head, but better this than internet porn I guess. Although you can get a lot of free porn....and this stuff is ALL expensive! LOL Oh and this has GOTTA be more addicting than porn too!! So beware guys!

Dave

[citfta]

Here is a picture of my test set-up. I have removed the window motor stator windings. You can still see the rotor of the window motor in behind the flywheel on the other side of the wooden bearing support. I have the scooter motor disconnected at this time so you don't see it at the far end of the shaft. I am reusing my window motor shaft because I already have this nice flywheel mounted and balanced on the window motor shaft.

This is the way I had it when I got the results I posted earlier. With only these two sets of magnets I was able to charge the 50 volt 13,000 uf cap to over 50 volts in about 2 seconds. I have noticed that the attraction of the magnets seems to be the strongest when one north pole magnet is over one leg of the coil assembly and one south pole magnet is over the other leg of the coil assembly. I feel sure once I get the rest of the magnets mounted and the whole thing balanced I will be able to charge that cap almost instantly. I did find a cap rated for 100 volts so I can use that to see what the highest voltage I can get will be.

I also was running the scooter motor at the lowest setting of my variable power supply. It is rated at 12 volts and 30 amps. But the output is adjustable from about 9 nine volts to about 15 volts. So I was running the motor on about 9 volts.

In studying this I see that the two coils are wound in opposite directions. Looking from the magnet end one coil is wound clockwise and the other is wound counterclockwise. I am looking at one of the assemblies I have that is not encased in plastic. If I remember right that is the same way the PMH is wound.

I think the picture explains how I am doing my testing. If anyone has any questions I will try to answer them. I really want to see what these coils will do when I can get all the magnets mounted and balanced and then add some more coils to help eliminate the cogging although the cogging is now so low it barely raised the current draw of the unloaded motor. With no coils and running on 9 volts the current was about 5.5 amps. With the one coil assembly mounted and charging the cap the current was still under 6 amps.

Later,
Carroll

[OrthoParameter]

cool setup

well, that's an easy setup using off shelf and re-purposed machines.


I still haven't left the barn on anything, although I did go by my storage and pull out the old Matt pulse motor to rewind.

Have to finish transplanting tomato, pepper, melons, and other plants into our straw bale garden and rig up the timer and soaker hoses so I don't have to get up early and water this summer when it gets....well.....way tooooo hot down here in rutherford co, nc.

[gyula]

Hi Carroll,

Would like to ask whether the purpose of your test setup is to receive more output than input? I know that you did not write such and Dave (Turion) has clearly written in his thread that he did not claim such either, as he also kindly showed a video on his own generator setup very similar to that of yours in principle.

Of course I know that building and testing some setups is the best way to explore ideas and I wonder that in this particular setup the initial idea inherently includes the extra output possibility?
Dave mentioned Angus Wangus generator setup which is similar to both of your setups and maybe I did not notice but has Angus Wangus found very efficient operation for his generator setup?

Thanks,
Gyula

[citfta]

Hi gyula,

My primary purpose is to research some of the ideas Bizzy presented when he was working on the Watson/Bedini machine. I am using electronic switching using mosfets instead of the mechanical switching Bizzy used. As he found there are a lot of variables to consider in the design of the machine. The flywheel has to be sized to match the motor and generator. The speed of the machine affects the generating ability and the effect of the flywheel on maintaining speed. The on and off time of the motor affects the current draw and how much you have to keep getting from the generator side to maintain battery charge. Just a lot of things to adjust and try to see what affects what. So mostly I am just playing around with how many coils do I need to keep the battery up and the on and off time of the motor. At this point I have not gotten to a system that will run and keep itself charged at the same time. So still adjusting and testing. So to answer your question, yes I would like to get more out than I put in but am not there yet.

Later,
Carroll

PS: I have some things I have to do, but if I get time later I will post a picture of my set-up.

[citfta]

Here is a picture of my crude generator set. Still working on the best balance of motor pulse timing and other things to see if I can get a self charging system like the Watson/Bedini machine. The shaft is from my window motor. I reused it because it has some very nice high speed precision bearings and also already had the flywheel mounted on the end. I just put my magnets around the outside of the flywheel and fastened them down with reinforced strapping tape. So far it is staying together.

Carroll

[gyula]

Hi Carroll,

Okay, so it is the Watson/Bedini machine principle.

Thanks for the picture on your setup. I assume the material of the flywheel is ferromagnetic so the NS magnets next to each other can join their opposing poles (that touch the wheel) via the flywheel, while their other side facing the generator cores can also join their opposing poles in the generator cores (via the air gap) whenever they are aligned.
You wrote in your post #434: "I have noticed that the attraction of the magnets seems to be the strongest when one north pole magnet is over one leg of the coil assembly and one south pole magnet is over the other leg of the coil assembly." This is because in that moment there is a closed magnetic circuit, even though there is an air gap between the magnets and the legs of the generator coil cores. I think if your flywheel is not ferromagnetic, the induced output voltage would be less than it is now (again here I assume your flywheel is ferromagnetic).

This latter detail may partly explain why Dave receives less output in his setup if his rotor is not ferromagnetic (I assume) and the poles on the back side of the magnets that touch the rotors cannot join unless he uses a ferromagnetic back plate embedded in the rotor. Another detail different in Dave's setup is that his magnets are cylindrical and have less facing surface area with respect to the legs of the generator cores, your magnets shape and facing area are much favorable in this respect.

I understand that the generator cores and coils are that of the pump motor parts, however such motor coil may have an unwantedly high DC resistance, a limiting factor in output power when used as generator coils. And if you were to rewind the cores with a thicker wire to reduce copper loss, the output voltage would be less because of the less number of turns the thicker wire lets you fill the same bobbin. This less output could be compensated by using more number of generator coils. Probably the Lenz drag would also be higher with the thicker wire coils though than with the present coils because the charging currents involved would be higher.

Sorry for a little 'rambling', perhaps some info may become useful for those reading this thread.

Gyula

[Turion]

My magnets were much smaller than the ones Carroll used, and my rotor was plastic. The magnets did not touch. I did use a strip of metal to tie each pair of magnets together however.

I am in the process of building a new rotor right now. It has 11 magnet pairs on it and they will not be connected by anything conductive other than they are touching each other. They are the larger rectangular magnets like Carroll used. If my voltage doesn't seem to be what I want, I have left a way to connect the back of each pair or ALL the pairs of magnets with a metallic strip in the back. It will probably be tomorrow or the next day before I get the rotor completed. I ran out of magnets and need to make another trip to Lowes. I'm not even sure they will have six packages of those rectangular magnets, which is what I need, so I may have to wait a week or so until I can get to the city, or get some delivered by eBay or Amazon.

Another individual I spoke with told me that when he replicated this and passed the magnets between the two points on the stator, the voltage was less but it sped up when inductive or resistive loads were added. When run the way we are running it, (magnets moving across the ends of the points instead of between them) it slowed down with resistive loads and sped up with inductive loads, which is the opposite of what other projects I have built would do. I would much rather have it speed up when inductive loads are added!!!!!! Easier try and loop the setup.

Dave