Open discussion for projects on this forum.

[citfta]

You know, you had may as well be talking about yourself.

It is a fact that you have single-handedly lowered the standards on this forum. Never before you, or since you, have I come across any individual who will shamelessly insult, attack, discredit and target anyone on the personal level in an effort to get "the audience" on your side simply because that person DARED to question your opinion. You simply cannot handle being questioned in public, as if it's a disgrace. But the worst part is how you deal with it. You call everyone a shill if they disagree with YOU, then you set about trying to attack their character, undermining them and trying to make them look foolish as if you're trying to convince "the audience".

Why?

I also totally agree with this assessment. And I am pretty sure I know "WHY". From all the attempted discussions I have tried to have in the past with UFO I am firmly convinced he just doesn't have the technical expertise to engage in a discussion about the technical aspects of his claims. So he resorts to the only thing he knows how to do and that is to try to bully and bluff his way through.

[Ufopolitics]

A Personality of Constant Contradicting Confusions...

I also totally agree with this assessment. And I am pretty sure I know "WHY". From all the attempted discussions I have tried to have in the past with UFO I am firmly convinced he just doesn't have the technical expertise to engage in a discussion about the technical aspects of his claims. So he resorts to the only thing he knows how to do and that is to try to bully and bluff his way through.

Now you are "accusing" me of not being "enough qualified" in the Field of Expertise related to My Claims...?

Before You were accusing me of being "A Misinformation Agent"...:

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you UFO! I couldn't have done a better job of proving you to be a misinformation agent.

I think that both "accusations" that you have made to me are totally "in conflict" with each others...so, please, make up your mind.

A "Misinformation Agent" is supposed to be a very well trained person, basically with large expertise in the "Field" is going to work at...otherwise, such "Agent" would be very easy to spot when dealing with such highly knowledgeable community...

I just can't keep wasting my time with you or bistander (same thing)...As I got so many more productive things to do that this nonsense discussion.

Do and think whatever you please, I could not care less...


Ufopolitics

[citfta]

I realize comprehending the written words are hard for you. I did make it perfectly clear in a previous post. I lean toward the idea that you are just not qualified to have a technical discussion. But your over-reaction to my post about misinformation agents casts some doubts about the first assumption. If you really could care less about what Bistander and myself think then why do you keep responding?

[Dave45]

Carrol
Iv been thinking about current moving from neg to pos inside the battery, i dont think this is happening imo, a simple battery charging circuit pulls electrons from the pos to the neg ie charging the battery.

A generator actually pulls electrons from the ambient via the eddy currents around the magnet. When the magnet passes the ferrous core the ferrous core shares the magnets magnetic field and also its eddy currents, when the magnet passes the ferrous core the eddy currents collapse into the windings wound on the ferrous core.

Anyone, lets get back on track

[bistander]

Generator

Carrol
Iv been thinking about current moving from neg to pos inside the battery, i dont think this is happening imo, a simple battery charging circuit pulls electrons from the pos to the neg ie charging the battery.

A generator actually pulls electrons from the ambient via the eddy currents around the magnet. When the magnet passes the ferrous core the ferrous core shares the magnets magnetic field and also its eddy currents, when the magnet passes the ferrous core the eddy currents collapse into the windings wound on the ferrous core.

Hi Dave,

I disagree with your generator-eddy current relationship. You can make generators without ferrous cores. And I've never heard of eddy currents in air. So something else is responsible.

In the generator, the electron movement (typically referred to as current) results from circuits connecting coils or conductors which have a voltage generated in them according to Faraday's Law.

bistander

[citfta]

Carrol
Iv been thinking about current moving from neg to pos inside the battery, i dont think this is happening imo, a simple battery charging circuit pulls electrons from the pos to the neg ie charging the battery.

A generator actually pulls electrons from the ambient via the eddy currents around the magnet. When the magnet passes the ferrous core the ferrous core shares the magnets magnetic field and also its eddy currents, when the magnet passes the ferrous core the eddy currents collapse into the windings wound on the ferrous core.

