Wardenclyffe - Tesla's true intention

[dR-Green]

Hobby Eon:

Stop talking wet and state your case. You are the one talking like a lawyer, using a thousand words to say nothing at all.

What's this about 1700 years to make a generator? Is that when time began? And still no one knows your coil specs.

The TMT (Colorado Springs) and Wardenclyffe are two different designs.

shall we talk about the Tesla o.u. principle first please ? That needs not more then two lines.

It depends how much tosh bloating factor the author chooses to apply in getting the basic point across.

Generator + river = OU.

[Ernst]

@Hobby Eon,

...moments later you come with this strange reaction :
What static field are you talking about? and how and where did you apply it?

Correct. Now, where is your answer?

I also asked for schematics and coil specs. Do you intend to keep those secret?

Then we can talk about execution. And from there the practical components.

I'd rather first know the components and then start talking.

All my collegues understood me perfectly and needed less then half a word from me to help them to get results.

Yes, but they all have your RF-training and skills, I do not.

If people are not the trained, skilled, very experienced and specialed in r.f. electronics like me , you can't expect from me to train them and wait for their degrees if they ever get there.

Agreed. Let's not do that.

You talk about a 500 kV supply. Do you realize that that is a spark of half a meter long ?

Yes, I fully realize that.

Hoho, how difficult is that to understand ?? Now the same thing can be done to make a T.M.T. working.

Indeed, give us all details and we'll have something to talk about

But any serious technician in this field, understands that your message nr 2 from this thread is an epic one !

Thank you, I am flattered.

Must i play this game ?

I asked myself that same question. The answer is: I am not going to respond to your posts until you stop evading my questions and come up with some details, in particular the schematics and coil specs. Without those it is not possible for me (untrained and all that) to provide you with any usefull reply. Don't get me wrong, I can play this game a long long time and neither get bored nor annoyed. I just feel that this forum is not the place for such.

Ernst.

[Ernst]

Oh, I almost forgot in all the excitement...

@RAMSET,
I am aware of that, but maybe there are readers on this forum who are not, so it is a good point to make. As stated everywhere in this thread, the earth was supposed to be the distrubution line for the Wardenclyffe tower. It is therefor an absolute necessity to have an extremely good ground connection. Tesla himself stated that the unseen underground system of Wardenclyffe was almost as expensive as the above ground part. Leland Anderson has made some sketches of this grounding system, for those who are interested:
Look here.
The humidity of the soil is an obvious advantage.

Ernst.

[TeslaSecrets]

Here is a quote from the introduction of "The problem of Increasing Human Energy", Volume I of The Tesla Technology Series.
The quote is from an editorial in Electrical Experimenter magazine, February 1919, by Hugo Gernsback.

I think this quote covers exactly the issue with modern radio theory and those who blindly support it. I think most of these people are good at memorization and recollection of other peoples work, but utterly fail when it comes to the imagination and creativity required to produce or understand truly unique work. It is easy, safe and comfortable to stand behind what we have been taught, it takes far more courage and effort to tread into the unknown.


Quote
" It will come as a profound shock to all wireless enthusiasts, scientific and amateur alike, that their present-day notions on wireless are totally erroneous and not based upon actual facts. For years we clung to the theory that a wireless message radiates from the aerial wires of the sending station an speeds over the surface of the earth thru the ether towards the receiving station. We thought that we were sending out Hertzian waves from our transmitters. We thought that we received these waves over the aerial wires of our receiving station. All of these theories are wrong and will be relegated shortly into the past along with the early notion that the earth stood still, while sun, moon and stars revolved around it.

Remain only the physical facts that we did send and did receive messages without wires-but they are not sent by means of pure Hertz waves, nor do they go by way of the ether as radiations.

In a highly illuminating article printed elsewhere in this issue, Nikola Tesla explodes all of our present orthodox views as to wireless propagation and makes it clear that the earth is the sole medium thru which our wireeless impulses travel, in the form of true conduction. Particularly does this hold true for long distance messages: Here we are sending out a compound impulse three quarters of which is galvanic currents, traveling thru the conducting earth, the other quarter or less is in the form of Hertz waves, going by way of the ether. This explains why we can send signals to airplanes and vice versa; but even here we probably have to do not with pure Hertz waves; it is almost certain that we have capacity-inductive effects as well.

