Wardenclyffe - Tesla's true intention

[boguslaw]

I wish I could save that picture from Russian forum. Anyway, look at it carefully and compare to normal propagation of EM wave. How close it could be ! If plane of propagation of E field is fixed oscillating E field from normal EM wave can be seen as propagating longitudinal wave oscillating also perpendicularly - like a rope with tension longitudinal wave slightly disturbed in parallel plane and thus oscillating in tranverse wave mode also. Now the magnetic field oscillating and magnetic field curled looks almost identical from outside, peaks are in the same places - we can say that oscillating magnetic field from EM is like a simplified view of curled magnetic field.

[Ernst]

Thank you boguslaw for the doc & link.
That forum sure looks interesting but my Russian is a bit rusty
I have downloaded all the pictures, if you want them send me a PM with an address to send them to. I suppose you were referring to the pics that seem to be scanned from a book?
I'm not sure what to see, but it is getting late already. I will look again tomorrow.

As for the Bruhn document, that man is making a complete fool of himself (excuse me for saying so). Meyl shows that the Maxwell equations are incomplete and uses very valid arguments and math, then Bruhn 'proves' that Meyl is wrong based on the Maxwell equations (assuming those are correct).
Maxwell arrived at his equations assuming that EM-radiation is a transversal wave. He did a brilliant job and as far as EM-radiation is a transversal wave his equations are 100% correct.
The problem is that EM-radiation is NOT just a transversal wave. Maxwell describes the transversal part correctly but misses the longitudinal part because he just assumed it did not exist. For this reason only, the Maxwell equations do not show a longitudinal part. But you can not, based on these equations provide valid proof that longitudinal waves do not exist.

Compare to this:
I look up and see a perfect blue sky, no clouds. So I define the First Law of Ernst: Sky=Blue.
Then you look up and see clouds, you tell me that I am wrong. Then I provide this proof:
- Fact: When you look up, you see the sky.
- First Law of Ernst: Sky=Blue
-> So you can not see clouds.
QED.

Tomorrow I will look @ the pics again..

Ernst.

[Ernst]

I think you'll find this video interesting.

I had a look at the pics again. Do you think that skewing an EM-wave in some way may introduce a longitudinal component? If that were true it would be easy to test:
wind a coil say 30 cm diameter and run a wire diagonally through the middle. Measure if some potential is created over this wire when the coil is excited.

As this is easy to test, I have already done so. With about 100 KHz/35V, a copper plated iron (ground) pin and a coil. When I ground the pin (as in some Kapanadze schemes) it does not register anything. When not grounded it picks up a signal from the coil such that it registers about 1 Volt on an analog volt meter. (one wire of the volt meter connected, the other one 'floating')
It does not change whether the pin goes straight through the coil (along the coil axis) or diagonally. I get exactly the same results.

Is that what you were seeing, Boguslaw?
Your link to the forum did give me some new ideas for my garage-Wardenclyffe, though.
I'll get back on that later.
(bit busy right now)

Ernst.

[Hobby Eon]

driiiiiiiiiing. I have made a replica.

Hi Ernst (and the rest)
Many months reading and experimenting my result was none. Yes i have read Eric Dollard and his sketches
Even me who is quit skilled in r.f. i saw no results. Without or with static fields. It looks quit neat and
pruned to frequency. My model works at about 1 m.c. My secondary has a 5 nF capacitor in it. The extra coil runs
free. What can it be this time ? Murphy or a detail devil ? I hope to hear from you. A p.m. is good also.

[Farmhand]

Hi Hobby Eon, What result were you looking for ?
What is it you are trying to do ? I have the same questions as dR in the other
thread. What do you mean by "with or without static fields" ? And how come you
have a 5 nF capacitor in the secondary ?

Can you briefly explain what it is you were expecting to see and why ?

Cheers

[Ernst]

Same questions as above + can you give a full description of what you are trying to do?
Schematics, pictures and all details on coils, wires, caps, voltages... etc.?

Ernst.

[Hobby Eon]

Ooh Ernst.

Same questions as above message ? Not good. I hoped you were someone who knew what he talked about .
Example: how can you have a question what i mean with 'static field' since you came with this detail ?

