Wardenclyffe - Tesla's true intention

[Farmhand]

Garret what you have basically said there, is not much different to what I said in
this thread here. http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...nsmission.html

It is a fact that Tesla stated that a high rate of transformation alone would
be the best way for the transmission of industrial amounts of power.

Transformation ratio alone means there is no need for a magnifying
transmitter to be able effect the telluric transmissions.

The basic principal is being covered in a whole bunch of unnecessary
complicated confusion.

Oh and a counter wound receiver is not necessary unless using the atmospheric
upper terminal conduction method, or the one wire method Which none of us
are talking about anyway I don't think, We are talking of the ground
transmission apparatus. The receiver can be wound either way if it is at some
distance from the transmitter. One transformer is shown in the last wireless
transmitter patent because they can all be the same or different and only the
transmitter is needed to actually throw the planet into resonance.

To me the basic method is obvious and there is record of my trying to explain
it as simple on this forum. Finding the posts could be difficult as they are
swamped with others' talk of free energy and elaborate theories.

The basic method is to create a high potential so that currents can be made
to pass into the Earth and throw the planet into resonance or to effect a
ground disturbance, the receiver uses the ground disturbance to magnify the
power in the receiver so as to allow the output coil ( which is in an inductive relationship)
with the oscillating circuit can produce an output of usable power from two wires.

The basic principal is shown in a setup using only a wire and ground plane as
the connection between the transmitter receiver.

I have shown by experiment how the voltage and current in just the primary is
magnified which in turn magnifies the secondary voltage and currents.

The one thing I will say is that without resonance these types of
transmissions are not so effective.



Cheers

[Ernst]

@ garrettm4 and Farmhand,

Your explanation is, I think, correct. But it leaves us with one question:
If Tesla intended to build just a system for telluric transmission, why didn't he do so?
In other words, why didn't he build the system as in patent 1.119.732?
That is a system for telluric transmission, but it differs from the Wardenclyffe system in that a 4th coil (the "free system") is employed as you can see and read in the RN and in Tesla's own description of his magnifying transmitter.
We all (in some degree) understand the system described in the above mentioned patent of which you just gave a very clear explanation, but what is the function of this 4th coil?
That question you do not answer.

Ernst.

[madhatter]

what Eric is trying to get anyone who'll listen is beyond the Telluric transmission and reception. It's a heck of jump though, I have studied physics for over 10yrs and have an unfinished thesis in QED. Yes those points can be counter to Erics ideology, I don't think that my background hinders my ability to understand Erics work, I look at it a bit different though. The biggest hindrance is a twofold problem, one SR. special relativity was confusing enough to grasp and accept only later to realize it's not quite correct anyway, my saving grace. and the other more important is solid state QED based instruction. the knowledge of yesteryear is mostly lost, you have to do your own research and study to begin to grasp where Eric is coming from.

The depth of what Eric knows is beyond what most may understand. for example, I've been doing research in high energy plasma, there is a direct connection to that and Erics work. the connection is in the dielectric field and it's behavior and the time invariant function as Eric calls it, or as known in QED as the 'tunneling effect'.

the more research into the texts and books Eric has mentioned the deeper the rabbit hole gets. it goes beyond just capacitance & inductance of coils, it's exciting the dielectric and not inducing a transverse magnetic field and understanding why that is so exciting.

[Ernst]

@ madhatter and anyone else who wants to come to Erics defence;
Relax, Eric is not under attack. In no way, shape or form.

The only point I want to make is that Erics work on some points deviates from Tesla's. I think Eric will admit this simple fact himself. Whether or not Eric is one step ahead or one step behind Tesla, that is completely irrelevant to this topic.
Eric was not involved in the Wardenclyffe project, this was 100% Tesla's work.
So on issues where Eric and Tesla seemed to have reached different conclusions, in this thread we simply MUST follow Tesla otherwise we will never find "Tesla's true intention".
It is as simple as that.
On the Wardenclyffe project there was one captain, and that was Tesla, and to understand him, we will have to follow him.

Ernst.