Hi Dave,

You are correct that a battery charger pulls electrons from the positive plates of the battery and moves them to the negative plates of the battery. Then when a load is applied the excess electrons move from the negative plate through the load to the positive plate.

You appear to have an misunderstanding of the term "eddy current". In normal use in electronics that term means unwanted random currents that are induced into surrounding conducting material. These are unwanted because they cause heating of the material and they rob the magnetic field of some of its power. That is why transformers are made of thin sheets of metal that are insulated from one another. The field coil cores and armatures of motors are made this same way and for the same reason. The thin sheets limit the amount and size of the eddy currents.

What you are referring to is called the induced or generated current. This current is forced to move in a uniform direction by the design of the coils. In a DC generator the current of course is directed by the brush design to move in one direction and in an AC alternator the current moves one way and then the other. The magnetic field that causes this action can be thought of as a pump to pump electrons. The magnetic field acting upon the conductor causes the electrons to move. The polarity of the magnetic field and the relative direction of movement between that field and the conductor determines the direction of the current flow. It is not a random flow like eddy currents and except for some minor heat losses from the resistance of the wire there is very little heat generated under normal circumstances.

As Bistander has already said you do not have to have a core material to have a generating coil. You do not even have to have a core material to have a motor coil. I have on my bench right now a small motor generator that I built that has no cores in either the motor coil or the generator coils. Of course it doesn't generate as much without the cores but it does put out power and run like that. The advantage is even though I have strong neo magnets on the rotor there is no magnetic lock at any time so I don't have to try and overcome that drag.

Can eddy currents be useful? Yes, they are used in industry every day for what is called induction hardening of metals. Special transformers are used to generate a high frequency high current eddy current into metal and this raises the metal temperature so high the metal will actually glow a bright red. The metal is then quenched with oil or a mixture of oil and water to quickly cool the metal and this creates a very hard surface on the metal. Only the surface is affected because the high frequency used does not penetrate deeply into the metal. The most common use for this technology is the hardening of gear teeth. This allows the gear to have very hard surfaced teeth to resist wear but at the same time the rest of the gear is not so hard as to be brittle.

Carroll

[aljhoa]

"eddy currAnt"




Al

[Cadman]

aljhoa

currant vs. current ? The Correct Way to Use Each | Confusing Words

[wantomake]

Hi wantomake,

Please forgive my approach here, but I am really curious as to what success means to you. Was it simply a rotating machine? Did you put it to use? Did you measure output/input? Can refer back to a post number so I might take a look at it? How do you feel you benefit from it rather than using an off-the-shelf product?

Thanks,

bistander

Bistander,
Just the motor generator rotating machine. I did put it to use with the 3BGS and sorry was some time ago don't remenber measurements. I did learn so much from that build as a student of free energy. I guess my advice would be to build and test the difference of off the shelf and Ufo's modified motor generator.

wantomake

[wantomake]

I think MANY of us would like to see more details of your success.
Could you make a video and enlighten us all?


Ernst.

Ernst,
Sorry that was some time ago. The motor generator was assimilated into different experiments. As a student of this forum I can't enlighten, but I can encourage others to build and test to satisfy interest or doubt in builds on this forum.

I did a video under skyflight1able on YouTube. May still be there not sure.
wantomake

[Ufopolitics]

Who is misinforming who?

Anyone, lets get back on track

Originally Posted by Dave45

A generator actually pulls electrons from the ambient via the eddy currents around the magnet. When the magnet passes the ferrous core the ferrous core shares the magnets magnetic field and also its eddy currents, when the magnet passes the ferrous core the eddy currents collapse into the windings wound on the ferrous core.

Hi Dave,

I disagree with your generator-eddy current relationship. You can make generators without ferrous cores. And I've never heard of eddy currents in air. So something else is responsible.

In the generator, the electron movement (typically referred to as current) results from circuits connecting coils or conductors which have a voltage generated in them according to Faraday's Law.

bistander

Hi Dave,

[...]As Bistander has already said you do not have to have a core material to have a generating coil. You do not even have to have a core material to have a motor coil.[...]

Hello Dave45,

An Electric Generator does pull Energy from the ambient. but not due to the so called "Eddy", Joe or John Currents, the Magnetic Field within its housing is the only component which pulls energy from the ambient.

