Wardenclyffe - Tesla's true intention

[Farmhand]

I found this in Turtur's Parper.

The product of the observed voltage and current was in the order of magnitude of ⋅ ≈ ⋅ ⋅
4 -6 -2
U I 10 V 10 A 10 W , which is much
larger than the power converted from the vacuum

Doesn't that mean he used more power than he converted ?

And when a balloon was used the rotor stopped when the energy ran out.

http://www.gsjournal.net/old/physics/turtur.pdf

Anyway I think my main point is, Tesla points out in several places there is no
free energy, just a magnification of power (voltage and current). In my opinion it is clearly stated.

So I'll leave it at that. Again don't let my opinion sway anyone.
I still think it's interesting without any free energy involved, but, Oh well.

Cheers.

[Gav]

has anyone seen my thread tesla style earth battery? it was only a few months ago i found that Tesla even existed, since then ive read alot of info and done alot of tests, i believe the power comes from the ground, its allready there waiting, all it is is a big capacitor under the ground, water has a huge part of it, water is instantly charged and can hold alot of energy and capacitance, the antenna's roll may only be to give the system a possitive charge?
i made 44dcv and over 80acv without any input at all, no oscilators or pulsing, just using my roof and 3 ground wires for someone like me i think thats amazing, i would never had thought it would be so easy or even to make that much from nothing
i think it says alot that teslas system went 420ft udnerground

[Hobby Eon]

(computer f.u.) see next

[Hobby Eon]

Right .
"These forums are filled with 10.000 's messages of NOTHING, shall we talk about the Tesla o.u. principle first please ?"

I'm all ears...

Hello mr. boguslaw. You are one of only a handfull of members who i respect.
Could i reach you by a personal message ? There are working models based on this Tesla design. And there
are parallel examples in other technical fields. If i point this out to you, you will say to yourself why didn't
the quarter drop sooner ? But no offence, i was mislead to by weasel americans who are in the know.
What for country is that anyway ?

[sorveltaja]

That power transmission through the soil-idea seems to have some similarity
with my recent post in this thread, where I wildly combined images of two Tesla's patents(Tower 1119732, and the railroad one 514972).

Just my two half-baked cents. I'm not after any credits.

[Ernst]

@Farmhand,
I suddenly realised that I did not supply sufficient info on your coils. Besides forgetting the mutual inductance, as you already pointed out, I also forgot the coils capacitance.
These are as follows:
Prim: 45 pF, Sec: 23.4 pF, Extra 5.52 pF.
These values are to be incorporated in establishing the LC resonance frequency, which should be made to match the 1/4 wave length F-res. for an optimum performance.
If you have a multimeter that can measure capacitance, then that would be the best way to measure the combined sec.+extra capacitance. Calculations tend to get a bit complicated because of the way charge will distribute on these coils. In wide and short coils, the width is most important because the charge will accumulate on the sides of the coil, whereas in long thin coils the charge tends to accumulate at the top and bottom of the coil making the length the most important factor. A so-called square coil (height=width) the cap is minimum.
But, you could get an even lower capacitance if you could make a globe shaped coil.

Back to OU, then.
What did Tesla say about that?
1 - Tesla said that the 1st and 2nd Law of Thermodynamics will always hold. Hence you can not create or destroy energy, but you can convert energy into various forms.
Does that mean that you can not build a machine that generates free energy?
NO
Again look at the article in the first post of this thread. Take for instance Tesla's example of the huge thermopile.
The absolutely most clear statement by Tesla in my opinion is this:

Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by a power obtainable at any point of the universe. This idea is not novel. Men have been led to it long ago by instinct or reason; it has been expressed in many ways, and in many places, in the history of old and new. We find it in the delightful myth of Antheus, who derives power from the earth; we find it among the subtle speculations of one of your splendid mathematicians and in many hints and statements of thinkers of the present time. Throughout space there is energy. Is this energy static or kinetic! If static our hopes are in vain; if kinetic — and this we know it is, for certain — then it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheelwork of nature.

"Experiments With Alternate Currents Of High Potential And High Frequency" (February 1892)

Free energy is absolutely possible, that is what it says here.

@ Gav,
I have been experimenting with that too, in the past. Sometimes getting a considerable voltage difference. Unfortunately always a very small current, and thus little power. I never got more than about 10 mW.

@ sorveltaja,
Your idea about combining patent images remains fascinating!

Ernst.

(have to get to work)

[Farmhand]

Hi Ernst, I do apologize for posting again and this will be my last one, I feel I must explain myself though.

I agree free energy is possible. I know it is, there are many ways to do it, solar panels are proof of free energy. Hard proof.

What I don't see is a Quote from Tesla where he states that his transmitters
can harness free energy, or that they are intended to harness free energy.

And with all the reading I've done I don't see any statement from Tesla that his
wireless transmitter at Long Island used "longitudinal" waves as the mode of
transmission or the way the energy was transmitted.

As far as I can see no one can provide such quotes.

Going by all the stuff I've read the energy was transmitted by ELF or VLF electromagnetic waves,
it's just that they are not "radio" waves, or "Hertz" Waves.