[TeslaSecrets]

@Ernst

Yes Tesla's Magnifying Transmitter always puzzled me. I was unfamiliar with those drawings you linked and appreciate your linking them. I too do not feel Tesla's Magnifying Transmitter was clearly revealed in any of his patents. He seems to have kept the details of his Magnifying Transmitter, somewhat separate or hidden from the rest. I say this because of his claim:

my "high-potential magnifying transmitter," the most marvelous electrical apparatus of which I have knowledge, enabling the production of effects of unlimited intensities in the earth and its ambient atmosphere.

Clearly the production of "unlimited intensities in the earth and its ambient atmosphere" is something which we cannot achieve today. A generating station no matter how large, does not qualify as an "unlimited" source of energy.

In regards to the fourth coil in those diagrams. I would suggest this 4th coil has something to do with feedback into the system, through the ground. Feedback and resonance are related, but they are not exactly the same thing.

If we have an energetic system, amplifying energy, we have the potential for a feedback situation. If some of the amplified energy is fed back into the amplifier, we can have a runaway situation. For example, if a microphone amplifies your voice, sends it out a speaker, and the speaker is loud and near enough that the microphone can "hear" it. Then the microphone picks up the now amplified, louder sound from the speaker, and amplifies it again. So it comes out even louder from the speaker, and the cycle repeats.

In audio amplifiers, the amplifiers quickly reach saturation and stop amplifying( as madhatter points out ) and go into oscillations, from amplifying to saturated over and over, and we hear this horrible squealing noise. So in audio amplification, this case is avoided.

But I have often wondered, could we design a system, which is designed exactly too feedback, to store power over time? What kind of circuit and amplifier could do this?

If we use air core magnetic transformers for amplifiers, at what point do they saturate? I think an air core magnetic amplifier is not very easy to saturate. If even a small amount of power was somehow being fed back into the amplifier, so as to set up a constructive feedback, we could possible get a runaway "magnifying" situation. We would need a very free and low resistance oscillator to do this, the feedback would have to be timed carefully but this is not impossible.

Could the 4th coil, be a feedback coil of some kind, feeding energy back into the secondary through the ground and thus back into the extra coil free oscillator? Which causes Magnification of the intensity over time due to a positive feedback loop between the secondary/extra coil and the 4th coil?

In this respect, we are not dealing with any kind of free energy, just an exponential growth over time of the original source of energy or a Magnifying Effect.

[Ernst]

Ok, I think now we are going somewhere...
But first....
@ TeslaSecrets,
Concerning the n/2 wavelengths...
The drawings on that page are a bit confusing because they show a system that is connected to the ground and yet have an (voltage) anti node at ground level. Thinking about this logically, that would not be possible. This means that you get maximum voltage movement in your systems ground connection, but in order to get that you would have to charge and discharge the entire earth -> huge charge displacement = huge current. The voltage anti node is a current node, so there is no current in your ground connection.
So this can not be done. When you connect your system to the ground, that connection becomes a voltage node and thus current anti node.
So the question then arises, is Tesla perhaps drawing a current distribution here? If so we are in trouble at the other end, which is an open end, not connected to anything. This is depicted as an anti node, meaning maximum current. But where is this current going?
This leaves us with 2 impossible explanations.
Now, turning to the source of these pictures, the CSN, we get the solution to this problem.
On the next page (198) of Sept 29, we see the actual diagrams of what Tesla was doing here. And we see that the ground end is not connected to the earth but in capacitive coupling. This is conform one of Tesla's descriptions of his MT:

It is, essentially, a freely vibrating secondary circuit of definite length, very high self-induction and small resistance, which has one of its terminals in intimate direct or inductive connection with the ground and the other with an elevated conductor, and upon which the electrical oscillations of a primary or exciting circuit are impressed under conditions of resonance.

In all cases where one end is connected, the circuit length is n/4 wavelengths.

Let's go back to the mystery coil.

It can now be seen that the primary circuit, of any Tesla coil, becomes a load and source for the apparatus. This is why the LC tank LOWERS the resonant condition of the Secondary and Extra. That is, the primary places a resistive burden on the one-wire transmission line due to the storage of energy in the resonant tank.

