Tesla's Free Energy Concept

[Farmhand]

The problem with atmospheric collectors which utilize the difference of
potential between the Earths surface and the atmosphere is that the amount
of energy utilized is dependent on the height of the collector and it's
size/surface area.

Not such a cheap thing to do, suspending balloons or plates in the air is not
as simple as it sounds, they need to be able to take high wind gusts, lightning ect.
and be maintainable, there are all kinds of problems with it in practice.

Tesla's wireless Energy transmission would be very useful for transmitting
Energy from remote solar collector banks ect., imagine several huge solar
panel arrays or heat sinks for thermal electricity production in the remote
desert of Australia, they each could have a huge wireless power transmitter
and in every state could be receivers so that the power can be provided to
the area's that need it when they need it, it could be used for re routing
power on demand. Where the power goes could be tracked.

Then there is the possibility of data over the power system, it is already in
use and works, it should work also with wireless power networks.

With no wires to maintain across a huge desert it would surely be cost saving
for transmitting cheap solar, wind ect. energy.

Cheers

[thx1138]

Terminology

wayne.ct:

Another one is the fact that we now talk freely about electrons and various positive and negative ions when those concepts were not understood in the same way we understand them today.

I've been looking at alternative energy projects for over a year now and ran into a lot of the hokum you mention so I decided to go back to the source on Dr. Tesla's projects. One of my major stumbling blocks was to grasp how little was actually known back then and the language used. Of course they were discovering it as they went along so they had to invent words for things.

I was wondering if you have anything on what the understanding of ions was back then. I'm somewhat familiar with J.J. Thomson's work on the electron. Could you describe, in today's terms, what they understood ions to be?

I did a long, drawn out document on what Dr. Tesla considered radiant energy to be. Here is what Dr. Tesla, in his own words, considered to be the source of 'radiant energy' from Tesla’s Latest Roentgen Ray Investigations, Electrical Review, New York 28 No.17, April 22. 1896): '…streams resembling the cathodic must be emitted by the sun and probably also by other sources of radiant energy, such as an arc light or Bunsen burner.'

Of course his thinking developed over the years and he later realised that all the energy received from stars was also radiant energy and he said this: 'The attractive feature of the cosmic rays is their constancy. They shower down on us throughout the whole 24 hours, and if a plant is developed to use their power it will not require devices for storing energy as would be necessary with devices using wind, tide or sunlight.' So I don't think he is talking about power from the sun in his later years.

If you go outside on a clear night in a rural area where there is not too much light pollution and look up at the Milky Way and the stars in the rest of the sky you will see the source of Dr. Tesla's radiant energy. Then think about the energy it took to transmit that power across light years of space so it could impinge on our atmosphere and create that speck of light you can see with your eyes. And imagine what that sky looked like from 6000 ft altitude in Colrado Springs in 1899.

If you could lend any insight into their concept of ions at the time, I would greatly appreciate it.

[Gav]

just wondering if there is a volt meter program for computers that can be downloaded? they make everything else for comuters these days, are there programs? or will it blow up my computer aswell. i live in the middle of the bush and have to rely on someone else to get the meter for me hopefully ill get 1 tomorrow

[Gav]

i just found some info on how to make energy from antennas/plates. in a way its like what im allready doing now. maybe ill rethink my design a bit my receiver is my metal roof, i may have to look into getting a plate instead, otherwise the roof may become dangerous
heres the link
Nikola Tesla Page, Tesla's power receiver

[velacreations]

The problem with atmospheric collectors which utilize the difference of
potential between the Earths surface and the atmosphere is that the amount
of energy utilized is dependent on the height of the collector and it's
size/surface area.

Not such a cheap thing to do, suspending balloons or plates in the air is not
as simple as it sounds, they need to be able to take high wind gusts, lightning ect.
and be maintainable, there are all kinds of problems with it in practice.

it depends on how much energy you are wanting to collect. I would be fine with 10-50 watts. I already live at 6200 ft elevation, in a dry, windy climate.

