Open discussion for projects on this forum.

[Ufopolitics]

Testing Measurements...

Thanks for the explanation Ufo. Yes 6 gauge wire can easily carry 73 amps. I think you mean tin coated copper wire as I have never seen plain tin wire. Tin coated copper is much easier to solder to and also will not corrode like plain copper wire will in certain environments.

Your AC clamp meter is probably picking up some of the field of the other wires close by. We usually try to separate the wires further than that when using a clamp meter. Also you can get erroneous readings if the clamps do not come completely together. Even a small piece of dirt between the ends of the clamps will cause problems. Hope these tips help you get a good reading.

Respectfully,
Carroll

Hello Carroll,

Yes, that is what I meant, tin coated wire, it is more expensive, less chances to rust on a Marine environment...
That Meter I borrowed from a friend,it just could be defective...I have others but do not get to High Amps, only 40...I use those next time on AC Generating...don't think will ever go higher than 40 there. Even though that Generator Outputs 120V/50A, and I am not regulating speed, My Motor reaches 4400 to 4600 RPM's at no load at Generator, then I get 160V AC...it drops down to 3400 under load, which is within allowed rate to keep @58 Hz

Where I am having problems is at the DC side, they jump from High to Low at very fast pulsing rate, it is DC Pulsed...not linear at my Motor, and really have no idea how to measure DC Pulsed Amperage to be steady.
The drops and up amps range are of a too wide scope, say from 23 goes to 16, then to 28-29 then back to 16 amps...and it is very hard to keep a constant or average there. I have tried an AC Cap, an Electrolytic...but don't make any difference at all.

Someone told me about a 12 feet wire of 8 gauge, a shunt...do you think that will make a better reading there?

I do not have an Amp Probe, and have no idea if My Scope will read that way amps...it is not written anywhere on Manual it will read amps.

Any suggestions, I will give it a try


Thanks and regards


Ufopolitics

[citfta]

Hi Ufo,

Sorry for the slow reply. I have been out of town for several days with no internet access.

To use the 12 foot wire as a shunt you will need a couple of other things that you may or may not have. First you will need an accurate low ohms reading meter. Something that can accurately measure in the 10ths of an ohm. You would need to measure the resistance of that wire so you can do the proper calculations. The second thing you would need is an old analogue meter. One that has no electronics. Just a plain simple panel meter. It would need to be calibrated to read about twice what the voltage across your shunt is going to be when the pulses are at their peak current. Because the needle can not move as fast as the pulses it will average out the voltage across the shunt. It may still not be dead on accurate but should be pretty close.

The best way to calibrate the meter would be to put a pot in series with the meter and then apply a a known voltage of twice what you think is going to be across the shunt. Then adjust the pot for a a full scale reading on the meter. You can then put a small cap like .1 uf across just the meter connections to help smooth the pulses more. Be sure and clamp the pot some way so it can't change or with a meter measure the resistance setting of the pot and replace it with a fixed resistor if you can find one of that value.

I hope these suggestions help. If I need to clarify anything please ask.

Respectfully,
Carroll

[Ufopolitics]

Hello Citfta

Hi Ufo,

Sorry for the slow reply. I have been out of town for several days with no internet access.

To use the 12 foot wire as a shunt you will need a couple of other things that you may or may not have. First you will need an accurate low ohms reading meter. Something that can accurately measure in the 10ths of an ohm. You would need to measure the resistance of that wire so you can do the proper calculations. The second thing you would need is an old analogue meter. One that has no electronics. Just a plain simple panel meter. It would need to be calibrated to read about twice what the voltage across your shunt is going to be when the pulses are at their peak current. Because the needle can not move as fast as the pulses it will average out the voltage across the shunt. It may still not be dead on accurate but should be pretty close.

The best way to calibrate the meter would be to put a pot in series with the meter and then apply a a known voltage of twice what you think is going to be across the shunt. Then adjust the pot for a a full scale reading on the meter. You can then put a small cap like .1 uf across just the meter connections to help smooth the pulses more. Be sure and clamp the pot some way so it can't change or with a meter measure the resistance setting of the pot and replace it with a fixed resistor if you can find one of that value.

I hope these suggestions help. If I need to clarify anything please ask.

Respectfully,
Carroll

Hello Citfta,

Thanks, I 've got a real Shunt...like this one here...

http://datasheet.octopart.com/06713-...heet-16367.pdf

I've got the Portable one...

