Mikhail Dmitriyev - Input 1000 W, Output near 3000 W.

[RAMSET]

Nice build going there Paul

Paul
Yes Ron Does Amazing builds!![Just ask Mr.Thane]

Is that your Green machine build Paul? Very nice indeed!

Thx
Chet

[i_ron]

answers

Outstanding work Ron

Clever idea using an aluminium disc with fixed arms. I have lots of questions if you don't mind

Is that your machine shop at home or at work?

Just my humble basement

What is your hourly rate?

I have taken to never charge friends, but mostly it is just wood or electronic projects for family

What diameter are your main shaft and deflecting element shafts?

3/4 of an inch for the main and 1/2 inch for the element shaft

Which bearings did you buy?

Those are the RCB081214 from VBX

Is the hub machined from one block of aluminium? Have you got a close up shot of it?

steel actually, just in the shape of a standard hub. The step you see is from a previous project and the hub is around backwards, with a small infill disc to to locate the disc

What is the diameter of the disc?

407mm

I'm guessing your stand has been used for quite a few projects now?

Yes indeed, as was the disc

Is 758g the weight per round steel bar or for both sides?

one slug, two weigh 3 1/2 pounds, 1500g's

I have been looking at manufacturing an aluminium disc 12mm thick for a 1:2 scale replica.

The one you see is only 4.7mm so 10mm would be ample

After spotting some smaller bearings 8mm OD, 4mm ID, 6mm I think the smallest we could go is a 1:3 scale replica.

The aim of the model would be to at least power itself and possibly a small filament bulb.

If this works we could flood the universities, colleges and schools with kits so the technology is not buried and students can begin to be study it.

Exciting times ahead!

Thanks for posting the pics! glad you like the progress to date

Ron

[i_ron]

Paul
Yes Ron Does Amazing builds!![Just ask Mr.Thane]

Is that your Green machine build Paul? Very nice indeed!

Thx
Chet

My thanks to drak, Charlie, and Chet for the kind words!

Good list, great people, glad to be on board.

As I mentioned to Paul, the disc is recycled and a bit small. So the arms were necessary --- but that was positive as it solved the press fit required for the one way's. Each small part (the arm and the bearing holder) fitted nicely in the lathe and then being split allows me to set the fit required with the twist of a spanner (UK talk, lol)

Ron

[i_ron]

OT

Paul
Yes Ron Does Amazing builds!![Just ask Mr.Thane]

Is that your Green machine build Paul? Very nice indeed!

Thx
Chet

Hi Chet,

I had a reply from Mr T recently...

Hello Ron,

I hope you are doing well?

Your rotor is making the rounds - literally...!

snip

Cheers
Thane

He asked me not to publish the three companies in the 'snip' and then went on with a great long PDF --- so he appears to be doing well. I wished him luck

Ron

[soundiceuk]

Hi Paul,

Wow. I didn't know that you did those drawings! Excellent job!

Regarding your question to Ron about how much he would charge, I don't know but if you have ever seen any of his other devices that he has built and seen his meticulous level of detail and outstanding workmanship, you couldn't find a finer person to make a replication. For those unfamiliar with his work, check out his channel on YouTube under the name rohndoe.

Charlie

rohndoe's channel - YouTube

purelyprimitives channel - YouTube

gdez1000's channel - YouTube

woopyjump's channel - YouTube

There is some real talent amongst us that is certain!

A winning combination!

[soundiceuk]

Paul
Yes Ron Does Amazing builds!![Just ask Mr.Thane]

Is that your Green machine build Paul? Very nice indeed!

Thx
Chet

Who is Mr Thane or do you mean Thane Heins?


Not my green machine. That was Mikhail's attempt at one of the magnetic versions.

The deflector bent from the power of the neo magnets though.

I just thought it was interesting to show the history.

[soundiceuk]

Ron, Replicator 1 is using 8mm ID one way bearings.

What would you consider the maximum weight he could use on 8mm shafts and would using hardened shafts such as:

8mm Shaft 13" Hardened Rod Linear Motion

make much of a difference?

The bearings are located in either side of the 3/4" thick birch plywood.


What would you consider the max of the 1/2" shafts you are using?