Tesla maintaining that there can be no long distance effects by radiations transmitted thru the ether, but rather only by currents through the earth, it follows that in his opinion all our radio apparatus is designed and operated faultily. Indeed, this is not a brand new idea of the famous inventor. He has been preaching it ever since he took out his first patents and described his system in 1893-long before Marconi thought of wireless. But he was preaching to a stone deaf scientific world.

But how simple it all becomes when we stop to apply a little reason and logic to Tesla's claims. For instance, we can send radio impulses three to five times as far over salt water as over land. Why? Simply because the impulses go thru the water, which is a much better conductor than the earth alone. If we were sending pure Hertzian waves, why do we connect one wire at both sending and receiving stations to the ground? Hertz never dreamt of a such a thing. If you are still unconvinced that the earth is the cheif medium of transmission, disconnect your ground wires entirely and try to send and receive. Now you may work with Hertz waves, but the distances you can bridge will be pitifully small.

Already Tesla's login is filtering into our radio scientists' minds. All the big stations are beginning to scrap their towers and aerial wires, at least for receiving. They now bury their "aerial" wires in the ground, and lo! they can receive signals twice as far as before. Incredible, but this is being done every day. And--wonders upon wonders--how we will laugh at our present and past blindness-- the static interference is practically gone the minute we pull our aerial wires down and bury them! Static Electricity? There never was a reason for having the bugaboo, for there is no "static" in the ground.

But Tesla goes much farther. In time he will show the world wireless power transmission effected not by ether waves but by currents thru the earth, which is a first rate conductor. Like all big things, the problem is simple. At some point on the globe he will erect a station powerful enough to charge the whole earth with electricity-and keep it charged. To do this we need about 10,000 kilowatts. Then t any point on the globe the current can be tapt by means of suitable apparatus. Like a bell ringing transformer, connected to your supply line, no current is consumed unless you close the secondary circuit. Tesla's world wireless works just that way. No current is consumed till it is tapt at the distant receiving station."
- Hugo Gernsback

[TeslaSecrets]

@Hobby Eon

You do realize the man who invented the very field you claim to be a master in, said your entire field was wrong about how wireless worked? So to be a master of radio, is to know nothing about Tesla's work.

If it was not for Tesla, you would have no career, no expertise. Your expertise of which you are so proud of, began with this man.

I think you should read more carefully the writings of Nikola Tesla, the man who invented your field of expertise. He tells you himself your error.

Still to this day, people use Tesla's work, claiming it as their own grandiose, self serving idea. Radio today is like a Frankenstein abomination, which killed its own creator. A Frankenstein with a big head, big mouth, and no ears.

[Ernst]

Hi Farmhand,
It was I who claimed that the Wardenclyffe tower was intended to create OU.
It is hard to find a statement of Tesla himself stating that, but I think I have one for you.
First I would like to mention a few other things:
- It is rumoured that the fire that burned down Tesla's lab on Houstonstr. was started by Morgans men. (there are also rumours that Edison may have been behind that, but I think Morgan would be more likely)
- immedeately after the fire Tesla was offered help by Morgan.
But you know Morgan is a banker pur sang.
A bank is an institution that gives you an umbrella when the sun shines but asks two umbrellas back when it starts to rain. The term 'no strings attached' is simply ridiculous in a banking vocabulair. When Morgan offers you 'help' you should expect the stickiest spiderweb made of anaconda's and pythons. Tesla saw this and refused Morgans help at this point. But when it came to building Wardenclyffe I think Tesla was so focussed on seeing his dream come alive that he accepted Morgans 'help' here.
We all know how it ended. Tesla's dream came to an abrupt end because of sheer selfishness. Morgan, being among the richest people on the planet, was afraid to loose some money and above all, power.
Tesla knew this and tried to keep his real intention with this project away from the investors for if they knew they would surely obstruct his project in all thinkable ways.
Now I believe, Tesla reveiled his 'true intention' in the article that I copied in the first 2 posts of this thread.

Ok, now Tesla's most direct quote that OU is produced by this system comes from the 'rare notes'. Start at the last page:

Energy in strip considering superficial propagation will be similariy ..... 875 Watt.

and

Assuming magnifying factor in receiving circuit = 100 we may get with a tuned circuit ...... 8,600,000 Watts. Perfectly wonderful!

Wonderfull indeed! obtaining 10,000x the energy that is contained in this strip.
Now turn a few pages back and read:

This means variation of 2p = 32 volts all over globe.

Go through these calculations, there is something odd going on here.
What were the specs of the generator driving the tower? (I have little time now, but from the top of my head it was much less that 8.6 MW that could have been obtained anywhere on the globe.)