This is one of the problems that I too have struggled with. When reading the CSN you see that Tesla too has tried many different ways to excite the primary coil. One of the reasons being that the resonance frequency of the secondary is slightly different when the primary is open or closed. I have tried many different set ups and although the effect can be minimized, you can not completely get rid of it.
UNLESS....
there is no primary coil inductively coupled to this secondary.
Just like our mystery coil. It is set in motion by different means and it is completely free to vibrate at its own resonance frequency.
Thus you will get the maximum movement in this coil, especially if its resistance is as low as possible and its inductance as high as possible. Just like Tesla says in the above quoted text.

This seems like a sound explanation to me and if true, that leaves us with the following problems to solve:
- where and how does earth resonance come into play
- what role does the atmosphere play
- how does the MT design relate to the "problem of increasing..." article

If ever we can ascertain at what period the earth's charge, when disturbed, oscillates with respect to an oppositely electrified system or known circuit, we shall know a fact possibly of the greatest importance to the welfare of the human race. I propose to seek for the period by means of an electrical oscillator, or a source of alternating electric currents. One of the terminals of the source would be connected to earth as, for instance, to the city water mains, the other to an insulated body of large surface. It is possible that the outer conducting air strata, or free space, contain an opposite charge and that, together with the earth, they form a condenser of very large capacity. In such case the period of vibration may be very low and an alternating dynamo machine might serve for the purpose of the experiment. I would then transform the current to a potential as high as it would be found possible and connect the ends of the high tension secondary to the ground and to the insulated body....
---//---
... Proper apparatus must first be produced by means of which the problem can be attacked and I have devoted much thought to this subject. I am firmly convinced that it can be done and hope that we shall live to see it done.

The electromagnetic radiations being reduced to an insignificant quantity, and proper conditions of resonance maintained, the circuit acts like an immense pendulum, storing indefinitely the energy of the primary exciting impulses and impressions upon the earth of the primary exciting impulses and impressions upon the earth and its conducting atmosphere uniform harmonic oscillations of intensities which, as actual tests have shown, may be pushed so far as to surpass those attained in the natural displays of static electricity.

Are we at square #2 now?

Ernst.

[Ernst]

Forgot...
The status of the Garage Wardenclyffe:

I have completed the coil as described earlier but it does not yield satisfactory results. Its inductance is about 1829 uH, while I was hoping for 3000 uH or thereabout.
1829 uH can be achieved in a single layer as well, which is then to be prefered.

But I forgot one more thing. This circuit length should be 3/4 wavelength and I was designing it to be 1/4. This gives me a lot of extra wire, so I can easily get a much larger inductance which reduces the size of the topload within a more acceptable range.
I worry a bit, though, about the 3/4 wavelength, because that will give a high voltage point at 1/3 from the ground, somewhere in the middle of a coil.
Also, I will have to rewind the secondary with better insulated wire. I can see sparks sometimes, between the windings at the HV-end, and between the primary and secondary.

Barbosi already noticed that this thread...

...doesn't encourage mindless coils winding

indeed...

Ernst.

[Ernst]

from the deepest realms of the night...

a thought:

If we can compare electricity to a gas, then
- pressure (gas) => voltage (electricity)
- flow (gas) => current (electricity)
- volume (gas) => capacitance (electricity)

But how does temperature fit in here?
From a gas we know that Pressure x Volume / Temperature = constant.
So if we reduce the volume, the pressure rises. But even more so because the internal energy per unit of space (Temperature) rises. Because this raised T, the gas is compelled to give of energy to the surroundings which have remained at the same T. So when we go back to the original volume, the T is lower then it was at first.

For those who do not see the link to Wardenclyffe:
Tesla describes the tower as a pump.
Let's say that we first lower the pressure on the dome by pumping electricity into the Earth. The pressure in the dome drops, the volume stays the same, so the temperature goes down, and the environment is compelled to give of heat to the tower, raising its internal energy. By consequently moving the charge back, the pressure is raised higher than it would normally have been because of the higher internal energy (temperature).
We have collected energy from the ambient medium...