Now what I am trying to get is the 50Mv Ammeter that will be accurate enough to measure the 50Mv drop per each 100 Amps in the circuit...so the Milli Volt Scale needs to be pretty well displayed between 1 to 50 mV, since I do not reach 100 A in my set up.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Michael John Nunnerley]

Hello Citfta,

Thanks, I 've got a real Shunt...like this one here...

http://datasheet.octopart.com/06713-...heet-16367.pdf

I've got the Portable one...

Now what I am trying to get is the 50Mv Ammeter that will be accurate enough to measure the 50Mv drop per each 100 Amps in the circuit...so the Milli Volt Scale needs to be pretty well displayed between 1 to 50 mV, since I do not reach 100 A in my set up.


Regards


Ufopolitics

Hi UFO

To measure the current draw of your motor is not so straight foreward. The only real way to get an accurate reading would be with a scope.

The reason is that the duty and pulse rate "frequency" is a variable, with duty you could only take an average if the duty was 50%, your duty cycle is not 50% I think, the amount of on time to off time in one secound is not 50:50! You will have to work out the time on and time off in one secound at full speed.

Any meter is only going to give you the peak amps as they are to slow to make an accurate visable drop, only a scope can do this to show voltage, frequency and duty and from this knowing the shunt resistance you can calculate the current draw per frequency.

Hope this has helped

P.S. the scope will measure Voltage accross the shunt + duty + frequency

Mike

[Ufopolitics]

Excellent Input!!

Hi UFO

To measure the current draw of your motor is not so straight foreward. The only real way to get an accurate reading would be with a scope.

The reason is that the duty and pulse rate "frequency" is a variable, with duty you could only take an average if the duty was 50%, your duty cycle is not 50% I think, the amount of on time to off time in one secound is not 50:50! You will have to work out the time on and time off in one secound at full speed.

Any meter is only going to give you the peak amps as they are to slow to make an accurate visable drop, only a scope can do this to show voltage, frequency and duty and from this knowing the shunt resistance you can calculate the current draw per frequency.

Hope this has helped

P.S. the scope will measure Voltage accross the shunt + duty + frequency

Mike

Thanks a million Mike!!

Excellent Input my Dear Friend!...yes, completely agree, and I definitively will test it that way!...

Such great method could not come from any other one, than a Great Scientist like You !...


Warm regards


Ufopolitics

[citfta]

Good resource

For those of you that would like to understand motors better I have found a good resource that starts out very basic and will take you as far as you probably want to go. It explains about the different kinds of motors and how they work as well as back-emf and other terms used in the motor industry. It also explains generator theory.

Reliance - Basic Motor Theory

Carroll

[dR-Green]

Just for fun...

PWM In Action - YouTube

[citfta]

"Planet Generator"

This is not really a discussion of a project on this forum. But it is about "free energy" or maybe I should say "free money" for the scammer.

I just got today an email telling me I just had to go to a site to save money. When I clicked on the link I was taken to a video about the "Planet Generator". The guy on the video claims to be an electrician from Texas that has figured out how to make a generator for his backyard that will allow you to cut by %80 to %100 of your electric bill. And you can build it with no electrical knowledge and for only around $80 or so. He gives his personal money back guarantee if you are not fully happy with your results.

I wasted some time and watched the video. It is so full of mistakes I am surprised he sells any of them. But he has the testimonials of several people that have made them. Unfortunately I have learned that anyone can say anything. Even though most of us don't like liars that doesn't stop them. So I take all testimonials with a lot of doubts.

He claims the sun is positively charged and the earth is negatively charged and all we have to do is tap into this great potential. How does he know the sun is positively charged? And yes I am aware the atmosphere does have a charge in relation to the earth but that is not what he was saying.

Next he claims his electric bill was running around $100 to $130 a month. So even in Texas he went for a month without the AC on to try and save money. But he says he only saved $18. I am quit sure even a very small house in Texas in the summer is going to use much more than $18 dollars worth of electricity for the AC.

So then he found the secret by studying Tesla's work. How many times have we heard that before? He built his generator and his next bill was $20 dollars and some change. He then went on to make it bigger and completely eliminated his usage of electricity from the electric company and started selling it back to them. Over the next seven years he saved almost $6000 dollars. Now that just doesn't add up. If his lowest bills were $100 a month that is a savings of $1200 a year. Multiply that be seven years and he should have saved $8400.

