Open discussion for projects on this forum.

[RAMSET]

alman
why the SA comment here instead of at the big "come see the Pedophile here" billboard on the front page of an energy forum which hopes to attract youngsters ?

besides what I feel is grossly inappropriate ,I had attempted to inform
administration of the feeding frenzy surrounding this scandal and how with but a few clicks on the search tittle the children who were attacked were becoming
increasingly vulnerable due to details which were shared By the assailant
as well as others who hate him so much they revealed way too much about the victims and their locations.
here it was suggested I should chill because the Molester had shared these things with his own mouth .

I personally feel we should never let the molester set the bar for how to protect children from public humiliation.

maybe putting yourself in their place at their school listening to their classmates talk about this ??
horrible stuff for sure.. every last bit of it.

and alman I am not addressing you above .

my request was merely to remove the Billboard and trigger words from the tittle or loose it off the front page.

regarding the rest of your comments , I am sending you a PM

thanks for your response.

respectfully
Chet

[erfinder]

I believe Erfinder cascades with his device too. Aln

What has this belief about what I am doing gained you? I tried sharing with you people.....you all demonstrate over and over again that what I am saying doesn't compute, not my problem. Do not reference me unless you "know" what I am doing! This isn't an impossible task because I told you what I was doing, SAVVY!

[RAMSET]

maybe while some people are tuning their FE business models and counting their cash they should keep an eye to the sky and the air ...

https://www.superstation95.com/index.php/world/990

yeah no need to rush things along 20-- 40 years should be just fine !

we have plenty of time in the land of plenty...

[alman]

just enjoy seeing you around erfinder

What has this belief about what I am doing gained you? I tried sharing with you people.....you all demonstrate over and over again that what I am saying doesn't compute, not my problem. Do not reference me unless you "know" what I am doing! This isn't an impossible task because I told you what I was doing, SAVVY!

I was thinking of the following when I wrote above:

When it was observed that I was paying for driving the load, and major drops in speed, I changed gears. If I am going to pay "extra" for operating the load, it it might as well be for something that I can benefit from immediately. It was here that a second circuit was introduced which was supplied by the recovery capacitor. The recovery from this second circuit can technically be considered as a "free" lunch if for no other reason because its:
.....recovered recovery..... Send the "recovered recovery" through your comparator cap dump circuit, after you have used the recovery to increase your torque.

(in esf)

-I have gained nothing from my belief in what you are doing... yet
-You tried earnestly in your effort, and I am dense, busy, and probably do not have what it takes to make it compute.
-I can not say that I "know" anything as I do not have one of your machines in front of me, my own fault.
-impossible task if no effort is put in
-I have respected your wishes to not publically dissect your writings and more recently have dusted them off (figuratively) as many obstacles have come my way since we were conversing a few years ago. Your methods make sense to me, I am not your enemy. See me as you choose. I will give you the benefit of the doubt.
Aln

[bistander]

Coil resistance

I am starting this thread for open discussion for those people who would like to discuss projects that are going on on this forum...Technical questions and others have resulted in flame wars and serious name calling. This thread is for serious discussion ONLY! There will be no flaming or name calling. If you disagree with another poster please state why you disagree with your technical discussion only. We can disagree without being disagreeable!
...

Coil resistance.

So I follow current posts in active threads and see this the other day.

Hello,

You could try winding a Secondary Coil, much finer wire (do the conversion math, gauge/#turns=resistance), equivalent (more-less) to 470 Ohms, ...

Regards

Ufopolitics

I'm not sure how "on-topic" it is. But the equation doesn't look correct to me. So I post:

Hi Ufo,

I've done a lot of work with coils and have never come across that relationship. "gauge/#turns=resistance"
Could you please elaborate? Is resistance in Ohms and gauge in AWG# wire size?

This is just a simple request and I'll not comment further as not to sidetrack this thread.

