Mikhail Dmitriyev - Input 1000 W, Output near 3000 W.

[reddb49]

Replicator 1 just said:

"Sorry, I forgot to mention this, but the shafts I'm using are 5/16, and the bearings are 8mm. Thats why some were slipping. Only way to get shafts at 8mm diameter is to order them online. I'm looking into that, although they are working pretty well for being just a hair smaller."

Any of you USA guys know of any decent metric steel rod suppliers?

I've had pretty good luck ordering from these guys, and fast shipping. Don't know if you need hardened shafts or not but they have a wide selection.

McMaster-Carr

[purelyprimitives]

I think you are correct, I think it is in the momentum of the weight as it is flying by the kicker wheel and gets a kick even harder in that direction throwing it further out.

If you think about this logically, the maximum 'tugging' effect by the kicked weight on the main wheel would actually occur at 12:00 when the kicked weight would be totally perpendicular to an imaginary vertical line drawn from the connection point down to the main shaft. And at 3:00 this effect totally disappears because the weight is traveling outward and the wheel is traveling downward. Of course, if you did kick the weight out at 12:00 you would lose the benefit of maximum extension of the weight because you have moved it too soon. It seems Mikhail has chosen a midpoint as a way of compromising/optimizing both effects.

[drak]

If you think about this logically, the maximum 'tugging' effect by the kicked weight on the main wheel would actually occur at 12:00 when the kicked weight would be totally perpendicular to an imaginary vertical line drawn from the connection point down to the main shaft. And at 3:00 this effect totally disappears because the weight is traveling outward and the wheel is traveling downward. Of course, if you did kick the weight out at 12:00 you would lose the benefit of maximum extension of the weight because you have moved it too soon. It seems Mikhail has chosen a midpoint as a way of compromising/optimizing both effects.

Correct. I would think you would want to kick the weight as it is in motion at its fastest swing to add to it. Which is about midway. Of course when the wheel speeds up the weights kind of take an oval path.

[soundiceuk]

Update 12th November

https://www.dropbox.com/s/am74egcnxk...Test%201.mp4?m

Here is a one way bearing test performed by Replicator 1.

Please note he is using two of these bearings per deflecting element.


I spoke with two bearing retailers today.

One of them wanted £13.95 + VAT @ 1.2 % for the IMA German branded one way bearings exactly the same as Mikhail's.

The other company had the same size 18mm OD, 12mm ID, 26mm length from China for £3.84 + VAT @ 1.2%

Thanks for the link reddb49.

[PhysicsProf]

Thanks for the update, Paul.

Nice video demonstration of the one-way bearings, Replicator1, thank you.

Is it possible to demonstrate the ou effect with a small-scale device? IMO that would be helpful, and keep the cost down for replicators.

Best wishes to you both.
Steve

[Gdez]

ideas and thoughts

Hi all,
I've been super busy and trying to really absorb what I have seen form replicator 1's video's. I haven't had a lot of time to put towards this project recently and Two vehicle breakdowns have put a huge dent in my hobby budget. R1 has done alot of the work for me though and between purelyprimitives and R1, I have probably saved a bit of cash. Paul, I am going to start a paypal account saturday to get my donation to you. Thanks for all the info, any time saved helps me. R1's model is awesome and his video's have been fantastic. It's not like talking and chewing bubblegum, so don't get upset about his lack of narration anybody.
I have an interesting idea about the 7o idea. What if there was an inverse ramp on the inner diameter pulling the weights in with no impact. I think that the impact and friction kill the 7:00 idea, because your taking away from the extra power caused by the swing in the 1 to 3 area. Maybe a few strategically placed neo's to pull the metal hanging weight in, with no added friction? this would possibly help the torque factor. Also, The bike tire would definitly be better. Think of how a tennis ball machine or base ball machine works. When a solid object(such as a baseball), hits the tire/launch mechanism, the relatively low speed of the tire/flywheel practically spits out the ball. I think a low pressure in the bike tire actually would help this effect. the nylon rod issue is confusing. I think a solid rod is the way to go, I don't understand why Mikhail used nylon.
Thanks,
Greg

[soundiceuk]

Update 13th November 2012

I definately think it is possible to replicate the effect with a small scale device.

I have been investigating the price of components that exist off the shelf to make the smallest working device.

