Mikhail Dmitriyev - Input 1000 W, Output near 3000 W.

[drak]

If the effective torque is dependent on the relatively slow rotating speed of the current design, I'd be curious to know if moving the weights in on the ascending side would allow you run this at a slightly higher speed??

I would say yes, but it will definitely increase torque.

[drak]

4. A percentage of the money go to an engineering / CAD / finite element analysis company working under an NDA to refine the design.

I don't quite understand the point of an NDA considering everything needed to replicate is already in the public.

[woopy]

Hi all

Hi Soundiceuk

Thank's very much for the very good quality pictures, very helpfull.

So i made some investigations and i have found some good quality Freewheeling bearing (clutch ) but they are quite expensive.
So before preparing my replication, which will be surely an expensive one in time ,energy and money , i would like to be some more deeply motivated .

So i propose to Mikhail to disconnect the driving chain ,which connect the upper "kicking wheel" down to the blue Motor/generator. (so the blue motor /generator is completely separated from trhe system.
Ofcourse he must maintain the chain connection between this same upper wheel and the main-wheel shaft (probably 1 to 4 speed-up multiplication).

Than he simply slowly spin by hand (hand crankshaft ) the upper "kicking "wheel until he get the main wheel to speed up and the wheights to be shifted out , creating the out of balance effect which accelerates the wheel by itself (be carefull of course not to let it accelerate too much, and perhaps be prepared for some braking systems to compensate the lack of generator drag ).

Such a video , i can assure you, will instantly let me buy all the necessary material to replicate , and share my experiment as usual.

Anyway a very big congratulation to Mikhail for its tremendous work on the wheel-.building and the generous sharing , and i deeply hope that he will agree to make a demo video as per my proposal ,so i think he will surely fix once for ever , his wheel as THE MUST .

Hope not to be too much out of subject here

Good luck at all

Laurent

[purelyprimitives]

So i propose to Mikhail to disconnect the driving chain ,which connect the upper "kicking wheel" down to the blue Motor/generator. (so the blue motor /generator is completely separated from trhe system.
Ofcourse he must maintain the chain connection between this same upper wheel and the main-wheel shaft (probably 1 to 4 speed-up multiplication).

Than he simply slowly spin by hand (hand crankshaft ) the upper "kicking "wheel until he get the main wheel to speed up and the wheights to be shifted out , creating the out of balance effect which accelerates the wheel by itself (be carefull of course not to let it accelerate too much, and perhaps be prepared for some braking systems to compensate the lack of generator drag ).

Such a video , i can assure you, will instantly let me buy all the necessary material to replicate , and share my experiment as usual.

I don't follow how this will show anything other than what's already been shown? Are you asking to see if the rotor will continue under its own power? Wouldn't it make sense that if it did, he would have simply shown us a working over-balanced wheel without the need for a motor-generator? I believe that there is a synergistic relationship between the two elements. Kind of, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

[purelyprimitives]

Add to last reply:

Let's assume that the rotor doesn't continue under its own power. Then what? Does this mean that his design is a failure? Not worth replicating?

[soundiceuk]

Woopy am I right in assuming you want to see this chain removed so that you can see the gravity wheel deflections starting up the main wheel rotation without the aid of the motor.

Then to see how fast the main wheel turns without the generator drag.

Maybe chainmail is necessary for Mikhail!


I would like to see the deflections in slower motion too.


Please send any donations to: mfdmitriev@gmail.com

Send me a copy of the paypal receipt to paultownley@rocketmail.com and I will keep you updated with the latest schematics.

Hopefully donations are very forthcoming and Mikhail may be impressed enough to completely open source everything.

Most of us know this is the way to go to quickly shift the current paradigm.

I am respecting Mikhail's wishes though.


Maybe the NDA was a bit too much, but I do have the contacts to organise a professionally designed and packaged kit that has been subject to finite element analysis testing.

Certification is going to be an interesting area of discussion.

[drak]

Maybe chainmail is necessary for Mikhail!

If the wheel were to spin on its own, the wheel will only spin so fast as per IV. In this design centrifugal force is your enemy.

