Wardenclyffe - Tesla's true intention

[dR-Green]

How would he transmit twice the energy of the Niagara falls from Shoreham? Give me 1 good answer to this one and I will drop the idea of Wardenclyffe as a generator of electricity.

I would say via the principle of magnification. You can put more than twice the sun's energy on a certain spot by focusing the scattered light with a magnifying glass. More energy didn't enter the system, it's just a lot more intense where you want it.

[Farmhand]

@ Farmhand,

On your video I see what I tried to capture on video in my experiments but could not.
Between 6'00" and 6'20", you see the light still flickering for a while after the power has been shut off. The length of this effect seems to be proportional (to some extend) to the time the power had been switched on. The frequency of this flickering seems to be the same even when different coils are used.
Does anyone have an explanation for this?

Ernst.

I didn't really notice that, one of the reasons I like to show video's in case I
miss stuff. Do you mean the quick flash just after switch off or the slow glow
down of the tube. The quick flash I think is a late spark input to the primary
the glow down I think could be related to the level the phosphorescence
inside the fluro was energized to ( I think it was a bit over driven) or maybe
the drain off of capacitance.

Not sure. just my first impressions.

I do notice a late spark sometimes, the spark gap doesn't have perfect
spacing. Those break rates were only in the order of 800 or 900 BPS I think
1500 BPS sounds pretty neat.

Cheers

[Ernst]

I would say via the principle of magnification. You can put more than twice the sun's energy on a certain spot by focusing the scattered light with a magnifying glass. More energy didn't enter the system, it's just a lot more intense where you want it.

More energy DID enter the system in this example. You focus the energy caught on the area of the magnifying glass, which is larger than the point that you focus it on and thus it receives more sun light (= energy).
Read the rest of the quoted article and you will see that the Wardenclyffe MT takes 10,000 HP, but emits 10,000,000. The output is 1,000 times the (electrical) input.

Ernst.

[dR-Green]

More energy DID enter the system in this example. You focus the energy caught on the area of the magnifying glass, which is larger than the point that you focus it on and thus it receives more sun light (= energy).

It's still the same amount of energy. Now the area surrounding the spot in the middle has less. Hence a lot more intense where you want it, and less intense elsewhere. No more energy, only a relative measurement in the given area. Notice that the magnifying glass causes a shadow.

[Ernst]

It's still the same amount of energy. Now the area surrounding the spot in the middle has less. Hence a lot more intense where you want it, and less intense elsewhere. No more energy, only a relative measurement in the given area. Notice that the magnifying glass causes a shadow.

True, it depends how you look at it.

But how would this apply to Wardenclyffe? How is the 10K HP input 'focussed' into 10M HP output?

Ernst.

[boguslaw]

Energy is the same but not the instantaneous power (or activity like Tesla described it). Now to convert instantaneous power to increased energy we have to control the work done in long time and let it attract more energy from external source. It's like winding up a spring which released move a hammer which in the end struck the bell. The small energy in one period of time used to wind up the spring is released in short period of time to struck the bell, but the bell vibrate very long time producing high amplitude sound (then sound amplitude fade)...

[Hobby Eon]

Calculations asked.

Can somebody say how many watts and how long it takes to melt titanium ?
And maybe also from aluminium and stainless steel ?
Enlarge this pic 200% to see the dimensions of them.
With your technical skills this must be an easy task for you.

[Ernst]

Can somebody say how many watts and how long it takes to melt titanium ?
And maybe also from aluminium and stainless steel ?
Enlarge this pic 200% to see the dimensions of them.
With your technical skills this must be an easy task for you.

Easy indeed, if only I knew just how much titanium was melted, how hot the not-melted part had become and how much titanium was involved.
Example:
suppose we had 10 ml titanium of which 1 ml melted and the remainder gained half that temperature.
1 ml titanium is 4.54 gr has reached a temperature of 1940 K. (melting point) starting from 20 C that is a temperature rise of 1647 K. It needs 520 J/K.Kg so that is 3888 J.
9 ml titanium is 40.86 gr has reached an average temperature of 970 K, a rise of 677 K, so 14384 J.
To change to liquid an additional 20.9 KJ/mol is required. 1 mol is 47.867 gr so we have 0.0948 mol requiring 1982 J.
So we need a total of 3888+14384+1982 J = 20255 J.
1 Watt is 1 J/s so if you would apply 20 KW, it would take little over 1 sec. Supposing no energy is lost elsewhere.

You can do the same calculations for other metals and or quantities.

Now, I only wonder how this relates to Wardenclyffe.

Ernst

[Ernst]

Energy is the same but not the instantaneous power (or activity like Tesla described it). Now to convert instantaneous power to increased energy we have to control the work done in long time and let it attract more energy from external source. It's like winding up a spring which released move a hammer which in the end struck the bell. The small energy in one period of time used to wind up the spring is released in short period of time to struck the bell, but the bell vibrate very long time producing high amplitude sound (then sound amplitude fade)...

To emit a short pulse of say 1 s of 10 M HP, the tower would have to 'charge' for about 20 minutes, meaning that it can not supply any power or information (telephone/telegraph/what have you) during 99.9% of the time. I am sorry but I just can not believe that that is what Tesla had in mind here.

Ernst.

[boguslaw]

Ernst
When you use hammer , do you assume that it hit a nail for as long as 1 second ????