I am also trying to work out the best materials and manufacturing processes for quality / cost, whilst also reducing the numbers of components.

Infact it would be a perfect kit project for any university, college or school and I have this in mind when I am thinking about a design.


As you know I have been pricing up a full scale replica of Mikhail's device. I place the cost of his materials in the region of £2000 ($3174 USD) - £3000 ($4761 USD ).

I originally thought it would be great to copy it like for like with a different generator just to see what it was really capable of.

It soon dawned on me that this was out of the equation when I got the first quote back for the wheel alone.

I have a few experiments lined up which will hopefully provide a clear view on the best way forward for a small version.


Replicator 1 has designed his deflecting elements so he can increase the weight by adding more steel strips.

There should be a new video soon to show how much adding more weight can increase the effect.

Best regards,

Paul

[soundiceuk]

Hi all,
I've been super busy and trying to really absorb what I have seen form replicator 1's video's. I haven't had a lot of time to put towards this project recently and Two vehicle breakdowns have put a huge dent in my hobby budget. R1 has done alot of the work for me though and between purelyprimitives and R1, I have probably saved a bit of cash. Paul, I am going to start a paypal account saturday to get my donation to you. Thanks for all the info, any time saved helps me. R1's model is awesome and his video's have been fantastic. It's not like talking and chewing bubblegum, so don't get upset about his lack of narration anybody.
I have an interesting idea about the 7o idea. What if there was an inverse ramp on the inner diameter pulling the weights in with no impact. I think that the impact and friction kill the 7:00 idea, because your taking away from the extra power caused by the swing in the 1 to 3 area. Maybe a few strategically placed neo's to pull the metal hanging weight in, with no added friction? this would possibly help the torque factor. Also, The bike tire would definitly be better. Think of how a tennis ball machine or base ball machine works. When a solid object(such as a baseball), hits the tire/launch mechanism, the relatively low speed of the tire/flywheel practically spits out the ball. I think a low pressure in the bike tire actually would help this effect. the nylon rod issue is confusing. I think a solid rod is the way to go, I don't understand why Mikhail used nylon.
Thanks,
Greg

I think that possibly Mikhail used .500" solid nylon for balance / noise reasons.

Replicator 1 has some threaded .500" nylon on order.

I agree the bike tyre should have better grip and even better with a low pressure.

I didn't realise that it how a tennis / baseball launcher works.

I strongly believe the whole thing can run from strategically placed neo magnets.

I just wish that the neodymium industry wasn't so monopolized.

I have also considered the potential of electronic actuators moving the weights into the optimum positions at the correct times.

This would all be controlled by a chip for with start up and shut down programs. 3D mapped off a hall or inductive pickup sensor.

I'm sure there are plenty of solenoids available off the shelf.

Slightly different design though because there are two wheels and the weights swing in the middle and the acutuators fit onto the outside of the wheels.

[soundiceuk]

Paul,

If he has 9 volts DC from the 3 phase alternator then a load resistor of about 10 ohms would give him about 9 watts output (for unity input versus output)

However he should calculate his wheel RPM to get the gearing ratio as he only needs 130 RPM on the alternator for 12 volts output.

Hope I have this right?

Ron

Ron, Replicator 1 believes you are correct. He needs to check his RPM.

For the folks that don't know all the specs for the DC-540 permanent magnet alternator are on Windblue's website.

Permanent Magnet Alternator Wind Blue Low Wind

[soundiceuk]

Hi all
I think it is a very good video and Replicator 1 is doing the right work.

His progress are impressive, and now he will have to diminish the generator breaking under load with a kind of resistor, until he get the right power balance, and see if the power input of his kicking motor can be balanced and / or beaten by the gen output power.
To me the kicking motor seems to be a standard brushed allaround motor, for sure a direct drive brushless should improve a lot .But the basic system is very OK for what he is looking for at the present, i mean to get the feeling of the machine in his hands.

And as per what Mikhail showed to us , we are looking for a 3 to 1 power ratio, so those friction and not top quality product , should anyway be able to approach a 100 % efficiency.

Now for the 7 o'clock lifting, i go on thinking that it could be perhaps an addendum advantage when the wheel works without it (taking advantage of eventual oscillation of the weights at arround this 6 o'clock position to maintain them up ) . But when i see the video of Replicator 1 , trying to hardly lift those weights with a cascade of braking wheels, i have some big doubt of the usefullnes of this system yet.