Aditional on what i reported i can tell that i use a 10 cm. pvc coil. I was Murphy'd since i measured the f res with a scope. Even it is an 10 MegOhm scope, that was not the exact way to do it. Anyway an afternoon tweaking and i have it nice resonating with a 14 mm spark comming from a driver that draws about 12 watts. Not bad at all. How are your fets going ? For a f.b.t. driver is a fet totally useless for a lot of reasons. Much better is a hv deflection transistor.
In full operation and misuse my transistor stays even below handwarm.

[Hobby Eon]

Forget to ask. My driver operates at f res. Would it be better to make this a 1 : 10 drive ?
So that the load will not pull the driver defect ?

greetings.

[Ernst]

I have been working at an IT-helpdesk for a while. There you get questions like this:
"It doesn't work anymore, I enter all the fields just like yesterday, but now it doesn't work. Yesterday there was no problem. Has something changed?"
If you read carefully, this question does not contain any information on what this person tries to do, which program he/she is using, what results he/she expects and what results he/she gets. We learned ways to deal with this.

Now your question:

Many months reading and experimenting my result was none. Yes i have read Eric Dollard and his sketches Even me who is quit skilled in r.f. i saw no results. Without or with static fields. It looks quit neat and pruned to frequency. My model works at about 1 m.c. My secondary has a 5 nF capacitor in it. The extra coil runs free. What can it be this time ? Murphy or a detail devil ?

And your extra info 1:

Aditional on what i reported i can tell that i use a 10 cm. pvc coil. I was Murphy'd since i measured the f res with a scope. Even it is an 10 MegOhm scope, that was not the exact way to do it. Anyway an afternoon tweaking and i have it nice resonating with a 14 mm spark comming from a driver that draws about 12 watts. Not bad at all. How are your fets going ? For a f.b.t. driver is a fet totally useless for a lot of reasons. Much better is a hv deflection transistor. In full operation and misuse my transistor stays even below handwarm.

And your extra info 2:

Forget to ask. My driver operates at f res. Would it be better to make this a 1 : 10 drive ? So that the load will not pull the driver defect ?

What can I deduce from this?
- you have spend many months on this without (your expected) result.
This leaves us with "what is it that you are trying?", "what were your results?" and "what did you expect?"
- you have read E. Dollards work and are experienced in RF.
This leaves us with "how and what parts of Erics work have you applied?"
- you tried to apply a static field
What static field are you talking about? and how and where did you apply it? (and yes, I do know what a static field is)
- It looks quit neat and pruned to frequency.
That's good! But what is it, that looks so neat?
- your model works at 1 MHz with a 5 nF capacitor in the secondary.
How exactly is that 5 nF cap connected? Schematics????
- the extra coil runs free.
What exactly do you mean by that? Again give us the schematics of your design!
- you use a 10 cm PVC coil
For what? Primary, secondary or extra? How is this 10 cm measured? coil length, inner width, outer width, or induction?
- you get a 14 mm spark
Where? spark gap? top load? somewhere else?
- the driver draws 12W
I presume this is the circuitry driving your primary coil?
- your driver runs at F-res (1 MHz?)
F-res of what? I noticed the words "secondary", which implies that there is a primary, and "extra". Are there still more? which are you refering to?
- You are posting this in a thread on Wardenclyffe.
The Wardenclyffe system in its final design had 4 inductances, 2 coils and an extra coil made up the power supply, the 4th was a straight wire (or several wires) along the supports. It had at least 3 caps, one in the primary circuit, one as a top load connected to the extra coil and the whole outside of the top of the tower. Look at the 'rare notes' linked in the first page of this thread. Does your design look anything like that?
And please don't say I (we) do not know what we are talking about. The only problem at this time is that no one, but you, knows what you are doing. So before expecting any help, give us all the details on your project. That means full schematic and all parameters on all coils, caps and other parts.

