Open discussion for projects on this forum.

[citfta]

Hi voltan,

Thanks for sharing what you are doing. I am not aware of anyone doing anything with the JT and using it in a metal detector circuit. Maybe someone else will join in and tell you if they have seen anyone do that. Let us know how it all turns out for you.

Thanks,
Carroll

[voltan]

cheers carroll.it's good to have somewhere to post this concept on E.F.there are hundreds of metal detector circuits on the net,but i think there are a few tricks that the voodoo electricity community can bring to the table, like slightly conical pancake coils are said to be more 1 directional in their emissions/reception.(not sure if it's just more focused on 1 side or if their is a halbach array type effect,(1 directional), with pancake coils made into a cone). i don't think any conventional ground detectors mainly propagate energy downwards.maybe a deeper cone could almost beam the transmitted energy, possibly with some sort of reflector as well.ground penetrating radar on a budget.
i don't know how the performance of the finished project will compare to commercial units, but i was pleased to find success with my first dabble with 4 pin opto isolators,and at this stage it looks like 2-4 of those little solar panels from garden lights mounted on my hat could keep the batteries charged indefinitely.
i'm eager to play with the dvc speaker as well. i think any time you have a motor/generator/transformer in 1 unit,there is knowledge to be gained,if not magic to be found.
cheers.

[genessc]

Hi Carroll,

Actually the L value DOES change with frequency. Not alot but it moves about for sure. Thats why I bought the B&K 878A meter that could measure at 120hz and 1khz... so I could see that affect, at frequency.

So the same is true of Capacity as well. The value changes with frequency.

Do you consider the inductance on a capacitor real? or imgainary?

Also the same for capacitance measured on an inductor?

For the inductor I went and measured capacity, noted it, then found a capacitor of the right value and put it in parallel and remeasured it with the LCR meter and since the measured initial capacity value on the inductance and the capacitor value itself was the same the "measured" capacity went to ZERO, or near enough to zero. That told me that the capacity on an inductance is not capacity like is in a capacitor since that component added to the system didn't double the already measured value.

.... a week passed...

And oddly the edits were still here when I got back... Will just post at this point... cheers... (might be way out of sequence since its been a week... )

Gene

Hi guys,

I have just realized I made a mistake with the information I posted in post #382. I was posting about the value of the windings in the pump motor and the windings of the transformer I was using. I gave those values as impedance. That is NOT correct. Those values are actually the inductance values of the windings.

As gene has pointed out the impedance value changes as the frequency changes. However the inductance value does not change. Sorry for the confusion. I just wasn't paying attention to what I posted.

A couple of quick lessons for those of you trying to understand some of this electronic stuff. As the frequency goes up the impedance goes up for an inductor. Conversely as the frequency goes down the impedance goes up for a capacitor. The actual impedance value will depend on the inductance and the frequency or the capacitance and frequency. And as gene also pointed out all devices have some of each although we usually ignore very small capacitance values or very small inductance values.

If you are not overloaded yet here is one more little tidbit. Just remember the saying "Eli the Ice man" ELI meaning voltage leads current in an inductor. And ICE meaning current leads voltage in a capacitor. This makes sense if you remember in electronics E stands for voltage and I stands for current. Also C stands for a capacitor and L stands for an inductor.

Later,
Carroll

[genessc]

Yeap, shipping data shows it should arrive at the beginning of May.

Nothing like buying books in hard format for use eh? beats any ebook any day of the week... (no power needed.)

Will see what it shares once I get it. Hopefully it has some practical experiment to replicate to see the effect for myself on my bench.

Gene

I am also interested in this as it relates to the Tesla impulse. Here is a preview of what you have coming saying that the ampere force law experiment is detailed in that book.... hope you share, the book price on Amazon just now was almost four hundred.

The following is quoted from a pdf that I have....

"The Ampère force law confirms a number of important
experimental facts. Amongst them is the behavior of the
electro-dynamic impulse pendulum. Pappas3 of the
University of Athens was the first to discover that the performance
of the impulse pendulum could not be explained
without Ampère’s force law which invalidates the Lorentz
law and casts doubt over the entire edifice of the Maxwell-
Einstein relativistic electromagnetism. This experiment is
explained at length in Newtonian Electrodynamics,1 plus other
tests which specifically demonstrate the longitudinal force
component which acts in the direction of current in a conductor.
This component is entirely lacking in the Lorentz
force which is always completely perpendicular to the direction
of electric current. This longitudinal force component
creates tension in conductors, which is often observed qualitatively
in the behavior of exploding wires and more quantitatively
in specifically constructed experiments. Most significantly,
the Newtonian electrodynamics developed by Ampère, Neumann, Kirchoff and others simply disappeared from textbooks at the beginning of the 20th century. This isa serious scientific crisis which will hopefully inspire adventurous physicists to face the issue and return electromagnetic
theory and its wider physical implications to their empirical
early 19th century integrity."