[5150]

That would be adding more external friction. A spring loaded contraption will still require the same energy to "reset" the spring. Not to mention all of the other mechanical requirements to catch the weights bring them to the top, then dump them out again. With them attached to the wheel it is much more efficient.

yea I get what you're saying and agree to some extent but at the same time making it with springs and other such things isn't that bad if the entire set up is going to be stationary and those springs would not any different energy than the wheel the only difference is that energy would be apart and separate of the wheel thus creating less stress or wear on the actual wheel

I also see keeping it as simple as possible and like I said I am learning and taking it all in

[5150]

If the wheel were to spin on its own, the wheel will only spin so fast as per IV. In this design centrifugal force is your enemy.

yea thats a very good point and something to always keep in mind. the speed of the wheel can only go so fast just like a falling man from a tall building, at some point he will not be able to pick up any more speed but just free fall at the speed he ultimately reaches

the question is though what speed it then the maximum the wheel can or should reach and that would be based on the size of the wheel right?

this thread is fascinating

[woopy]

Hi Purelyprimitives and Paul and all

Just to explain my proposal to separate the motor/generator from the system.

So my understanding of the machine.

-First
lets assume a main wheel with only 2 weights positioned at 180 degrees from the wheel. The weights are hanging under the freewheeling (oneway ) clutch axel
Than we rotate the wheel until one of the weight is at position about 2 o'clock.(the other weight is at 8 0'clock )
Than we manually extend the 2 o.clock weight outside at almost the same position it would have if it would have been propelled by the kicking wheel. The clutch will maintain the weight in that position
By doing so, we get a gravitational imbalance because the opposite weight hangs down without offset.

Than we let the main wheel free to spin.

So if the 2 o'clock weight rotate a full 360 degree and can reach again the 2 o'clock position = BINGO.

But i am almost sure it will be very close but will not do it, due to friction of all art.

So no cop > 1 in this case. and you can increase the number of weights , no chance, even with the best ball bearing. (Mikhail has demonstrated that with his pexiglas wheel which stops after som turns in all config without kicking wheel )
So far per my experienced, the gravity alone is not able to let a wheel spin.Please correct me if i am wrong

BUT

-second

now the genius of Mikhail is the kicking wheel, because by kicking the weights, the weight is violently shot out by describing a certain arc, and is subject to a centrigugal force with greatly increasing momentarely the down force of the weight.
Than (at the end of the arc ), the weight is offset and over balanced and (due to the clutch ), stays in this position as per the previous "static" case
.
So the wheel is accelerated , first by the centrifugal force and than by the gravity (very clever indeed )

We discussed already such a configuration in the P.Lindemann gravity wheel some time ago. But in this case the weight was simply released from a upper position and the centrifugal force was not very strong. And all my testing with this wheel failed.

So the combination of gravity with the centrifugal force, can perhaps provide a cop>1 and provide a continuous rotation with some extra energy to overcome the frictions and even turn the generator.
And i think in this case, multiplying the number of weights, that is multiplying the number of power combinations, is greatly beneficial

So for me it is very interesting to see if the wheel can spin without the motor/generator to see if the above theory is in application.

And if the theory does not apply and the wheel would stop without the motor/generator connected, so i will have to reconsider my understanding, so please forgive me, and i will follow this thread to see if there is perhaps an amplifying effect in "the synergetics whole combination".

Will anyway order 2 of those expensive (10 euros per piece ) Modell helicopter freewheeling bearing to make some test, good or not.

Sorry for the long post, and really sorry if this theory as already been discussed here.

Good luck at all

Laurent

[purelyprimitives]

now the genius of Mikhail is the kicking wheel, because by kicking the weights, the weight is violently shot out by describing a certain arc, and is subject to a centrigugal force with greatly increasing momentarely the down force of the weight.
Than (at the end of the arc ), the weight is offset and over balanced and (due to the clutch ), stays in this position as per the previous "static" case
.
So the wheel is accelerated , first by the centrifugal force and than by the gravity (very clever indeed )

So the combination of gravity with the centrifugal force, can perhaps provide a cop>1 and provide a continuous rotation with some extra energy to overcome the frictions and even turn the generator.
And i think in this case, multiplying the number of weights, that is multiplying the number of power combinations, is greatly beneficial

So for me it is very interesting to see if the wheel can spin without the motor/generator to see if the above theory is in application.