Thanks in advance,

bi

He responds:

Bistander,

The basic Gauge/Resistance Charts are based on linear length/gauge (given in either awg or mm) equals resistance (Length(L)=Resistance(R), And from there anyone could do the math by using either Area (for square/rectangular cores/shape) or Diameter to calculate circumference (length) for cylindrical cores...

Particularly it is not simple to measure long threads of wire when winding large coils for either motors or generators...unless you have a spool to spool transfer tool, with a counter...I don't.


Cheers


Ufopolitics

So am I'm missing something? Does a reader without knowledge on the subject think that coil resistance = AWG/turns, like #24 wire / 200 turns = 0.12 Ohms?

And what does the core area of the coil have to do with the resistance?

I think it is just double talk from Ufo. Thought I'd post in this thread as not to interrupt other threads.

Regards,

bi

[citfta]

Hi Bi,

Glad to see you are still around.

Well I can see what he is saying up to a point. If you know the circumference of the coil you can figure the length and using the wire gauge chart calculate the resistance. But the problem with that is most coils have a circumference that is constantly changing as you add layers of wire. So the wire length of a turn at the inside of the coil could end up being much shorter than the length of a wire turn on the outside of the coil.

By the way a wire measuring tool is very easy to make. Go to Harbor Freight or wherever and buy one of the tools that has a wheel that rides on the ground for measuring distance. Mount it on your bench and make some simple guides to keep the wire going onto the wheel nice and straight and with a single wrap of wire around the wheel. As you pull the wire for your coil the wheel will turn and keep count of how many feet of wire you have used. Turion showed me that trick. Very simple and nice way to wind a bunch of coils and make sure they all have the same amount of wire on them. Much better than trying to count turns and more accurate also.



Carroll

[bistander]

Coil calculation

Well I can see what he is saying up to a point. If you know the circumference of the coil you can figure the length and using the wire gauge chart calculate the resistance. But the problem with that is most coils have a circumference that is constantly changing as you add layers of wire. So the wire length of a turn at the inside of the coil could end up being much shorter than the length of a wire turn on the outside of the coil.

Thanks and nice to see you back. Sure, you need circumference, or more correctly, LMT, which stands for Length Mean Turn. Shop talk for the average length of a single turn on the coil of that size and shape. Then the LMT times the turns per coil (usually N) equals the total wire length in the coil.

But he says "area" referring to a square or rectangular core. It should be obvious to anyone familiar with geometry that the perimeter of a rectangle (2×L+2×W) can vary extensively compared to the area (A=L×W) for the same area having different lengths and widths. The perimeter of a rectangular core would be the length of the wire needed to wrap the first turn around that core. The area of the core tells you little to nothing about the how much wire is needed. A narrow long core will require more wire than a nearly square core having the same area.

That's what I was talking about.

bi

[citfta]

I kinda skipped over that part. But I agree with you. My problem with the resistance wire gauge chart is I have found it to be only an approximation. I have measured what is supposed to be the same wire gauge from different manufacturers and the resistance is not always the same.

By the way there are no "off topics" for this thread except flaming or bashing someone else. I started it with the hopes those with a technical interest could have discussions without upsetting those who want to believe anything they see without regard to reality. At the time I started this thread there were a couple of pretty active threads where the originators of those threads were very opposed to anyone that dared to ask technical questions about what they were doing.

Take care,
Carroll

[Ufopolitics]

Coil resistance.

So I follow current posts in active threads and see this the other day.



I'm not sure how "on-topic" it is. But the equation doesn't look correct to me. So I post:



He responds:



So am I'm missing something? Does a reader without knowledge on the subject think that coil resistance = AWG/turns, like #24 wire / 200 turns = 0.12 Ohms?

And what does the core area of the coil have to do with the resistance?

I think it is just double talk from Ufo. Thought I'd post in this thread as not to interrupt other threads.

Regards,

bi

Bistander,

I believe you are making too much of a big deal on such a simple subject...however, I can see just now, where the whole thing created confusion on your part...since I saw the math operation you did above...