Just a side note: from this:

λ/2 = 93/200 miles

it can be established that the operating frequency must be 200 KHz.

Ernst.

[Farmhand]

Hi Ernst, A magnification of power is not necessarily an increase in energy out
vs. energy in.

Is there a link to the rare notes ? So i can read it in context. I always keep an
open mind. I've checked back through the thread but can't seem to find one.

Tesla talks of an increase of current and voltage which is power, but much of
it is reactive or oscillatory I think. OU is say, less total energy input for a "run"
compared to total energy out for the "that run".

When the system is running idle there would be a lot of power oscillating with
only a small input but no energy taken out.

Anyway I would need to read it in context to make up my mind.

Cheers

OK I found something.

Research of Nikola Tesla in Long Island Laboratory

The idea behind this relationship is based on the following statement from the insert of February 2, 1901 notes (citation):

"In many experiments with electrical oscillators of very high frequency curious spark discharges were observed which for long time could not be accounted for. Finally I found that they were due to exceptional rise by resonant action of the electromotive force. Further investigation led me to the discovery of fact that long conductor, say a straight telegraphy line, cable etc., has a definite frequency at which the capacity just counteracts the inductance and when worked with currents of that frequency the conductor is capable of transmitting energy condition exceptionally favorable. . . ."

Developing Long Island plant Tesla considered mainly the transmitting tower, oscillators for production of HF currents, choice of operating frequency, design of various coils, arrangements of terminals, etc. His propagation theory was based on the charge redistribution along the globe. As he did not consider only the static case, for higher frequencies (in this case frequencies above few Hz) he assumed that the zones of a half wavelength extent contain alternatively positive and negative electric charge. He considered transmitter frequencies as low as 4 Hz, but he devoted more attention to 60 Hz. On June 8, 1901, he wrote:

Assume frequency of dynamo on plant under process of construction, 60 cls, and capacity C of terminal insulated 10000 cm. With full steam-pressure on one of the boilers I can easily get 150 HP This will be only half of actual output. To use the power to the full extent we must charge the terminal to a pressure P given by equation:

C·p2 = 150 746, from which . . . P = 409700 V . . ."

Continuing further his consideration along these lines, Tesla came around with figures that with 100,000 cm capacity terminal on the polar cap (a point on the opposite side of the globe to the transmitter location), one could get about 2 HP, which, in his opinion ". . . is enough to demonstrate practicability of power transmission."

An interesting summary appeared on October 13, 1901 (citation):

"The following are important facts to bear in mind in connection with my system of energy transmission through the globe:

a) The strength of current passed into the ground by transmitting circuit determines the e.m.f. obtainable at any point of Earth in a receiving circuit connected either on one or two points or more. The e.m.f. is proportional to: a) current strength, b) frequency, conversely proportionate to distance from transmitting ground connection.

b) The energy at any point is proportional to actual energy delivered by transmitter and inversely to square distance from same up to equatorial zone.

c) Beyond equatorial zone the energy is increasing as the square of distance from opposite pole."

Even though the power at the receiver is only 2 Hp as long as the oscillations
caused by the transmitter are efficient then the setup could efficient over
time. But the energy out could never be more than the energy in I don't think
where would the extra energy come from ?

The ideas which were developed, and the results of research which Tesla carried after his return from Colorado Springs in January 1900 were not fully disclosed in Tesla's papers which he published after 1900. Something was disclosed in [1] in 1904. Here Tesla explained his intelligence transmission "World Telegraphy" plant at Long Island. However, very little is said about technical details, most of statements .are prediction-like types. From technical point of view, more interesting things had been disclosed in 1912 paper [2]. Another description of Tesla's system is found in a handbook [3]. Tesla's claim that "his" system is different from "Hertz's" is based on the fact that at low frequencies, and with small antenna I in terms of wavelength, radiation of Hertzian type electromagnetic wave is small. "Tesla's waves," if we are allowed to use such a name, are in fact surface waves in modern terminology (as known, this type of waves are significant in the range of long waves) or the Earth cavity waves, known better as ELF (extremely low frequency) waves. In "pure Hertzian" wave (in Tesla's terminology) there is no induced current in the Earth, except on reflection region which is not essential for the discussion. In contrast to the latter, guided surface or ELF waves do not exist without current in the Earth crust. Having this in mind, we can conclude that there is a truth in Tesla's statements about specific behavior of low frequency, guided to the Earth waves. As regards correctness of his approach to the propagation theory based on outlined assumptions, more study is needed and we hope that it will be done in the future.