Remember that IMHO , i think very strongly that if this kind of wheel could work ,it is not due to single overbalanced weight but to a compostion of unbalance and swinging .
OK but this is my thinking, and i can be totally wrong.

I just add that ,this is also my my hands feeling experience , because each time i tried this kind of mecanical or magnetic config (7 o'clok lifting ) on my bench testing machines i got the exact same result as Replicator 1 , i mean as far as i know , desapointing results.
Sorry to report this testimonial

But again, i can be wrong and perhaps some of you could overcome the problem , and as i also think that, there are never problem but only solutions please feel free to test and report.

Anyway Replicator 1 is the more advanced so far on to Mikhail's replication and i am very thankng him for his sharing and i am encouraging him to go on his excellent work.

good luck at all

Laurent

Hi Woopy,

Have you got any suggestions for an input motor instead of the one he is using?

[soundiceuk]

Paul, I am going to start a paypal account saturday to get my donation to you. Thanks for all the info, any time saved helps me.

Look forward to having you onboard.

[purelyprimitives]

I have also considered the potential of electronic actuators moving the weights into the optimum positions at the correct times.

This would all be controlled by a chip for with start up and shut down programs. 3D mapped off a hall or inductive pickup sensor.

I'm sure there are plenty of solenoids available off the shelf.

Slightly different design though because there are two wheels and the weights swing in the middle and the acutuators fit onto the outside of the wheels.

Its funny you mention this because I had thought of the same thing. There are latching solenoids that would seem to fit this idea perfectly. You could have a set of fixed powered contacts located near the main wheel at 1:00 and 7:00. As the individual solenoids pass over the fixed contacts the solenoid fires and pushes the weights out. Latching solenoids have a magnet that holds the plunger in the extended position without needing power. At 7:00, you re-energize the solenoid and the plunger retracts. This would eliminate the swinging action of the weights though. However, and I know this will be viewed as controversial, but I am starting to believe that the swinging weights aren't really all that important.

[Gdez]

interesting

I have to say, with all the good ideas here, we are kinda getting off topic. This thread was mostly about validating Mikhail's claim's. R1's videos are great, but he is working with different weights then Mikhail. This has been a problem for me with many other projects. I have to use basic formula's and intuition to figure alot of this out. I do feel that this device has to have a 6' dia. weel to make useful power, but should also be scalable. It seems that small mechanical devices cost almost as much as a larger one when it comes to bearings,so why not build bigger ?. From what I have seen in the recent video's from rep1, I think more weight on the "hanging/deflection weights " is needed. Maybe a heavier flywheel for the kick wheel" also. I think the rpms are very important, and if we could figure out the optimum rpm to torque and speed , then it will make sense to everybody. Good luck Rep1, you have definitely put time in on this. I'll be trying to figur4 this
out too.
Greg

[purelyprimitives]

Hi Greg,
Yes, you are right about getting off track. I think we won't see an exact replication until Paul is able to put the money together to make one patterned after Mikhail's specs. I just hope Mikhail doesn't surprise us with a different (smaller and more efficient) design after work has already begun on the existing replication.

Also, your comment about optimizing speed vs weight is a very important one as we've seen from R1's videos. I think that heavier weights will allow the wheel to turn faster without suffering from weight over-rotation. However, I think Mikhail is aware of this limitation and this issue will be resolved with the next version.

Best regards,
Charlie

[soundiceuk]

Its funny you mention this because I had thought of the same thing. There are latching solenoids that would seem to fit this idea perfectly. You could have a set of fixed powered contacts located near the main wheel at 1:00 and 7:00. As the individual solenoids pass over the fixed contacts the solenoid fires and pushes the weights out. Latching solenoids have a magnet that holds the plunger in the extended position without needing power. At 7:00, you re-energize the solenoid and the plunger retracts. This would eliminate the swinging action of the weights though. However, and I know this will be viewed as controversial, but I am starting to believe that the swinging weights aren't really all that important.

In Mikhail's own words he worked with one person but it was not effective enough.

This is the reason he disappeared for over a year.

Although a little off topic I enjoy the brainstorming of ideas.

Mikhail knows his deflecting system is not the best it can be. He wants someone to better his ideas.

I am very interested in how you came to idea of your last statement. I am wondering this too.