[genessc]

Howdy Carroll,

You noted:
"I have my magnets on the SSG mounted crosswise to the edge of the wheel. When holding the pump motor windings next to the wheel I had the pump motor held crosswise also so that the longest part of the laminations matched the longest dimension of the magnets. Since the SSG has all magnets facing north out you get an interesting waveform on the scope. As the magnet approaches one side of the laminations you get a small negative pulse. As the magnet gets centered over the laminations you get a strong positive pulse. And then again as the magnet is leaving and going past the other side of the laminations you get a small negative pulse."

This is the waveform on the corporate logo for Broadcom:

Home | Broadcom

That waveform is produced because your magnet is impacting the coils laminates from the Side instead of from the Top.

Its interesting because the main pulse produced has directional amplitude in the SAME direction that the wheels moving... and not much in the way of an inversion between impulses, just those two small before/after pulses that lead/follow the main amplitude wave.

Aside from the above, I also did an experiment with the modular pump motor and removed the laminates leaving the coils and rotor in their usual relation and ran the thing up... and it got next to nothing output, maybe 30-40vac sine at 7200rpmish... so the laminates are needed on the drain pump to get the high sine peaks that result...

Will be curious to hear how it goes if you go this route.

Take care,
Gene

Hello again Gene,

I have been playing around again with the pump motor. I took the windings and laminations off the rotor assembly. Then I tried passing a magnet past the end of the laminations. I wanted to see if I could get some power with the magnet going by the end of the laminations instead of rotating inside the laminations. That does work.

I got the idea from watching a video that Dave posted in the Basic Free Energy Machine thread. The video showed a man with a set up of a wheel and magnets and a coil arrangement like the Leedskelin PMH. As the magnet passed between the ends of the PMH type coil lamination it generated power and if loaded it caused the wheel to speed up. I got to wondering if the fact the coils were not at the end might have something to do with the speeding up of the wheel. He also showed the current going to the motor went down as the wheel sped up.

The only thing I have right at the moment to test with is my old Bedini SSG which let me hold the pump motor coil and laminations close to it and see what I got. Using a bridge rectifier on the output I was able to charge a cap to 20 volts or so. And of course the SSG was only turning about 150 rpm and the magnets are spaced apart too. As far as I could tell the wheel did not slow down any when I was charging the cap or when I shorted out the pump motor.

I have my magnets on the SSG mounted crosswise to the edge of the wheel. When holding the pump motor windings next to the wheel I had the pump motor held crosswise also so that the longest part of the laminations matched the longest dimension of the magnets. Since the SSG has all magnets facing north out you get an interesting waveform on the scope. As the magnet approaches one side of the laminations you get a small negative pulse. As the magnet gets centered over the laminations you get a strong positive pulse. And then again as the magnet is leaving and going past the other side of the laminations you get a small negative pulse.

What I want to do now is make a rotor with some alternating magnets and mount the coil close by and turn the rotor at a higher speed and see if I get the same effect I was getting when shorting out the transformer. I am going to have to make a trip to town I think to get some materials to make a good rotor so I can test this idea.

My thinking is if this works then you could go around to some appliance repair places and maybe get them to give you a bunch of bad pumps. From the two I have it seems the bearings wear out before anything else goes bad. Since I am not using the bearings I wouldn't care if the rotor and bearings were bad. This would eliminate about half the expense of building a generator as the wire for the coils is a big part of the expense. After that you only have the expense of the building the rotor and the expense of the magnets for the rotor. Another advantage would be all your coils would be the same and fairly high precision also.

If you get a chance to check out this idea let me know what you think.

Later,
Carroll

[genessc]

The middle pic you shared Voltan was noting the battery 2 on the right side upside down, which seems wrong given the diode placement on the right side of that schematic. You are allowing the positive flow into the negative of the right side battery... versus allowing the negative flow into the negative side... (the diode on the top right would need to be reversed, however the *right* correction would be to flip the right side battery so its positive pole was on top and negative on bottom.)

This would allow the charge pulse into the C in the middle to be affected by the inductance while charging up C, and then when it connects C to the inductance on the right, the discharge from C into the charge battery (aka the right battery) should then potentially get a few extra volts due the self inductance of the coil maybe...

Thats pretty much beardens idea that he drew up in the "Energy from the Vacuum" book he wrote about 20 years back now...