Now let's say we still think he is kind of telling the truth about his device. He is offering to sell us the book telling how to do it for only $49.95. And if we act now we get some bonus books too. We get a book on how to build our own wind generator. What do we need a wind generator for if we have the plans to build a free energy generator? And we are going to get a book that tells us how to make our own solar cells. Why would we want to do that? And we are also going to get a book telling us how to make our own batteries. Again I have to ask why would we need that if we have the plans for a generator that is supposed to work anywhere and run 24/7 with no maintenance?

Since I didn't really want to waste 50 bucks I didn't buy the book. Has anyone actually seen any of his plans? I am not asking you to post any copyrighted material. I am just curious if his plans are just a copy of some of the other scams out there or is this a new one?

Respectfully,
Carroll

[nunocamelias]

Sixto Ramos Replica

Hello! I have been working on a replica of the multiplier system of Fernando Sixto Ramos.

Here you can see some test with my system:

Replica Fernando Sixto Ramos:
Replica Fernando Sixto Ramos - YouTube

Sixto Ramos Replica - Load Test (fail)
Sixto Ramos Replica - Load Test (fail) - YouTube

Sixto Ramos Replica - technical details
Sixto Ramos Replica - technical details - YouTube

Thank you

[citfta]

Wardforce?

There have been a couple of threads lately about something called Wardforce. Since I am like most of the people on this forum I was interested in any new form of energy. I have spent a couple of days checking the claims made about Wardforce.

I have found Mr. Ward makes some claims that don't stand up to close inspection. He claims he is not moving a magnet past the coil. But that is not exactly true. He is moving a magnet between two other magnets in the magnetic base. So in a sense he is still moving a magnet that is affecting the magnetic field that is going through the coil. I can say the engine in my car is not connected to the wheels and that would be partially true since the engine is connected to the transmission and then the transmission is connected the differential and that is connected to the drive axles which then turn the wheels.

He claims to have separated some unknown force from the north and south poles of a magnet but we are shown nothing to support that claim.

He says he has seen aging of his parts because of his search for the Wardforce. I am quite sure that is correct. He uses a machinist's magnetic base for his demonstrations. I am very familiar with those magnetic bases. As he has shown they have a magnet in the center that either aids or opposes the main magnets. When turned to oppose the main magnets the base does not stick to metal. When turned 90 degrees the center magnet aids the main magnets and then the base will stick with quite a bit of force. All in all a pretty ingenious device.

The problem with using it as Mr. Ward is doing is the fact these devices are supposed to be turned on and off maybe a dozen or so times in one day. With any speed at all on the shaft turning the center magnet he is turning it on and off several times a second. Since they do have a very close fit as Mr. Ward has said they will wear out very quickly using them as he is doing. You will notice in one of his later videos where he is showing lighting a couple of bulbs and shorting them out that he is in fact turning a magnet inside the coils instead of using the magnetic base. You will also notice in the second video on his video page that he first gives a flywheel a spin before trying to start his motor to run his demonstration. He called it a counterweight but it is in fact a flywheel. He needs that because of the very strong cogging effect of turning on and off the machinist's magnetic base. Any machinist will tell you it takes some force to turn the base off. And if the friction mechanism get worn then when you go to turn it on it will jump to the on position. That is why he needed the flywheel. To smooth out the pulses of trying to turn on and off the base.

Now to the real problem with the Wardforce. If you remove the coil it does not exist!! The Wardforce is not a function of the poles of the magnet at all. It is a function of the inductance of the coil! This has been demonstrated several times by other people. Thane Heins has demonstrated this effect and I believe it was romerouk who built a device he claimed he looped based on the same principle. I have demonstrated this to my own satisfaction using very short pulses and no magnets at all.

It seems to work like this. If you can get very short pulses to a coil either by electronically pulsing or by spinning a magnet fast enough past the coil you get a very sharp rise and fall of voltage on the coil. If your pulse is fast enough when the magnetic field of the coil collapses if the coil is shorted the current through the coil will actually aid in kicking the magnet away from the coil. The magnet just has to be moving fast enough so that it is already beginning to move away from the coil when the collapse occurs.

The real problem with Mr. Ward's system as shown is he is using a lot more power to move his magnets than the little bit he saves by shorting the coil or applying a load. In other words if he can save a few watts of power does that really mean anything when he is spending several hundred watts to do it?

Please keep any replies to the technical discussion only. If you don't agree with what I have said then keep your comments to a discussion of technically why you don't agree. I have no problem at all with someone that doesn't agree from a technical point of view but I will not respond to anyone that just wants to bash someone because they don't agree.