The process is exactly as you wrote above, (except replacing "eddy current" by "Field"), where Field induces core, and core induces coils.

Axial Air Core Generators are low efficiency and used in small low cost Wind Turbines or some Home or Science made Generator projects.

Industrial and Large Wind Generators DOES have Iron Cores...

[IMG][/IMG]

If you take off the iron laminated core, from any Home generating stator coils fields ...it may not even light up an LED, no matter how fast the gas engine would be spinning.

Air is not a good conductor of Magnetic Field "Flux"...

You could "make" a generator or a motor of whatever material you want to put in the core, even air, plastic or bananas...however, the final result on TOP performance and efficiency are dictated by the use of a Ferromagnetic Core.

The same exact thing applies to Motors...an air core motor would never, ever have the strength (torque) as a laminated iron core motor does.

Air Core in Electrodynamics in general are used on low power, low torque applications.

It is misleading to write that electric generators or even motors don't need ferromagnetic cores, without giving the big differences between air and iron cores, which is day and night

ALL Industrial and Home Generators are based on Iron Laminated Cores.

Otherwise all electric generator's manufacturers in the world would not be spending such huge budget on the design, construction, handling and transportation of super heavy iron laminations cores for ALL kind of motors and generators around the whole Planet.

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]


Regards David.


Ufopolitics

[citfta]

UFO,

You really do need to work on your reading comprehension skills. I clearly said with out a core the torque of a motor would be much less. And I also clearly said a generating coil without a core would produce much less power. And you are constantly accusing others of misunderstanding what you say. Yet the one who constantly tries to misrepresent what others say is YOU.

[Ufopolitics]

UFO,

You really do need to work on your reading comprehension skills. I clearly said with out a core the torque of a motor would be much less. And I also clearly said a generating coil without a core would produce much less power. And you are constantly accusing others of misunderstanding what you say. Yet the one who constantly tries to misrepresent what others say is YOU.

You did, at the end but not your Buddy...I cited your post because, like always, you backed him up.

Hi Dave,

I disagree with your generator-eddy current relationship. You can make generators without ferrous cores. And I've never heard of eddy currents in air. So something else is responsible.

In the generator, the electron movement (typically referred to as current) results from circuits connecting coils or conductors which have a voltage generated in them according to Faraday's Law.

bistander

[citfta]

Maybe a remedial reading class would help. Bistander never said that was the best way to make generating coils. He just said it could be done. You just insist on showing everyone your lack of reading skills.

[bistander]

air cores

...

Axial Air Core Generators are low efficiency and used in small low cost Wind Turbines or some Home or Science made Generator projects.

<snip>

You could "make" a generator or a motor of whatever material you want to put in the core, even air, plastic or bananas...however, the final result on TOP performance and efficiency are dictated by the use of a Ferromagnetic Core. ...

Yet where top performance is sought a non-ferrous core motor is used. Designed by CSIRO for solar racers and licensed to Marand, the axial flux PM non-ferrous core motor weighs in at 7kg hitting a peak of 12kW with 98.4% efficiency. It is basically a high torque low speed machine used in the vehicle's wheels as direct drive.

Yes, Ufo, the vast majority of motors, generators and transformers use ferrous cores. I was simply stating the ferrous core wasn't necessary to show that the generated "current" doesn't come from the ferrous core. Not many applications command the motor or generator price associated with a coreless design, but that is economics, not physics or as you put it, performance and efficiency.

It is erroneous and incorrect statements like the above* quote from you which I object to and attempt to set right. Just that there are so many. I just pick a few. And I stick to the facts, and don't get into name-calling and ridicule.

Air is not a good conductor of Magnetic Field "Flux"...

I thought it was your theory that magnetism was faster than the speed of light, traveled to the ends of the universe and went through everything that stood in its way. So that is an odd comment from you. It is probably more correct to say that ferrous materials have a much higher magnetic permeability than air at moderate magnetic induction levels. The advantage disappears at high flux density so when extremely strong magnetic fields are required, "air" is used instead of iron.

bistander