Open discussion for projects on this forum.

[mbrownn]

Great guys, I think the penny is starting to drop

Two others on this forum have actively worked on this and used starter/generators, yes they have four poles and seem quite good for experimenting. The main drawback I can see from these devices is they have a relatively large airgap between the armature and shoes, but that is easily remedied by placing a steel shim behind them. Another advantage is they have two different size windings on the stator.

It is highly unlikely that you will get more out than in with just this, although it is theoretically possible when we do a few other mods. As I said, this is only one part of the Lockridge device.

The shoes are the pieces of metal that the field coils are wound around, just my name for them.

Im not sure there is a common ground as we have a lot going on in this device. I did not use a common ground although the case was one of the terminals, but that is just how starter motors are made.

shylo, the armature looks like a reasonable candidate for making a motor/generator like I suggest but the field coils and shoes are too big, maybe the same manufacturer has smaller ones from a four pole device that will fit. While 14 slots isn't perfect, it is an even number which is very important. This makes the 28 segment commutator ideal for this armature. A nice find.

Im sure the two other researchers who have actually built some of this will chip in once they see what we are talking about. We may even get some constructive advice from several others that I have shared this info with.

[mbrownn]

Information on my simple winding is posted here http://www.energeticforum.com/275695-post33.html

[Turion]

citfta,
I went ahead and ordered one of those
New Starter Generator Club Car FE290 FE350 DS Series 1996 2006 1018294 01 | eBay

I have no idea WHY. I am so busy with so many projects that who knows if I will EVER have the time to work on this, but if I do, at least I'll have the darn thing. I'll send you some pictures of what it looks like when I pull the case off. Out of town for a week or so and have a buddy staying at my place, so hopefully he will be there when my packages arrive. I think UPS comes to my house every day. Mostly stuff for my wife, Gadget Girl, but I have been on a spending spree lately. Done now though, until my next big check comes in.

Dave

[shylo]

Hi Carroll, I wound that motor 2 years ago, sorry no pictures of comm.(it had 16sections with 4 brushes)
Each coil was bi-filar connected to the comm, so it fired when centered between the magnets,(4 stator magnets).
It ran pretty good , I also had added 4 collector brushes ,but I don't think the coils were very good for generating since they didn't use the magnetic fields properly.
My new wind is on the same motor I've used that motor for about 10 different designs, It's starting to get beat up pretty bad.
In the process of testing , and I always use Daves 3BGS for supply but one of my primaries is behaving strange.
It holds charge like normal until it drops to about 12.4- 12.3 ,then it just drops like a rock 9.5 - 8.5. I then have to recharge it back to full before resuming.
Pita
Time for new battery and another motor wouldn't hurt.
artv

[mbrownn]

citfta,
I went ahead and ordered one of those
New Starter Generator Club Car FE290 FE350 DS Series 1996 2006 1018294 01 | eBay

I have no idea WHY. I am so busy with so many projects that who knows if I will EVER have the time to work on this, but if I do, at least I'll have the darn thing. I'll send you some pictures of what it looks like when I pull the case off. Out of town for a week or so and have a buddy staying at my place, so hopefully he will be there when my packages arrive. I think UPS comes to my house every day. Mostly stuff for my wife, Gadget Girl, but I have been on a spending spree lately. Done now though, until my next big check comes in.

Dave

I took a look at that generator on line, The end caps are aluminium which is good and the brushes look easy to thin out too. The shoes are removable and it is 4 pole. It looks easy to strip and will be easy to slot but thats the end of the good news. I cant see how many slots there are in the armature but judging by the commutator I would say there are twice as many segments as slots, If its an even number then the armature is good. The brush holders aren’t adjustable but if you had two of them you might be able to put them back to back to get them closer together with only 2 brushes on each plate. I have no Idea how you would adjust that. With all that said, its better than what I have been working with

[Turion]

Once I get the thing and get it apart, we'll see if it's any good for this purpose and what modifications need to be done or parts need to be made to make it adjustable. Those we can figure out, and we have the technology to do it. If it works out, they have several in stock, and we will have a part number to order from other places than eBay,so I thought it worth the risk. I'll figure out SOMETHING to use it for if it doesn't work out.

Dave

[Matthew Jones]

Shelf filler!!

[shylo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MDa...ature=youtu.be
Hi Carroll, Here is a single pole face wound as you suggested .
Curious as to why when the transformer is connected and charging caps that the amp draw goes down?
Thanks artv

[citfta]

Hi art,

From watching the video it is not exactly clear what is going on with the transformer connection. Are you taking the AC from the transformer and going through the bridge and then to the caps to smooth the DC and then to the motor? It sounds like the motor is not getting the same voltage from the transformer as it was from the battery. The motor just appears to be running much faster from the battery. That is why I think it is not getting as much voltage from the transformer. I really couldn't see the meters clearly enough to tell what was going on with them. If the voltage is lower from the transformer that would explain the lower current draw also.