Respectfully, Carroll

[shylo]

Respectfully

Carroll, Hi let me first say that your posts' are invaluable.
I don't have the knowledge , of what is happening .
But in many exp. I have seen where you can gain , by the very quick interruption of flow. Regardless if it is electrical or magnetic.(their both the same thing anyway)
I think that where the threshold between the fields, is where the answer lies along with induction....
Still trying to learn , not really sure about how "They" explain what is really taking place.
artv

[citfta]

Hi shylo,

Thanks for the kind comments. Yes I agree completely there seems to be something different about pulsing versus a steady power force. We saw in the experiments with the Tesla Switch that strange things started to happen when the pulses got shorter and faster. And if you look at the Watson/Bedini machine it seems to be the pulses of the motor hitting the flywheel that give it the extra power needed to keep it going. Even our hearts operate by pulsing and moving our blood in spurts. This is an area I intend to keep researching. I was not trying to say in my previous post that the effect of fast moving magnets is not useful. I was only saying this effect has already been seen and used by others and they didn't give it a name or claim it was some unknown property of a magnet. And I hope my explanation of how it works was useful.

Respectfully, Carroll

[shylo]

Timing

I'd like your opinion, ...does the field collapse gradually, or is abrupt?
Sorry for being off topic.
Just wondering......artv

[citfta]

No off topics on this thread

Hi shylo,

Since this is an open discussion thread there are no off topics here.

To try and answer your question as best I can here is the way I understand it. The speed of the collapse is directly proportional to the resistance in the part of the circuit that allows current to flow from one end of the coil to the other. In other words if the return path is of high resistance the discharge will be very quick. If the return path is of low resistance the discharge will be slower. You can observe this on a scope. In the Bedini SSG circuit for instance you can see the very sharp rise and fall times of the spike.

To better understand how this works we need to remember what an inductor is. An inductor resists changes in current flow. When we try to turn on a coil the current flow is restricted until the inductance is overcome. When we turn off the coil the current wants to keep flowing. Now if the current has a low resistance path the current will continue to flow and the magnetic field will slowly collapse at about the same rate as it rose. However if the current is not allowed to flow easily then the voltage has to build to a level high enough to discharge the coil. The extra energy needed to raise the voltage causes the field to collapse more quickly.

Another analogy is to compare the coil to a flywheel. Someone else shared this idea with me a couple of years ago. Think of getting a flywheel up to speed. We apply power and the flywheel starts spinning. Now if we apply a low resistance drag to the flywheel it will slowly come to a stop. However if we apply a sudden high resistance drag the flywheel will stop quickly with a jerk. The sudden jerk to a stop is the equivalent of the higher voltage we get when we discharge a coil into a higher resistance.

Hope these ideas help you understand inductors.

Respectfully, Carroll

[boguslaw]

Hi shylo,

Since this is an open discussion thread there are no off topics here.

To try and answer your question as best I can here is the way I understand it. The speed of the collapse is directly proportional to the resistance in the part of the circuit that allows current to flow from one end of the coil to the other. In other words if the return path is of high resistance the discharge will be very quick. If the return path is of low resistance the discharge will be slower. You can observe this on a scope. In the Bedini SSG circuit for instance you can see the very sharp rise and fall times of the spike.

To better understand how this works we need to remember what an inductor is. An inductor resists changes in current flow. When we try to turn on a coil the current flow is restricted until the inductance is overcome. When we turn off the coil the current wants to keep flowing. Now if the current has a low resistance path the current will continue to flow and the magnetic field will slowly collapse at about the same rate as it rose. However if the current is not allowed to flow easily then the voltage has to build to a level high enough to discharge the coil. The extra energy needed to raise the voltage causes the field to collapse more quickly.

Another analogy is to compare the coil to a flywheel. Someone else shared this idea with me a couple of years ago. Think of getting a flywheel up to speed. We apply power and the flywheel starts spinning. Now if we apply a low resistance drag to the flywheel it will slowly come to a stop. However if we apply a sudden high resistance drag the flywheel will stop quickly with a jerk. The sudden jerk to a stop is the equivalent of the higher voltage we get when we discharge a coil into a higher resistance.

Hope these ideas help you understand inductors.

Respectfully, Carroll

Now question arise : what kind of resistance is empty capacitor and what kind is almost fully charged capacitor ? Let's see something interesting : we take big capacitor with very low ESR and empty one and we connect that way so when coil connection to power source is interrupted , capacitor is connected to coil. Next we try the same with fully charged capacitor BUT do you see what I mean by FULLY CHARGED ? Yeah, I bet you see it.... It's kind of stupid question, remember always try to ask more and my advice is to immediately put this in right position asking :
In what context ?