So, I figure if I put up an antenna around 20-30 ft up (similar to my wind generator), then I should be able to collect a bit of energy. But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I need to put it up 50 ft or 100 ft. I just don't know. From some of the things I've read, it's 10-100 volts per meter, depending on the conditions.

I assume amps is limited by the surface area, and I haven't seen any sort of figure for that. So, best to start kinda big, maybe 2-3 square meters, see what sort of amperage can be had with that kind of surface area.

The point being, there are a lot of undefined variables, before you even get to the circuit part of the system. We need some rough guidelines to build these sorts of things, just to know what we are up against.

[velacreations]

here are some more links with details on this kind of thing:

Modern Radiant Energy Circuit
How to Build an Efficient Alternative Energy Device

(lots of different layouts here)
Practical Guide to Free-Energy Devices - Chapter 7

[Farmhand]

Yeah altitude might help, I thought of that as well, I'm only at 275 meters but
on a sharpish mountain. This conversation has renewed my interest to try some
new tests. I have tried before but with a sub standard Earth stake, I've got a
good one now. I've got a few more simple electronic tricks I can use now as well.

I think we should remember there is a difference between harnessing the raw potential
difference between Earth and ground and harnessing static or harnessing
cosmic rays. Potentially there are several modes of collecting energy from an
elevated/insulated surface. A good grounding is important.

There are a couple of other threads about this.

Cheers

[velacreations]

what are the best threads/information about this?

For collecting static, I think it is best to take advantage of the electret effect, meaning an insulated antenna (like Tesla proposed).

I'm not sure what height Plauson's balloons were, and how big they were, but I seem to remember that they were not insulated, but made of special materials, including special pins that stood out to increase the ionization around the balloon.

If we could put together some general rules of thumb (like 10-100 volts per meter of antenna height), that might help. It might be like 5mA per square meter of surface area, or something similar. Of course, the higher it is, the more energy, and the bigger it is, the more energy.

I have to admit, I am not very experienced with electronics, but I can make my way through simple circuit diagrams.

It seems like a simple system when it comes to the circuit. Use a spark gap to create a pulse of HV, then fill a capacitor, and then step down with a transformer.

[velacreations]

On this page: Practical Guide to Free-Energy Devices - Chapter 7

They talk about a system, called the TREC (about half way down). The claims are pretty big with that, but so is the system. The interesting thing about that system is that he tunes the transformers for max output. He also claims to be harnessing from the ionosphere, which would greatly increase power available. But, I haven't seen any recreations, so it might be junk, and the cost of the copper alone in that system is pretty substantial.

But, maybe we can learn a bit from that, and tune our systems for max output. I like his method, of making the transformer coils movable, so one only needs to raise or lower coils for tuning.

[thx1138]

Ascanius circuit

velacreations:

here are some more links with details on this kind of thing:

I've done some work with this circuit and got very poor results. That, however, is due to my location - low altitude above sea level and humid conditions. I found the following link where Jes Ascanius posted some info that is helpful but not in the Chapter 7 file. If I had this info earlier I would not have wasted my time on the Ascanius circuit. If you are interested in that circuit be sure to read the entire thread before beginning.

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...llector-3.html

The other problem I see with the atmospheric charges is that they require storage devices. So you spend the money you are paying the utility on acquiring and maintaining batteries, the proper environment for the batteries, and associated equipment with the attendat losses.

I think there is potential with collecting static electricity, like Tesla's radiant energy...

A quote from Dr. Tesla in the Brooklin Eagle July 10, 1932 : 'The attractive feature of the cosmic rays is their constancy. They shower down on us throughout the whole 24 hours, and if a plant is developed to use their power it will not require devices for storing energy as would be necessary with devices using wind, tide or sunlight.'

From Dr. Tesla's quote above I don't think he is talking about static electricity nor energy from the sun. On a clear night take a look at the Milky Way and the energy being 'radiated' by those billions of stars. What you see is only the visible spectrum. Considering that space in not empty but a plasma, how does that energy reach us? I think this is Dr. Tesla's 'wheelwork of nature'.