But how does temperature translate in electrical terminology?

Ernst.

[madhatter]

a thought:

If we can compare electricity to a gas, then
- pressure (gas) => voltage (electricity)
- flow (gas) => current (electricity)
- volume (gas) => capacitance (electricity)

But how does temperature fit in here?
From a gas we know that Pressure x Volume / Temperature = constant.
So if we reduce the volume, the pressure rises. But even more so because the internal energy per unit of space (Temperature) rises. Because this raised T, the gas is compelled to give of energy to the surroundings which have remained at the same T. So when we go back to the original volume, the T is lower then it was at first.

For those who do not see the link to Wardenclyffe:
Tesla describes the tower as a pump.
Let's say that we first lower the pressure on the dome by pumping electricity into the Earth. The pressure in the dome drops, the volume stays the same, so the temperature goes down, and the environment is compelled to give of heat to the tower, raising its internal energy. By consequently moving the charge back, the pressure is raised higher than it would normally have been because of the higher internal energy (temperature).
We have collected energy from the ambient medium...

But how does temperature translate in electrical terminology?

Ernst.

The analogies are just that, analogies and in reality are not useful comparisons. You have to go back to the constants and see how they are either derived or measured. some are mathematical constructs with no real physical reality. The use of mechanical adaptations to dimensional nature of the universe is where things go wrong, the mechanical wave is used to derive the nature of the electron.

what is voltage? a coulomb? watt? amp? volt amp? the electron is a phase state not an actual particle or little ball, the early descriptors and use of mechanical analogies has made it very hard to understand the true nature of our universe.

temperature is due to the energy of electrons and the electric field, zero energy is zero temperature or nothing so it would simply not exist in our dimensional universe. Temperature is an emergent effect of energy.

hope that helps,

Oh and not to worry I don't think your attacking Eric, I was simply trying to highlight his reasons.

[barbosi]

a thought:

If we can compare electricity to a gas, then
- pressure (gas) => voltage (electricity)
- flow (gas) => current (electricity)
- volume (gas) => capacitance (electricity)

But how does temperature fit in here?
From a gas we know that Pressure x Volume / Temperature = constant.
So if we reduce the volume, the pressure rises. But even more so because the internal energy per unit of space (Temperature) rises. Because this raised T, the gas is compelled to give of energy to the surroundings which have remained at the same T. So when we go back to the original volume, the T is lower then it was at first.

For those who do not see the link to Wardenclyffe:
Tesla describes the tower as a pump.
Let's say that we first lower the pressure on the dome by pumping electricity into the Earth. The pressure in the dome drops, the volume stays the same, so the temperature goes down, and the environment is compelled to give of heat to the tower, raising its internal energy. By consequently moving the charge back, the pressure is raised higher than it would normally have been because of the higher internal energy (temperature).
We have collected energy from the ambient medium...

capacitor (modern times) vs. condenser (old times)

while one contemplates the functionality of fridge's condenser, the relationship of P, V and T and your association in electricity, it's hard to understand why the term changed to capacitor.
It's like the important thing in a fridge is how much Freon I have in the tank, not the elasticity of the material. And Tesla too compared the qualities of a condenser with those of a spring.


And about mindless winding, there is a difference between some1 who knows where is headed and acts upon his design, vs. "let's try 1000 times different things and statistically we may find a better approach as next test".
Enamel quality with repercussions on sparking, might be rather a design for obsolescence from the manufacturer (examples are here). Or... some hiccup that leads to a better design.


and my thought on this:

But how does temperature translate in electrical terminology?
Ernst.

Temperature in electric terminology is temperature.
When you compress electricity in a conductor, it heats up. When you disconnect the HV cable from CRT's anode and then check FROM DISTANCE the wind radiated from that cable, you feel the coolness. (if you touch it, you'll be the next cold body, so don't do it!!!)
So what's the problem? just an effect that can be measured and the trend shows a compression or decompression.

[gujie2018]

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[TeslaSecrets]

@Ernst

But how does temperature translate in electrical terminology?