I think I agree with this last passage. I think the mode of propagation was ELF
waves (not hertz waves).

..

[Ernst]

@Farmhand:

First page in this thread:
The "Rare Notes"

Also read the first to posts in this thread, that is where I explain my thoughts on OU in relation to the Wardenclyffe tower.
For your convenience: Post 1 and Post 2
(we aim to please )


Ernst.

[Ernst]

A seperate post on "Where does the extra energy come from?"

That is a very interesting question from a scientific perspective, from a practical perspective I would say "what do I care?".

Ok, back to the scientific perspective. There are a number of highly unusual phenomena observed in experiments with Longitudinal Electricity. It seems that space (distance) does no longer play a role. That would imply that every electrical system in the universe is connected to every other electrical system in the universe. This again means that one system can gain energy at the cost of some other system, but you will never know which system you get your energy from.

read Turtur's article here. He shows he can derive mechanical energy from an (static) electric field.
It should be even easier to get electrical energy, I would think.

My first Tesla coil was a system with a primary, secondary and extra coil. I thought if I can get a high enough Q in the extra coil, I could run it on 220 V (primary).
I designed and build that system with a driver that consisted of a relay connected as a buzzer, which would charge a small capacitor (from rectified 220V) and discharge it into the primary. A very simple set up which of course used only a minute amount of energy.
If I remember it correctly, it was 4 micro Watts or there about.
The system was very difficult to tune because of this small power and the high Q, but when tuned it could light a nearby fluorescent tube. Is 4 micro Watt enough to do that?

Ernst.

[Farmhand]

I would have to say 4 micro watts must be enough to light it that way.

Anyway I will read all the info provided, and the posts, I asked so now I must.

Thank you for providing those links, much appreciated.

[boguslaw]

There is something very wrong with our comprehension of energy. We automatically assume that a device producing more work then the other is impossible because it will produce more energy out then was put in.
It's because we were taught that work done is always a consumption of input energy.

Here is what it really looks like : if you take pendulum and input energy into it we can assume the work done by time of oscillations multiply by the deflection or pendulum (on each period times the period time for example). We don't assume the work done as total time and total road passed by pendulum because it is not usable : half of road is in one direction while the second half is in the opposite direction. I we could count the whole path of movement of pendulum times the time required to stop of movement we will get very high COP.

[Farmhand]

There is something very wrong with our comprehension of energy. We automatically assume that a device producing more work then the other is impossible because it will produce more energy out then was put in.
It's because we were taught that work done is always a consumption of input energy.

Here is what it really looks like : if you take pendulum and input energy into it we can assume the work done by time of oscillations multiply by the deflection or pendulum (on each period times the period time for example). We don't assume the work done as total time and total road passed by pendulum because it is not usable : half of road is in one direction while the second half is in the opposite direction. I we could count the whole path of movement of pendulum times the time required to stop of movement we will get very high COP.

Sorry Boguslaw but all the work the pendulum is doing is staying in the system
there is no output. As soon as you tap the pendulum for energy it will stop
and the result will be equal in to out. As the pendulum swings it stores the
kinetic (movement) as (potential) height. Some is lost. The energy is getting
less and less each swing, even when there is no output. Under C.O.P.1 .

Try it, set up a pendulum and tap it for energy.

Cheers

[Farmhand]

Tesla describes 3 of the 5 components that are required to generate energy from the ether. These 3 components are the key components:
1 – an oscillator that produces a constant frequency. It is well known how he used a spark gap and capacitor in combination with the primary coil to establish this.
2 – a high frequency transformer; a tuned primary and secondary coil.
3 – an extra coil, as he called it, in which through resonance any desired voltage can be achieved. Because the wire length in this coil is one quarter of the electrical wave length, one side of the coil shows a high current at 0 volts, the other end a high voltage at 0 current. This means that an excellent ground connection is essential.