When I wrote "AWG/turns" I never meant to "mathematically divide" awg and #turns, because I utilized the slash sign, ...I just used it to separate both parameters...I could have used a "-"...or a "_"...or even a dot or a comma. So, I am really sorry if my slash sign created such confusion on your end,

Now on the issue about awg, resistance and number of turns...

Please, take a look at this Link's Chart based on AWG/1000 ft/Ohms (and am not dividing awg by 1000ft by ohms, just separating them like I did before...)

Now look at the 10 awg wire at 1000 ft have exactly One (1) Ohm.

So, let's say we are winding a square core where One (1) Turn equals exactly to One (1) Ft ...(which means that the square core has 3 inches per side) Now, If We need One (1) Ohm in that Coil...How many turns of 10 awg we need to do?

We need to do approx 1000 turns...and I said approx because it is never on the spot, since it depends of not just the square area of core, but the depth as well...

I have chosen this 10 AWG because it is exactly 1 Ohm @ 1000ft and makes it easier to understand the conversion from linear to # of turns. However, we could do it with any wire gauge...for example, 20 awg (more realistic than 10 awg) is 10.15 Ohms @ 1000ft...so we need One (1) Ohm at that coil and that is between 98-99 turns...based on the simple and ancient "Rule of Three" method, it gives Us exactly 98.5 turns.

And of course, I know we have to account on the Amps, Volts at circuit, in order to choose the right gauge as well as the room we have at the coil's core.

Hope this time I made myself more "understandable" to you. So, is clear now I was not "Double Talking" there... (Double talk: deliberately unintelligible speech combining nonsense syllables and actual words)....I don't need do that Bistander...as I believe no one on this Forum needs to "double talk" either...

If we look again at that chart...we could notice that one or two or even three turns (1,2 or 3 ft) are not going to make a huge deal of a difference in the total ohms of the coil...so the layers increase could also be insignificant...I believe there is a simple formula to do that, but I don't have the time to get involved in it at this point, really.


Cheers


Ufopolitics

[bistander]

Coil resistance

Bistander,

I believe you are making too much of a big deal on such a simple subject...however, I can see just now, where the whole thing created confusion on your part...since I saw the math operation you did above...

When I wrote "AWG/turns" I never meant to "mathematically divide" awg and #turns, because I utilized the slash sign, ...I just used it to separate both parameters...I could have used a "-"...or a "_"...or even a dot or a comma. So, I am really sorry if my slash sign created such confusion on your end,

Hi Ufo,

Thanks for the reply. I just go by what I see that you typed into your posts. The slash "/" represents the mathematical operation of division. The separation punctuation symbol is the comma ",".

When I wrote "AWG/turns" I never meant to "mathematically divide"

Why then did you immediately follow it with an equal sign?

gauge/#turns=resistance

That sure made it look like an equation to me.

On to a different subject, core area.

...since it depends of not just the square area of core, but the depth as well...

That is the second time you mention core area in relation to coil resistance. So let's use your example. Consider the depth long enough as not to be a factor; in other words, all turns are identical to each other. And consider the core in your example a rectangle instead of a square. A square is a rectangle, right?

So the rectangular core in your example has an area of 9 square inches. Tell me how that area relates to the coil resistance.

Your 3 by 3 inch core had a turn length of 12 inches and an area of 9 sq.in.
A 2 by 4 inch core would also have a turn length of 12 inches but an area of 8 sq.in.
A 1 by 5 inch core would have a turn length of 12 inches and an area of 5 sq.in.
And so on.

How does the coil resistance depend on the core area?

Regards,

bi

[Ufopolitics]

Hi Ufo,

Thanks for the reply. I just go by what I see that you typed into your posts. The slash "/" represents the mathematical operation of division. The separation punctuation symbol is the comma ",". bi

Bistander,

So we are "bound/condemned" to use just the comma (,) to separate "items"...who set that law?...Ok, so I love to brake it, so what?...look at my "bound/condemned"...I do it all the time and it don't mean I am "mathematically dividing" bound by condemned what units...??