I'm not saying longitudinal waves do not exist.
I'm not saying free energy is not possible.
I'm not saying Tesla's system did not work.

I'm saying I don't see where Tesla claimed "longitudinal" waves or "free"
energy in relation to the transmitters functioning or operations.

I don't think it's too much to ask. I'm just asking for quotes and references
so I might understand where people are getting the idea he made these claims. I'm asking at a few site's.

The passage you quoted is not a claim that his transmitters harnessed free energy.

If he did in fact make the claims then so be it. I have never actually said he
didn't, I just haven't seen any and no one seems to be able to provide them.

Cheers

[boguslaw]

Hello mr. boguslaw. You are one of only a handfull of members who i respect.
Could i reach you by a personal message ? There are working models based on this Tesla design. And there
are parallel examples in other technical fields. If i point this out to you, you will say to yourself why didn't
the quarter drop sooner ? But no offence, i was mislead to by weasel americans who are in the know.
What for country is that anyway ?

Feel fre to send me personal message. Thank You for kind words...

[Ernst]

@ Farmhand,
No need to apologise. I understand that you are looking for hard and clear quotes. And I have been trying to explain why you would never find those.
OK, say you are Tesla and I am Morgan, you have found a way to tap into free energy and you would like to make this available to the world for you believe that would be a marvelous gift. You have been working on this idea for more than 10 years, you have spend 2 years in CS trying to find the best way to implement it. You can see it in front of you, you can almost touch it. You know it will work. But you need money to build it, and quite a bit of that.

You know that I have just invested in the Niagara power plant and its distribution network and that investment is just beginning to throw of some fruits. You know that I have the money, it is pocket money to me. But you also know that I am not going to invest in something that would destroy my previous investment and more than that, it would make people less dependent on large industries (power companies). You know how rich people like to be in control.

So given this situation, would you go yelling through the streets in an Archimedes type fashion, shouting "Eureka, I have free energy for everybody". Do that, and you will certainly never get the money, and you will find the "elite" will start planning your next "accident". Probably even a fatal one.

If you would like to see your dream come alive, you would have to find a way to "Trojan" it in. So there is this Marconi character saying he will soon be able to transmit a message across the Atlantic. Well, since your plan will reach out to the entire world, you could also use it to send a message. So the Wardenclyffe project can be 'sold' to investors as a world wide messaging system. Later you can show them it can also be used to transmit energy to everyone and still later you will show them it can even supply its own energy.
Giving energy away, is not a very attractive thing unless you also get it for free.

So to summarise:
- I believe Tesla has found a way to get free energy
- I believe the Wardenclyffe project was intended to implement this
- I believe the article "problem of increasing..." describes this idea
- I believe the CS years were to find the exact parameters for Wardenclyffe
- I believe Tesla would never talk about this in plain language because that would not only endanger this plan, but probably also his life.
- I believe you can recontruct the Wardenclyffe plan with the help of the "rare notes", the above mentioned article and the CSN.

That is a lot of believing going on here, but the pieces just fit too perfectly to be a coincident. And I intend to reconstruct this plan, and I feel I will succeed.



Ernst.

[TeslaSecrets]

@Farmhand

There are some interesting concepts Tesla proposes in his article "The Problem of Increasing Human Energy" which I think are relevant to his concept of "free energy".

As I see it, "Free Energy" is a bit of a misnomer, in that no energy is free. This is what the first and second laws of thermodynamics tells us. We can never have "Free Energy" we must always have a source. Now if Tesla was claiming access energy out than in, or OU as your calling it here, then the question is what was Tesla's source of energy. If we understand the source then we can understand the method.

Ernst mentions a Huge Thermopile, and Tesla uses this as an example of his methods and source of energy.

quote
"Imagine a thermopile consisting of a number of bars of metal extending from the earth to the outer space beyond the atmosphere. The heat from below, conducted upward along these metal bars, would cool the earth or the sea or the air, according to the location of the lower parts of the bars, and the result, as is well known, would be an electric current circulating in these bars. The two terminals of the thermopile could now be joined through an electric motor and, theoretically, this motor would run on and on, until the medium below would be cooled down to the temperature of outer space. "
-Nikola Tesla

So if he gained energy it was somehow related to a difference in heat over long distance. Everyone will realize the impracticality of such a huge thermopile, but the theory is sound. Tesla then elaborates;

quote
"But was it not possible to realize a similar condition without necessarily going to a height?: - Nikola Tesla

In that the concept of thermal energy extraction over a large volume, may be accomplished with a much smaller device. It seems Wardenclyffe seems to be related to this concept of connecting the temperature difference between earth and outer space and using it for energy.

There are other similar discussion in his article, such as bringing a region of cold down to the surface of the earth, inside a container, and extracting energy similarly this way.

This may be conjecture, but I imagine the Wardenclyffe tower as being able to align a vast volume of space, either electrically or magnetically, so as to channel or focus more of the natural thermodynamic energy transfer between the earth and space. Similar even to "magnetic cooling" but on a far grander scale. Perhaps he realized a method to convert thermodynamic energy into electricity, which was far more efficient and complex than a simple thermopile.