Cheers,

Paul

[soundiceuk]

@Paul

I'll take a stab at how a smaller wheel might be done. Torque is basically the product of radius and force. And of course, force is equal to mass x acceleration. So we could look at our formula as simply Torque = Radius x (Mass x RPM or Rad/sec). So to get the same torque with a smaller wheel we have to either increase mass or speed up the wheel or BOTH. We've seen R1's video on what effect going to fast can have so I would guess that he would probably opt for larger weights. However, I also think there might be a indirect positive effect by using larger weights that will also allow you speed up the wheel without any negative effect and actually have more torque with a smaller wheel. But this is purely a guess at this point.

Charlie

I think the cheapest validation would be using a 1:3 scale replica.

This would allow the device to be transported and demonstrated easily.

The wheel from 6mm aluminium measuring 235mm in radius from center to center.

Does anyone think 4mm steel would be ok for the element shafts or at this thickness only 4mm titanium shafts?

Cheers,

Paul

[soundiceuk]

Replicator 1 just said:

"I'm doing ok, just bought the last of the strips to be cut up today, hopefully have them cut up by thursday. I have a four day weekend this weekend so I should get a lot done."

[i_ron]

Ron, Replicator 1 is using 8mm ID one way bearings.

What would you consider the maximum weight he could use on 8mm shafts and would using hardened shafts such as:

8mm Shaft 13" Hardened Rod Linear Motion

make much of a difference?

The bearings are located in either side of the 3/4" thick birch plywood.


What would you consider the max of the 1/2" shafts you are using?

Cheers,

Paul

Paul,

That's a difficult question, not being an engineer. it depends too on the configuration of his bearings. Are they the three section bearings we are using? If so those end sections are a built in bearing to carry radial trust But just the plain one section one-way is not a load carrying bearing.

No load capacity seems to be given for our bearings, and when it is,then it is expressed as "N" which leaves me in the dark. For regular needle bearings the 12 mm one will carry 3 times the radial load that an 8 mm one will. The criteria seems to be load up to the point where it deforms the bearing or shaft. My 1/2 inch bearings are just starting to mark the "turned and ground" shafts at 20 pounds. Mind you this was not balanced, being on one side of the bearing only --- so I would guess my set up would handle 10 pounds (5 lbs balanced each side) OK. so an 8 mm with the hardened shafts and two, three section bearings, would handle 2/3rds of that??? Problem then with the "hardened" shaft is how do you cut it? Depends on how hard hard is, lol

Ron

[Gdez]

heavy weights

After reading some of Purelyprimitive's ideas about weights, and seeing that there are at least several people doing alternate or proof of concept replicas.., I would suggest thinking about this. Say you are only going to try to use eight weights. Your pendulum/ hanging weights, may just need to be heavier and have the kick wheel at a lower/different position.Heavy weights that possibly just roll off the deflector wheel may even work. Maybe a small wheel with extra heavy weights and different angles is the key to a smaller device.Also an extra wheel(not geared) to squeeze and spit the weight out. I know I just badmouthed the computer sim's(phun) but i may have to play with this idea a little bit. Since the budget hasn't been favorable to my gaaf project, I have been thinking more about a catch system for this, to eliminate the cost and hassle of the one way bearings. I think I have a good one figured out. It will be adjustable and I would like to thank paul for posting all the good pic's, it really motivated me to draw it out and get things moving. I would like to know what every body suggests as a simple way to show drawings on this forum. I noticed people are using dropbox and others , not just you tub for vids. I would like to be able to scan quick drawings/pics and easily post them on the forum. Yt vids take a lot of time and bandwith (satellite, aghh!) for me, and I don't have anyone to hold the camera either.
Suggestions welcome and good luck all,
Greg

[soundiceuk]

Paul,

That's a difficult question, not being an engineer. it depends too on the configuration of his bearings. Are they the three section bearings we are using? If so those end sections are a built in bearing to carry radial trust But just the plain one section one-way is not a load carrying bearing.

No load capacity seems to be given for our bearings, and when it is,then it is expressed as "N" which leaves me in the dark. For regular needle bearings the 12 mm one will carry 3 times the radial load that an 8 mm one will. The criteria seems to be load up to the point where it deforms the bearing or shaft. My 1/2 inch bearings are just starting to mark the "turned and ground" shafts at 20 pounds. Mind you this was not balanced, being on one side of the bearing only --- so I would guess my set up would handle 10 pounds (5 lbs balanced each side) OK. so an 8 mm with the hardened shafts and two, three section bearings, would handle 2/3rds of that??? Problem then with the "hardened" shaft is how do you cut it? Depends on how hard hard is, lol

Ron

Cheers Ron

I'm just trying to work out the maximum size weights Replicator 1 could add without changing the bearings.