Bistander, previously...you wrote:

Sure, you need circumference, or more correctly, LMT, which stands for Length Mean Turn. Shop talk for the average length of a single turn on the coil of that size and shape. Then the LMT times the turns per coil (usually N) equals the total wire length in the coil.

Where did you get that term Length "Mean" Turn from...? I google it and all hits I get is Lockheed Martin Corporation Stocks (LMT Stocks...and Wikipedia (your always consulting source) gave me "Licensed Massage Therapist"...on another hit I got "Laredo Morning Times"...are you from Laredo?

Why then did you immediately follow it with an equal sign? That sure made it look like an equation to me.

Because by having those two parameters (gauge AND number of turns) anyone could get the total ohms in any coil, I was abbreviating by using the "equal to" sign.

Now, related to that post where you have started ALL THIS Argument about...the part that you are making such a big deal off...was the LEAST of my concern...meaning that ANYONE here could do such simple operation to obtain a total resistance of a coil. He was just trying to replace that 470 ohm resistor by something else...and I gave him my opinion...that is all.

On to a different subject, core area.

That is the second time you mention core area in relation to coil resistance. So let's use your example. Consider the depth long enough as not to be a factor; in other words, all turns are identical to each other. And consider the core in your example a rectangle instead of a square. A square is a rectangle, right?

So the rectangular core in your example has an area of 9 square inches. Tell me how that area relates to the coil resistance.

Your 3 by 3 inch core had a turn length of 12 inches and an area of 9 sq.in.
A 2 by 4 inch core would also have a turn length of 12 inches but an area of 8 sq.in.
A 1 by 5 inch core would have a turn length of 12 inches and an area of 5 sq.in.
And so on.

How does the coil resistance depend on the core area?

Regards,

bi

There You are again, limiting your understanding capability of discernment by the mathematical application of a word...in this case area.

Area in Math definition results in Square Units...the same as Volume (3D) ends with Cubic Units...

However, the Gauge to Resistance charts are based on Linear Units...not Squared...so, again, do you want to think it twice...in order to realize I was referring to Outside Area of Core?

Reminding you that Area as a noun means "the extent or measurement of a surface, dimension, proportion, etc,etc,etc"

Now, out of all this huge deal you have made out of my so brief comment...I can just conclude that it was obvious you had no idea that Gauge to Resistance conversion charts based on linear units...ever existed.

Otherwise, as smart as I know you are...I am pretty sure you would have figured out ALL by yourself...

Nice talking to you again Bistander...but, unfortunately I would not be able to keep entertaining such interesting conversation any longer...related to Kindergarten Math...


Arrivederci Caro amico




Ufopolitics

[bistander]

Reply to Ufo

Bistander, previously...you wrote:

Sure, you need circumference, or more correctly, LMT, which stands for Length Mean Turn. Shop talk for the average length of a single turn on the coil of that size and shape. Then the LMT times the turns per coil (usually N) equals the total wire length in the coil.

bi

Where did you get that term Length "Mean" Turn from...? I google it and all hits I get is Lockheed Martin Corporation Stocks (LMT Stocks...and Wikipedia (your always consulting source) gave me "Licensed Massage Therapist"...on another hit I got "Laredo Morning Times"...are you from Laredo?

Hi Ufo,

I was able to find various hits on google for Length Mean Turn, or mean length of turn, or mean turn length in the context of electric coils. Many were from old text or engineering books but several were fairly recent papers on motor efficiency and such. In my quote I stated it was shop talk. That was in reference to a job I once had with a company which designed and manufactured coils by the millions.

Regards,

bi

[bistander]

Reply to Ufo

Bistander,

Hi Ufo,

Thanks for the reply. I just go by what I see that you typed into your posts. The slash "/" represents the mathematical operation of division. The separation punctuation symbol is the comma ",".

So we are "bound/condemned" to use just the comma (,) to separate "items"...who set that law?...Ok, so I love to brake it, so what?...look at my "bound/condemned"...I do it all the time and it don't mean I am "mathematically dividing" bound by condemned what units...??

so what?