Thanks for taking the time to wind that coil configuration and testing it. I have been very busy lately with other things and have not had time to rewind a motor like that to test it. I want to wind one that way and also the way mbrownn has his wound.

Later,
Carroll

[Matthew Jones]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MDa...ature=youtu.be
Hi Carroll, Here is a single pole face wound as you suggested .
Curious as to why when the transformer is connected and charging caps that the amp draw goes down?
Thanks artv

The transformer is just acting as a current limiter, or choke, choking the current.

Matt

[shylo]

Just learning how to post videos, After I watched it ,it was pretty lame.
With the transformer I was putting the bottom coil in series with the comm, Pin , thinking the pulsing would induce the top coil, which I am feeding to the cap bank,but when I do that , the amp draw should increase right??
But it goes down?
So by charging the caps does it just steal amps from the motor, thats why it slows down?
Matt, if it is a choke, what charges the caps?
Do they need current or potential?
Is charging a cap bank not considered a load?
Thanks artv

[mbrownn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MDa...ature=youtu.be
Hi Carroll, Here is a single pole face wound as you suggested .
Curious as to why when the transformer is connected and charging caps that the amp draw goes down?
Thanks artv

Matt is correct, placing a transformer in series, if that is what you have done, does the following:-

1) it places an ohmic resistance in the circuit causing a voltage drop on the motor, therefore reducing current under ohms law.

2 It places an inductive impedance in the circuit which has a similar effect to the one above.

As your motor has an off time, the transformer will reset its impedance every time it switched off. This is why it appears to have a higher resistance than with a standard DC motor.

The energy stored in the impedance should be transferred to the capacitor, less losses.

If you had a field coil, instead of a magnet, and placed a diode between the output of the field coil and the input of the transformer you may see a gain in the amount that goes into the capacitor from the secondary. You could place such a diode across the transformer alone and see if you get a gain but as it does not have the extra inductance of the field coil, I doubt it.

Place the capacitor across the battery, separated by a diode and you will see a reduced input from the battery. Same motor torque and reduced input = better overall efficiency.

Remember mechanical power is an output too, so include that in your calculations. This is something often overlooked when doing calculations with a Bedini SG.

Loading the motor will also effect the charge going to the capacitor, you will find that there is a speed where you get the best compromise between load on the motor and recovery. A sweet spot. If the inductance of the transformer is too low, this speed may be faster than the motor runs.

Do you have recovery brushes on the armature?

[citfta]

Hi Art.

I had some time this morning to watch the video again. I didn't understand the first time that the transformer was connected in series with the motor. I agree with the explanations Matt and Mbrownn gave. It is interesting that you only have two coils on the armature yet it is drawing 5 amps and seems to be getting to some pretty good rpms. It appears you have a motor that is generating a pretty low BEMF. That is why it is revving so high when fed with full voltage and current.

I really need to get busy and wind a motor with all poles wound like you have done so I can test it. Right now very busy trying to catch up on yard work between the rains. The grass and bushes have gotten out of control. LOL.

Carroll

[shylo]

Ok thanks for the explanations , Lets see if I understand, so by going through the transformer ,it adds resistance to the circuit, E=IxR, increasing R reduces I? And this reduces power P=ExI ,that's why the motor slows down?
I want to measure the resistance of the circuit ,do I just measure at the battery terminals, is that the proper way?

To Mbrownn, I have no collector brushes yet ,but am going to make some.
The brushes in the video were just a quick mount ,gonna make a better setup.
I have used collector brushes in the past as you stated where the collector is in contact with the input for an instant, but found that in that design you're really just sipping at your power supply.
As for the cut stator housing ,I'm going to try and mount opposite pole magnets of the one underneath , but in separated strips as many as I can fit in, to see how that works.
artv

[mbrownn]

Ok thanks for the explanations , Lets see if I understand, so by going through the transformer ,it adds resistance to the circuit, E=IxR, increasing R reduces I? And this reduces power P=ExI ,that's why the motor slows down?
I want to measure the resistance of the circuit ,do I just measure at the battery terminals, is that the proper way?

You can do that to measure the ohmic resistance. The impedance or inductance of the coil, also creates a resistance so just measuring the resistance you will find the figures dont add up.


To Mbrownn, I have no collector brushes yet ,but am going to make some.
The brushes in the video were just a quick mount ,gonna make a better setup.
I have used collector brushes in the past as you stated where the collector is in contact with the input for an instant, but found that in that design you're really just sipping at your power supply.
As for the cut stator housing ,I'm going to try and mount opposite pole magnets of the one underneath , but in separated strips as many as I can fit in, to see how that works.
artv[/QUOTE]It all depends upon the circuit of the collector brushes, some circuits will sip at the supply, others wont.

Splitting the case is for when you have a 4 pole motor with a 2 pole armature, such as in my motors. The field poles have to be somewhat less than 90 degrees wide. This may work against you with the armature in the video.