[TeslaSecrets]

"So be it?" to what end?

The end is to discover new sources of energy to free humanity from our addiction to fossil fuels and other hazardous sources of power we are dependent on today.

if you can't even make what is known and well described by the inventor himself and get that to work i.e. telephony, and you can't even receive a radio signal of a known frequency from a transmitter of tens of thousands of watts?

I fully agree you do need background in electrical engineering and a fundamental grasp of electricity in order to make and understand what Tesla was doing. I assure you, I have such a background and yet I am not afraid to consider new ideas either. I once built a 20 KV Tesla coil, the discharge of which I intentionally, without fear or hesitation, stuck my bare finger into. It seems to me, it takes a tremendous amount of faith in ones understanding of Tesla's work, to risk ones life, ignore all teachings of the hazards of electricity, and stick ones finger into a noisy, obviously high voltage arc spraying into the air. Yet here I am. That is faith and trust in ones comprehension of the theory, which few people have.

One thing for certain, is modern electrical science is incomplete, and if you think otherwise you are simple not as well read as you believe. We can use our theory to design amazing complex electrical systems, and yet on the other hand no one can really say "What is Electricity?" Thus physicist and scientist continue to explore new theories and ideas, to change and evolve. What we held as absolute one day, becomes complete falsehood the next.

Tesla was forced to develop his own theory of gravity, because he must have found shortcomings in the current theory of the day, of which he was fully versed and aware. Tesla needed a much broader and all inclusive concept than what he had available, to explain the results of his experiments. The purpose of such a theory is to better understand our Universe and the forces at work there in. If such a theory can lead us to freedom of dependence on fossil fuels, by better understanding the natural sources of energy already at work within, upon and around our Earth, then so be it. We should be open to such possibilities, and not stand firm upon theory which we know is incomplete.

Colorado Springs was powered from the local generators, no one here argues against this. However, in experimenting with this power, it is very likely as Tesla himself states many times, he discovered new and remarkable properties of our Universe, which if applied, would greatly improve the condition of humanity. Interpreting Tesla's work within the bounds of modern electrical theory, only takes from Tesla what is deemed acceptable and true under modern electrical theory. Whenever anyone, Tesla himself included as well, speaks or spoke of things outside this box of acceptable concepts, then the standard and trained response is to ridicule and ignore.

Tesla's Peirce Arrow Electric Car is just such an example, which must be ignored in order to sustain any argument against Tesla's discovery of an alternative energy source.

[GSM]

To emit a short pulse of say 1 s of 10 M HP, the tower would have to 'charge' for about 20 minutes, meaning that it can not supply any power or information (telephone/telegraph/what have you) during 99.9% of the time. I am sorry but I just can not believe that that is what Tesla had in mind here.

Ernst.

Had Tesla thought of synchronous reception with replacement of a missing carrier as per an energy efficient SSB transmission, whereupon only timed ERP peaks might be continuously radiated and received by a resonantly tuned circuit capable of generating transducible energy ?

[gyula]

i can not get radio or mobile phone recetion here and i can still make alot of energy, the energy does not come from radio stations and will never turn up on their bill energy is in our earth and atmosphere and can be made usable, quoting patients will get us nowhere, either will closed minds

Hi Gav,

I wonder how you can make a lot of energy. You happen to have a waterfall near to your house or furnished in solar cells, maybe wind generators? Or you tapped into geothermic energy perhaps.

Thanks, Gyula

[Ernst]

@ boguslaw,
the 1 second was only an example to bring it into a time domain that we can perceive.
The fact is of course that the system is idle for 99.9% of the time.

@ TeslaSecrets,


@ GSM,
I wish I could answer that question. I wish I knew what exactly he had in mind with this project and how he intended to accomplish this. I have some ideas, that I believe are well founded, but until now no proof. The best approach seems to be to just build what he intended to build as good as we can, and see what happens. Yet, this approach too has a good chance to fail as long as we do not understand Tesla's original intention.
My hope, there for is not on immediate success, but on a step-by-step better understanding of the processes involved. And here is the added value of this forum, because we all have been trying things among these lines and we all have our experiences in this field. By sharing our thoughts and combining our efford the chances of success increase dramatically.
This of course requires constructive cooperation and open mindedness.

Ernst.

[dR-Green]

"So be it?" to what end?

The end is to discover new sources of energy to free humanity from our addiction to fossil fuels and other hazardous sources of power we are dependent on today.

Is that really what it's about?

How come no one is building or using wind or water turbines, or solar panels, geothermals etc? These are the things Tesla was talking about. He speaks clearly of harnessing the energy of the sun. Why isn't anyone doing it?

That's not against you personally because you're not the only one, but you're the one who brought it up, and the logic makes absolutely no sense. In the meantime you are dependent on fossil fuels, you are ignoring the known sources of free energy, because you are trying to look for free energy?! What's the point of "new" sources of energy if you are not bothering to use what's already there?

If I was a conspiracy weaver then I would say that the oil companies are the ones promoting "Tesla's free energy". It keeps the money rolling in that's for sure.

By all means search for new sources of energy if that's your thing, someone will have to at some point, especially if they continue to ignore the truth, but the nonsense thing about it is refusing to acknowledge existing sources of energy, and continuing to be dependant on fossil fuels anyway. So nothing is being accomplished in the meantime. The whole endeavour is self-defeating.