And if the theory does not apply and the wheel would stop without the motor/generator connected, so i will have to reconsider my understanding, so please forgive me, and i will follow this thread to see if there is perhaps an amplifying effect in "the synergetics whole combination".

Hello Laurent,

Thank you for explaining your idea. I think we can all agree that the wheel will NOT continue rotating on its own without some minimal outside power source to propel it. I'm still not understanding how cranking it manually is any different from being driven by the motor. Unless you are suggesting that you start it manually and then after it is up to speed, you stop applying the cranking motion to the wheel to see if it will continue to rotate?

[Regster]

I'd like to see a switch being thrown so that the generator powers the motor as well as a couple of other things so it can be unplugged from the mains.

[woopy]

Hello Laurent,

Thank you for explaining your idea. I think we can all agree that the wheel will NOT continue rotating on its own without some minimal outside power source to propel it. I'm still not understanding how cranking it manually is any different from being driven by the motor. Unless you are suggesting that you start it manually and then after it is up to speed, you stop applying the cranking motion to the wheel to see if it will continue to rotate?

Yes Purelyprimitives

It is exactly what i propose to test. And this aim to check the validity of a theory which can explain precisely why and how such a wheel can reach a cop > 1.

First
deconnection of the motor/generator, but leave the connection of the kicking wheel to the main shaft (in order to get the correct correlation of the speed between the 2 wheels )

second
Slowly speedup the kicking wheel by hand or other mean, until the main wheel get the correct ideal speed.

Third
let the machine running without adding torque at the kicking wheel. And as i sayd be prepared to brake the main wheel if the acceleration's effect is too strong. Because there is no more drag from the generator, and i think that a too high speed can kill the effect and or destroy this beautifull masterpiece..

If the wheel goes on running on itself this will prove that the theory of the combination of the centrifugal and gravity IS a reality and totally usable in real life.
In this case i predict without any doubt an immense succes to Mikhail.and a monster fiesta in my house and very surely in yours too.

And if the wheel slows down until full stop, it is not a problem at all, it simply will show that the above theory is not working or is not complete enough and that i have not understood the machine and how an other "energistic whole amplification" combination is working to provide such a fantastic result as per the video.
In this case i will follow your progress and rethink from the basic of the machine, which is not a problem at all.

I have just ordered today 2 oneway- clutches. so perhaps next week i will attempt the building of a 2 weights (180 degree) small wheel with a kicking system to get some practical feeling.I have notice that when you can touch with your fingers this kind of mechanical machine you understand much faster the essence.

But ofcourse i don't want to force anybody to do this test, but i think it would give a direction how to think this technology. And perhaps Mikhail has already done this test and could communicate the results?

So go on the great work

And good luck at all

Laurent

[citfta]

Automatic speed control

Hi Everyone,

I don't believe the machine will run away or go too fast. As has been already pointed out the higher speed will generate enough centrifigal force to tend to keep the weights extended away from the wheel. When those weights start to stay out on the left side of the wheel the wheel is going to start slowing down because of the lack of enough imbalance to keep the speed up. And then of course as soon as the wheel slows down the weights will then begin to fall back towards the bottom on the left side and will allow the wheel to regain some of its speed.

I agree with woopy. The best way to really see what is going on is to try and get the wheel to run without the motor. By putting a large crank on the main wheel I believe you could get the small wheel going fast enough to reach the speed where it would be self running if that is possible.

Carroll

[soundiceuk]

I have made the suggestion for the new video.

I think Mikhail is a little overwhelmed that there has been a few donations already.

He is not used to this set of circumstances.

If his prototype 12 is to be simpler and more efficient I am very excited at the thought of running a permanent magnet or UFO motor from it.