This is an excellent question Ernst.

About the node or anti-node at the earthed connection.
If we think of the Earth Ground as an extremely large conducting sphere. Tesla thinks of the Earth as a conductor, it is a sphere. Then we can see the Earth ground can act as much like an open end, as any large terminal capacitance could. We just have a large difference between the size of the terminal on one end, and that on the other. You definitely would need some minimum threshold of power though to effect the Earth, millions of volts. Not necessarily current, more likely voltage.

I believe Tesla did this on a small scale in Quebec, according to his assistant Arthur Mathews, who claimed he could do it with 75 KW. The total distance to the furtherest receiver is about 100 miles.

My first job on arriving at the camp was to put the 75 KW generator together. When I completed the power plant we then built an exact model of a Tesla transformer which he had built at Colorado in 1898. I don't remember the exact date but I believe this was in 1898. This transformer was to transmit power through the earth without using any wires. After the transmitting transformer had been built, we then built three other transformers to receive the power, which would be sent from this big transformer. The first one was located about ten miles away in the bush, the second transformer was located at Lake Saint John near Desbiens and the third transformer was built later on at Tadoussac which was on the river Saint Lawrence.

For the purpose of making any required adjustments Tesla first used the nearby transformer which was about ten miles from the transmitter. Power was then sent to this ten mile away transformer and the power sent was considerable and convinced Major Sanford that the idea was practical. After proving to Major Sanford that his wireless power idea was workable, Tesla then turned his attention to some new things.

It is likely this transformer 10 miles from the main transformer, is your 4th coil, and crucial to the operation of the system as a whole, Hence Tesla had to adjust it.

[boguslaw]

We are missing frequency.... I believe that magnetic field is stationary electric waves forming two or four opposite complementary vortexes. Ether under strength. For me this is analogous of higher temperature, because temperature is quite complex thing... Medium under strength

[Ernst]

No, I think this is something much more fundamental...

Long ago he recognized that all perceptible matter comes from a primary substance, of a tenuity beyond conception and filling all space - the Akasa or luminiferous ether - which is acted upon by the life-giving Prana or creative force, calling into existence, in never ending cycles, all things and phenomena.

The primary substance, thrown into infinitesimal whirls of prodigious velocity, becomes gross matter; the force subsiding, the motion ceases and matter disappears, reverting to the primary substance.

What is the cause of gravitation?
It is not mass, as you have been taught at high school.
You'll find it explained (very briefly) here.
Tesla did have some ideas on this too, as he thought it would be possible to build a UFO-type aircraft.

BTW, can someone pass a CRT-cable to gujie2018?

Ernst.

[GSM]

Let's say that we first lower the pressure on the dome by pumping electricity into the Earth. The pressure in the dome drops, the volume stays the same, so the temperature goes down, and the environment is compelled to give of heat to the tower, raising its internal energy. By consequently moving the charge back, the pressure is raised higher than it would normally have been because of the higher internal energy (temperature).
We have collected energy from the ambient medium...

So electricity is energised into being pumped within the Tower - yet electron charge is not (cannot be) conducted through the air as way of a collection flow from the atmospheric environment into the tower, lest spark discharges (lightning) occur !

As TH Moray said - "Remember - It's in the ions, not the electrons!".

Oscillating waves of ionic charge alternation and recombinations in the atmosphere are much slower than dielectric, electro-magnetic or photonic relationships.

So, could the core electrical oscillation be tuned to run at twice the ionic oscillation frequency (or even multiples of frequency) for any given collecting antenna wire or 'hat', and thus the Tower pull alternating DC out of a charged atmosphere at a level below which ionisation might induce electrical discharge, this then capable of being directly transformed into usable AC power output ?

I can't help thinking about the possibility of all the pyramid ruins around our planet possibly having been pollution free, free-energy power-stations for the 'pre-history' civilizations then living here on this Earth.

And would not the size of Tower 'hat' or metal covered pyramid top then be directly related to the usable frequency of energy to be generated ?

Cheers ............. Graham.