For me, I have come to realise that modern electronics are better not used in reconstructing Tesla's work. So instead of transistors (and FET's) I am back with the good old spark gap (with aluminium electrodes). This works quite good and I have build myself a HV-HF power supply that gives 500KV at roughly 160 KHz and either at 300 Watt or 1500 Watt. This is a simple 2 coil system that I need for a few experiments before designing/building my Wardenclyffe replica, and it is now operational.

Ernst.

[Farmhand]

Hi Ernst I'm very interested in your experiments. I appreciate your willing to
interact and that you are patient. Please keep us posted.

Here is a clip showing some preliminary tests of the power to the terminal.
The first video the supply voltage was a bit low for the spark gaps I think.
The arcs are breaking out because I placed a leak point on the terminal.

Tesla Arcs 760 Gr - YouTube

Arcs 760 3 70w - YouTube

I'm using two MOT's to power it like this drawing below but the clip was done
without the filter. I've got some problems to overcome. And my frequency is 760 kHz.
But I expect to be able to power the setup with anything from about 50 Watts
to a few hundred when I'm finished. The DC resistance of the secondary and
extra coils is about 3 Ohms. About 48 meters in each. Like you I'm kinda
working alone to my own beat, which is how I like it.

Sorry about the rough drawing it's a working sketch.



I can provide the coil specs later when I make better measurements.

Cheers

P.S. The leak point was a 2.5 mm ball of solder on the end of a piece of wire.

..

[Michelinho]

Wardenclyffe - Tesla's true intention

Hi all,

One piece of info that might bring more questions than answers. I read an article written by Tesla (if I remember well) for The Electrical Experimenter that the tower at Wardenclyffe was up for 11 years. Tesla true intention, as the title of the thread seams to imply, gets even more of a mystery. Tesla wrote many articles for that magazine covering his researches.

I will try to find the article in question and post the section where it is mentioned. Some but not all the magazines that I have are available at: Internet Archive Search: The electrical experimenter
a few more were available from Google for $5.00 each a few years back but it seems that they are no longer offered.

Michel

[Farmhand]

Ernst, I can't see any of the photo's in this post. I would love to see them.

http://www.energeticforum.com/204788-post43.html

Michel, Now I see, yes I did maybe kind of misunderstand the title of the thread. I do apologize.
I also believe he had other things in mind as well. For sure, his mind would not
have went idle.

Cheers

P.S. Back to the atmospheric transmissions. This clip below is an experiment I
did which I "think" shows a "similar" effect. The groove on the jiffy box lid holds
the ionized gasses and creates a "guide" or conductive path would be a better term.
Both transformers are powered in this experiment and they are wired to
produce opposing potentials. But I do think it would still work with only one
coil powered and at distances relative to the voltage used, if the terminals
were placed in the ionosphere the path is already there, the energy would
flow directly to the receiver terminal, some would be lost to radiation just as
in a wire. Notice the lengthwise colors in the energy streams. Once the initial
path is created it is made more conductive than the surrounding ionosphere I
think and would remain that way when current is flowing by conduction along
the path.

HV Experiment-1.wmv - YouTube

..

[Ernst]

@Farmhand,
Your MOT power supply is very similar to mine, but I have added a voltage doubler just like they use in a microwave oven. Say 1 MOT gives 2000 Volt, that would be about 2800 Volt peak to peak. Doubled makes 5600 Volt and because I have 2 MOTs I end up with 11200 Volt. Then I put 5 10nF2KV caps in series, parallel to each diode of the doubler and a 100 Ohm resistor where you have the coils between the 2 spark gaps.
Works well, but the MOT's get very hot. probably because I do not (yet) have the cap (9 uF) in series with the primary.
Oh, I also have the MOT's parallel instead of in series, in such way that their secondaries are 180 degrees out of phase.
More people seem to have problems with those images. I do not know why.
But I can email you the lot if you pm your address.
That ionised-path experiment is also interesting. I would never have thought of that.

@Michelinho,
Your post is not immediately clear to me as well. It is all becoming a mystery....
I'd be interested to see the article, though! And if there is a place where I could download earlier 'the electrical experimenter'-magazines, say from 1900-1910, I would also be very interested.
From my information... The tower was being build from 1901-1903, but it was not completed, and so not fully operational. From 1902 to 1907 Tesla was working at that location. And in 1917 the tower was demolished. In a biography of Tesla I have read that he spend only a few days experimenting in the (unfinished) tower, then he left everything behind and never returned to that place.
But... I wasn't there (unfortunately!!!) if you have different information, please do share it!

