Mikhail Dmitriyev - Input 1000 W, Output near 3000 W.

[purelyprimitives]

Welcome to the club! lol

Thanks! In a strange way it may have been the best thing to happen. When I wasn't getting anywhere, I decided to try a completely different approach. I revisited what I was trying to accomplish in the first place which is to move the weights out as soon after 12:00 as possible and thought that maybe 'rotating' the weights in NOT the way to go. The build I'm working on now will linearly extend the weights out instead of rotate them. We'll see how that goes......

On the remote control of several motors you don't need to go to an Arduino, stay with IR remote control, for example:

4 channel IR remote control Relay Board - AZ4CR-03
US$16.95

Iknowvations Shoppee, USB|RS232|Remote|Relay|DAQ|Boards|Robotics|Home Automation

Ron

Very nice! And inexpensive as well! However, I wonder how easy it would be to hit an IR sensor on a rotating device.....


Charlie

[i_ron]

IR sensor

Very nice! And inexpensive as well! However, I wonder how easy it would be to hit an IR sensor on a rotating device.....

Charlie

Ideally one would have the sensor on the end of the rotating shaft. This might mean drilling a hole down the shaft and have the wires pop up on the inside of the bearing...

Wireless is the option I was avoiding, lol, no wifi in this house... and no microwave oven!

Ron

[soundiceuk]

@Paul, Ken

You guys are right of course. However, one of my main goals has always been to create something that was simple enough for anyone to build. I'm thinking of course of folks who don't have easy access to electronics like we do. Even Mikhail's design is mainly mechanical with the exception of the motor/generator.

I've recently done several tests on a couple of ideas that didn't work out as expected. I'm rebuilding right now and discovered that the motor gear has been slipping all this time and apparently the reason why my other ideas failed!!!! Aarrggghhhh.....

1:3 Scale Replica Mikhail's Gravity Wheel

I agree with having a version that uses mechanical only apart from the generator.

My current thoughts are based around the method described by I believe Gdez.

Polyurethane guide rollers and a channel for the wheels to follow.

Brauer

Each weight has a guide roller and follows a channel in the necessary places.

This is another method I will be testing out using the 1:3 scale replica just changing the magnets in the design I have shown for guide rollers.

My aim is to prove whether the weights can be guided along the path for maximum torque and speed using no input power other than a small push.

If my theory is correct then gravity, one way bearings and centrifugal force will do the rest.

The channel could be rolled from steel or aluminium sheet.

I'm guessing that the roller guides will work out cheaper than the magnets.

It would be nice to make the channel from clear acryllic so the guide wheels / weights motion action can be seen.


It is a shame to hear about the slipping motor gear. It is a b1tch when it turns out the experiments where not a fair test because of an unknown hiccup. Guess your backtracking now over what you thought would be the outcome.



Non Deflecting Element Prototype 2

If you were looking for a way of driving two shafts 1:4 ratio. What would you use?

I am swamped with belts, pulleys, sprockets etc....

I just want to make two small wheels be in perfect sync 1:4

I am considering a belt rather than a chain because if it doesn't stop accelerating, at least I can cut the belt with something sharp.

Any thoughts, ideas welcome.

Cheers,

Paul

[soundiceuk]

Ideally one would have the sensor on the end of the rotating shaft. This might mean drilling a hole down the shaft and have the wires pop up on the inside of the bearing...

Wireless is the option I was avoiding, lol, no wifi in this house... and no microwave oven!

Ron

I'm just trying to imagine the wiring in my head.

How does it go down a hole without contact from the rotating shaft?


We are also microwave free! We also have no TV and use fluoride free toothpaste.

How dangerous is the wi-fi? They are going to be trying to install smart meters soon in UK.

The jokers who messed up the 2012 Olympic security G4S have won the contract to install smart meters in UK homes between 2013 and 2020.


Cheers,

Paul

[soundiceuk]

I believe this picture shows roughly the optimum positions for maximum torque and speed.



Try to imagine the red/blue parts as guide roller wheels and a track to roll along.

The question is will the friction be too detrimental to the effect?

[purelyprimitives]

Hi Paul,

If I'm interpreting your drawing correctly based on the angle of the arms, you would need an internal track that would run from around 11:00 to just before 3:00 and then an external track from 3:30 to around 7:00. Is that correct? Or does some of the rotation reflect centrifigal force moving the weights out?

Charlie

[purelyprimitives]

Observations so far......

There seems to be 3 variables with this design. The mass of the weights, the length of the weight arms and the rotational speed. There appears to be a critical relationship with respect to the 2 'fixed' variables (weight mass and arm length) to the maximum rotational speed of the whole assembly.

In other words, once you have selected a particular size weight to use and arm length, you are limited in the rotational speed relative to these 2 fixed choices. Expressed as an relative equation: Max Rotational Speed = M (mass) * L (length of the arm). So it you want to increase the speed, you need to have larger weights or longer arms or both.

Conversely, exceeding this relative rule results in over-rotation and rather nasty results.

I've finished my latest build that extends the weight out directly using a crank and roller mechanism. It seems to work pretty well but the timing may need some tweaking. I should have another video up soon........

[i_ron]

wifi dangers

I'm just trying to imagine the wiring in my head.

How does it go down a hole without contact from the rotating shaft?

The sensor is on the end of the shaft and rotates with the shaft, The wires to the circuit board are insulated. This would be the receiver --- the transmitter is merely mounted in a stationary position, pointing at the receiver

We are also microwave free! We also have no TV and use fluoride free toothpaste.