As to magic, Arthur C. Clark said, 'Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.' So it may not be magic but it would sure appear to be.

[velacreations]

I've done some work with this circuit and got very poor results. That, however, is due to my location - low altitude above sea level and humid conditions. I found the following link where Jes Ascanius posted some info that is helpful but not in the Chapter 7 file. If I had this info earlier I would not have wasted my time on the Ascanius circuit. If you are interested in that circuit be sure to read the entire thread before beginning.

Which circuit are you talking about, and what were your results? Was it solely the Ascanius circuit? Can you describe your replication briefly, and your results? What information was revealed in that thread that made you say you wouldn't have wasted time with it?

I am off-grid already, so I have a big battery bank that I currently charge using solar panels. So, storing the energy from something like this in a battery is not a big deal for me.

I am interested in anything that could help increase the efficiency or generating capacity of my system, and that's why I started looking at these systems in the first place.

From Dr. Tesla's quote above I don't think he is talking about static electricity nor energy from the sun. On a clear night take a look at the Milky Way and the energy being 'radiated' by those billions of stars. What you see is only the visible spectrum. Considering that space in not empty but a plasma, how does that energy reach us? I think this is Dr. Tesla's 'wheelwork of nature'.

He may have believed that at the time, but his "Radiant Energy Collector" is a static electricity collector. The fact that it is a thin conductive plate surrounded by an insulator gives it away. That is a simple electret, which is great at collecting static electricity. The rest of the circuit as well, stepping down the voltage, etc is typical of static collectors.

He may have had other ideas about collecting extraterrestrial radio waves or another form of energy, but his Radiant Energy Patent does not appear to be anything beyond a simple static collector.

[dR-Green]

We are back to the interpreters' circuits already

He may have believed that at the time, but his "Radiant Energy Collector" is a static electricity collector. The fact that it is a thin conductive plate surrounded by an insulator gives it away. That is a simple electret, which is great at collecting static electricity. The rest of the circuit as well, stepping down the voltage, etc is typical of static collectors.

He may have had other ideas about collecting extraterrestrial radio waves or another form of energy, but his Radiant Energy Patent does not appear to be anything beyond a simple static collector.

Please show us where in the patent diagrams is this "stepping down the voltage" taking place. Also, can you explain the bulb in Fig. 4?

[Farmhand]

By insulated I mean insulated the elevated terminal from the ground, the system of radiant energy
collection shown in these patents can do many things. I see mainly the
working or motors or devices not the storing of energy. Any action that raises
the voltage of the elevated plate will work the system. be it cosmic rays
static or whatever, even ground waves would vary the potential at the
ground and therefore raise/lower the potential of the elevated plate. The
patents show ways it can utilize radiated energy waves/particles.

With all the sources of AC noise these days the system may need to be built
to deal with that, eg, if there are ground waves making the ground
connection alternate between negative and positive voltage in relation to the
elevated antenna then the capacitor will be exposed to AC and never gain
charge over time.

The second patent explains that generally it is accepted that the rays are
vibrations of the Ether, but Tesla believes that it is charged particles. The
good thing is it doesn't matter because it will work anyway.

Patent US685957 - NIKOLA TESLA - Google Patents

Patent US685958 - NIKOLA TESLA - Google Patents

Cheers

P.S. If a very large collector plate was used and the capacitor was small and
the incoming waves could charge the cap fully in one half cycle then AC could
work. With no rectifiers I don't see how anything but raw scalar potential or
static or some other method of applying only + positive to the elevated plate
and only + negative to the ground plate could work to accumulate charge in
the capacitor.

I measured 2.5 volts AC last night when i checked with a multimeter between
a 2000 mm by about 400 mm x 5 mm aluminium plate sitting on a bench
1 meter above the concrete and a ground connection. This is AC noise. If the
plate was placed at an elevation so as to apply a constant 50 volts DC to the
plate the AC would mean very little.

..

[dR-Green]

@dR-Green

Have you ever noticed how the flow of information and idea's simply stops the moment a person with an ego enters the thread?. You have been doing some good work here and I would hate to see it dilluted by off topic posting from others.