Words (and symbols) have meanings. When you choose to ignore convention and assign any old meaning to words and symbols which you use, it makes communication difficult, especially in a technical, mathematical or scientific context. A reader not skilled in the subject can easily misinterpret your statements such as that "equation".

gauge/#turns=resistance

To those readers who are familiar with the subject, it makes you appear as though you don't know what you're talking about.

These two posts which followed in the original thread are fine examples of helpful comments using correct mathematical symbols. They are clear and concise. They give a favorable impression of the author to readers, knowledgeable on the subject or not.

Since your simply triggering the base of the transistor there is no reason for massive current to flow there - you might replace the high power resistors with a cap in parallel with a standard 1/4watt resistor. I would start with a .1 uf cap and adjust as necessary for performance. If you know the frequency of the circuit you can adjust the resistance of the cap Xc = 1/ (2pi x F x C ) and use a high value resistor to aid in the initial start up.

Dragon already said most there is to say.
A few minor additions:
The maximum current that you expect to flow through the resistor when using 12V = 12/470 = 26 mA. At 12 V that represents 12V x 26 mA = 0.31 Watt.
So I think a 5W resistor is a bit overkill, 1W would do, and probably 0.5 W would work as well.
So the easiest way to get rid of that resistor is to replace it with a 0.5 W version.

You could also try different values:

With 470 Ohm you will have 26 mA through the base, with an amplification factor of about 40 that will give you roughly 1A (26 mA x 40) through your coil.

With 1000 Ohm you'll have 12 mA through the base, giving roughly 0.5 A through your coil.

The coil has some impedance which will limit the maximum current at a given frequency. So what I would do is try to find that maximum and then adjust the resistors accordingly. Take a handful of 1K5 (1/4W) resistors, start with one and add them one by one in parallel until it makes no more difference.


Ernst.

Regards,

bi

[bistander]

Area?

There You are again, limiting your understanding capability of discernment by the mathematical application of a word...in this case area.

Area in Math definition results in Square Units...the same as Volume (3D) ends with Cubic Units...

However, the Gauge to Resistance charts are based on Linear Units...not Squared...so, again, do you want to think it twice...in order to realize I was referring to Outside Area of Core?

That is unbelievable Ufo. You actually call the linear distance around the outside of the core "area". For clarification please calculate area of a rectangular core 3 inches by 5 inches. Include the units. I really want to see if I understand you correctly.

Thanks,

bi

[citfta]

How can we help those that are trying to learn?

As most of you know if you have been around a while I had given up on this forum for several reasons. Then I was asked to come back so I have been back a few months and nothing has changed all that much. One of the reasons I left was because of the attitude of some of the members of this forum. There are some still around that don't want to be told they might be wrong about what they think they understand.

I was blessed with the opportunity to actually get to work in a field I really enjoyed. That was the area of electronic troubleshooting. I was an industrial maintenance electrician for over 30 years. I loved that job and its challenges.

What really bothers me about this forum is there are those that insist on posting things that I know are just plain wrong. Now I don't care too much if the poster insists on believing whatever but what bothers me is there are those that really do want to learn. So how can they know what to believe when they see so much foolishness posted. I have tried in the past to explain why what was posted was wrong and sometimes it was accepted and understood in the way I had hoped it would be. But many times I have been accused of being a naysayer and sometimes much worse for trying to help. Anyone that has taken the time to read some of my posts would know immediately that I do believe OU may be possible. I have even seen with my own eyes a couple of things I thought might be genuine events of OU.

So what is a person who has a strong background in electronics supposed to do when they see foolishness posted? Do you just ignore it and hope it doesn't lead too many people astray? Or do you try to help by pointing out the mistakes made by the poster or video or whatever is being presented? How can you help without coming across as a know-it-all as I was just called in another thread on this forum? I do know there are several members of this forum that are sincerely trying to learn and are open to help. But there are also some here that will put down anyone that tries to correct mistaken ideas. So what is the answer?

Please keep your comments civil with no name calling.

Respectfully,
Carroll