We do know there is both a vast temperature difference between the earth and space, as well as a vast electrical potential difference between the earth and space. Seems there may be a connection here, which allows large electrical devices connected to earth and space, to receive extra energy from the thermodynamic earth space potential.

A normal "aerial" or even a single earth to space wire, may not have enough " effective volume " to accomplish this efficiently.

[Ernst]

adding to TeslaSecrets' post here....

We know that there is a temperature difference between earth and space. But there is a little difficulty here. Temperature is a measure for moleculair momentum (mass x velocity).
The reason for the low temperature in space is not the low velocity, in fact the moleculair velocity outside our atmosphere is a lot higher than here. The reason for the low temperature is that there is so little mass. So if we would implement the thermopile plan to cool down the earth, where to do we transfer the earths heat? There is no mass to accept our 'heat'.

So this theory looks more sound than it actually is. Probably because Tesla was not a thermodynamic-engineer, he was an electrical engineer who is using analogies.
With this in mind we look at this plan, and we can immediately see that there is another source of energy, an electrical one. There is a huge electrical potential difference between the earth and the ionosphere. Replace the thermopile with a simple conductor and we will have electrical energy until the potential difference is no more.

This plan will actually work, as opposed to the thermopile plan. But it would certainly not be among the most wise plans, as the electrical energy will probably discharge in a very short time with enough violence to level a major city.

So my idea is that the thermo-energy is being used as an analogy for electro static energy.

Ernst.

[dR-Green]

So if we would implement the thermopile plan to cool down the earth, where to do we transfer the earths heat? There is no mass to accept our 'heat'.

You don't use the principle to cool down the earth as the main objective. You convert it for use, it's no longer heat. Then the same principle applies to the device itself, and so on down the line until nothing is wasted, maximising efficiency of the whole thing. It's not about finding an inexhaustible source so we can use 1% efficient technologies and waste 99% just because there's enough to go around. That's an engineering and scientific atrocity.

[dR-Green]

... I simply went there because in Colorado my system of power transmission was introduced. All around the plants in the mountains, my three-phase system, and the induction motors were employed. All the mines surrounding Cripple Creek and Telluride were operated by them, and I had friends there who were only too delighted to give me all the power I wanted, and not charge anything for it.

Nikola Tesla On His Work With Alternating Currents And Their Application To Wireless Telegraphy, Telephony, And Transmission Of Power, page 109

The whole basis of the idea of free energy to the world seems rather obvious and simple.

In recent experiments I have discovered two novel facts of importance in this connection. One of these facts is that an electric current is generated in a wire extending from the ground to a great height by the axial, and probably also by the translatory, movement of the earth. No appreciable current, however, will flow continuously in the wire unless the electricity is allowed to leak out into the air. Its escape is greatly facilitated by providing at the elevated end of the wire a conducting terminal of great surface, with many sharp edges or points. We are thus enabled to get a continuous supply of electrical energy by merely supporting a wire at a height, but, unfortunately, the amount of electricity which can be so obtained is small.

The second fact which I have ascertained is that the upper air strata are permanently charged with electricity opposite to that of the earth. So, at least, I have interpreted my observations, from which it appears that the earth, with its adjacent insulating and outer conducting envelope, constitutes a highly charged electrical condenser containing, in all probability, a great amount of electrical energy which might be turned to the uses of man, if it were possible to reach with a wire to great altitudes.

It is possible, and even probable, that there will be, in time, other resources of energy opened up, of which we have no knowledge now.

"The Problem of Increasing Human Energy" by Nikola Tesla

[TeslaSecrets]

I tend to think the thermodynamic difference between the earth and space and the electrical potential difference between earth and space, are related somehow.

Perhaps one even balances the other.

[TeslaSecrets]

I would further add, on reflection of your comment Ernst, not all heat transfer occurs as thermal conduction between mass, we can have radiation as well, especially infrared. Radiation, I should not have to point out, that is electromagnetic in nature.

So it appears to me, that nature already has a very efficient process for converting heat into electromagnetic energy. Perhaps we can apply this same natural conversion process of heat to electromagnetic energy, on a larger scale?

Could this not be what Tesla was hinting at when he discusses converting heat into other forms of energy? Such as electric field.

I do not think we can say Tesla did not understand the thermodynamics, because his article shows tremendous insight into thermodynamics, the large thermopile being a good example.

I think Tesla knew his Wardenclyffe power station, would basically cool the Earth, in the same fashion as the giant thermopile could.

We need to think of Wardenclyffe's source of energy, in this fashion. The supply from the local grid, is only a starting or control power by which the conditions for a much greater, natural energy extraction are established, similar to the exciter on a normal generator.

Consider this as well. Tesla often refers to electricity as a fluid and we know fluids or gases are used as refrigerants. Is it such a leap to suggest electricity itself could be used as the working fluid in a refrigerator?

Oh wait..
Ames Lab 101: Magnetic Refrigeration - YouTube
Magnetic Cooling