Here is an good article on atmospheric energy and Plauson goes so far as to state his work is in fact based on the work of Nikola Tesla.
Hermann Plauson | Free Energy Community

As one person noted in another forum Plauson's tower would appear to be almost identical to that of Tesla's. The article also states that ..."By using two balloons in connection with a special condenser battery, the power obtained was 81-1/2 kilowatts in 24 hours. The actual current delivered was 6.8 amperes at 500 volts." Which is interesting considering most of the textbook experts have always been quite adamant that there is no practical amount of energy present in our atmosphere.

Now if we start looking at the bigger picture and the facts relating to it we may see that as Tesla said the Sun plays a major role in all energy sources on this planet. Hydro based energy is in fact indirect solar energy involving the water cycle, hydrocarbon energy is indirect solar energy stored over a very large time frame from organic matter. Solar cells convert infrared radiation (radiant energy ie... energy proceeding from a center... our Sun) indirectly into electrical energy and nantenna technology can convert these infrared wavelengths directly into electrical energy.

These conventional technologies are fairly intuitive or easy to grasp however when a person simply raises a balloon or antenna and then claims to produce power at Kilowatt levels many people tend to lose their grasp on reality. They say it is magic, they say it is improbable if not completely impossible however it is really not much different than a solar cell only the method of conversion has changed. Radiation from our Sun ionizes the atmosphere to a potential of 100v/m and the difference in potential at any elevation relative to ground(Voltage) and the rate of conduction(Current) of this potential represents electrical energy.

To be honest I'm not sure why this relatively simple process is so hard to understand nor why so many educated people who should know better apparently don't.

On a final note concerning the quote you posted by Tesla concerning his "tank at the bottom of a lake". I did the calculations over 15 years ago and yes, if the tank is vented to atmosphere and the water entering is completely transformed into hydrogen and oxygen then the process will become self-sustaining using conventional technology. It was not a thought experiment and is to be taken literally.

Regards
AC

Thank you. The flow of information stopped because these seem to be 3 of the main sources (of reference) for the "free energy" concept, if there are more then anyone who knows it please share it. But I think there is enough information given to prove that Tesla wasn't looking for "zero point energy" and all that kind of stuff, all the things you find when you put "free energy" in youtube search, everything he has said is based on science and engineering. People quote a sentence or two that confirms what they want to believe, but these quotes were said in the context of the rest of it, not to be taken as singular statements for interpreters to make of it what they wish. So the disagreements can be quite useful because they lead to searching for the source, which reveals a lot more than that person had intended when they posted the single sentence quote. It's funny how these quotes dry up too when they inevitably lead to doing some research and coming back with more information

I don't think it's a matter of being hard to understand at all, but a matter of misinterpretation. I question how many people have read all the way through the first 5 posts of this thread. It's easier to get the information from youtube, or someone else explaining it with less words or broken up as a "conversation", and if that person has got it wrong, then it completely covers up the source and spirals out of control, before you know it the whole world is dealing with something different, and Tesla's intentions become a complete mystery.

[dR-Green]

There are plenty of sources of energy that we can tap, if we think creatively about them. I very much like the idea of tapping the temperature differences that are "just about everywhere".

Exactly, if we think creatively about them. It would seem that this is absolutely what Tesla is talking about in The Problem Of Increasing Human Energy. Creativity being the key. Of course thermocouples exist and can already be used on all kinds of devices, by starting the process then the whole thing will develop and we will get better at it, new technologies will need to be invented because we'll need it based on the observations made etc, but it won't go anywhere without some creativity and starting the ball rolling by doing perfectly obvious and even "stupid" sounding things, like putting a thermocouple on your heatsyncs. How ridiculous to the mystic! Searching for free energy, and you use some nonsense called a thermocouple! Blasphemy! But I would suggest that that is exactly the kind of thing that needs to be done as a start, because then it's a foundation to work from. Tesla had to go through different versions and developments and invent things in order to maximise the effects, so so will we, that's the basis of all science and evolution in general.