Now, why would Tesla not describe components 4 and 5? The 'dynamo of special design'.
The answer is that he has already done so. Component 4 = component 3 and component 5 = component 2 but tuned at a different frequency.
So the generating part has been fully described. However, if you try to reconstruct it, you will find that there is still one more problem to be solved: how do you connect the first 3 components to the last 2? If you read on in this article you will find that he starts talking about passing electricity through the air. In the pre-hearing interview of 1916 he describes this experiment but he uses 'sectional pipes' to represent a continuous medium. This does not make sense. In combination with this article it does make sense.
Find the video on youtube where Eric Dollard demonstrates longitudinal electricity for Borderland Science at roughly 30 minutes you will see a set up that looks surprisingly much like Tesla's. Also not that Eric says he uses + because that seems to work best.
There is appearantly a difference and so a connection of this type will have a rectifying effect. This turns the 'dynamo of special design' into a giant crystal receiver oscillating at a different frequency that the system that sets it into vibration. This means that you can get power from this receiving system without consequence for the first system.
In other words: For Free.
The article continues explaining how you can distribute electrical energy without wires all over the globe. But that part has been described pretty clearly by the master himself.
Additional proof that this is the true system that Tesla designed for Wardenclyffe can be found in some documents that Leland Anderson copied from the Tesla Museum in Beograd. These circle the web under the name of 'rare notes'.

I hope this will trigger new research and new studies of Tesla's writings. The only true master of electricity!

I've never seen that. Where does he say those five things are needed to
generate energy from the Aether ? I think those are the five things required
for the particle beam (directed energy weapon) aren't they ? Maybe I'm wrong
I've never read it.

The rare notes I read this way.

In this part I think he's saying that with that many coulombs he would get 7.2 million volts.



..
He explains below that the current and emf are in phase and the power is a product of them ect. I think he is explaining reactive power and real power.
He also says in the part below that the actual power is only that supplied by primary.

And this part he says how he will determine for the "largest swing rate". EDIT: (correction "for one swing" not largest swing rate here)


..

EDIT: ( Here he says largest swing rate )( I think largest swing rate means Peak Power)
And here I think he talks of 875 watts being the oscillating energy in the strip
of ground in power. And also determines the "power" oscillating in the receiver.
I don't think he's saying he'll get more energy out than he used. I think he is
talking about an instant in time, peak power or average power. Not kilowatt hours
or coulombs out but just the oscillating power.



That's how I read it. Which is in line with the other quotes I gave in my post a
few above. I can't confirm the validity of the source but I linked it.

I don't like it when I disagree with people but, I can only say how I see it.
Please don't anyone let my opinion alone sway you in any way.
I'm not saying anything is impossible I'm just saying how I read what He has said.

Cheers

EDIT: Please read edits.

..

[RAMSET]

Met some interesting fellows

I did not know that Tesla had a beach house down the road from Wardenclyffe.....

I took a drive out to the site yesterday [Wardenclyffe],it was a rather hurried unplanned run between shifts at work ,In my haste to get out to the site and back to work on time ...I made a few wrong turns [still can't run that Tom Tom Thing ].
Anyhoo this wonderful woman gives me directions to "Wardenclyffe"
I wasn't far away "just down the road a bit".as I get closer to the spot where she said it was,I run out of road ..HHHMMmmmm she must have been confused ?[not me.. her :.}

So I go knock on a door and ask directions ,some wonderful people
pointed out the "fact" that I was only a few doors away from "Tesla's" house.

Ohhhh I see...

There's more to that story but suffice it to say ,I met some more wonderful folks and I eventually got over to the site.

Well I suppose the real reason I am posting this here today is what happened when I got to the site . {* as a side note I am playing around with the water from different parts of the northeast checking for conductivity and other
atributes,so my real purpose in going out to the site was to get some samples.}

Well I start talking to a few fellows accross from the entrance [i grab a water sample] they spoke about Wardenclyffe now being an old superfund cleanup site ,I had helped supervise a simular clean up years back and we chatted
for a while about these cleanups.

Well I turn to leave and there's a couple fellows standing accross the street
by the gate...

Gotta go chat!!

It was An Aerospace Engineer and his assistant ,This "meeting" made me late for work.

There was no doubt these fellows had researched this from a much different perspective than we have here, It seemed the ground was clearly the venue for Transmission?
They mentioned Stubblefield and intimated that his part in this [ground transmission]was not to be dismissed.

I must also add, what we perceive as overunity as it applied to what Tesla had in mind for Wardenclyffe was also not in doubt, But the term "free energy" does not apply.

Made some new friends and had a really good day.

I think this "Tesla Thing" is going to surprise a lot of Folks......


Thx
Chet
\








Site

[Ernst]

I've never seen that. Where does he say those five things are needed to
generate energy from the Aether ? I think those are the five things required
for the particle beam (directed energy weapon) aren't they ? Maybe I'm wrong
I've never read it.

Please do read it. The questions you ask here are all answered in my first post.

Ernst.