Anyways maybe thats helpful.
Gene

cheers carroll.it's good to have somewhere to post this concept on E.F.there are hundreds of metal detector circuits on the net,but i think there are a few tricks that the voodoo electricity community can bring to the table, like slightly conical pancake coils are said to be more 1 directional in their emissions/reception.(not sure if it's just more focused on 1 side or if their is a halbach array type effect,(1 directional), with pancake coils made into a cone). i don't think any conventional ground detectors mainly propagate energy downwards.maybe a deeper cone could almost beam the transmitted energy, possibly with some sort of reflector as well.ground penetrating radar on a budget.
i don't know how the performance of the finished project will compare to commercial units, but i was pleased to find success with my first dabble with 4 pin opto isolators,and at this stage it looks like 2-4 of those little solar panels from garden lights mounted on my hat could keep the batteries charged indefinitely.
i'm eager to play with the dvc speaker as well. i think any time you have a motor/generator/transformer in 1 unit,there is knowledge to be gained,if not magic to be found.
cheers.

[citfta]

Hello Gene,

Well I have done some more since I last posted about the pump motor. I first just held it against the outside of my window motor and ran the window motor to see what I could get. I got about 50 volts or so in that configuration. I then decided to remove one of the window motor coils to mount the pump motor coil and laminations. I cut a hole in the window motor housing (PVC pipe) and made some spacers to hold the end of the laminations about 1/4 " away from the neo magnets on the rotor of the window motor. When I tried to turn this by hand it had some very bad cogging because of the strength of the neo magnets. I decided to try and run it anyway to see what would happen. I was very surprised that the modified scooter motor could handle that heavy cogging but it revved right up with no problem. Probably because of the help of the flywheel.

When I checked the voltage I had almost 300 volts AC coming from the pump motor windings. I then connected it to the 480 volt side of the transformer and saw I was getting about 20 volts after the bridge from the 24 volt output side of the transformer. I was trying to get the voltage down to a level where it would be useful.

When I connected a battery (lawn and garden tractor size) to the bridge the battery starting charging right up with no apparent loading of the drive motor. However if I shorted the output of the transformer I did see and hear some slowing down of the drive motor. However I could still short the output directly from the pump motor coils and not see or hear any slowing down of the drive motor.

I next added a second pump motor coil assembly to the window motor housing to try and reduce the cogging effect. This did help the cogging and also increased my rpm from about 3340 rpm before to about 3400. It also reduced the current draw from 8.5 amps to about 8 amps.

After running the system for about 10 minutes or so the laminations are starting to warm up more than I would like. I feel sure in a long run of several hours they would get very hot. I believe this is caused by the very strong neos I have on the rotor of the window motor. I have ordered several ceramic magnets to build a generator using the pump motors and the ceramic magnets. I believe this will be better in three ways. First it will eliminate the heavy cogging which should lower my current draw. Secondly it will lower my output voltage to a more useful level. And the third thing is the laminations should not heat up nearly as much as with the neos.

I have attached a picture of two of the pump motor coils mounted on the window motor. I also was able today to pick up another pump motor from a local appliance repair place for $2. He said he would call me when he gets some more of them. He had just recently gotten rid of a bunch of them. Just my luck.

These have turned to be some interesting little motors to play with. Thanks for bringing them to my attention.

Later,
Carroll

PS: Glad to see you back again.

[voltan]

hi gene. pic 2 is straight out of vlad's 93 page pdf and is correct.something not immediately apparent is the cap in the middle reverses polarity with every hit.the dmm is a bit flaky at quicker rates of switching,but slowed down i see glimpses of 60v +/- on the .47uf cap when there is 15 v - 25 v across the 2 big caps.the higher the voltage on the little cap and the slower the switching rate the faster the dmm sucks it down.i got a small inductor hooked up to headphones to monitor the clicks audibly.they build up rapidly on powering up the circuit and sound nice and even.
and your right. the collapsing field in the inductors,(1 in my case,pic 1), is essential for the voltage rise, as well as clean switching.if you got 15v across the 2 big caps and the .47 lands on 60v there is a 67.5v event at every switch over.really the .47uf goes from 60v+ to 60v- and vice-versa at every switching event, so maybe you could call it a 120v event. not sure about that though. and the diodes trap the overshoot every time.most of the sting is always in the little cap. so i would always use a film block cap as it works pretty hard in this app. it's sort of like re-using the power from the last event every time. hope that clarifies things.
i think in years to come, the fact that you can use the same bit of power more than once, or a good portion of it, if you do it right, will come to be regarded as the best kept secret of the 20th century.
cheers.

[Turion]

Carroll,
I see washing machine drain pump motors on eBay for $16 to over $100.00 and not sure which one to invest in. Going to the local place tomorrow, but would be helpful to know what the heck I am looking for. I know it has been posted on the threads somewhere, but I am going 8 different directions right now. My machinist is coming into town tomorrow morning to bring me parts for my generator. He is driving 2 1/2 hours to get here from where I used to live because he wants to see this thing run. He was there the first time I started it up and got all excited, and has been along for the ride as we made changes to fix problems. He wants to be here for the big finish. LOL

Dave

[citfta]

Dave.