Ernst.

[Farmhand]

My power supply is not yet fully proven, I do intend to go to "anti parallel" as well.
But to explain my intention with the cap. It's a Tesla tip from the CSN.
The 9 uF cap is just big enough to get just close enough to resonance with
the two MOT primaries in series so that enough voltage is produced to fire
two 1 mm gaps. With less than 9 uf they won't fire properly. If the MOT
primaries are put in parallel the resonance is not needed and would require
more capacitance to get it if I wanted it. That cap in series with the MOT primaries
somewhat reduces the current possible I think, especially in a short circuit
situation (arc trailing). The input with the spark gap firing depends on
the frequency of the spark discharges, I think the gap can fire and the MOT
primary capacitor can be discharged then recharged several times in each half cycle.
I'll need to make some modifications before I can actually measure the input
power without using a battery, it's only really important to me to determine
the efficiency.

MOT's aren't designed for high duty work so I think we need to use less than
the full power rating to keep them cool with long periods of use. I was
surprised to get the arcs I did with the small gaps and low HV. I think my coils
have a high enough Q factor to work ok with spark gaps. Does your setup
interfere with the TV reception or other electrical goods with no arcs from the
terminal, just the spark gap ? I can hardly wait to do some interesting HV
experiments, I hope to get up to 300 kv out of it with no arcs, getting very
high voltage efficiently with no unwanted leaks will be a task.

Cheers

Oh, do you have two spark gaps ? I think with the two spark gaps the way I
have them each primary cap is discharged separately back to itself through
the center tap, I need to test it, but the tuning coil there does seem to have
effect, I also have one on the bottom of the secondary, I need to tap them
with better clamps/connectors. I have room for another 40 nF of HV primary
caps. I'll measure some coil specs tonight, but I can only make simple
measurements for now. I would like to try to test some things with the function
generator while I have it on the bench though.

My coil specs.
Total (secondary-extra)
inductance- 2.26 mH
resistance- 2.2 Ohms
height- 260 mm
turns- 163

Secondary
inductance- 0.848 mH
resistance- 1.1 Ohms
diameter- 375 mm
height- 103 mm
turns- 41 + top ring

Extra coil
inductance- 1.157 mH
resistance- 1.1 Ohms
diameter- 118 mm
height- 172 mm
turns- 122 + lead to terminal

Primary coil
inductance- 6 uH
resistance- 0.08 ohms (difficult to measure with my equipment)
Diameter 375 mm
Height- two turns of 6 mm copper tube 5 mm apart.

Terminal- 210 mm diameter toroid with 50 mm tube diameter. Not sure if the capacity. Yet to be determined

Secondary is 5 mm above the top of the primary and the ground plane is about
20 mm below the primary under the wood.
Quite a few modifications to do mainly below deck.

This calculator below tells me a Q factor of 12415 for the total sec-extra together.
and 358 for the primary with the figures I have measured above, I think I used it correctly.
Tools - Circuit Sage

Safety tip,, I found out that with a series cap on the MOT primaries if the lead
is unplugged then the AC plug terminals shorted the short circuit current through the
MOT primaries can fire the gap and generate very high voltage at the terminal in a short burst. I should short the cap directly or stand back.
..

[Ernst]

Just now that I have found my duo MOT power supply schematics, I noticed that you added the coil parameters. I will have a look at that later. Here's how I have connected the MOTs.
As I said before I need to reduce the max. current a bit, and I am thinking of putting a cap in series with the primaries.

I am not sure if my set up interferes with TV reception. 1st of all we have satellite tv because I am living outside of the civilised world, second the sound of the spark gaps firing is so loud that that alone makes it impossible to watch TV.

Just like you, I have 2 spark gaps. One is part of the HF filter, and shown in the attached schematics, the other one is part of the primary circuit and is not shown here.

More later...
Ernst.