How dangerous is the wi-fi? They are going to be trying to install smart meters soon in UK.

WiFi Radiation as Dangerous as Microwave Weapons, Warns Physicist | Mother Earth Journal

The jokers who messed up the 2012 Olympic security G4S have won the contract to install smart meters in UK homes between 2013 and 2020.


Cheers,

Paul

[soundiceuk]

Hi Paul,

If I'm interpreting your drawing correctly based on the angle of the arms, you would need an internal track that would run from around 11:00 to just before 3:00 and then an external track from 3:30 to around 7:00. Is that correct? Or does some of the rotation reflect centrifigal force moving the weights out?

Charlie

Hi Charlie, in my head it was an internal and external track around the whole wheel that would be fixed to the frame.

The reason for this is because when the wheel reaches a certain RPM the weights did some unpredicatable movements on Replicator 1's vid.

I figure that if the weights are being guided all the way round they still have gravity doing the work, but the RPM can be increased massively without component failure.


Roller coasters use guide rollers to follow a track.

The carriages are taken up to a height by motor and then released.

Gravity does the rest of the work until the coaster is running out of momentum due to friction and wind resistance, then eventually the brakes are applied.


Simple experiment for anyone reading the thread that is interested.

Get a front bicycle wheel and mount it so it is able to spin freely.

Add a small weight to the top of the wheel and observe whether the wheel completes a full rotation on its own. Add more weight and observe the difference.

Now imagine the scenario where a weight that is attached to an arm and one way bearing is released from the same point only to be guided into the best position to keep the weight of wheel on more on the one side.

In my mind the wheel will accelerate. I think this because when the wheel was first released it was stationary. When the weight arrives back at the top it is already in motion, so therefore the speed should increase.

I am a little worried about it cascading until component failure.

Another reason I'm glad I will be experimenting with a 1:3 scale model.

[soundiceuk]

. Is that correct? Or does some of the rotation reflect centrifigal force moving the weights out?

Charlie

I believe that if the weights are running in a track the centrifugal force will still assist but the weights will not deviate from the optimum path at any RPM.

I need to carry out some experiments with the 1:3 scale model.

I should have this built before xmas all being well.

[soundiceuk]

There seems to be 3 variables with this design. The mass of the weights, the length of the weight arms and the rotational speed. There appears to be a critical relationship with respect to the 2 'fixed' variables (weight mass and arm length) to the maximum rotational speed of the whole assembly.

In other words, once you have selected a particular size weight to use and arm length, you are limited in the rotational speed relative to these 2 fixed choices. Expressed as an relative equation: Max Rotational Speed = M (mass) * L (length of the arm). So it you want to increase the speed, you need to have larger weights or longer arms or both.

Conversely, exceeding this relative rule results in over-rotation and rather nasty results.

I've finished my latest build that extends the weight out directly using a crank and roller mechanism. It seems to work pretty well but the timing may need some tweaking. I should have another video up soon........

I would say there are some more variables.

Wheel diameter - center of main shaft to center of element shaft

Mass of wheel - friction on main shaft / wind resistance / drag


Yes it was the over rotation part that lead me to the guide roller / track version.

Very interested to watch your next video.

Cheers,

Paul

[soundiceuk]

The sensor is on the end of the shaft and rotates with the shaft, The wires to the circuit board are insulated. This would be the receiver --- the transmitter is merely mounted in a stationary position, pointing at the receiver

Cheers Ron, that clears things up.

WiFi Radiation as Dangerous as Microwave Weapons, Warns Physicist | Mother Earth Journal

Scary stuff, especially as BT (British Telecom) has Wi-Fi covering nearly the whole of the UK as a bonus feature to their paying customers.

If what the physicist says is true then UK citizens are exposed to a lot of harmful radiation.

This rabbit hole goes pretty darn deep!

[Gdez]

wf radiation

"Full signal" is an excellent documentary about what you guys are talking about.
Check it out at link tv.org. you may be suprised. Makes you wonder about hanging that smart phone by your crotch! lol
Greg

[purelyprimitives]

I don't mean to sidetrack this engrossing discussion on better living through wifi radiation but I've put up another video on my YouTube channel if you'd like to check it out.

Dmitriyev Weight Rotation Test 2 - YouTube

Since that video, I've increased the rotating weight to 7.5 lbs and when time permits I'll increase it again to 10 lbs. or double the weight in the video.

It seems that you can go as heavy as you like on the weights and in fact, it seems to be one of the critical elements that actually makes this work. Especially when you consider that the shafts support the mass of the weights and (in my case anyway) the motor is only required to rotate the weight slightly and centripetal force does the rest.

I've also begun plans to build one with 2 motors...one on either end so there's a continuous overbalance. One thing that intrigue's me about this design is that the arms can be as long as space permits and I can still use the same small prime movers, with the same input requirements to drive it but have tremendous torque gains.

Regards,
Charlie

[purelyprimitives]

I would say there are some more variables.

Wheel diameter - center of main shaft to center of element shaft

Mass of wheel - friction on main shaft / wind resistance / drag


Yes it was the over rotation part that lead me to the guide roller / track version.

Very interested to watch your next video.

Cheers,

Paul

Thanks for correcting me on that .

You will probably notice that the video I put up is not the one I was describing. It worked but had one major flaw which was once it sped up the motor was continually later and later at retracting the weight as it struggled against the rotational force.

Once I had the old slipping issue with the motor corrected I did revisit some of my earlier builds and can now see the superiority of Mikhail's approach.

Charlie