Also it may be worth mentioning for new replicators that it is a good idea to start out with a main shaft 20mm or 3/4" to start with especially as they are not much more expensive.

This will save you time as your build progresses onto higher weights.

I believe Replicator 1 is going to have to upgrade his 1/2" main shaft and bearings to something beefier.

I think that using 12mm or 1/2" for the element shafts is a good starting point too.

Are your weights machined from 60mm round bar?

I am right in believing you're offering machining services for the project Ron? If so, thank you very much

If I misunderstood, no worries.

Cheers,

Paul

[soundiceuk]

After reading some of Purelyprimitive's ideas about weights, and seeing that there are at least several people doing alternate or proof of concept replicas.., I would suggest thinking about this. Say you are only going to try to use eight weights. Your pendulum/ hanging weights, may just need to be heavier and have the kick wheel at a lower/different position.Heavy weights that possibly just roll off the deflector wheel may even work. Maybe a small wheel with extra heavy weights and different angles is the key to a smaller device.Also an extra wheel(not geared) to squeeze and spit the weight out. I know I just badmouthed the computer sim's(phun) but i may have to play with this idea a little bit. Since the budget hasn't been favorable to my gaaf project, I have been thinking more about a catch system for this, to eliminate the cost and hassle of the one way bearings. I think I have a good one figured out. It will be adjustable and I would like to thank paul for posting all the good pic's, it really motivated me to draw it out and get things moving. I would like to know what every body suggests as a simple way to show drawings on this forum. I noticed people are using dropbox and others , not just you tub for vids. I would like to be able to scan quick drawings/pics and easily post them on the forum. Yt vids take a lot of time and bandwith (satellite, aghh!) for me, and I don't have anyone to hold the camera either.
Suggestions welcome and good luck all,
Greg

Hi, very interesting thoughts, some quite similar to my thinking.

The camera situation could be taken care of with some books. I find I can make a stand out of books / chair that will hold a camera in the right angle for still video recording.

Regarding pictures, I can create a folder for your replication / ideas in my Dropbox. I have nearly 90GB spare. You will be able to access this just like any normal folder on your hard drive.

I can also host pictures too for posts.

Let me know and I will set it up for you.

Have you tried Working Model 2D instead of Phun?

Cheers,

Paul


Update 22nd November 2012

Gravity Wheel Group Project Contributors

soundiceuk (Paul Townley) £100
Regster £20
Drak $15
Kind US friend $85
PhysicsProf (Steven Jones) $15
Swampwalker £25
Gdez $25


TOTAL IN GROUP POT £232 (APPROX $372 USD)


Inventory

11 x 20mm OD x 6mm ID x 20mm Length N42 Diametrically Magnetised Neodymium Magnets

2 x 20mm ID Main Shaft Bearings

1 x 20mm x 300mm Stainless Steel 304 Main Shaft

1 x 20mm x 500mm Bright Steel Main Shaft

1 x 600mm Experimental Non Deflecting Element Test Rig

1 x Diametric Cylinder Magnet Basic Test Rig


Hi guys, another contribution to the group pot thanks to Gdez.

I have been busy in the background with Solidworks. I am self taught so progress is a little slow.

I look forward to showing some pictures soon of the latest designs and also a video of my latest experiments.

Itching to get some parts machined but just want to ensure the design is correct and that the group think it is the right direction to take.

Also before taking the plunge I would like to prove or disprove whether the wheel needs deflections or not.

My mind is telling me that as long as there are 32 heavy elements and more weight on one side the device will still work effectively with much higher RPMs and less balance issues.

Time will tell.

All the best,

Paul

[i_ron]

corrections

Cheers Ron

snip


Are your weights machined from 60mm round bar?

I am right in believing you're offering machining services for the project Ron? If so, thank you very much

If I misunderstood, no worries.

Cheers,

Paul

No... 2 inch (51 mm, lol)

Nope no offer on the table really, as most can appreciate the labor involved on a project of this size. Besides that, anyone at a distance would be stuck with transportation costs which would cripple any such endeavor.

Ron

[soundiceuk]

Thats ok Ron, my idea was to make the biggest posible weights for Replicator 1 who is in your neck of the woods.

He doesn't like the 50 questions he gets from machine shops.

I just thought rather than spend the group money on a new replication. I could pay myself for the weights and if Replicator 1's device is not sucessful return the money back to the contributors.

My money is on it working though, the theory being that the more weight used, the more extra power we will see.

How much does 2" bar cost?

All the best,

Paul