Are you not getting the pictures I have been sending to you by email? I sent you a picture yesterday of one that was complete and then a picture of it after I had taken off the pump part and plastic housing. I'll check ebay and see if I can post a link to the correct one here. This is one of them on ebay. But the same type is used on GE, Kenmore and I was told also on Samsung.

W10276397 Used Whirlpool Washer Drain Pump | eBay

Carroll

[genessc]

Hi Voltan, if that works for you great. I can't see how it would work since the right side is setup in blocking config due that diode but I'll leave it there as I'm not intending to build it.

Cheers!
Gene

hi gene. pic 2 is straight out of vlad's 93 page pdf and is correct.something not immediately apparent is the cap in the middle reverses polarity with every hit.the dmm is a bit flaky at quicker rates of switching,but slowed down i see glimpses of 60v +/- on the .47uf cap when there is 15 v - 25 v across the 2 big caps.the higher the voltage on the little cap and the slower the switching rate the faster the dmm sucks it down.i got a small inductor hooked up to headphones to monitor the clicks audibly.they build up rapidly on powering up the circuit and sound nice and even.
and your right. the collapsing field in the inductors,(1 in my case,pic 1), is essential for the voltage rise, as well as clean switching.if you got 15v across the 2 big caps and the .47 lands on 60v there is a 67.5v event at every switch over.really the .47uf goes from 60v+ to 60v- and vice-versa at every switching event, so maybe you could call it a 120v event. not sure about that though. and the diodes trap the over-run every time.most of the sting is always in the little cap. so i would always use a film block cap as it works pretty hard in this app. it's sort of like re-using the power from the last event every time. hope that clarifies things.
i think in years to come, the fact that you can use the same bit of power more than once, or a good portion of it, if you do it right, will come to be regarded as the best kept secret of the 20th century.
cheers.

[genessc]

The book came yesterday and I cracked it and read the first few chapters. Turns out the ampere longitudinal force is really only present with amp discharges of 100kA to 1000kA and the force manifests as an inward pressing instantaneous stress which then causes the conductors to go brittle and if the current is held ON long enough the conductor fractures and develops plasma carriers over the fractures maintaining the current flow as long as the current is applied. Once the current is removed then the conductors are reviewed and noted to have failed in such fashion.

The one thing that was interesting is the function of the parallel strands on common plane... bedini made that parallel strands on Common Axis of alignment... so its possible that this applied ampere force is whats being used to Hyper charge caps since Bulk Currents of an instantaneous nature could be induced by short duration impulses which then should in theory Squeeze the current into the stator using this longitudinal ampere force as the mechanism for localizing that charge on the stator.

Still have about half the book to read thru but the second half is about rail guns and arc-explosion events. I did note that the author called out the louder harder hitting lightning discharges of the shortest duration to be the events that induce a Cooling effect, while the same lightning discharge held for a little longer struck arc at lower volt potentials is what results in the localized Heating of the area... So this is probably what Most people are noting when they feel heat or cooling from their device...

Cheers,
Gene

I am also interested in this as it relates to the Tesla impulse. Here is a preview of what you have coming saying that the ampere force law experiment is detailed in that book.... hope you share, the book price on Amazon just now was almost four hundred.

The following is quoted from a pdf that I have....

"The Ampère force law confirms a number of important
experimental facts. Amongst them is the behavior of the
electro-dynamic impulse pendulum. Pappas3 of the
University of Athens was the first to discover that the performance
of the impulse pendulum could not be explained
without Ampère’s force law which invalidates the Lorentz
law and casts doubt over the entire edifice of the Maxwell-
Einstein relativistic electromagnetism. This experiment is
explained at length in Newtonian Electrodynamics,1 plus other
tests which specifically demonstrate the longitudinal force
component which acts in the direction of current in a conductor.
This component is entirely lacking in the Lorentz
force which is always completely perpendicular to the direction
of electric current. This longitudinal force component
creates tension in conductors, which is often observed qualitatively
in the behavior of exploding wires and more quantitatively
in specifically constructed experiments. Most significantly,
the Newtonian electrodynamics developed by Ampère, Neumann, Kirchoff and others simply disappeared from textbooks at the beginning of the 20th century. This isa serious scientific crisis which will hopefully inspire adventurous physicists to face the issue and return electromagnetic
theory and its wider physical implications to their empirical
early 19th century integrity."

[Turion]

Carroll,
Last email I got was Saturday. Matt said he got one since with pictures and info about the coils on the water pump motor, but I didn't. Those men in black are at it again!
Dave

[citfta]

Check your emails again Dave and let me know if you got some I just sent. I think the problem is on my end with me learning a new email program.

Carroll

[Turion]

Got a BUNCH! LOL. Thanks!